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Thread: Can we cut the Superstar sh*t?

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Default Can we cut the Superstar sh*t?

    And realize that teams win championships not individuals.

    We need to concentrate on building a team not addng stars, especially non-big man stars.

    I called this series (Mavs in 6) bcause I felt they had the plyers to exploit MIA's weakness, that being no size, no depth.

    IMO, Dirk & Chandler were better than KG/O'Neal, Noah/Boozer, and Brand/Young.

    I believed MIA had no answer for a 25 & 10 player and a complimentry big like Chandler.

    Does this not show how important big men are, as almost ever other championship we see? Bynum/Gasol, KG/Perk, Duncan/Robinson, Hakeem, The Wallaces, Shaq & co. Etc...

    Yeah wing players form a big part of a team, they are the do-it-all players, hitting from the outside or driving, or mid-range and pass for easy shots but...


    Those bigs in the trenches make the difference. Ask Kobe.


    Next I priortize the COACH.

    Spolstra is not on Carlise's level.

    Coaches utilize the talent and obviously can't exploit a fundamental part of the game (size) when its missing.

    I didn't see the eye of the tiger within Lebron like I do with Dirk, Terry, Kidd and Berrea etc...

    I saw fear and indecisiveness, and a lack of contengency.

    Like a bully or an over-rated boxer who can't handle when someone doesn't back down. As I said the longer the fight goes, the more the confidence shifts from the favorite to the underdog.

    We have work to do. Stop with the CP3 we need stars sh*t.

    Get us some size and coaching (defensive) and we will be the ones battling for the Trophy next year. Trust.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    BTW, I think the superstrs we have are enough.

    Billups-Stat- and Melo. Plenty.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    ☆☆☆☆☆

    Not that it should be necessary to give 5 stars for stating the f'ing obvious.

    Perfect example of fact VS philosophy.

    As you say: "Just ask Kobe".

    I saw fear and indecisiveness, and a lack of contingency.


    Wasn't it unbelievable!

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Carlisle had a great series, but Spo is in a tough spot.

    I've always been a Spo fan - but his position is really impossible. If he doesn't win a title, he's a failure. My bet is he gets fired, and the next team that hires him is pleased that the Heat let him go.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    ☆☆☆☆☆

    Not that it should be necessary to give 5 stars for stating the f'ing obvious.

    Perfect example of fact VS philosophy.

    As you say: "Just ask Kobe".



    Wasn't it unbelievable!
    I saw it early when MIA went hard but couldn't put them away.

    Then when they couldn't help but prematurely celebrate, which actually began before the season started.

    They have ego and indentity problems. A great coach would've tamed that, good luck with that...

    The entitlement mentality is deep with them, maybe Riley will return.

    Moving forward though, when you have a top scorer ala Melo, you surround him with complimets and let him do what he does, the rest falls into place.

    And I'm not saying it should be Melo all day, like with Dirk, he takes over when he's hot, and his team picks him up when he's not. Imagine how hard that is when eveyone thinks they are a "star"

    Quite ironic

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    Member knicksman20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    And realize that teams win championships not individuals.

    We need to concentrate on building a team not addng stars, especially non-big man stars.

    I called this series (Mavs in 6) bcause I felt they had the plyers to exploit MIA's weakness, that being no size, no depth.

    IMO, Dirk & Chandler were better than KG/O'Neal, Noah/Boozer, and Brand/Young.

    I believed MIA had no answer for a 25 & 10 player and a complimentry big like Chandler.

    Does this not show how important big men are, as almost ever other championship we see? Bynum/Gasol, KG/Perk, Duncan/Robinson, Hakeem, The Wallaces, Shaq & co. Etc...

    Yeah wing players form a big part of a team, they are the do-it-all players, hitting from the outside or driving, or mid-range and pass for easy shots but...


    Those bigs in the trenches make the difference. Ask Kobe.


    Next I priortize the COACH.

    Spolstra is not on Carlise's level.

    Coaches utilize the talent and obviously can't exploit a fundamental part of the game (size) when its missing.

    I didn't see the eye of the tiger within Lebron like I do with Dirk, Terry, Kidd and Berrea etc...

    I saw fear and indecisiveness, and a lack of contengency.

    Like a bully or an over-rated boxer who can't handle when someone doesn't back down. As I said the longer the fight goes, the more the confidence shifts from the favorite to the underdog.

    We have work to do. Stop with the CP3 we need stars sh*t.

    Get us some size and coaching (defensive) and we will be the ones battling for the Trophy next year. Trust.
    All great points Red. Carlisle was the coach I was hoping we would get when Isaiah was axed. He's a great combo of an offensive & defensive coach.

    They have a word for the second point I bolded: Front Runners

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Heck, I was saying this since the beginning of the season. But everybody wanted to give the farm for Melo, saying...get this...."we HAVE TO get Melo, we don't want Amare to be like Dirk".

    Depth and a bench are just as important as a superstar. Jason Terry and Barea were just as important. We had our MVP, all we needed were the other pieces, namely a big man, as Red mentioned.

    Hopefully the new CBA allows us to get those important pieces. Or else we'll be just like Miami, but a little worse.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Heck, I was saying this since the beginning of the season. But everybody wanted to give the farm for Melo, saying...get this...."we HAVE TO get Melo, we don't want Amare to be like Dirk".

    Depth and a bench are just as important as a superstar. Jason Terry and Barea were just as important. We had our MVP, all we needed were the other pieces, namely a big man, as Red mentioned.

    Hopefully the new CBA allows us to get those important pieces. Or else we'll be just like Miami, but a little worse.
    Problem is we 1st need the superstar! Amre is no Dirk and not capable of carrying a team like Dirk or Melo. Now that we have that legit star who can carry our team we can fill up the squad with role players.

    BTW:

    1. Miami may not have won last night night but the safe bet is that they WILL win eventually.

    2. Are you really still crusading against Melo? I understand we gave up a ton but are you still regretting him being a Knick in his prime especially after what he did against Boston when our whole team was either injured or incompetent?

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    2. Are you really still crusading against Melo? I understand we gave up a ton but are you still regretting him being a Knick in his prime especially after what he did against Boston when our whole team was either injured or incompetent?
    Yes, I still regret him being a Knick. And if the new CBA is as restrictive as predicted, I will resent him even more.

    Melo was great in Game 2 and good in game 4. He was absolutely terrible in Game 1 and bad in game 3. This is what you get from Melo. I've been saying this from the beginning.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Problem is we 1st need the superstar! Amre is no Dirk and not capable of carrying a team like Dirk or Melo. Now that we have that legit star who can carry our team we can fill up the squad with role players.

    BTW:

    1. Miami may not have won last night night but the safe bet is that they WILL win eventually.

    2. Are you really still crusading against Melo? I understand we gave up a ton but are you still regretting him being a Knick in his prime especially after what he did against Boston when our whole team was either injured or incompetent?
    I think that performance against BOS has put the league on notice.

    Also, it should quail any doubters who believe he either came for the $ or isn't committedto winning.

    Its safe to say we have our Dirk. We have our stars.

    Like we thought long ago that was the tough part then strategically acquiring compliments is next.

    I hope the D'antoni influence doesn't continue to f*ck with that.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yes, I still regret him being a Knick. And if the new CBA is as restrictive as predicted, I will resent him even more.

    Melo was great in Game 2 and good in game 4. He was absolutely terrible in Game 1 and bad in game 3. This is what you get from Melo. I've been saying this from the beginning.
    Address my other points. That said, It's clear you made a prejudgment as you were crusading against this from the beginning and I hope you don't fall into the trap of sticking to your prejudice even as the team finds success.

    Again:

    Step 1 was get that superstar. (Amare and role playters would not have been enough)

    Step 2 is fill the team up with role players and hope some underachievers reach their potential. (Jason Terry)


    P.S. Dallas has Dirk, vets and role players who all overachieve playing against the weakest minded "superstar" ever to play.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    I think that performance against BOS has put the league on notice.

    Also, it should quail any doubters who believe he either came for the $ or isn't committedto winning.

    Its safe to say we have our Dirk. We have our stars.

    Like we thought long ago that was the tough part then strategically acquiring compliments is next.

    I hope the D'antoni influence doesn't continue to f*ck with that.
    Yea it amazes me how any Knick fan cannot support Melo. Maybve you can quibble about the size of the trade but now that he is here how can he not have our full support!? He is OUR Dirk. He is OUR Kobe.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Address my other points. That said, It's clear you made a prejudgment as you were crusading against this from the beginning and I hope you don't fall into the trap of sticking to your prejudice even as the team finds success.

    Again:

    Step 1 was get that superstar. (Amare and role playters would not have been enough)

    Step 2 is fill the team up with role players and hope some underachievers reach their potential. (Jason Terry)


    P.S. Dallas has Dirk, vets and role players who all overachieve playing against the weakest minded "superstar" ever to play.
    Saying Amare is no Dirk after a great playoffs and finals performance, when you were saying we can't afford to let Amare be like Dirk without another superstar, seems like convienent 20/20 hindsight to me.

    I wonder what you would have said about 1/4 through this season. That Dirk is no Amare, possibly?

    While I agree, Amare + role players is not enough, I am quite confident Amare + the 2010 Knicks roster + approx $18 mil in cap space this summer was more than enough to build a contender.

    Amare + Billups + Melo + minimum salary players is definitely not enough. Hoping we land a Jason Terry type for the minimum doesn't seem worth it to me. There were better options than giving up as much as we did for Melo.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yes, I still regret him being a Knick. And if the new CBA is as restrictive as predicted, I will resent him even more.

    Melo was great in Game 2 and good in game 4. He was absolutely terrible in Game 1 and bad in game 3. This is what you get from Melo. I've been saying this from the beginning.
    We can point to any star and find this.

    And recall where we were before this in terms of wanting a star, it looked impossible.

    So what's your point? He was too expensive or his game too inconsistent?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Saying Amare is no Dirk after a great playoffs and finals performance, when you were saying we can't afford to let Amare be like Dirk without another superstar, seems like convienent 20/20 hindsight to me.

    I wonder what you would have said about 1/4 through this season. That Dirk is no Amare, possibly?

    While I agree, Amare + role players is not enough, I am quite confident Amare + the 2010 Knicks roster + approx $18 mil in cap space this summer was more than enough to build a contender.

    Amare + Billups + Melo + minimum salary players is definitely not enough. Hoping we land a Jason Terry type for the minimum doesn't seem worth it to me. There were better options than giving up as much as we did for Melo.
    1. What a player does defines him and Dirk lead his team to a title. Not seeing that in Amare is not hindsight but rather my impression and conclusion of the type of game Amare has. Great scorer, lot of heart but nothing much else.

    2. Amare + Melo + 14 mil of Billups expiring is pretty decent.

    3. As everyone pointed out its Dirk and a bunch of role players. We have our "Dirk" and Amare and now we need to fill up our team much like Dallas did. They did not do it overnight and it took many years. Relax and enjoy the ride...we have 2 legit stars in their prime and time to make the moves necessary. I for one will enjoy the journey as we get better and better.

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