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Thread: D'Antoni On Donnie's Mishandling + Lawrence Frank To Handle Defence?

  1. #31
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I don't know about 95%? But even still, Jackson, with his fortune, is the wrong example. I'm not here to talk about the Bulls or Lakers dynasties and their clutch heroics or players, and certainly not a play run by the Heat. We're getting off point.

    I'm talking about D'Antoni's 4th quarter capability as the NYK's head coach.

    He has been ****, has he not?



    And when you think of the clutch plays that got the Knicks W's during the season, how many of them were within 15 feet of the basket? How many of our designed plays - other than P&Rs - were run within that 10-15 foot arch all season?


    This was the other point I made in your quoting of mine, let's go with that after we talk about D'Antoni's fumbled 4ths.
    Crazy, to me, what Trill is trying to say is that the great coaches by and large rely on their players to make decisions within whatever framework play-wise they've set up. Much of the success derived from late-game heroics relies on the improvisation of great game closers. The better the closer, the more success the player, team and coach enjoys. The Duncans, Jordans, Kobes and Melos of the world make their coaches job's much easier because they can get their own shot, or one for a teammate.

    That said I think MDA is one of the better (he really his) coaches at drawing up a play late in a game if he needs to. But I think ultimately he'd rather just let the game play out and rely on his players and the system to find a good open look. Much of the time he can get that open shot w/ out calling a time out. The system and philosophy is that good w "his" players - A pass=>first PG, knock down shooters and someone to who can set the pick and is a threat to finish.

    Nobody talks about the times when he's gotten Gallo a look late, or Felton, or Amare w success.. In many of these cases he's relied on the players to do what they do within his schemes. The same is the case for most coaches. But when the players feck it up he gets he blame.

    IMO when there's a late bungle the coach is about 20% culpable in those cases on average, good coaches that is.. The worse the coach the more that percentage goes up. MDA is a good coach.

    Most coaches (the smart ones), when they have great players, get the hell out of the way and let them earn it th0ugh..
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jun 06, 2011 at 21:28.

  2. #32
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Crazy, to me, what Trill is trying to say is that the great coaches by and large rely on their players to make decisions within whatever framework play-wise they've set up. Much of the success derived from late-game heroics relies on the improvisation of great game closers. The better the closer, the more success the player, team and coach enjoys. The Duncans, Jordans, Kobes and Melos of the world make their coaches job's much easier because they can get their own shot, or one for a teammate.
    Ron, dude, I know what he is saying. It's in English. I've replied to him about it: "We certainly can't act like that's the be all and end all of a great coaches' clutch repertoire" Just get it in ~~~'s hands and get out of the way? The bill doesn't stop there.

    That said I think MDA is one of the better (he really his) coaches at drawing up a play late in a game if he needs to.
    You can refer to examples with me. Anything you bring up, there's a good chance I will remember it. A bolster for that comment, if you don't mind sir.

    But I think ultimately he'd rather just let the game play out and rely on his players and the system to find a good open look. Much of the time he can get that open shot w/ out calling a time out.
    Did you watch the Boston series? Sorry, I don't mean to come across as facetious, but our offence in that series (including game 1), and throughout the latter 15 odd games of the season was locked in the doldrums.

    ISO, arc spacing, ISO, uneventful high pick, ISO, ISO, shoot off the dribble, arc spacing - 3 after 3 after 3, long rebound, so often resulting in an opponent [Rondo] transition layup - repeat.

    The system and philosophy is that good w "his" players - A pass=>first PG, knock down shooters and someone to who can set the pick and is a threat to finish.
    My cooking is ****, but with famished dinner guests, my cup overfloweth with culinary praise. Same ****, different bucket. Again, not trying to be facetious.

    However, to say that I've grown weary of the mentioning of absent requirements - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - for a winning philosophy that boasted a 50% failure rate this year, is an understatement. If it aint broke, don't fix it. If it is, buy a new one.

    Nobody talks about the times when he's gotten Gallo a look late, or Felton, or Amare w success.. In many of these cases he's relied on the players to do what they do within his schemes. The same is the case for most coaches. But when the players feck it up he gets the blame.
    There is, as always, a counter point to this: when MD's offence has been inevitably deduced by opposing defences, its stagnancy relies upon shots created by an isolated individual. When the numbers game - or system, whatever you want to call it - fecks up, the blame is transferred to those that are relied upon to counter it as individuals. The human equation of a numerical machination - as I like to call it. This, BTW, is when you see Mike in his most animated tirades.

    IMO when there's a late bungle the coach is about 20% culpable in those cases on average, good coaches that is.. The worse the coach the more that percentage goes up. MDA is a good coach.
    What's with the use of % on the blame-o-meter around here? And why is it always so drastically in the favour of Mike D'Antoni?

    Honestly, if we refer to the same handful of sets we used all season, what do we expect? When have we EVER had an ace up our sleeve in the form of a play outside of the ever iterative? And, as Red exemplified with the double high screen in a loss to Boston, why don't we utilise more intricate/deliberate plays, such as the DHS, that incorporate Amar'e's athletic dominance in the paint? In fact, when Melo was acquired, we ran less V cuts, screens, and so forth, with a multi-faceted scoring machine on our team, than we did with Wilson Chandler, such as shall be displayed for you, in super slow mo below:



    This decrease in fluidity in a motion offence, be it a facet of the SSOL as above, or not, was the death pang of Landry Fields' effectiveness offensively.

    That is 100% the fault of the coach.

    Most coaches (the smart ones), when they have great players, get the hell out of the way and let them earn it th0ugh..
    You're right. They do. Why wouldn't they? But as I mentioned to our resident flag bearer in enemy territory, TR1LL1ON, this is not the be all and end all of successful clutch coaching. If anything, it's this lack of creative thinking that was the bane of our offence after the Melo trade.

  3. #33
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Rono made many of the points I did or would make however I do not agree that MDA is a great end game coach, he is mediocre at best. (given what I have seen so far with a limited roster) That said, Crazy you are ignoring the fact that a roster comprising of so many new players will not be firing on all cylinders and chemistry will yet to be established therefore critiquing our "predictability" in the last bunch of games after a trade is not entirely indicative of our potential. (neither is chastising our play with all those injuries against a veteran Boston team known for defense)

    And yes, Billups injury or lack of play making(style,age or injury) was a huge reason for this. Yes, I am bringing up Billups again and yes I am reiterating the need for a pass first PG in this system. To not do so or claim this is somehow a cop out is to say a system like the Triangle offense doesn't need a Kobe or MJ to be successful at a high level when we all know it does. Every system needs the "right" players and we have 3/4's of the team we need for MDA. Further I submit it will be a lot easier to fill out our roster with SSOL type players than changing our identity and going strictly for defensive bigs, relying on stops and not our offense. I understand the importance of defense but I recognize the lack of quality bigs attainable. I also think that the Suns under MDA were of championship caliber for almost his whole tenure and his system could have brought a title had things gone differently.(suspensions, Spurs dynasty, etc.) After all, only one team wins a year when there are plenty of championship caliber teams! The Suns were a 60+ win team in a much tougher West, year in and year out and we must understand that that goal normally proceeds making it over the mountain to a title. We should all be so lucky to go from the NY Stinks/Bricks of the last decade to a team competing on that level!

    After a decade of different coaches including two hall of fame coaches that lead to similar results some stability is in order. MDA has one year left on his contract and I believe earned the right to give it a go after sacrificing his W/L record and reputation to come here knowing we were in the beginning of a long rebuild and uphill battle. (he would have been paid by other teams including Chicago) Lets build on what we started, acquire some more pieces and then, only then can we truly judge MDA's time in NYC. To do so now when up unitll this year we were cap shedding/rebuilding, had a $14-16 mil hole in our roster with Curry riding the bench and after less than 1/2 a season from a major trade that drastically altered not only our roster but core identity once again would be premature IMHO.

  4. #34
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Ron, dude, I know what he is saying. It's in English. I've replied to him about it: "We certainly can't act like that's the be all and end all of a great coaches' clutch repertoire" Just get it in ~~~'s hands and get out of the way? The bill doesn't stop there.



    You can refer to examples with me. Anything you bring up, there's a good chance I will remember it. A bolster for that comment, if you don't mind sir.



    Did you watch the Boston series? Sorry, I don't mean to come across as facetious, but our offence in that series (including game 1), and throughout the latter 15 odd games of the season was locked in the doldrums.

    ISO, arc spacing, ISO, uneventful high pick, ISO, ISO, shoot off the dribble, arc spacing - 3 after 3 after 3, long rebound, so often resulting in an opponent [Rondo] transition layup - repeat.



    My cooking is ****, but with famished dinner guests, my cup overfloweth with culinary praise. Same ****, different bucket. Again, not trying to be facetious.

    However, to say that I've grown weary of the mentioning of absent requirements - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - for a winning philosophy that boasted a 50% failure rate this year, is an understatement. If it aint broke, don't fix it. If it is, buy a new one.



    There is, as always, a counter point to this: when MD's offence has been inevitably deduced by opposing defences, its stagnancy relies upon shots created by an isolated individual. When the numbers game - or system, whatever you want to call it - fecks up, the blame is transferred to those that are relied upon to counter it as individuals. The human equation of a numerical machination - as I like to call it. This, BTW, is when you see Mike in his most animated tirades.



    What's with the use of % on the blame-o-meter around here? And why is it always so drastically in the favour of Mike D'Antoni?

    Honestly, if we refer to the same handful of sets we used all season, what do we expect? When have we EVER had an ace up our sleeve in the form of a play outside of the ever iterative? And, as Red exemplified with the double high screen in a loss to Boston, why don't we utilise more intricate/deliberate plays, such as the DHS, that incorporate Amar'e's athletic dominance in the paint? In fact, when Melo was acquired, we ran less V cuts, screens, and so forth, with a multi-faceted scoring machine on our team, than we did with Wilson Chandler, such as shall be displayed for you, in super slow mo below:



    This decrease in fluidity in a motion offence, be it a facet of the SSOL as above, or not, was the death pang of Landry Fields' effectiveness offensively.

    That is 100% the fault of the coach.



    You're right. They do. Why wouldn't they? But as I mentioned to our resident flag bearer in enemy territory, TR1LL1ON, this is not the be all and end all of successful clutch coaching. If anything, it's this lack of creative thinking that was the bane of our offence after the Melo trade.
    Okay I see what you mean. MDA is no JVG in the creativeness and attention to detail department. Infact he's not as good as quite a few coaches in the league. But he's not bad.

    I can remember always being confident coming out of a timeout of the preparedness and creativity of JVG at the end of games. I don't have that same level of assuredness w MDA. His in-game-at the end of the game leaves something to be desired. I will admit that. But he's been outfoxed may times by so-called great coaches (Pop comes to mind), w better players. There's something to that. In all the situations that got him to those WCFs against the Spurs, he and to of done some pretty good coaching somewhere in there, no?



    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Rono made many of the points I did or would make however I do not agree that MDA is a great end game coach, he is mediocre at best. (given what I have seen so far with a limited roster) That said, Crazy you are ignoring the fact that a roster comprising of so many new players will not be firing on all cylinders and chemistry will yet to be established therefore critiquing our "predictability" in the last bunch of games after a trade is not entirely indicative of our potential. (neither is chastising our play with all those injuries against a veteran Boston team known for defense)

    And yes, Billups injury or lack of play making(style,age or injury) was a huge reason for this. Yes, I am bringing up Billups again and yes I am reiterating the need for a pass first PG in this system. To not do so or claim this is somehow a cop out is to say a system like the Triangle offense doesn't need a Kobe or MJ to be successful at a high level when we all know it does. Every system needs the "right" players and we have 3/4's of the team we need for MDA. Further I submit it will be a lot easier to fill out our roster with SSOL type players than changing our identity and going strictly for defensive bigs, relying on stops and not our offense. I understand the importance of defense but I recognize the lack of quality bigs attainable. I also think that the Suns under MDA were of championship caliber for almost his whole tenure and his system could have brought a title had things gone differently.(suspensions, Spurs dynasty, etc.) After all, only one team wins a year when there are plenty of championship caliber teams! The Suns were a 60+ win team in a much tougher West, year in and year out and we must understand that that goal normally proceeds making it over the mountain to a title. We should all be so lucky to go from the NY Stinks/Bricks of the last decade to a team competing on that level!

    After a decade of different coaches including two hall of fame coaches that lead to similar results some stability is in order. MDA has one year left on his contract and I believe earned the right to give it a go after sacrificing his W/L record and reputation to come here knowing we were in the beginning of a long rebuild and uphill battle. (he would have been paid by other teams including Chicago) Lets build on what we started, acquire some more pieces and then, only then can we truly judge MDA's time in NYC. To do so now when up unitll this year we were cap shedding/rebuilding, had a $14-16 mil hole in our roster with Curry riding the bench and after less than 1/2 a season from a major trade that drastically altered not only our roster but core identity once again would be premature IMHO.
    The fact we lost Billups, had a broken down Fields and a hobbled Amare should be taken in to consideration for sure. Phil Jackson, w our ridiculously undermanned roster, would have gotten swept by the Celts too. Alright maybe he would've one one game.

    I also agree w the bits re: MDA deserving this year.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jun 07, 2011 at 22:10.

  5. #35
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    Yeah we basically lost Amar'e and Billups for Games 2-4...

    That being said I think D'Antoni might have a lot to do with why Amar'e got hurt...he did play him a TON of minutes...

  6. #36
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Good day, gentlemen. Epic win for the Mavs tonight! WOO!

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Rono made many of the points I did or would make however I do not agree that MDA is a great end game coach, he is mediocre at best. (given what I have seen so far with a limited roster) That said, Crazy you are ignoring the fact that a roster comprising of so many new players will not be firing on all cylinders and chemistry will yet to be established therefore critiquing our "predictability" in the last bunch of games after a trade is not entirely indicative of our potential. (neither is chastising our play with all those injuries against a veteran Boston team known for defense)
    You're right. I did ignore that fact. That, and the fact that STAT sat (Dr. Seuss) in the last few games of the season. But as I mentioned in my previous post - and in so many prior - there is no excuse for how prosaic our offence was. Absolutely none. Bar, also, when STAT and Billups were out. It would be completely stupid and unfair to say otherwise. But throughout, what was it, 28 games? MD's offence was laughable.

    - A 2 man isolation offence?

    - Shawne Williams [one of our most relied upon rebounders] loitering in the left corner possession after possession? Literally child's play for defences.

    - No interior offence with an athletic 6'10" beast on our team? Season long issue.

    - Individual plays resulting in 3 point shots off the dribble from our non primary scorers? Douglas being the focal.

    - We force shots that allow our opponents to run a better transition game than we do? Why? It's not because of Chauncey Billups.

    In fairness, however, our defence was much improved. Credit where credit's due.

    And yes, Billups injury or lack of play making(style,age or injury) was a huge reason for this. Yes, I am bringing up Billups again and yes I am reiterating the need for a pass first PG in this system.
    No, we don't. We have Amar'e and Melo. We need a system that embellishes such a potent 1-2 punch. Would there be a single coach in this league that wouldn't salivate over such a prospect? Especially considering that they are both exceptional [especially Melo] passers.

    To not do so or claim this is somehow a cop out is to say a system like the Triangle offense doesn't need a Kobe or MJ to be successful at a high level when we all know it does.
    Tex Winter made that offence for Michael Jordan. Therein lies the disparity. That entire methodology fosters the conducing of an optimised offence that revolves around its best weapon.

    D'Antoni's, in that 28(?) game stretch did not do so, in the sense of incorporating other players as Winter's triangle does, as well as conjuring something to unleash a 2 man game between STAT & Melo.

    In regard to time to adjust after the trade, I think this (adjustment period) allows for leniency. But considering that it wasn't addressed nor adjusted to as much as it should have been [basically not at all], it has become exempt from such allowance.

    Every system needs the "right" players and we have 3/4's of the team we need for MDA. Further I submit it will be a lot easier to fill out our roster with SSOL type players than changing our identity and going strictly for defensive bigs, relying on stops and not our offense.
    But our offence has to have the right system. Plainly and simply. Which is more easily replaced?

    Our offence must be honed by our defence. That was the echoing point of our entire season. Offence must be fed by defence. Bigs are absolutely essential to anchoring our defence and igniting our transition game. We can not continue to allow so many possessions if we do not have the capability to defend against them.

    I understand the importance of defense but I recognize the lack of quality bigs attainable.
    *sigh... It is true.

    I also think that the Suns under MDA were of championship caliber for almost his whole tenure and his system could have brought a title had things gone differently.(suspensions, Spurs dynasty, etc.) After all, only one team wins a year when there are plenty of championship caliber teams! The Suns were a 60+ win team in a much tougher West, year in and year out and we must understand that that goal normally proceeds making it over the mountain to a title.
    No offence, but this has to stop. It has been irrelevant since MD arrived in NY. The present and future alone remain, and have been all that matter since that day. If we had the same roster as Phoenix did then....... You get what I'm saying.

    Lets build on what we started, acquire some more pieces and then, only then can we truly judge MDA's time in NYC. To do so now when up unitll this year we were cap shedding/rebuilding, had a $14-16 mil hole in our roster with Curry riding the bench and after less than 1/2 a season from a major trade that drastically altered not only our roster but core identity once again would be premature IMHO.
    We will see, my friend.

    He'll be here, that's a given.

    But this can't be about what he needs to be successful any more.

    It has to be about what he does to be successful, with what he has.

    He has the tools and he has a last chance.


  7. #37
    Newbie friedduck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Yeah we basically lost Amar'e and Billups for Games 2-4...

    That being said I think D'Antoni might have a lot to do with why Amar'e got hurt...he did play him a TON of minutes...
    you DAMN fool. time to get some truth in here n call this stink job of urs out son..i about to make yous my hun, jus don't bend over plz, im just a baller u can't handle my g, tho i know u must want some of these, nba caliber balls..

    Coach didnt play Amare 'a TON' of minutes. was in-line wit many other players of his caliber in this league. check the stats before u get corrected ON STAT and sound so flaming son.

    jive ass...wanna try to act like fragile Amare...f that, fragile it dont matter..any pro NBA player, and a pf...playing a man's game with this type of physicality..gets a tweak back injury?

    and u wanna try to blame coach n pass that cattle **** off in dis place n stink it up? DAMN fool...

    and y'all THINK losing Amare and Billups???? It may have? It may have had An Impact, It Contributed? que picture of a mother fckin zebra family laughing their asses off, this **** be so comedic.

  8. #38
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by friedduck
    you DAMN fool. time to get some truth in here n call this stink job of urs out son..i about to make yous my hun, jus don't bend over plz, im just a baller u can't handle my g, tho i know u must want some of these, nba caliber balls..

    Coach didnt play Amare 'a TON' of minutes. was in-line wit many other players of his caliber in this league. check the stats before u get corrected ON STAT and sound so flaming son.

    jive ass...wanna try to act like fragile Amare...f that, fragile it dont matter..any pro NBA player, and a pf...playing a man's game with this type of physicality..gets a tweak back injury?

    and u wanna try to blame coach n pass that cattle **** off in dis place n stink it up? DAMN fool...

    and y'all THINK losing Amare and Billups???? It may have? It may have had An Impact, It Contributed? que picture of a mother fckin zebra family laughing their asses off, this **** be so comedic.

    People keep saying MDA broke Amare down. He averaged a little over 37-38 mpg. Which is normal for a star caliber player.

    The injury was a freak thing that happened on the lay-up line when he tried to dunk smh..

    If anything, Amare having to carry the load as our only star, running in to doubles and tripples, taking hard fouls every game, being the focal point of the other team's defensive attack night in and night out, that stretch of 9 games where he averaged 30 points or more - that shet causes attrition. Him not having another allstar level talent next to him is what I would look at more.

    He just tweaked himself. He's shown himself to be injury prone anyway. MDA's alottment of minutes is a given. We might notve even gotten in to the playoffs had he used Amare more sparingly.

    On another note, aren't you Ducktales? Just an inkling I got..

    Ducktales, Fried duck, same swag = same poster, no? ;-)

  9. #39
    Newbie friedduck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    People keep saying MDA broke Amare down. He averaged a little over 37-38 mpg. Which is normal for a star caliber player.

    The injury was a freak thing that happened on the lay-up line when he tried to dunk smh..

    If anything, Amare having to carry the load as our only star, running in to doubles and tripples, taking hard fouls every game, being the focal point of the other team's defensive attack night in and night out, that stretch of 9 games where he averaged 30 points or more - that shet causes attrition. Him not having another allstar level talent next to him is what I would look at more.

    He just tweaked himself. He's shown himself to be injury prone anyway. MDA's alottment of minutes is a given. We might notve even gotten in to the playoffs had he used Amare more sparingly.

    On another note, aren't you Ducktales? Just an inkling I got..

    Ducktales, Fried duck, same swag = same poster, no? ;-)
    Of course my brother. But why we even need to waste a 5star breath educating these ZEROstar posters is jus smmfh. Riles me up to see that **** talk get slapped onto the new York knicks.

    Fools forget we had Melo for a few ****ing weeks, wha? It was STAT, few role players, couple over achievers -- talkin to you Wilson, and his sons who fanboyed his ass early on to try n make a shot against the only **** they never liked.....

    Any way my holmes, idk about this ducktales much, tho he seems to have the instincts of excellence. If u say his swag be like mine, shiit, then that ain't no surprise.

  10. #40
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    D'Antoni played Amar'e the same amount of minutes as other players but don't forget that our team was THIRD in pace factor...it's not the same as other coaches who run as lower system...

    Also let's not forget Amar'e is a guy with bad knees. That being said, yes, it WAS a freak accident, but I'm starting to wonder how much more Amar'e can take.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Like I, and others, have said before...if you run an offensive system that's based on creating extra possessions, you're going to STRUGGLE on the defensive end.

    An inside out offense goes hand-in-hand with defense. We CAN NOT run this perimeter oriented offense and play playoff caliber defense. We have to limit possessions somehow, and we can either achieve that by rebounding or systematically use more shot/game clock...ideally both.

    I don't know what our defensive assistant will be doing/saying/thinking when we put up an early perimeter shot, miss it, and can't get to the rebound...that scenario DIRECTLY leads to the opposing team being in transition...ok...so do we sacrifice offensive rebounds like the Celtics, solely to play transition D? Because they're routinely one of the higher field goal percentage teams...which means easy shots...not necessarily open shots (which everyone says MDA creates) but easy shots. Open shots mean nothing if you miss and can't get the rebound because it was a long range shot that lead to a long rebound for the opposition.

    Defense in any team based game with a game clock is always based on limiting possessions...always. Think about it....the Bulls had the lowest OPP Field Goal % at 43% for the season...that's tops in the league. They also had the lowest Pace (Possessions per 48 minutes), and gave up the fewest points per 100 possessions. Which both tie directly into that 43% opponents field goals. 43% of the 92-93 possessions they allowed is less than 43% of say...95-97 possessions per game, plus that field goal percentage probably gets bumped up a little bit because of transition buckets (where the extra possessions really kill you.)

    So if the Knicks are to ever play potential chip-worthy defense, they have to make changes to the offense as well. Hiring a defensive assistant alone won't do the trick.
    The number of points a team gives up per game is irrelevant. The more possessions in the game (the faster the pace) the more points both teams will score and vice versa.

    That doesn't matter one bit.

    What matters is DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY which means POINTS PER POSSESSION.

    If the Knicks have the best offensive efficiency in the league because of D'Antoni's system and score 112 points per game playing at a fast pace, giving up 105 points per game on all those possessions would actually be GREAT DEFENSE!!!!! It's a point differential of 7 points which would be spectacular.

    NEVER EVER EVER look at how many points per game a team gives up. Any team can limit the points per game by playing at a slow pace, but that doesn't make them a good defensive team or a good team.

  12. #42
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Italian Stallion
    The number of points a team gives up per game is irrelevant. The more possessions in the game (the faster the pace) the more points both teams will score and vice versa.

    That doesn't matter one bit.

    What matters is DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY which means POINTS PER POSSESSION.

    If the Knicks have the best offensive efficiency in the league because of D'Antoni's system and score 112 points per game playing at a fast pace, giving up 105 points per game on all those possessions would actually be GREAT DEFENSE!!!!! It's a point differential of 7 points which would be spectacular.

    NEVER EVER EVER look at how many points per game a team gives up. Any team can limit the points per game by playing at a slow pace, but that doesn't make them a good defensive team or a good team.
    This post is excellent!

    So true.

    Off / Def efficiency is the purer way to judge the prowess of teams, especially ours because of how we play.

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