something I call brain-washing.
I got news for you, unless D'Antoni miraculously learns defense, he won't be here.
C'mon man.2006 NBA Finals
In his first trip to the NBA Finals, in which Miami faced off against the Dallas Mavericks, Wade had some especially memorable moments. His performance in games three, four, and five, in which he scored 42, 36, and 43 points, respectively, helped bring the Heat back from a 0–2 deficit to lead the series at 3 games to 2. In Game 3 Wade tied his career playoff high with 42 points and grabbed a career high 13 rebounds. 15 of his 42 points came in the fourth quarter, in which the Heat erased a 13 point deficit over the final 6:29 with a 22–7 run which included a go-ahead jumper by NBA veteran Gary Payton that sealed the win. The Heat went on to win Game 6 behind Wade's 36 points, taking the series 4–2, and Wade was presented with the Finals MVP trophy. He became the fifth youngest player in NBA history to capture NBA Finals MVP honors and recorded the third highest scoring average by a player in his first NBA Finals with 34.7 points per game. His 33.8 PER in the NBA finals was ranked by ESPN's John Hollinger as the greatest Finals performance since the NBA-ABA merger.
and about me asking what can CP3 do that Chauncey or Felton can't considering we have Melo & Stat.
I think you missed the point, that being Stat & Melo are socrers. A True pass first PG is all thats needed (who plays defense) and there are plenty. Why sacrifice the big man thats needed for an expensive PG who does what many other can do plus score when we don't need more scoring?
Exactly my point, this is about Mike D'Antoni, and can't possibly be about objective analysis and savvy. Why?Are you seriously asking this question??
In CP3 we'd have a guy who could easily average 10-12 assists, 3-4 steals, shoot 48-50% from the field and 40% from three point range.. Neither Billups nor Felton or any other point guard in the league can do all of the things I just listed night in and night out, all while bringing rare leadership qualities that cannot be quantified, but have a real, profound effect on a game and the man's teammates.
Amare and Melo would have it EASY. They'd have the great point guard of this generation to lead them, dish to them and take over games at will if need be..
No this my attempt to advocate for us getting the best PG since Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson.
MDA's offense works well w a solid PG like Felton or Billups. The team numbers bare this out. But his offense flies off the damn charts and becomes a serious problem w someone like Paul or Nash at the PG position.
Well first off it's obvious as you say you're a supporter.
2nd, when analyzing our stat's we see 2nd IN OFFENSE, 28th IN DEFENSE! and thats with a combo of Billups and Felton.
Why would an objective thinker see these stats and believe "taking the offense to another level (1)" is the answer?
Answer: Because that subjective thinker is brainwashed into believing this system works, and totally neglects to consider all the facts that make this viewpoint wrong.
*With a 2 time MVP this system failed to address and be successful on defense (and that goes back to PHX)
*With 2 scoring proficient players (even 1 at a time), this system was #2 in offense and was worst in many defensive categories.
*by acquiring another max we can't address what the stats bare out- quality Center, Depth, defensive help
Yes, wanting Paul is one thing. It's your argument that's flawed. It puts your personal preference before analysis, and it concludes in ill faded decisions.Every coach needs certain ingredients Red. MDA is no different. To have MDA as coach and not want for him to have what would make us all the more unstoppable seems counter-intuitive, no?
That said, I want the Knicks to acquire Paul whether MDA is the coach or not.
HE WILL GIVE US THE NUCLEUS WE NEED TO TAKE MIAMI DOWN.
Mike D'Antoni has no support in the front office. The media as well are turning on him. He's not in Kansas anymore, there is no hiding his deficiencies around here.
What Mike needs (and we can all argue that) player wise has been shown to be next to impossible to get, too risky to get, and neglects what the majority feel really is wrong with this team. Part of that being Mike himself, his style, and his decisions.
CP3 address none of those, unless we want to say it steps up the perimeter defense, but many cheaper options do as well, and provide opportunity to gain size and depth.
again, when we brake down your reasoning for wanting CP3 it's clear
*you're a fan
* you support MDA
Therefore you'd rather address your personal desires than do what's best for the team- just like MDA
Tell us besides how good CP3 is, WHY WE NEED HIM? if thats your stance, ok then objectively break it down, analyze, and show us various points as to why the Knicks NEED CP3. We all WANT him, duh he's good and better than what we have
but an objective analysis encompasses multi-facets
Our Current roster, current stats, and historic proof have to be considered. Make an argument as to why CP3 will fix the issues in comparison to adding Size and depth to convince us,
if not you are a fan blowing steam up our asses, hell-bent to field a team that please you but isn't well thought out complete with alternatives.
Your fervor underscores another point. We are dealing with the unknown. Just as you were tired of myself and others repeating Fire D'antoni, it is hypocritical of you to constantly repeat your feelings on Paul every chance, especially void of objective analysis.Yeah, it's taught me that having a deep, defensive oriented team, w one All-Star/ Superstar type player is not enough against Miami to get out of the Eastern Conference.
In looking at our team, I just feel that we need that extra touch of greatness for Amare and Melo to reach their full potential together. It may get better, but I don't think they mesh all that well out on the court together. CP3 would maximize their chemistry creating balance and uncontrollable unpredictability.
Between the three of them I think we'd see a brand of prolificness that would shock the league for a period. All of my basketball instincts tell me that the three of them together would be something different, something special.
Maybe it can't or won't happen for now obvious reasons (new CBA!!!), but I want this for my Knick team. I want us to be as great a team as we can be. Getting CP3 seems to me to be the way to get there.
We have to see how the new CBA shakes out before any of us can say definitively what kind of cap problems getting him will create.
I also believe we'll take a couple of bigs in this years draft to go along with what we have to hold down the middle. I'm not so much worried about who we have at center as how many guys we can throw out there that can rebound and block shots. All we need are rebounders and shot blockers who can finish the odd put back or easy lay-in off a dish/doubleteam to go along w Amare.
The point Red, is that we have Melo and Amare. Judging by what Miami was able to do against the team with the best record in the East this season, I just think we need to go for the jugular and get Paul here, if it's feasible/possible.
Also, Chicago had really good front-line players. They were deep and skilled at the 4 &5. The had Boozer, Asik, Gibson, Noah and my boy Kurt Thomas.
Chicago also lead the league in defense:
Opp PTS/G: 91.3 (2nd of 30)
Def Rtg/ efficiency: 100.3 (1st of 30)
In looking at the above one can deduce that Chicago had one of the deepest, best frontlines in the NBA AND one of best defenses AND the league MVP.. and still lost against Miami.
Hence the creation of this thread born from a deeper understanding of what it will take to get past the Heat.
The Finals will produce more valuable lessons.
Because of the above, I will continue to promulgate the notion that we need as many great players as it is possible to attain, CP3 in particular. And in the case of this team and this coach, a great, HOF PG would certainly not be a bad thing.
This thread is me simply stating my belief that CP3 is the answer going forward if we want to contend in an East Conf that has a dominating team like the Heat.
Also, I don't need to beat around the bush re: my support of MDA. Anybody who reads my posts can easily ascertain where I stand.
This is amplified by the unknown. It takes one line, one sig to say you support CP3. Without knowing if it's even a possibility it screams desperation to constantly repeat this knowing so much can affect this. So stop, we already know who and why you want him.
If we look just at the Bulls:
1. I said I didn't think they were that strong, #1 seed or not. They lack clutch scoring and that permeates in the playoffs, something everyone seems to forget until Apr-Jun.
2. I disagreed that Rose was the league MVP, and he may be one of the best, but IMO he wasn't the best, so people were gassed.
3. While Noah and Boozer are good, they are very limited. One can't score, the other can't play effective defense, although the Bulls as a team can.
That said, we can't say we saw how MIA beat a great team in the Bulls because they lack the components that make a team great in the playoffs.
We on the other hand are in a different boat. We HAVE scorers. We even have a facilitator. We have NO SIZE and DEPTH.
I include Landry Fields with missing depth as well as our Center and bench, because again we already have Scoring options. We NEED players at the 2 and 5 that do everything but score primarily. 50/50 balls, screens, defense, rebounds, box out, etc...
Research those true Centers that do this, and the pattern seems that they are not cheap. EVEN MOZGOV cost $9MIL!!!!! (3per)
You start adding a knock down shooter (unless you feel Fields is that), quality bench players, and the UNKNOWN money wise and bam!
We can't make any valid argument (besides his skills are to our liking) as to why CP3 clamoring needs anymore attention. Its wishful thinking at best. But I've yet to see a non-personal, valid, stat driven argument that supports this cacophony of "we need CP3" posters.
Make a valid, wholistic argument to support your ideas or save us the trouble and put it in a sig, then keep it moving.
The rest just looks emotional. Tell us how CP3 takes us from 28th in defense, last in points per on D, and into the top ten on defense.