Knicks Draft pick options

Marek said:

Tommy Dee of TheKnicksBlog has a source that says Marshon Brooks's workouts have not looked good. Brooks is "brutal defensively."

Not sure I go for that. This is the one and only source of negativity I've heard regarding Marshon Brooks. Not hard to believe, though. Brooks doesn't exactly come from a defensive system that translates well to the NBA.

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Kenneth Faried anyone?

All these guys mentioned here seem like good role players but none with starter potential.

I would take a chance and go for a big guy like Vucevic or Biyombo to pair through free agency with Dalembert in the middle. Thats our biggest weakness right now and we shouldnt waste the pick on someone in the 3 or 4 spots.

Cleveland and Minnesota will probably have a spare point guard after the draft (Sessions or Flynn/Ridnour). These would be solid additions to go with Chauncey for next season and we should have a chance to bring in one of them. That would be much better than bringing in a rookie.

Chauncey and maybe Fields will be trade bait for someone like Paul or Howard come February.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nikola-Vucevic-5828/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bismack-Biyombo-5902/

Marek said:

Tommy Dee of TheKnicksBlog has a source that says Marshon Brooks's workouts have not looked good. Brooks is "brutal defensively."

Not sure I go for that. This is the one and only source of negativity I've heard regarding Marshon Brooks. Not hard to believe, though. Brooks doesn't exactly come from a defensive system that translates well to the NBA.

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I like Tommy Dee and his blog a lot, I think he always does a real nice job, but I respectfully disagree with him on Brooks. I get the feeling he's been down on Brooks right from the beginning, particularly focused on Brooks' perceived lack of defense and how he supposedly doesn't use his athleticism and length to his advantage defensively (which is complete fabrication btw -- more on that in a sec.). Hey, dude has a right to his opinion, I just don't share it. Brooks was a direct product of what that Providence coaching staff asked him to do. They wanted him to score the ball, not distribute. Distribute to who exactly??? That's my thing -- his teammates were not on his level, simple as that. He was a man among boys on that Friar team. The Providence coaching staff knew this and wanted him to take the majority of the team's shots (which he converted at 48.3% btw, an excellent number)..All by design. Brooks has been telling people this in his draft interviews. I believe him because I watched him play closely quite a few times this past year. Asking Brooks to continually give up the ball on that team would've been like asking Amar'e or Melo to continually defer to Jared Jeffries on offense last year. Not saying Brooks is Carmelo Anthony, he's not -- point is that's kinda what the talent gap felt like between Brooks and his teammates. I just don't buy the selfish tag -- if you watched this guy closely, you saw that he handled the ball often (and handled it well) and willingly moved it to the open man. Definitely wasn't the complete ball-hog he's been made out to be.

And I really don't get the comments about how he doesn't use his length and athleticism to his advantage on defense. In addition to the deluxe scoring and rebounding for a guard (7 rebs a game, another real solid number just like his overall shooting %), the guy averaged 1.5 steals and 1.2 blks per. That's outstanding for a 2G. Alec Burks, a SG many still have rated much higher than Brooks, didn't put up those type of numbers across the board. Jamal Crawford, the NBA player Brooks probably resembles most, doesn't put up rebounding and defense #s like that...Not sure what Tommy's talking about but I think those solid numbers ARE DIRECTLY RELATED to his length and athleticism, esp. the shot-blocks. And I think he can even improve upon them at the next level, as he continues to grow and improve and once he finds out that he won't have to been the man for his NBA team offensively all the time...There were many college centers around the country that didn't average 1.2 blocks a game, guys, let's be honest... I think all those numbers -- the scoring on a good shooting %, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks -- all make a case that this guy could have a very well-rounded game at the next level as he continues to improve. And he amassed all this production in probably the toughest conference in the NCAA. Let's not forget that part...We're talking Big East basketball here..

Just going the conservative route with the projection, this guy's AT LEAST Jamal Crawford in the NBA with a very good chance to be even more than that. I think his role gets confused by people when thinking about him on the Knicks..He wouldn't be a guy that comes here to steal thunder away from our big 2---rather, he enhances our big 2. He'd be a guy off the bench to come in and add offensive punch whenever necessary (esp if Fields didn't have it that night) and then a guy who would allow D'Antoni to rest Amar'e or Melo for long stretches (maybe even both at the same time provided we really improve the bench like I want to see) while still having a bonafide offensive threat on the floor. That could go a long, long way in keeping our 2 big guns fresh come playoff time (it wasn't fun watching Amar'e break down in that series against the Celtics)..I think worst case, he'll do what Jamal Crawford does for the Hawks. And that's minimum..I personally think Brooks could be a hell of a lot more than that in the NBA...The evidence is all right there to see..

My only fear now is that he won't be there at 17. Supposedly the Bucks just worked him out and like him a lot (again, not sure what Tommy's hearing):

http://www.journaltimes.com/sports/article_983d0f5e-9644-11e0-9afa-001cc4c03286.html

I don't think it's that much of a stretch that the Bucks could take him 10th. I think he's that good. Cleveland took Jamal Crawford 8th overall in 2000 and this guy's a better player with more potential. I just hope he slips past the Bucks. If he does, we have a good chance at getting him.

There are others I wouldn't be upset about if we took them at 17 (Nikola Vucevic, Kenneth Faried, Klay Thompson) but to me, Brooks is still the best fit for us there. Watch, my luck, he'll be there and we won't take him..LOL...

What about Jeremy Tyler? Could he last to 17?

Many drafts don't have Jeremy Tyler going until the 2nd round...but I have always believed, and still do believe, that you take the best player available.

Strong analysis as always, finestrg.

Like I said, Tommy Dee's is the one bad report I've heard/read about Brooks. All other reports are overwhelmingly positive. Either Tommy really, really likes that one source, or he's being a bit selective in what he reports.

I tend to disagree with a LOT of what Tommy Dee puts out, but it's interesting to see what his sources have to say.

Thanks Marek. Appreciate the kind words my friend..

Yeah, I'm really not sure what Tommy sees in this kid -- not much apparently, from what he's had to say about him the past couple of weeks. I see a guy with a ton of talent. A guy that can impact many different areas of the game, not just scoring..First and foremost, he's a SG with good size and AWESOME length who scores the ball at will..He can score it on anybody.. Nobody out there in this draft can go get his shot better than this kid---just look at what Klay Thompson had to say about him after the Knick workout -- Thompson said, among other things, that Brooks (paraphrasing from what I remember): "...can really make you look stupid out there with his handle. He's very talented. He's got that NY streetball game." That last part about being a NY streetballer is up for interpretation, but I'm almost 99% sure Klay meant it as a compliment..But the thing I love, that most people seem to be overlooking, is that he's more than just a scorer..The proof is in the pudding -- look at the numbers: he also rebounds and racks up many steals & blocks along the way. Plus, he really handles the ball very well...I see a very impactful player. Fast-forward a good 5 years or so from now, it wouldn't surprise me if Brooks went on to become a top-5 player from this draft. Maybe THE best player selected overall. We'll have to see. I know one thing -- he's ready to come in and help out right away next year. Like him or not, Tommy Dee or anyone else can't really argue that aspect..Some of these guys in this draft may not be ready for that...And his self-confidence is through the roof, even at the risk of sounding a bit over-confident, even cold at times...Whatever man -- you get the feeling the big stage, NYC/MSG--the Mecca, wouldn't be something that bothers Brooks and that's what matters most. I feel he'd thrive in this type of pressure-cooker enviornment, yet one more positive..I think he's right up D'Antoni's alley -- Mike likes guys that can score and rookies that don't require a ton of development time...This guy fits the profile.

Alan Hahn via his Twitter and a couple of others are reporting that NY may be engaged in talks with Indiana (among other teams -- who else, I'm not sure) to jump up a few slots in this draft, in this case 17 to 15 (http://twitter.com/#!/Alanhahn -- scroll down a little past the hockey talk). Tells me the Knicks may be concerned that Philly likes the same player we do at 16 (could it be Vucevic? I doubt it's Brooks or Thompson -- Philly's loaded on the wing with guys like Evan Turner, Iggy, Jodie Meeks..Philly may really like Vucevic as an alternative behind Hawes and Brand. Who knows..). We may not wanna lose out by 1 pick the way we did a couple of years ago with Steph Curry---that might be the thought process here... I'd like to shot for a higher pick myself but if this is all we can do, I'm on board. I wonder what Indy's asking price is for that deal...Here's hoping it's nothing more than #17 and cash. Hard to believe we'd have to surrender anything more than that..

finestrg said:

Thanks Marek. Appreciate the kind words my friend..

Yeah, I'm really not sure what Tommy sees in this kid -- not much apparently, from what he's had to say about him the past couple of weeks. I see a guy with a ton of talent. A guy that can impact many different areas of the game, not just scoring..First and foremost, he's a SG with good size and AWESOME length who scores the ball at will..He can score it on anybody.. Nobody out there in this draft can go get his shot better than this kid---just look at what Klay Thompson had to say about him after the Knick workout -- Thompson said, among other things, that Brooks (paraphrasing from what I remember): "...can really make you look stupid out there with his handle. He's very talented. He's got that NY streetball game." That last part about being a NY streetballer is up for interpretation, but I'm almost 99% sure Klay meant it as a compliment..But the thing I love, that most people seem to be overlooking, is that he's more than just a scorer..The proof is in the pudding -- look at the numbers: he also rebounds and racks up many steals & blocks along the way. Plus, he really handles the ball very well...I see a very impactful player. Fast-forward a good 5 years or so from now, it wouldn't surprise me if Brooks went on to become a top-5 player from this draft. Maybe THE best player selected overall. We'll have to see. I know one thing -- he's ready to come in and help out right away next year. Like him or not, Tommy Dee or anyone else can't really argue that aspect..Some of these guys in this draft may not be ready for that...And his self-confidence is through the roof, even at the risk of sounding a bit over-confident, even cold at times...Whatever man -- you get the feeling the big stage, NYC/MSG--the Mecca, wouldn't be something that bothers Brooks and that's what matters most. I feel he'd thrive in this type of pressure-cooker enviornment, yet one more positive..I think he's right up D'Antoni's alley -- Mike likes guys that can score and rookies that don't require a ton of development time...This guy fits the profile.

Alan Hahn via his Twitter and a couple of others are reporting that NY may be engaged in talks with Indiana (among other teams -- who else, I'm not sure) to jump up a few slots in this draft, in this case 17 to 15 (http://twitter.com/#!/Alanhahn -- scroll down a little past the hockey talk). Tells me the Knicks may be concerned that Philly likes the same player we do at 16 (could it be Vucevic? I doubt it's Brooks or Thompson -- Philly's loaded on the wing with guys like Evan Turner, Iggy, Jodie Meeks..Philly may really like Vucevic as an alternative behind Hawes and Brand. Who knows..). We may not wanna lose out by 1 pick the way we did a couple of years ago with Steph Curry---that might be the thought process here... I'd like to shot for a higher pick myself but if this is all we can do, I'm on board. I wonder what Indy's asking price is for that deal...Here's hoping it's nothing more than #17 and cash. Hard to believe we'd have to surrender anything more than that..

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I wouldn't be surprised if Philly was going after Brooks, they are likely to try to trade Iguodala this season if the rumours are true, and I wouldn't be surprised considering he's really nothing special at the moment yet he is their marquee player.

I'll believe Iggy for Kaman before I believe Iggy for Monta.
So I wouldn't be surprised if the 76ers are targeting one of the Knicks' favorite guards in the draft. For them to be willing to jump up 2 spots, they must have some kind of specific intel on that.

Also, it won't happen until draft night, when Indy is on the board and NY's target is still available. If that target is gone, the deal would be moot.

I just hope it really is #17 + cash...There's no way we'd give up TD or Fields to move up 2 measly spots.

I just read that Walsh compared Klay Thompson to another SG he selected: Reggie Miller. Both could shoot the 3, were considered soft and were 6"7'.

Interesting.

I don't think we'll have to chose between Jimmer and Klay. If anything, only 1 will remian by the time we're on the clock.

I think we want to go BIG. I think we'll consider Singleton as well, b/c he can play defense. I think PG is an option (Jenkins & Shumpert), but this will happen only if we buy a 2nd pick.

The choice remains: Amplify a strength or fortify a weakness? Tough to call.

But... if we can snag a PG who can stretch the floor... keep defense from doubling Amar'e... Then why not, right?

No lock Faried or Singleton will have enough offensive game to be a 2-way player. NO guarantee either will "dominate" the big boys of the association like they man-handled boys in college.

BUT... it is obvious... Jimmer and Klay can and will shoot the 3. If they can only do that, at least they do something well.

There are a few bigs Knicks can get in free agency. PLUS, they wont have to dealw ith the growing pains. NO BIG is stepping in as a rookie and being a dominate presence. Take a guy from the developmental league, from Europe or somewhere, or a free agent or a trade... plug him in the paint.

UNLESS a true big we cannot resist slips to us... then just go with the best shooter (Jimmer or Thompson or Brooks). That along with Fields could be our young version of Hamilton-Prince.

Then grab a late first and take either Shumpert, Jenkins or Reggie Jackson.

How do we do this? Probably will cost us Douglas. But we should be able to replace that loss with a salary dump: Ridnour or Sessions.

NBA Draft 2011: Knicks Moving Up? And Other Draft Notes

Jun 17 4:26p by Chris Celletti
Read More: nba draft, nba draft 2011, 2011 nba draft, nba draft history, basketball draft 2011, nba trade rumors, klay thompson, Dahntay Jones (F - IND), Toney Douglas (G - NYK), Landry Fields (G - NYK), New York Knicks
Rumors have swirled in the past few days that the New York Knicks are talking to the Indiana Pacers about moving up in the first round of Thursday's 2011 NBA Draft. The Knicks, who sit at No. 17, would likely have to part ways with either Toney Douglas or Landry Fields, and would only move up two spots to No. 15, where the Pacers currently sit. You'd hope, if the Knicks made a trade of this sort, that they'd get another Indiana pick (probably a second-rounder), and roster player (Dahntay Jones?). We'll keep an eye on this, but you'd have to wonder who the Knicks have their eye on that they think either the Pacers or Philadelphia 76ers, who pick at No. 16, would take in front of them.
A good possibility is Klay Thompson, the junior guard out of Washington State who is widely regarded as the best shooter in the draft. According to the New York Post, after Thompson's recent workout with the Knicks, Donnie Walsh told Thompson that he reminded him of Reggie Miller. That's certainly high praise coming from Walsh, who drafted Miller to the Pacers in 1987. If the Knicks do draft Thompson, it gives them depth at shooting guard, where he and Landry Fields could battle it out for the starting job. The Knicks still have major needs at center, power forward, point guard, and overall defense from any position, and although they don't have a second-round pick, history has shown that the Knicks will look to add a pick later in the draft. Walsh has done this in two of the past three drafts, simply by just buying an additional choice from a cash-strapped team.
If the Knicks do add another pick, they can look for point guard depth in the second round - maybe UCLA's Malcolm Lee or Villanova's Corey Stokes - or for some size. Florida forward Chandler Parsons had a good workout with the Knicks, and there could be some value there if he falls to the middle of the second round. A mid-second round prospect the Knicks should think about adding if they buy another pick is Oakland center Keith Benson, who stands 6-foot-11.

if this is true, and the knicks were to trade Douglas or Fields, who would you rather see go?

This does seem like a possibility but find it a waste to only go up two spots.

mafra said:

I just read that Walsh compared Klay Thompson to another SG he selected: Reggie Miller. Both could shoot the 3, were considered soft and were 6"7'.

Interesting.

I don't think we'll have to chose between Jimmer and Klay. If anything, only 1 will remian by the time we're on the clock.

I think we want to go BIG. I think we'll consider Singleton as well, b/c he can play defense. I think PG is an option (Jenkins & Shumpert), but this will happen only if we buy a 2nd pick.

The choice remains: Amplify a strength or fortify a weakness? Tough to call.

But... if we can snag a PG who can stretch the floor... keep defense from doubling Amar'e... Then why not, right?

No lock Faried or Singleton will have enough offensive game to be a 2-way player. NO guarantee either will "dominate" the big boys of the association like they man-handled boys in college.

BUT... it is obvious... Jimmer and Klay can and will shoot the 3. If they can only do that, at least they do something well.

There are a few bigs Knicks can get in free agency. PLUS, they wont have to dealw ith the growing pains. NO BIG is stepping in as a rookie and being a dominate presence. Take a guy from the developmental league, from Europe or somewhere, or a free agent or a trade... plug him in the paint.

UNLESS a true big we cannot resist slips to us... then just go with the best shooter (Jimmer or Thompson or Brooks). That along with Fields could be our young version of Hamilton-Prince.

Then grab a late first and take either Shumpert, Jenkins or Reggie Jackson.

How do we do this? Probably will cost us Douglas. But we should be able to replace that loss with a salary dump: Ridnour or Sessions.

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Why do we need a PG who can spread the floor? We already have Billups and Douglas who are both very competent at shooting the 3. If anything we need an SG with some true shooting ability.

When I heard Walsh compare this Klay Thompson guy to Reggie it's like, I really really hope we have his influence all over this draft pick. If we have this guy sharing minutes with Fields at the 2 (Fields could also grab some minutes backing up Melo at the 3), and Billups/TD at the 1, we then have a fair amount of depth and shooting range with our guard rotation (which is exactly what we need).

TD now has a whole summer (or more) working out with veteran PG Billups which should give him some insight and skills in running the offense. We don't need him to be a true playmaker he just has to be confident/competent at controlling the ball which he really lacked in the playoffs.

Let's face it the only big man talent coming out of this draft is raw at best and we know D'antoni hates developing raw bigs. If we are going big it has to be via free agency. Although there aren't a whole lot of options there we shouldn't have too much trouble getting a guy who can block a shot or two, alter a few and get 8 rebounds per game. As long as he can lay up better than Jefferies then we are all good.

serendipity10 said:

if this is true, and the knicks were to trade Douglas or Fields, who would you rather see go?

This does seem like a possibility but find it a waste to only go up two spots.

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Get rid of Douglas.....
I think Fields is the type of a player a Championship team can use as a role player....Plus he is cheaper then TD over the next few years,,,,,

Plus TD's shoulders keep giving him issues....I do not think that will just simply vanish....could be a lingering problem.....

skisloper said:

Get rid of Douglas.....
I think Fields is the type of a player a Championship team can use as a role player....Plus he is cheaper then TD over the next few years,,,,,

Plus TD's shoulders keep giving him issues....I do not think that will just simply vanish....could be a lingering problem.....

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Unless I'm mistaken Fields won't be cheaper than Douglas. Because Fields was a 2nd rounder his contract ends next summer which means we will have to pay him. I truly believe Fields is going to have a breakout season along the lines of 12-14ppg and 7-8rpg. A young talented SG with his kind of IQ is going to fetch a lot with those kind of numbers.

Seriously if we use either of these guys to move up 2 spots it would be really sad. TD is coming into his third season now and mentored under Billups I can only see him progressing into a solid role player this year.

what about adding Vernon Macklin PF from Florida?

6-foot-9, 245 pounds and a 7-foot-3 wingspan

"His right-hand jump hook is automatic," said former teammate Alex Tyus, an opinion seconded by ex-Gator Chandler Parsons.

smokes said:

Why do we need a PG who can spread the floor? We already have Billups and Douglas who are both very competent at shooting the 3. If anything we need an SG with some true shooting ability.

When I heard Walsh compare this Klay Thompson guy to Reggie it's like, I really really hope we have his influence all over this draft pick. If we have this guy sharing minutes with Fields at the 2 (Fields could also grab some minutes backing up Melo at the 3), and Billups/TD at the 1, we then have a fair amount of depth and shooting range with our guard rotation (which is exactly what we need).

TD now has a whole summer (or more) working out with veteran PG Billups which should give him some insight and skills in running the offense. We don't need him to be a true playmaker he just has to be confident/competent at controlling the ball which he really lacked in the playoffs.

Let's face it the only big man talent coming out of this draft is raw at best and we know D'antoni hates developing raw bigs. If we are going big it has to be via free agency. Although there aren't a whole lot of options there we shouldn't have too much trouble getting a guy who can block a shot or two, alter a few and get 8 rebounds per game. As long as he can lay up better than Jefferies then we are all good.

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I meant SG... I was talking about Klay Thompson. Fields is decent, but I wouldn't rely on him moving fwd being my starting SG. I could settle... if things don't work out, but I would look to upgrade SG if there's no legit PF/C to grab with our first round pick.

I would veer off that plan if Jimmer or Kemba somehow feel in our laps... but I doubt that happens.

Jimmer is almost the perfect match for D'atnoni. Sure, Steph Curry is/was better... but like Curry (who some thought was too soft to play defense or create his shot)... Fedrette can create his own offense and can set up others. He would be LETHAL on the pick-&-roll with Amar'e. Jimmer also is pretty strong and athletic.

Can he guard? Play defense? Well, he wont be Rondo... But was Steve Nash an all-nba defensive player?

AS FOR BILLUPS AND OUR PG situation? I think it's fine. I think Douglas is the perfect bench G. Can score. Shoot the 3. And play defense. He was playing hurt all year with a bum shoulder. He'll only improve. And he enjoys defense.

Billups is old but he'll suffice for a year. he'll also understand D'ant's offense this season.

Moving fwd... We can look at Deron, Paul and even Steve Nash next year.

The main reason I would grab a 2nd draft pick this year, and take a gamble on a PG like Jenkins, Jackson, Shumpert, Selby... Is to showcase them in case I need to deal for Paul at the trade deadline.

Shumpert and Douglas would be a nasty backup tandem. Tenacious defense.

So... my ideas for our first round pick is to grab Thompson or Jimmer. But I doubt they'll be there. My next option is Singleton or Faried (based on their defense and rebounding)... There;s also a bunch of C prospects like Tyler and whatnot... Have to do our homework there. If we identify one we like... then cool.

The Power Of NY's Sports Media

I have a feeling that all our guessing is going to be a mute exercise this year the Knicks spent a lot of time reviewing a lot of options. This is a good thing though last time the Knicks had a 1st the player they wanted was taken and then the knicks drafted someone else who seems like a low upside gamble.

This time though with the smoke screen of practicing players in order to set up a d league team, the media focusing on Donnie leaving, and a couple of self promoting draftees (Klay Thompson says anything that comes to his mind). The media was unable to pin our draft choice down. This in turn helps the Knicks because even though I don't think other teams draft players to spite them. You can't deny getting a nod from NY helps a players profile.

Once again look at Klay Thompson all signs point to him not being head and shoulders above Fredette and Brooks offensively, and being beat defensively by Brooks. However, all he did was say Donnie said he reminded him of Reggie Miller and now everyone is talking about him again being the clear second best SG in the upcoming draft.

Wargames said:

I have a feeling that all our guessing is going to be a mute exercise this year the Knicks spent a lot of time reviewing a lot of options. This is a good thing though last time the Knicks had a 1st the player they wanted was taken and then the knicks drafted someone else who seems like a low upside gamble.

This time though with the smoke screen of practicing players in order to set up a d league team, the media focusing on Donnie leaving, and a couple of self promoting draftees (Klay Thompson says anything that comes to his mind). The media was unable to pin our draft choice down. This in turn helps the Knicks because even though I don't think other teams draft players to spite them. You can't deny getting a nod from NY helps a players profile.

Once again look at Klay Thompson all signs point to him not being head and shoulders above Fredette and Brooks offensively, and being beat defensively by Brooks. However, all he did was say Donnie said he reminded him of Reggie Miller and now everyone is talking about him again being the clear second best SG in the upcoming draft.

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I agree it could all be a smoke and daggers thing. But yes REMEMBER the last time we wanted Stephen Curry, talked about Stephen Curry, and ended up with Jordan Hill xD not a moment to remember.

Regardless of comparisons, being a 6'7 sharpshooter with fundamentals at the SG spot he is pretty much a lock for top 15. If we get him we'd be lucky (without trading up).

smokes said:

I agree it could all be a smoke and daggers thing. But yes REMEMBER the last time we wanted Stephen Curry, talked about Stephen Curry, and ended up with Jordan Hill xD not a moment to remember.

Regardless of comparisons, being a 6'7 sharpshooter with fundamentals at the SG spot he is pretty much a lock for top 15. If we get him we'd be lucky (without trading up).

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^^^^
:agreed:

**** yea if we get KT hes gona be great for us. hes just that good, I htink he
will be a better shooter than curry becuase of his height and will be able to shoot over most guards.

Knicks + KT = :beer: