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Thread: D'Antoni On Donnie's Mishandling + Lawrence Frank To Handle Defence?

  1. #16
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Agreed.

    Offense & defense AREN'T mutually exclusive, they're part of a combined strategy where one compliments the other.

    IF D'Antoni would understand that IF his team APPROACHED defense as a priority- and were successful at doing so- it would dictate no need to play offense his way.

    His way is a result of an inability to perform defensively consistently and can be used when the defense isn't there over long stretches, its a desperate, get back into the game approach that should be used sparingly.

    Why thats so hard to understand is beyond me.
    And me, in the given circumstances. Plays like the alley oop in Boston are apart from your point about O&D being mutually exclusive, as a single play in which offence follows a much needed stop. Circumstance.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    And me, in the given circumstances. Plays like the alley oop in Boston are apart from your point about O&D being mutually exclusive, as a single play in which offence follows a much needed stop. Circumstance.
    Yea, situational defense and some half court principles can be taken care of right now by an assistant.

    But that offense has to slow down and become more conventional. We'd still be a "middle of the pack" to poor defensive team if we promote and cultivate extra possessions/shots over the course of the game. Your opponents' field goal % doesn't mean **** if you're not limiting the amount of shots they're taking. 44% of 100 is still more than 44% of 93.

    So the problem is twofold. The Knicks fail in situational defensive possessions, the team philosophy just goes against the fundamental ideas of good defense, and we rotate in the half court like a person with vertigo...so it's really threefold...

    But there's only so much an assistant can do.

  3. #18
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I don't agree with that. I think he's a mathematician. Possibly an autistic one at that. He can't facilitate the human equation in to his offence without having someone at the point, where he himself played. That's a bit of an overstatement, I know.

    When called upon to be creative offensively in the dire 4th, someone please remind me of an instance in which we ran anything of merit, other than the isolations for Melo's game winners?

    And when you think of the clutch plays that got the Knicks W's during the season, how many of them were within 15 feet of the basket? How many of our designed plays - other than P&Rs - were run within that 15 foot arch all season?

    I can quite easily think of a handful of instances in which we royally **** the bed with missed T.Os and bungled plays, none more so than Jefferies' enormous f*** up. But how can you blame him for being the wrong man to receive the ball on that play?
    Thats what most coaches do. Phil Jackson did that with both Kobe and MJ. Last night the game came down to ISO's for Wade and Dirk. If they hit the shots the coach is brilliant, if they miss well...

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    Ha Ha Ha.....I dont know which one is more of a BUM-BUST coach in the NBA
    between Lawrence Frank or the Dantoni-brothers????
    Shut this thread-down.

    Donnie Walsh didnt get an extension for one main reason....
    he did not FIRE Bum Flawed coach Dantoni's small-ball, small-rotation,
    no-defense, and no game strategy coaching.

    A president or GM are not going to get an EXTENSION when their headcoach
    top priority has been to devalue players by decreasing over 30 something Knicks
    players "trade-value" to where the next team want a first round draft pick (also)
    when trading a Knicks first round draft pick player.
    How good can our headcoach be when he devalued every player that cant shoot
    a 3-ball shot???

    P.S. If the Knicks wouldve started the 2010-11 season with a
    bigman roster rotation of.....
    C-Barron/ Mozgov
    PF-Amare/ David Lee
    SF-Chandler/ Gallo
    Donnie Walsh wouldve received an extension to his contract having
    a bum-flawed headcoach Damnphony.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Thats what most coaches do. Phil Jackson did that with both Kobe and MJ. Last night the game came down to ISO's for Wade and Dirk. If they hit the shots the coach is brilliant, if they miss well...
    u still hav'nt learned anything from years of watching NBA Basketball.....
    In the final minutes of a game when u are using an offensive-lineup and
    a defensive-lineup, coach Phil Jackson offensive lineup consist of
    Harper, Kerr, MJ, Pippin, and Kukoc.....Rodman was on the bench waiting
    for the defensive-lineup to come in. Harper, Kobe, ???, Horry, and Shaq,
    while Fisher & Grant were apart of the Defensive-lineup.

    Damnphony 8 year career coaching in the NBA has never had an offensive-
    lineup and defensive-lineup on any of his rosters.
    Jefferies receiving the ball only showed how flawed Damnphony offense
    is....every Knicks-Fan watch for 6 seasons how no NBA team ever put a
    man to defend Jefferies on offense....Jefferies thousand miss layups made
    Charles Smith happy.

  6. #21
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    u still hav'nt learned anything from years of watching NBA Basketball.....
    In the final minutes of a game when u are using an offensive-lineup and
    a defensive-lineup, coach Phil Jackson offensive lineup consist of
    Harper, Kerr, MJ, Pippin, and Kukoc.....Rodman was on the bench waiting
    for the defensive-lineup to come in. Harper, Kobe, ???, Horry, and Shaq,
    while Fisher & Grant were apart of the Defensive-lineup.

    Damnphony 8 year career coaching in the NBA has never had an offensive-
    lineup and defensive-lineup on any of his rosters.
    Jefferies receiving the ball only showed how flawed Damnphony offense
    is....every Knicks-Fan watch for 6 seasons how no NBA team ever put a
    man to defend Jefferies on offense....Jefferies thousand miss layups made
    Charles Smith happy.
    Nothing you said addressed my real point that ISO plays for your best player are common in the NBA and were indeed employed by Phil Jackson and both coaches last night. You are talking about something completely different in addition to making more unsubstantiated claims in your previous post therefore you should not worry about what I have learned and focus on yourself. Changing the subject to suit an agenda and making up facts is how my 4 year old debates SMH...

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Thats what most coaches do. Phil Jackson did that with both Kobe and MJ. Last night the game came down to ISO's for Wade and Dirk. If they hit the shots the coach is brilliant, if they miss well...
    We certainly can't act like that's the be all and end all of a great coaches' clutch repertoire. If we look at the names you've used as an example, then we're talking about an elite few.

    In Phil Jackson's case, I can think of non Jordan as well as Big Shot Bob instances in which designed plays have been critical to playoff and finals victories.

    You are right though. You get the ball in the hands of your best player. Whether or not a made shot decides upon a coaches brilliance depends upon the eye of the beholder.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Yea, situational defense and some half court principles can be taken care of right now by an assistant.

    But that offense has to slow down and become more conventional. We'd still be a "middle of the pack" to poor defensive team if we promote and cultivate extra possessions/shots over the course of the game. Your opponents' field goal % doesn't mean **** if you're not limiting the amount of shots they're taking. 44% of 100 is still more than 44% of 93.

    So the problem is twofold. The Knicks fail in situational defensive possessions, the team philosophy just goes against the fundamental ideas of good defense, and we rotate in the half court like a person with vertigo...so it's really threefold...

    But there's only so much an assistant can do.
    You're absolutely right. I agree and have said precisely the same thing. It's a matter of math be it win or lose. A lack of essence, IMO.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Thats what most coaches do. Phil Jackson did that with both Kobe and MJ. Last night the game came down to ISO's for Wade and Dirk. If they hit the shots the coach is brilliant, if they miss well...
    And by the way, the bolded text in my post that you commented on was a question. It's been an arduous task getting direct answers on this site of late!

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    And by the way, the bolded text in my post that you commented on was a question. It's been an arduous task getting direct answers on this site of late!
    Correct and I answered it. I will not be going back game by game looking to prove MDA a genius nor can I remember anything off hand. I merely pointed out that great coaches such as Phil Jackson are considered a genius when if you look, really just ran an ISO to two of the best players who ever lived. (final shots in 4th)
    Last edited by TR1LL10N; Jun 06, 2011 at 11:57.

  11. #26
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    That's a good point made. I do think a defensive assistant is the LEAST we can do...why the hell is D'Antoni's brother on this team? He was a high school coach and a Suns assistant...surely he could be replaced with the likes of Lawrence Frank?

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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    We certainly can't act like that's the be all and end all of a great coaches' clutch repertoire. If we look at the names you've used as an example, then we're talking about an elite few.

    In Phil Jackson's case, I can think of non Jordan as well as Big Shot Bob instances in which designed plays have been critical to playoff and finals victories.

    You are right though. You get the ball in the hands of your best player. Whether or not a made shot decides upon a coaches brilliance depends upon the eye of the beholder.
    Missed this. Of course other players have made critical game winners under Phil Jackson but I would wager 95% of those were broken plays when MJ/Kobe/Shaq ISO failed. It's like the Chris Bosh shot last night with time winding down, broken ISO from Wade who passes out of the double to Lebron who makes a sweet pass to Bosh for the open jumper in the corner. Looked beautiful but you think Spolestra drew that up? Of course not.

  13. #28
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    Its good news that they'll hire a defensive asst. coach... I also like what D'Antoni had to say

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Missed this. Of course other players have made critical game winners under Phil Jackson but I would wager 95% of those were broken plays when MJ/Kobe/Shaq ISO failed. It's like the Chris Bosh shot last night with time winding down, broken ISO from Wade who passes out of the double to Lebron who makes a sweet pass to Bosh for the open jumper in the corner. Looked beautiful but you think Spolestra drew that up? Of course not.
    I don't know about 95%? But even still, Jackson, with his fortune, is the wrong example. I'm not here to talk about the Bulls or Lakers dynasties and their clutch heroics or players, and certainly not a play run by the Heat. We're getting off point.

    I'm talking about D'Antoni's 4th quarter capability as the NYK's head coach.

    He has been ****, has he not?



    And when you think of the clutch plays that got the Knicks W's during the season, how many of them were within 15 feet of the basket? How many of our designed plays - other than P&Rs - were run within that 10-15 foot arch all season?


    This was the other point I made in your quoting of mine, let's go with that after we talk about D'Antoni's fumbled 4ths.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Correct and I answered it. I will not be going back game by game looking to prove MDA a genius nor can I remember anything off hand. I merely pointed out that great coaches such as Phil Jackson are considered a genius when if you look, really just ran an ISO to two of the best players who ever lived. (final shots in 4th)
    Sorry. I missed this, too.

    You did answer my question, yes. But you answered it by talking about Phil Jackson, Jordan and The Black Mamba.

    We're talking about our plays - lack there of - and how we, not only in the 4th, utilise our roster's abilities, and whether or not the system works.

    You can easily go back and look at highlights on YouTube for a freshener if you can't recall anything off hand.

    This is a good one if you want to talk about our offence.



    It's a little bit long, sorry about that, but there is one particular play that I'd like to focus on toward the start of the clip, which is STAT's hand off to Melo.

    This, as far as I see it, is worth some serious discussion: The Symbiosis Of Our 2 Superstars, and how MD's offence limited their teamwork, after their first 5-6 games together.

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