Warriors Hire Mark Jackson

Red said:

Dear RonFarina,

This...



Is...



Called...



Hate.

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Don't quote me and call it "hate."
I think it's stupid and irresponsible to hire a coach with zero head coaching OR assistant coaching experience at ANY level. That's why I'm glad he's not our coach and fully expect him to fail in Golden State.

If I thought he were a good coach, I'd support NY hiring him. But I don't, so I don't.

"Hate," he says.

Red said:

Supposed Knick fans hating when one of their own ascends. For no good reason.

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One of our own? His best years were at Indiana playing AGAINST US! He did more for Indy than he ever did for NY.

As a Knicks fan from childhood, I see no reason to be loyal to Mark Jackson.

Marek said:

Don't cheapen the "race card." There are enough legit racial issues in sports and life that deserve to be called out. This is not one of them.

Lawrence Frank didn't jump from film boy to HC. He was an assistant at Marquette, Tennessee, the Grizzlies, and the Nets before being promoted to HC. That's a LOT of experience.

Name one coach who jumped straight to NBA Head Coach without ANY coaching experience whatsoever.

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So the NFL needed the "Rooney Rule" just to get black coaches interviewed but this isn't an issue that should be discussed???? Surely you jest!!!! My point is that "experience" is a code word for not giving a black man a chance period. How much "experience" do you need than playing 17 years in the NBA as "coach on the floor." Mike D'antoni doesn't have that much "experience" and he makes 6 million a year. But as Chris Rock would say:" Its right because its ALL WHITE..."

jimkcchief88 said:

So the NFL needed the "Rooney Rule" just to get black coaches interviewed but this isn't an issue that should be discussed???? Surely you jest!!!! My point is that "experience" is a code word for not giving a black man a chance period. How much "experience" do you need than playing 17 years in the NBA as "coach on the floor." Mike D'antoni doesn't have that much "experience" and he makes 6 million a year. But as Chris Rock would say:" Its right because its ALL WHITE..."

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:alert::boohoo::alert:

Someone buy dis wigget a muzzle.

Coach D'antoni little experience? Years as pro point guard, euro coaching, NBA coaching, Olympic coaching. Sit down, son, every time you post it sounds like a queef more than coming from some chief. :lol:

How much experience do you need? How bout an OUNCE of NBA coaching bfore u hand dem the keys to new york basketball. Wha? But it's coo cuz he be black? Whachu even saying, why you defending this dude like you want his balls in yo mouth. Oh. Pause.

DAMN fool like you reason wise n strong black men, like myself, get some stereotyped shit as being weak n clinging to color before all other.

jimkcchief88 said:

So the NFL needed the "Rooney Rule" just to get black coaches interviewed but this isn't an issue that should be discussed???? Surely you jest!!!! My point is that "experience" is a code word for not giving a black man a chance period.

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If you want to talk about the NBA snubbing black coaches in general, you'll have to make a case for that. I'd suggest a whole new thread for a topic of such gravitas.

But what you did was point to Mark Jackson and say "they don't like him cuz he's black!"
Surely, you can see how that fails to meet the burden of proof required by your accusation.
(edit - nice straw man argument, though. I actually agree that the Rooney Rule was a good thing, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about whether we do or don't think Mark Jackson will be a good coach.)

jimkcchief88 said:

How much "experience" do you need than playing 17 years in the NBA as "coach on the floor."

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*Actual* coaching experience would be nice.
I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

jimkcchief88 said:

Mike D'antoni doesn't have that much "experience" and he makes 6 million a year. But as Chris Rock would say:" Its right because its ALL WHITE..."

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Mike D'Antoni had playing experience, NBA scouting experience, NBA assistant coaching experience, and NBA head coaching experience before he got the job in Phoenix. There, he turned the Suns into perennial contenders.

Love him or hate him, D'Antoni got his current contract based on merit, not because he's white.

But, please...feel free to rant on with minimal facts or logic.

Careful Marek -

Last time I stated that I prefer hiring coaches with experience, it was construed by SOME people who shall remain nameless as supporting a rehiring of Isiah Thomas.

I know what you are saying, too bad nobody else does.

Marek said:

Don't quote me and call it "hate."
I think it's stupid and irresponsible to hire a coach with zero head coaching OR assistant coaching experience at ANY level. That's why I'm glad he's not our coach and fully expect him to fail in Golden State.

If I thought he were a good coach, I'd support NY hiring him. But I don't, so I don't.

"Hate," he says.



One of our own? His best years were at Indiana playing AGAINST US! He did more for Indy than he ever did for NY.

As a Knicks fan from childhood, I see no reason to be loyal to Mark Jackson.

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Red,

The above is all fair and echos some of the questions I've already raised.

I'm having a difficult time understanding what you're not seeing. What's obvious is that your overlooking how little coaching experience MJ has.

You haven't addressed any of the legit points made.

Thus far you've only bitched and moaned and misrepresented people as haters when they have valid concerns.

MDA, whether you like it or not, had more coaching experience than MJ before his first NBA headcoaching hire. I know that makes steam fly out your ears but it's the truth. MDA paid his dues.

I get the whole Rooney rule deal. But there are alot of black assistants around the NBA gaining experience. Avery Johnson wasn't just given a coaching job. Sam Cassell is paying his dues as an assistant. Herb's been on our staff since the beginning of time. Not sure that NFL rule really can be used to say a someone like MJ deserves more of a chance than some other guys. in the context of the NBA. Mike Brown comes to mind also. He was on Pop's staff for a minute.. Earned a few rings w that team if I remember correctly .. Hell, back in the 60s, Bill Russell was a player- coach and won championships. The NBA has much better track record in this area than the NFL. That argument won't work in this context. Sry Jim. ;-)

What's wrong w MJ working on some headcoach's staff for a few seasons as an assistant? Is that too much to ask. Why's he so entitled??

Can you answer any of these questions substantively?

Challenge yourself..

I think Ryen Russilo put the thoughts of those in the "inexperience" camp best -

If you really wanted to be a head coach so bad, why wouldn't you coach, ever, at any point? We can talk about being a Point Guard and the coaches that he played for and having that experience and just understanding the game...I just always kind of think, 'You're going to just stay there and keep waiting for these gigs?'

But then I realized, guess what...he got what he wanted. Mark Jackson got a head coaching gig without ever having to be an assistant, or having to coach in the NBDL or having to do a lot of things everyone else has to do.

I could tell Mark Jackson: You want to coach so bad? Get an assistant's job.

Or he could tell me: Oh yeah, great advice, or I'll just wait it out...be on the feature broadcasting team for the NBA...

Now, over the last couple of years when he has been linked to teams, teams that I've talked to weren't blown away by him. I know for a fact that one team in the Eastern Conference after the interview wanted nothing to do with him, and the front office was ready to revolt if that's who ownership wanted to hire...

I'd want a guy with a little more experience there...but who knows? Maybe he will be able to connect to the players...He's a heck of a player...I don't want to sound like I'm anti-Mark Jackson but...it surprises me that it worked for him...

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Red said:

Did I say I think he would be a good coach because he was a good player? No.

But when someone uses their opinion of his commentary as some sort of reason for why he won't be a good coach, before he eveb starts, I call them for what they are...

Haters.



How could you offend me or even think that you could.
Using your logic, how can YOU be offended by being called a hater when the comment had nothing to do with you, unless you are a hater

Which by your above statement you are. I accpet your opinion, the fact that he is part of the team commentating in the finals says the people that matter feel different.

And for both of you, IF you are not haters, a simple congrats would do...

But I guess that's too hard.

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Yeah, can't imagine why I'd think you were offended after you started throwing F bombs at anyone who dared to criticize Mark Jackson's commentary on NBA telecasts. *rolleyes*

Once again for the record, I've always loved Mark Jackson during his days as a Knick. Not so much when he was playing for the Pacers & doing his shimmy playing alongside Reggie Miller. I'm happy for him that he got a coaching gig. Was never sure what kind of coach he would make, I wish him success, but never felt he would be the best choice for the Knicks cuz I felt we needed someone with a more proven coaching track record. Never did like the hire of M-no-D-A, I was actually pulling for Avery Johnson to be hired at the time, not that I need to explain myself to you but just wanna get the facts straight. So once again, you might want to stop with the generalizations & assumptions based on nothing, just because I don't like the way Mark Jackson commentates a game doesn't mean I think he's gonna be a bad coach.

ronoranina said:

p.s. I'm from the school of - this is a forum... we spit our opinions.. people comment.. it's a good thing.. no need to get all hemoroidal over another posters opinion.

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Agreed. Red's reaction is just way overboard. Labelling people as haters & 'Antoni supporters just cuz they don't like the way Jax does commentary during games. Not sure where that comes from.

STAT1 said:

Agreed. Red's reaction is just way overboard. Labelling people as haters & 'Antoni supporters just cuz they don't like the way Jax does commentary during games. Not sure where that comes from.

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Ok so let's see.

Some posters commented/offered an opinion regarding MJ's hiring BASED ON WHAT THEY FELT ABOUT HIS COMMENTARY and that's valid?

But I offered my opinion towards those unwilling to see how things turn out with a team no one (I don't think) has ANY vested interest in and called them "haters"...

But I'm "bitching and moaning"?

Is that how it goes?

Now the slanguistic term "hater" is offensive? Really?

Should I say by not allowing time to pass before judging and there is no validation in forming an opinion based on facts NOT present except for what you have observed via commentary is unfair? In my opinion? This equates to hating.

Further, isn't it ironic and contrary to do so whe many of these same posters are more than willing to place blame on our "roster" when defending 'Antoni?

So IF MJ fails/struggles its lack of [coaching] experience, but if MA does so its justified? Really, I just make no sense right?

And I'm NOT saying all or anyone in particular "supports MA over MJ", and if you do its wrong...

I'm saying to believe MJ will fail or doesn't deserve a shot with the bumba$$ GSW's because of how you perceive his commentary isn't fair at all.

Now if you say "who knows how he will do" or "I hope his lack of coaching doesn't limit his success" that's different.

To constantly post regarding his commentary as anecdotal evidence he isn't a good choice as a coach is bs. To say his lack of coacing experience "might" lead to him struggling BEFORE the results are in is called "hating" in my book.

hating
To engage in ridicule and mockery for amusement, synonym: "to Phil"
Phil has a PhD in hating; he studied under Dr. James Hatesmith, a pioneer in the field of haterology.

hating
jealousy and anger rolled up in one
Tom was hating on Tim because Tim was given a promotion that Tom thought he deserved.

Hating
Hating is the end result of being a hater. Hating is wide spread, very popular and a highly enjoyable past time for many. Contrary to popular belief, Hating is not due to jealousy bur rather the good feeling of putting someone down while simultaneously increasing your own ego. Many victims are hated on because of their success, but many more are hated due to their lack of it. Most hating is a result of the victims bragging and/or 'My turds don't stink' attitude.

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As far as race goes (don't know how that's relevant) I can see how some feel the intolerance might be based on race, I don't feel the same but I will say...

There is plenty of historic evidence that this not only might play a part, but many would rather turn a blind eye.

Isn't that the case?

ronoranina said:

Red,

The above is all fair and echos some of the questions I've already raised.

I'm having a difficult time understanding what you're not seeing. What's obvious is that your overlooking how little coaching experience MJ has.

You haven't addressed any of the legit points made.

Thus far you've only bitched and moaned and misrepresented people as haters when they have valid concerns.

MDA, whether you like it or not, had more coaching experience than MJ before his first NBA headcoaching hire. I know that makes steam fly out your ears but it's the truth. MDA paid his dues.

I get the whole Rooney rule deal. But there are alot of black assistants around the NBA gaining experience. Avery Johnson wasn't just given a coaching job. Sam Cassell is paying his dues as an assistant. Herb's been on our staff since the beginning of time. Not sure that NFL rule really can be used to say a someone like MJ deserves more of a chance than some other guys. in the context of the NBA. Mike Brown comes to mind also. He was on Pop's staff for a minute.. Earned a few rings w that team if I remember correctly .. Hell, back in the 60s, Bill Russell was a player- coach and won championships. The NBA has much better track record in this area than the NFL. That argument won't work in this context. Sry Jim. ;-)

What's wrong w MJ working on some headcoach's staff for a few seasons as an assistant? Is that too much to ask. Why's he so entitled??

Can you answer any of these questions substantively?

Challenge yourself..

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I'm having a hard time seeing what little coaching experience MJ has?

The f*ck are you talking about?

I just posted several instances where "his lack of coaching experience" wasn't even mentioned and still doesn't justify hating on him.

It was about his commentary.

So let's put this lame subject to bed because I'm tired of your propensity to exaggerate and misconstrue.

Let's keep it simple stupid.

"I'm not sure he will be a good choice due to his lack of coaching experience" makes sense.

"I don't like/hate/am tired of his commentary so he isn't a good choice" is hating.

Keep trying to debate this anyway you'd like. I'll keep patiently putting things into perspective.

I love how you attempt to paint me as emotional or far fetched when using words like f*ck or hate. I enjoy knowing how miniscule you look with your attempts at reverse psychology and deflecion. Where I'm from (NYC) those terms are far from emotional. Where are you from? A place where you get all bent out of shape and frequently post and label people for doing the same sh*t your actions illustrate? Where's that?

Take it for what its worth. Ask before you assume. And don't make a fool of yourself addressing me with your non-sense because you lack understanding; or else you will be labeled a hater and a poor exaggerating debater. Don't waste your time injecting your garbage into a simple point then repeat it.

What part of this don't you get? Don't go off on tangents talking about MJ lack of experience. Re-read my points above if you need to. And if that's not enough, just ignore me and keep it moving- that's another slang term do you need an explanation for that too? Will you twist and exaggerate that or do you understand? Will you label me emotional for that or is that a succinct message well received?

Red,

Recognize this:

"F*ck all you Jackson haters. The man is getting a well deserved opportunity and has paid his dues many times over."

So this isn't emotional? I guess all NY'ers come off as butthurt as you sound here. Lame.

Who's miscontruing?

And how exactly has he "paid his dues many times over" smfh as you say?

This was the dumbest ^^^^^^^^^^^comment in the whole thread. And you're calling me stupid.[/quote]

ronoranina said:

"F*ck all you Jackson haters. The man is getting a well deserved opportunity and has paid his dues many times over."

So this isn't emotional? I guess all NY'ers come off as butthurt as you sound here. Lame.

Who's miscontruing?

And how exactly has he "paid his dues many times over" smfh as you say?

This was the dumbest ^^^^^^^^^^^comment in the whole thread. And you're calling me stupid.

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Show us where it says being an assistant predetermines coaching success.

Show us where it says being a controversial commentater equates to lack coacing success.

Show us where anyone cares what Golden State does.

I just showed you what's meant by hating and some like you qualify. I just showed you how to rephrase your personal bias with objective analysis and speculation devoid of "liking his commentary".

Again for all my slow students:

"I speculate he won't be successful based on (insert legitimate observation)" is fine, your opinion, and indisputable.

"I hate his monotone voice, one liners, etc... therefore I feel he will fail" equals hateration.

The inability to wait and see while realizing you probably don't even care about the Warriors equals hateration.

And yes paid dues my g. He's probably forgot more basketball after being in the league for 17 years than you have learned your entire life. Added he is known for his ability to motivate and communicate as well as x's and o's- and that's without a single sideline minute that we know of.

Just realize you are a hater, and not the only one.

Class dismissed.

Red said:

Show us where it says being an assistant predetermines coaching success. Are you serious?

Show us where it says being a controversial commentater equates to lack coacing success. This is idiotic and nobody is really saying being shitty at A means he'll suck at B. You Red a little too deeply into our words and overreacted due to your excessive hormones..

Show us where anyone cares what Golden State does. We'll probably all look a little more closely at GState now..

I just showed you what's meant by hating and some like you qualify. I just showed you how to rephrase your personal bias with objective analysis and speculation devoid of "liking his commentary".

Again for all my slow students:

"I speculate he won't be successful based on (insert legitimate observation)" is fine, your opinion, and indisputable.

"I hate his monotone voice, one liners, etc... therefore I feel he will fail" equals hateration. Again, nobody is saying one predicts the other. Your obtuseness has oozed out all over this thread.

The inability to wait and see while realizing you probably don't even care about the Warriors equals hateration. Maybe in the bizaroo world where you live sir.. We can speculate all we want.

And yes paid dues my g. He's probably forgot more basketball after being in the league for 17 years than you have learned your entire life. Added he is known for his ability to motivate and communicate as well as x's and o's- and that's without a single sideline minute that we know of. This is complete BS. You just make shet up as you go along. Ridiculous. Can't believe you're actually making this point. You owned yourself w this nonsense. :thumbsup:

Just realize you are a hater, and not the only one. Evidenced by me begining my first post in this thread w, "Good for him". You live on another planet my LittleRedridinghood.

Class dismissed.

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Who's really doing the teaching here? ;-)

The biggest hater on the board, evidenced by recent and upcoming votes on the End of the Year Awards forum, wants to get on me and a few other posters for questioning the MJ hire when he has no coaching experience. I can't believe you. Just admit your wrong and move on. Sry dude but your display is just hypocritical and pathetic..

Again for the slow children.. lol The only reason people question him is because he has no experience, not because of of his commentating or anything else.

Here's one thing I never quite understood. Some folks gave the idea of hiring Ewing a hard time because he doesn't have any head coaching experience.

How then, hasn't the same been said to Mark Jackson, who has no experience coaching period? At least Ewing is an assistant down in Orlando.

SSj4Wingzero said:

Here's one thing I never quite understood. Some folks gave the idea of hiring Ewing a hard time because he doesn't have any head coaching experience.

How then, hasn't the same been said to Mark Jackson, who has no experience coaching period? At least Ewing is an assistant down in Orlando.

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I know that I've been consistent in this feeling...

ronoranina said:

Who's really doing the teaching here?

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I am motherf*cker now take a seat.


Doc Rivers

Larry Bird

Lenny Wilkens

Don Nelson

...all successful coaches without previous "experience".

?Sources said West was instrumental in the hiring, as he had made it clear he wasn?t looking for a ?retread? coach and that he preferred candidates who played the game professionally. That background and his national television spot clearly give Jackson credibility among the game?s modern-day players and could perhaps come in handy during free agency?

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Scott Skiles

Vinny DelNegro

Dave Cowens

Shall I go on...

West likes him (yeah the NBA logo West), many say he has great attributes, and many posters referred to his commentating (hating)

yet you have doubts based on your uber knowledge.

You're a complete failure, stick to clamoring for CP3. You're like a druggie looking for the next great fix- pun intended.

Living well is the best revenge.- George Herbert​

Red said:

Ok so let's see.

Some posters commented/offered an opinion regarding MJ's hiring BASED ON WHAT THEY FELT ABOUT HIS COMMENTARY and that's valid?

But I offered my opinion towards those unwilling to see how things turn out with a team no one (I don't think) has ANY vested interest in and called them "haters"...

But I'm "bitching and moaning"?

Is that how it goes?

Now the slanguistic term "hater" is offensive? Really?

Should I say by not allowing time to pass before judging and there is no validation in forming an opinion based on facts NOT present except for what you have observed via commentary is unfair? In my opinion? This equates to hating.

Further, isn't it ironic and contrary to do so whe many of these same posters are more than willing to place blame on our "roster" when defending 'Antoni?

So IF MJ fails/struggles its lack of [coaching] experience, but if MA does so its justified? Really, I just make no sense right?

And I'm NOT saying all or anyone in particular "supports MA over MJ", and if you do its wrong...

I'm saying to believe MJ will fail or doesn't deserve a shot with the bumba$$ GSW's because of how you perceive his commentary isn't fair at all.

Now if you say "who knows how he will do" or "I hope his lack of coaching doesn't limit his success" that's different.

To constantly post regarding his commentary as anecdotal evidence he isn't a good choice as a coach is bs. To say his lack of coacing experience "might" lead to him struggling BEFORE the results are in is called "hating" in my book.

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His lack of coaching experience might lead him to struggle, it might not. What's that got to do with labelling people as haters when they criticize Jackson's commentary? You're trying to pull an argument out of nowhere. You're getting completely overly defensive over some random criticism that has NOTHING to do with Jackson's ability, or inability thereof, of being a head coach in the NBA, & nor were those comments ever intended to even suggest as much, but somehow you derived that correlation out of your over zealous desire to defend a man who you obviously wanted to coach this team for a while now. Once again, stay away from the generalizations & assumptions about how people feel about this man. I have never said a critical word about Mark Jackson other than to say I don't care for his commentary. I have always been at odds with posters like rono about his support for MDA's coaching style, & have never agreed with the constant excuses being made for the man either. So here you have 2 people who have completely polar opposite views on MDA both saying they don't care for Mark Jackson's commentating. Not sure why it's a problem for you that we chose to express that view on this thread. It wasn't exactly a main theme being discussed, just some off the cuff comment thrown into the discussion. In my view you're making a mountain out of a molehill. If you want to call people haters that already think Jackson will fail as the coach of the GSW before he ever coaches a single game, then all power to you. At least I can see the reasoning behind it, & I would agree with you in that case. For me I have no idea whatsoever what kind of coach he will make. He was a very heady player in his heyday so one would assume some of that would carry over to his coaching style, but who knows. Isiah Thomas was a very heady player too in his heyday but not so much as an NBA coach. I wish Mark Jackson much success in GS. He's waited a while to get this shot, hope he takes advantage of it.

Red said:

I am motherf*cker now take a seat.


Doc Rivers

Larry Bird

Lenny Wilkens

Don Nelson

...all successful coaches without previous "experience".



Scott Skiles

Vinny DelNegro

Dave Cowens

Shall I go on...

West likes him (yeah the NBA logo West), many say he has great attributes, and many posters referred to his commentating (hating)

yet you have doubts based on your uber knowledge.

You're a complete failure, stick to clamoring for CP3. You're like a druggie looking for the next great fix- pun intended.

Living well is the best revenge.- George Herbert​

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Depends on how you measure success, but I digress..

As usual Red, your missing the point. I never said I didn't think MJ couldn't be successful. Infact, in my gut I feel he will be. The only thing I question is the man's lack of experience, which IMO is ok to take a glance at and discuss. Apparently you agree w this. But your post in that first angry rant didn't convey that. You actually go so far as to use his commentating, and the insights shared therein, as a reason for him to be hired. I believe you made a comparison of MJ to MDA based on MJ's philosophy that he's shared w you on TV. ;-) Which to me is pretty thin. It's not a coaching resume is all i'm saying. I guess that's why my post dissing his style on TV rubbed some Red off ya..

And ofcourse I understand the history of NBA coaches w no experience. There was no need to post a short -list. Billy Cunningham comes to mind as one player who jumped to pro coaching w no experience other than as player. He was a terrific coach and a better example than those above. I've mentioned Bill Russell. There are many others. All I'm saying is that ideally (the key word) you want your coach to have requisite experience.

I'd like to think that if Mark Jackson had spent the past 3 years since D'Antoni's hiring being an assistant somewhere rather than being an analyst on ABC, Donnie Walsh's exit move probably would've been firing Mike D and hiring Mark Jackson...