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Thread: How to build a winner for 2011-2012. My summer offseason plan of attack

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    Default How to build a winner for 2011-2012. My summer offseason plan of attack

    The New York Knicks payroll for the upcoming 2011-2012 season is $64,972,189... and this accounts for only 9 players who are currently under contract on this roster... (50 million of our cap reserved for our "big-3"):

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire, Chauncey Billups, Ronny Turiaf, Ronaldo Balkman, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, Andy Rautins & Landry Fields.

    We just selected 2 players in the draft (Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrellson). We're also considering recalling 7-footer Jerome Jordan. We definitely want to bring back free agent Shawne Williams (and possible Anthony Carter, Shelden Williams & Derrick Brown). I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we let Jared Jeffries walk...

    H-O-W-E-V-E-R... OBVIOUSLY, the salary cap aint going up. If we're lucky the cap is somewhere between 65 and 70 million. I wouldn't count on it though. Sounds like Stern is pushing for a cap slightly beneath where we are right now:

    "In a session Tuesday that NBA commissioner David Stern had labeled critical to the parties' ability to get a new labor contract in place by the current one's June 30 expiration, the owners revealed more specifics from their latest proposal than the union did. One of those was the "flex" salary cap in which a targeted team-payroll amount -- $62 million, Stern said -- would be bracketed by a minimum and a maximum, both still undetermined even in the owners' proposal."

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Anyway, someone else better suited to talk about this stuff (a captologist, if you will) can expound more on the details of what a hard or flex cap means, as well as what sort of possible exemptions will/do/may/might exist that allows the free-spending Dolan to create more space for our beloved Knickerbockers.

    But, suffice to say, our Knicks are stuck between a rock and a water tower. Let's just assume we keep 1 of these 3 "bigs" - Jordan, Williams, Harrellson; we resign Shawne and, of course, we keep Shumpert. I'll be conservative and guess we sign these 3 players for a combined 2.6 million?

    I suspect Mr. Balkman (and his 1.675 mil) is a goner. So, 9-1=8 (+3) gives us 11 players for slightly over 65 million. BUT... a roster like this does what exactly?

    Billups
    Shumpert
    Anthony
    Stoudemire
    Turiaf

    Douglas, Fields, Shawne Williams, Walker, A BIG, Rautins

    Along with this cast... we would probably bring in a guy like B-Wells, J-Alexander, take a gamble on a guy like Vernon Goodridge, and some other creative manuevering... STILL, this isnt good enough. Trades have to be made, and we pray exemptions are available! BUT, most likely, this is what our roster will look like next year.

    TRADES: The problem here... Our tradeable assets (Douglas, Fields, Walker) make about 1 million (give or take). Even if we toss in a Balkman, it still barely adds up to 3 million. SO, what sort of players are out there... whom we could afford to deal for and could be on the block? I would suggest... here's some players I would look at if I were GM:

    Ramon Sessions (4.2 mil), Dahntay Jones (2.7 mil), Luke Ridnour (3.6 mil), Goran Dragic (2.1 mil), DJ Augustine (3.2 mil), Omri Casspi (1.3 mil), Robin Lopez (2.8 mil), Eric Maynor (1.5 mil), Erson Ilyasova (2.5 mil), Carlos Delfino (3.5 mil), Tony Allen (3.1 mil), Will Bynum (3.5).

    FREE AGENCY: The problem here... We just don't have a hole lot of cash available to throw around this summer. Anyway, let's look at some free agents I would target if I were GM:

    Samuel Dalembert, Joel Pryzbilla, Jeff Foster, Kenyon Martin, Reggie Evans, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Michael Redd, Jamal Crawford, Josh Powell, Kwame Brown, Kurth Thomas, DeShawn Stevenson, J.R. Smith, Tayshaun Prince, Al Thornton, Vladmir Radmanovic, Josh McRoberts, TJ Ford, Sebastian Telfair, Shane Battier, Carl Landry, Tony Battie, Ji Jianlain.

    I'm not even going to bother/tease and look at restricted free agents (like DeAndre Jordan & Marc Gasol). I doubt we'll be able to pry away an impact player that way, plus we need a few pieces... not just one. BUT, if I had my way.. I would bring in Jordan or Gasol, and that would be it!


    NEEDS: What are our needs? I see it this way:

    -Starting Center
    -Backup PG
    -Wing defender
    -Shooter
    -SIZE

    This is what I would focus on this offseason. How do I bring in 5 players who fill these roles?

    Looks like I can trade for a backup PG, while I can sign a starting C, along with a wing defender... And I should be able to find a shooter/scorer by taking a chance on somebody (ala Shawne Williams).

    Solution: The time has come to wrap it up. What to do? What would you do? What would I do?

    First, the easiest spot to fill: find a shooter/scorer. There has to be somebody from this mix that will sign here on the cheap... have a shot to win. Who from this bunch, huh? We have legit options, risks, and plan-b types:

    JR Smith, Crawford, Richardson, Sessions, Hill, Radmanovic, Ilyasova, Casspi, Michael Redd, Alexander, Wells.

    Get me one of these guys.

    Second, let's find a starting C shall we. Sign Samuel Dalembert, Marc Gasol or DeAndre Jordan. Problem solved! OK, wont be that easy. I would then look at Jeff Foster or Joel Przybilla. If this doesn't work out... then look to beef up PF and check out guys like K-Mart, Evans, Landry, Thomas. Last resort is Jianlain, McRoberts, Brown, Thornton.

    Now we move on the a wing defender. Easy! Stevenson, Battier, Battie or Dahntay Jones.

    You want some size? Jordan or Harrellson, Foster or Evans, along with my Jianlain does the trick.

    Lastly, let's go shopping for a backup PG. Sessions or Ridnour works for me.

    FINALLY... What do you do with our current players? Trade anyone? Billups, Douglas, Fields, Walker? Interesting.

    Imagine if we could just sign DeAndre Jordan, Battier & Battie, then trade for Ridnour! CHAMPIONSHIP!

    But this can't happen. Even with exemptions, we could offer 1 midlevel to a player like Battier... But I'm going to guess we look for a starting C here. So Samuel Dalembert will be a main target.

    NOW, I'm going to be conservative and try to think small, b/c we all can shoot at the moon and play fantasy... but that wont happen.

    My guess... We bring in a guy like Pryzbilla or Foster; Roll the dice and hope a Jianlain, Redd, Wells works out. We will trade Douglas for a PG, or sign a Telfair; and we'll convince a Richardson, Hill, Battier, Battie, Evans, Landry, Kmart or something to sign for some sort of exemption.

    We do have the new BIG-3, so we'll attract some ring-seeking vet, or NY-loving "spotlight" player to sign aboard.

    How would this look like:

    Billups
    Crawford/Jason Richardson/Grant Hill/JR Smith (1 of these)
    Anthony
    Amar'e
    Pryzbilla/Dalembert (1 of these)

    Ridnour, Fields, Shawne, Landry or Evans, Turiaf, Redd or Wells, Foster.

    I know. I prefer:

    Billups
    Crawford
    Anthony
    Amar'e
    Gasol

    Battier, Battie... blah blah blah. Wont happen tho.

    SO... let's say our 2011 roster looks like:

    Billups
    Shumpert
    Anthony
    Amar'e
    Pryzbilla

    I think we trade Douglas for Ridnour or Dragic. Something like that.
    I think we resign Shawne.
    Turiaf.
    Fields.

    This will probably be the first 9-man rotation.

    I hope we look at a Foster, but we probably settle on bringing back Jordan for C #3.

    Anthony Carter or a S-Telfair on bench with C #3 as PG #3. He'll spend a lot of time with Rautins.

    I think Balkman and Walker are dealt as well.

    I think we take a chance with a Wells, Redd or Jianlain.

    Finally, I do hope a Hill or Richardson sign aboard, moving Shumpert out of the rotation (until he earns it).

    That's it folks!
    Last edited by mafra; Jun 25, 2011 at 20:41.

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    Very comprehensive. The main takeaway, I believe, is that some smart, small scale moves can really give us a strong, championship contending team around the nucleus that already exists. Oh, how different our thought processes would be if we'd only gotten to see an entire playoff series of a healthy Billups and Amare.

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    Originally Posted by mafra
    The New York Knicks payroll for the upcoming 2011-2012 season is $64,972,189... and this accounts for only 9 players who are currently under contract on this roster... (50 million of our cap reserved for our "big-3"):

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire, Chauncey Billups, Ronny Turiaf, Ronaldo Balkman, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, Andy Rautins & Landry Fields.

    We just selected 2 players in the draft (Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrellson). We're also considering recalling 7-footer Jerome Jordan. We definitely want to bring back free agent Shawne Williams (and possible Anthony Carter, Shelden Williams & Derrick Brown). I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we let Jared Jeffries walk...

    H-O-W-E-V-E-R... OBVIOUSLY, the salary cap aint going up. If we're lucky the cap is somewhere between 65 and 70 million. I wouldn't count on it though. Sounds like Stern is pushing for a cap slightly beneath where we are right now:

    "In a session Tuesday that NBA commissioner David Stern had labeled critical to the parties' ability to get a new labor contract in place by the current one's June 30 expiration, the owners revealed more specifics from their latest proposal than the union did. One of those was the "flex" salary cap in which a targeted team-payroll amount -- $62 million, Stern said -- would be bracketed by a minimum and a maximum, both still undetermined even in the owners' proposal."

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Anyway, someone else better suited to talk about this stuff (a captologist, if you will) can expound more on the details of what a hard or flex cap means, as well as what sort of possible exemptions will/do/may/might exist that allows the free-spending Dolan to create more space for our beloved Knickerbockers.

    But, suffice to say, our Knicks are stuck between a rock and a water tower. Let's just assume we keep 1 of these 3 "bigs" - Jordan, Williams, Harrellson; we resign Shawne and, of course, we keep Shumpert. I'll be conservative and guess we sign these 3 players for a combined 2.6 million?

    I suspect Mr. Balkman (and his 1.675 mil) is a goner. So, 9-1=8 (+3) gives us 11 players for slightly over 65 million. BUT... a roster like this does what exactly?

    Billups
    Shumpert
    Anthony
    Stoudemire
    Turiaf

    Douglas, Fields, Shawne Williams, Walker, A BIG, Rautins

    Along with this cast... we would probably bring in a guy like B-Wells, J-Alexander, take a gamble on a guy like Vernon Goodridge, and some other creative manuevering... STILL, this isnt good enough. Trades have to be made, and we pray exemptions are available! BUT, most likely, this is what our roster will look like next year.

    TRADES: The problem here... Our tradeable assets (Douglas, Fields, Walker) make about 1 million (give or take). Even if we toss in a Balkman, it still barely adds up to 3 million. SO, what sort of players are out there... whom we could afford to deal for and could be on the block? I would suggest... here's some players I would look at if I were GM:

    Ramon Sessions (4.2 mil), Dahntay Jones (2.7 mil), Luke Ridnour (3.6 mil), Goran Dragic (2.1 mil), DJ Augustine (3.2 mil), Omri Casspi (1.3 mil), Robin Lopez (2.8 mil), Eric Maynor (1.5 mil), Erson Ilyasova (2.5 mil), Carlos Delfino (3.5 mil), Tony Allen (3.1 mil), Will Bynum (3.5).

    FREE AGENCY: The problem here... We just don't have a hole lot of cash available to throw around this summer. Anyway, let's look at some free agents I would target if I were GM:

    Samuel Dalembert, Joel Pryzbilla, Jeff Foster, Kenyon Martin, Reggie Evans, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Michael Redd, Jamal Crawford, Josh Powell, Kwame Brown, Kurth Thomas, DeShawn Stevenson, J.R. Smith, Tayshaun Prince, Al Thornton, Vladmir Radmanovic, Josh McRoberts, TJ Ford, Sebastian Telfair, Shane Battier, Carl Landry, Tony Battie, Ji Jianlain.

    I'm not even going to bother/tease and look at restricted free agents (like DeAndre Jordan & Marc Gasol). I doubt we'll be able to pry away an impact player that way, plus we need a few pieces... not just one. BUT, if I had my way.. I would bring in Jordan or Gasol, and that would be it!


    NEEDS: What are our needs? I see it this way:

    -Starting Center
    -Backup PG
    -Wing defender
    -Shooter
    -SIZE

    This is what I would focus on this offseason. How do I bring in 5 players who fill these roles?

    Looks like I can trade for a backup PG, while I can sign a starting C, along with a wing defender... And I should be able to find a shooter/scorer by taking a chance on somebody (ala Shawne Williams).

    Solution: The time has come to wrap it up. What to do? What would you do? What would I do?

    First, the easiest spot to fill: find a shooter/scorer. There has to be somebody from this mix that will sign here on the cheap... have a shot to win. Who from this bunch, huh? We have legit options, risks, and plan-b types:

    JR Smith, Crawford, Richardson, Sessions, Hill, Radmanovic, Ilyasova, Casspi, Michael Redd, Alexander, Wells.

    Get me one of these guys.

    Second, let's find a starting C shall we. Sign Samuel Dalembert, Marc Gasol or DeAndre Jordan. Problem solved! OK, wont be that easy. I would then look at Jeff Foster or Joel Przybilla. If this doesn't work out... then look to beef up PF and check out guys like K-Mart, Evans, Landry, Thomas. Last resort is Jianlain, McRoberts, Brown, Thornton.

    Now we move on the a wing defender. Easy! Stevenson, Battier, Battie or Dahntay Jones.

    You want some size? Jordan or Harrellson, Foster or Evans, along with my Jianlain does the trick.

    Lastly, let's go shopping for a backup PG. Sessions or Ridnour works for me.

    FINALLY... What do you do with our current players? Trade anyone? Billups, Douglas, Fields, Walker? Interesting.

    Imagine if we could just sign DeAndre Jordan, Battier & Battie, then trade for Ridnour! CHAMPIONSHIP!

    But this can't happen. Even with exemptions, we could offer 1 midlevel to a player like Battier... But I'm going to guess we look for a starting C here. So Samuel Dalembert will be a main target.

    NOW, I'm going to be conservative and try to think small, b/c we all can shoot at the moon and play fantasy... but that wont happen.

    My guess... We bring in a guy like Pryzbilla or Foster; Roll the dice and hope a Jianlain, Redd, Wells works out. We will trade Douglas for a PG, or sign a Telfair; and we'll convince a Richardson, Hill, Battier, Battie, Evans, Landry, Kmart or something to sign for some sort of exemption.

    We do have the new BIG-3, so we'll attract some ring-seeking vet, or NY-loving "spotlight" player to sign aboard.

    How would this look like:

    Billups
    Crawford/Jason Richardson/Grant Hill/JR Smith (1 of these)
    Anthony
    Amar'e
    Pryzbilla/Dalembert (1 of these)

    Ridnour, Fields, Shawne, Landry or Evans, Turiaf, Redd or Wells, Foster.

    I know. I prefer:

    Billups
    Crawford
    Anthony
    Amar'e
    Gasol

    Battier, Battie... blah blah blah. Wont happen tho.

    SO... let's say our 2011 roster looks like:

    Billups
    Shumpert
    Anthony
    Amar'e
    Pryzbilla

    I think we trade Douglas for Ridnour or Dragic. Something like that.
    I think we resign Shawne.
    Turiaf.
    Fields.

    This will probably be the first 9-man rotation.

    I hope we look at a Foster, but we probably settle on bringing back Jordan for C #3.

    Anthony Carter or a S-Telfair on bench with C #3 as PG #3. He'll spend a lot of time with Rautins.

    I think Balkman and Walker are dealt as well.

    I think we take a chance with a Wells, Redd or Jianlain.

    Finally, I do hope a Hill or Richardson sign aboard, moving Shumpert out of the rotation (until he earns it).

    That's it folks!
    good post and i agree 100% shane battier would be a nice pickup

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    Players I'd take a real good look out now to round out the squad:

    • Ben Hansbrough - I honestly believe he could be a good PG in the NBA. I think he's every bit the player Jimmer Fredette is. Didn't get a chance to continue proving it in workouts before the draft because of an ankle injury. Supposedly he worked out for the Nets right before the draft and looked good though. The ankle's now 100% or close to it. Could be the extra PG we seek. At the very least, he's a better player than Andy Rautins. With his shooting, scrappy toughness and underrated PG skills, he'd be a real nice option to complement Shumpert. No guarantee Shumpert ever really develops that outside shot -- he never showed it in his 3 years at Georgia Tech. Having Hansbrough next to Shumpert wouldn't magnify Shumpert's weaknesses all that much and allow him to do the things he does best. I'm shocked we haven't shown any interest in Hansbrough up to this point to be perfectly honest. This guy's got "D'Antoni player" written all over him. I'd also like the Knicks to look at Curtis Jerrells, Curtis Stinson and Sherron Collins.

    • Tim Abromaitis - I think he could be a very good 3 pt shooting specialist in the NBA. His 3 pt shot is really a thing of beauty -- good form with a lightning quick release. Does some other things well too -- at 6'8" he rebounds a little, puts it on the floor and shows a good IQ out on the court. He could take over the Shawne Williams role if Williams isn't retained (so far I haven't heard anything on Williams coming back). Hansbrough and Abromaitis together would go a long way in giving D'Antoni some quality outside shooters he really needs.

    • Joe Alexander or DeShawn Sims - I like Sims a tad more myself, but they're both fine players. Big upside for both guys. We already had Alexander in for a workout. What are we waiting for?? Ink him up now before someone else does. Take the chance. I believe he worked out for the Nuggets right after working out for us and really impressed Denver. Just because he didn't work out in Milwaukee doesn't mean he can't make it in the NBA. Earlier on for Milwaukee, Alexander actually played well. I remember him having a handful of good games..Then he got hurt. When he returned, Scott Skiles never gave him the same opportunity.. Either guy could come in and backup either STAT or Melo..I'd much rather have either of these guys over Jared Jeffries, I can tell you that.

    • Dwayne Jones - I'm not solid on Josh Harrellson at all. Jerome Jordan I think is skilled enough to make the club and be part of the rotation; Harrellson I'm not sure about though. Everything I've read about him is saying he's unskilled and out of shape..I'd bring in one more center for training camp just to see. Jones is a very capable center. Nothing flashy but wherever he's been and gotten ample playing time he's produced, especially in the rebounding column. His senior year at St. Joseph's he averaged a double-double: 10.1 pts/11.6 rebs/3 blks. In 2009-10 for the Austin Toros in the NBDL he averaged 17.6 pts/16.1 rebounds/1.8 blocks. And just last year in China he put up 18 pts/15.8 rebs/1.6 blks. Rebounding still could be a problem for this team. Amar'e, for all he does well, is just not a good rebounder. Simple as that. We're gonna need a center to cover for him. This guy Jones definitely addresses the rebounding problem in a big way. I'm not handing this dude Harrellson anything yet. I say bring in Dwayne Jones and let Harrellson, Jordan and Jones all compete against one another in training camp. The best 2 make the team and compete for mins at the 5 with Turiaf. I could see Dwayne Jones doing the same type of things for us that Tyson Chandler & Brendan Haywood do for Dallas.

    • Matt Bouldin, Sylven Landesberg and AD Vassallo should all get a look as an extra shooting guard.

    I'd also think about this rumored trade with Sacramento involving Toney Douglas. Maybe for Omri Casspi or Donte Greene. Maybe we can also get Sac to throw in Isaiah Thomas too (the small lefty PG from Washington/pick #60 from last Thursday's draft). That really wouldn't be bad value in exchange for Douglas, when you think about it.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 27, 2011 at 08:39.

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    Another ball tearing thread from Mafra.

    Nice and thorough, no stone left unturned.

    I think I'll withhold my own version of a revamp based around our needs until the CBA has announced its terms.

    I did just read that the Knicks are only offering a 1 year deal to any vets in the off-season, so fattening up our most important position, center, looks like it won't go a long way past Turiaf, Harrelson and perhaps Jerome Jordan.

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    Donnie's officially stepped down, what can we possibly do to form a team that Miami and Chicago have to worry about?

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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Another ball tearing thread from Mafra.

    Nice and thorough, no stone left unturned.

    I think I'll withhold my own version of a revamp based around our needs until the CBA has announced its terms.

    I did just read that the Knicks are only offering a 1 year deal to any vets in the off-season, so fattening up our most important position, center, looks like it won't go a long way past Turiaf, Harrelson and perhaps Jerome Jordan.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Donnie's officially stepped down, what can we possibly do to form a team that Miami and Chicago have to worry about?
    What a great Dolan pic. Now that's classic!

    Yeah, I assume we'll try to buy a Troy Murphy of my-YI-gin-Jianlian-a'ling. And also try to convince a Kwame Brown, Kurt Thomas, Muhammed, Foster, Gray type to come for a ride and see what happens.

    I could live with Brown, Foster, Murphy.

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    Ew..ew.. I know....

    Draft Brook Lopez!

    Oh that's right... we can easily find a center.. no problem.

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    Originally Posted by mafra
    What a great Dolan pic. Now that's classic!

    Yeah, I assume we'll try to buy a Troy Murphy of my-YI-gin-Jianlian-a'ling. And also try to convince a Kwame Brown, Kurt Thomas, Muhammed, Foster, Gray type to come for a ride and see what happens.

    I could live with Brown, Foster, Murphy.
    The things we're forced to live with, eh? Sigh.

    Who would have ever thought it would come to this at the start of last season?

    I'd like to know what you and others would attempt with Billups' expiring. Needless to say, it's our one chip as we chase a 'chip. That wanting to know is, of course, with the exclusion of Chris Paul, who I don't think we can afford to obtain considering our comparative salary scape against Miami's. We'll be fighting tooth and nail with them for EC supremacy, hopefully.

    Kwame Brown, btw, would be my choice out of those players. He smells, but he's as close to what we need as we could possibly obtain.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Ew..ew.. I know....

    Draft Brook Lopez!

    Oh that's right... we can easily find a center.. no problem.
    Yep.

    Just what we need...a soft center who can't rebound...SIGN ME UP

    /sarcasm

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    The answer is simple-- Dwight. Howard.

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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    The things we're forced to live with, eh? Sigh.

    Who would have ever thought it would come to this at the start of last season?

    I'd like to know what you and others would attempt with Billups' expiring. Needless to say, it's our one chip as we chase a 'chip. That wanting to know is, of course, with the exclusion of Chris Paul, who I don't think we can afford to obtain considering our comparative salary scape against Miami's. We'll be fighting tooth and nail with them for EC supremacy, hopefully.

    Kwame Brown, btw, would be my choice out of those players. He smells, but he's as close to what we need as we could possibly obtain.
    The best plan as much risk is involved is:

    Acquire as many draft picks as possible... a bevy! Why?

    They're cheap
    We can go over whatever cap with them
    They're tradable (maybe useful in moving up)

    That's our only answer. CP3 WILL NOT FIX our rebounding/defensive problems

    I bet you're saying that's assuming a quality BIG is in the draft...

    My respone if that's what you're thinking is

    That's the next best thing. A stable of 2-3 inexperienced bigs is better than being stuck not affording any or over paying a Przybilla or a Dalembert

    Sure the take time but waiting season after season hoping for a miracle isn't gonna work

    That's our answer... mad draft picks.

    Your thoughts
    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Yep.

    Just what we need...a soft center who can't rebound...SIGN ME UP

    /sarcasm
    Soft? That's because he's a NET! He's better than ANY center we've had since Camby/Ewing

    Don't fool yourself. Amare and co. Would have this dude doing what he needs to do with us. Trust that.

    You are the only one who won't acknowledge how we f*cked up by not taking him. This thread, our situation says different.

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    I can't believe this. Haven't we learned anything watching Mia lose?

    Watching Mem and Dallas win?

    Watching Bos lose without a big.

    Watcing La win with Bigs!

    Watching us struggle without bigs.

    How many instances do we need to see? Really.

    Basketball is a big mans game. Size wins. who's disputing this. Its not the end all gaurentee but without it its futile!

    Not even the best, Jordan or Kobe could win without a valid big contribution. Not a Kareem or Wilt but a valid servicible big.

    All this year after year of garbage with no big... and some still think its not needed. That he will fall in our laps. Its crazy!

    Get a f*cking big!!!!!!! Guards are numerous! Bigs are the hardest to find, quality ones.

    Like in football, why is the left tackle the highest paid? He's the most important and the least praised. In foot ball yu start with the off/def line if you really want to compete.

    In baseball its pitching. You could have all the arods you want- without pitching its useless!

    We can have all the Melos and Amares we can afford, still won't trump a team with quality bigs.

    F*CKING MIA HAD WADE JAMES AND BOSH AND still lost, for Crying out loud! They LOST! THEY HAVE NO BIGS!

    Dal does and won!
    Lakers do and were going for the repeat
    Bos did and won and were 1 game away
    Spurs bigs!
    Mem... f*cking Mem... competed... Bigs!
    Detroit... quality bigs!
    Bigs bigs bigs bigs!!!

    And if we can't afford one it should not be because we are targeting a guard with no plan for a big smh.

    Then we should acquire as many picks as possible until we find a big or we are DOOMED!

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    Originally Posted by Red

    Soft? That's because he's a NET! He's better than ANY center we've had since Camby/Ewing

    Don't fool yourself. Amare and co. Would have this dude doing what he needs to do with us. Trust that.

    You are the only one who won't acknowledge how we f*cked up by not taking him. This thread, our situation says different.
    LMFAO

    The guy grabbed TEN PERCENT of the total rebounds available last year while he was on the floor.

    By comparison, the "SOFT" Chris Bosh grabbed 13.6%...on a team you just slammed for not having enough big bodies in the paint as the reason they lost. The guy we slam for being not good at rebounding on this board, Amare Stoudemire grabbed 12.7%. Meaning what? Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire were more effective rebounders last year than Brook Lopez.

    How about an effective big, like Tyson Chandler last year...a guy who you say was instrumental in Dallas winning? He grabbed 19.7% of total rebounds available last year...Tyson Chandler was TWICE AS EFFECTIVE as Brook Lopez.

    I may be the only one saying it, but facts are facts. Brook Lopez is an awful rebounder that people like you on this board overrate on a consistent basis. He would not be helpful, just another soft center who can't rebound.


    Lopez is soft because he's a Net? What does that even mean? Kris Humphries isn't soft, he's a Net. Deron Williams isn't soft, he's a Net. Brook Lopez is soft b/c he's a 7'2" guy who can't rebound and is SOFT.
    Last edited by KBlack25; Jun 27, 2011 at 14:27.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    LMFAO

    The guy grabbed TEN PERCENT of the total rebounds available last year while he was on the floor.

    By comparison, the "SOFT" Chris Bosh grabbed 13.6%...on a team you just slammed for not having enough big bodies in the paint as the reason they lost. The guy we slam for being not good at rebounding on this board, Amare Stoudemire grabbed 12.7%. Meaning what? Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire were more effective rebounders last year than Brook Lopez.

    How about an effective big, like Tyson Chandler last year...a guy who you say was instrumental in Dallas winning? He grabbed 19.7% of total rebounds available last year...Tyson Chandler was TWICE AS EFFECTIVE as Brook Lopez.

    I may be the only one saying it, but facts are facts. Brook Lopez is an awful rebounder that people like you on this board overrate on a consistent basis. He would not be helpful, just another soft center who can't rebound.


    Lopez is soft because he's a Net? What does that even mean? Kris Humphries isn't soft, he's a Net. Deron Williams isn't soft, he's a Net. Brook Lopez is soft b/c he's a 7'2" guy who can't rebound and is SOFT.
    Yada yada yada....

    Lopez's numbers are RELATIVE TO many factors you have no way of quantifying.

    His team
    His coach
    Their system
    His playing time

    Are just a few. Please don't bother trying to convince me of how everything would be exactly the same in a different situation on a different team. Its useless dribble.

    Bigs take time. Bigs take coaching. Something wemaybe could have accomplished and avoided this conversation all together. Please stop.

    Not to mention what COULD'VE BEEN as a result of having said big. Trades, accomplishments, non draft moves etc...

    Its too much and we'll never know what coul've came about.

    What we do know is we are writing our very on Twilight Zone script.

    The one where we keep running through a house openning doors, only to find ourselves right back where we started wondering what's going on.

    I'll tell you what's going on...

    We and every team is best when incorporating BIGS. SEE Knicks with Ewing or Camby.

    Then see Knicks without Ewing and Camby. Do the math.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Yada yada yada....

    Lopez's numbers are RELATIVE TO many factors you have no way of quantifying.

    His team
    His coach
    Their system
    His playing time

    Are just a few. Please don't bother trying to convince me of how everything would be exactly the same in a different situation on a different team. Its useless dribble.

    Bigs take time. Bigs take coaching. Something wemaybe could have accomplished and avoided this conversation all together. Please stop.

    Not to mention what COULD'VE BEEN as a result of having said big. Trades, accomplishments, non draft moves etc...

    Its too much and we'll never know what coul've came about.

    What we do know is we are writing our very on Twilight Zone script.

    The one where we keep running through a house openning doors, only to find ourselves right back where we started wondering what's going on.

    I'll tell you what's going on...

    We and every team is best when incorporating BIGS. SEE Knicks with Ewing or Camby.

    Then see Knicks without Ewing and Camby. Do the math.
    Blah blah blah blah...

    You're right...we don't know what would have come...

    So don't bother telling me how things would be different for him were he here...it's useless DRIVEL (if you are going to insult my writing, at least use the right word...drivel).

    So how do you know things wouldn't be the same? How do you know they would be different if we drafted him? How do you know he wouldn't still be the soft center that he currently is on the Nets?

    I'm going by the only facts we have:

    That right now, in this moment, Lopez is a soft-center with little to no rebounding capabilities.

    Everything else you posit is mere speculation, unprovable...so explain to me: If I can't say how things would be similar if we drafted him b/c it's too speculative, how can you say in the same breath things would be entirely different and that's not too speculative?

    Lopez's numbers aren't just low.

    They are ABYSMAL for a starting center in this league.

    I'm not saying we don't need a center. I'm saying Brook Lopez wouldn't have solved our problems.

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