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Thread: Some Bullsh*t!

  1. #1
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Default Some Bullsh*t!

    On acquiring a center for 2011-2012...

    The Knicks do not need a new president as much as they need a new starting center.
    With the lockout looming Friday and with outgoing president Donnie Walsh leaving the same day, the Knicks' restocking of their roster from the Carmelo Anthony trade will be on indefinite hold.
    Free agency normally begins July 1, but the impending lockout could last most of the summer and the Knicks' void in the middle will remain.
    Walsh made a very telling remark on the Knicks' free-agency strategy Thursday night following the NBA Draft -- an indication the front office will not do anything to hurt their 2012 salary-cap space when they should have enough room to sign Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard as free agents.


    "Now we have to manage the cap and then the following year (2012), we'll be in great position," Walsh said.
    According to an NBA source, the Knicks are planning on only offering one-year deals this summer to free agents. That will take them out of the pool of prominent free-agent centers, including Samuel Dalembert. Certainly the more marquee players, such as Mavericks champion pivot Tyson Chandler, the Grizzlies' Marc Gasol and Clippers young stud DeAndre Jordan are out of the question.
    There had been debate inside the organization about whether to use the Mavericks championship blueprint, forgoing the three-superstar Miami plan -- that would add Paul -- and breaking up the cap room among three solid pieces rather than a third superstar. They could still do that, but plan to wait until 2012 -- perhaps with a new president -- before deciding. Commissioner David Stern's recent proposal of a $62 million cap - up from $45 million -- gave the Knicks new life on a 2012 bonanza.
    Their one-year-contract edict would still give the Knicks a shot at lower-tier, cheaper centers.
    Kwame Brown is on their radar after having a serviceable season with Charlotte (7.9 points, 6.8 rebounds, 51.7 percent shooting). Michael Jordan's former No. 1 draft bust is 6-11, 270 pounds and though he has hands of stone, he can defend, rebound and block shots -- the only Knicks requirements.
    There are other free-agent centers who could be had for one-year deals that will pique the Knicks' interest -- Tony Battie, ex-Knick veteran Kurt Thomas, who filled in solidly in spots with the Bulls, Joel Pryzbilla, Aaron Gray and ancient Theo Ratliff.
    Even if Greg Oden, who has interest in the Knicks, is not extended a qualifying offer by the Blazers, he is going to command a multi-year deal, according to sources, leaving the Knicks on the outs.
    The only center with a contract for next season is undersized Ronny Turiaf. The Post has learned Turiaf, as expected, exercised the final year of his contract at $4.5 million. He proved injury-prone in missing 18 games last season with chronic knee soreness.
    The Knicks must add more size if they hope to compete for the Eastern Conference title. "We're going to be better than last year," said coach Mike D'Antoni, who will enter his lame-duck season. "We'll have time to come together. Landry [Fields] is going to be better, Toney [Douglas] is going to be better. Iman [Shumpert] and Josh [Harrellson] will help out. We'll have some holes and we'll re-sign people. But we're going to be a better team."
    The Knicks want to re-sign Sixth Man surprise Shawne Williams and possibly veteran point guard Anthony Carter as insurance for Chauncey Billups. But Shelden Williams and Jared Jeffries figure to be goners.
    Owner James Dolan has yet to begin a search for Walsh's replacement. That soon-to-be interim president Glen Grunwald went on the national TV draft telecast Thursday to discuss the Knicks' selection of Shumpert was a good sign he'll be around for a while.
    Grunwald is expected to have Mark Warkentien, John Gabriel and Allan Houston under him. Grunwald, a former Indiana center, is 6-9, but has his work cut out for him in adding a player taller than himself who will make a big impact next season.


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    NO center = count us out for contention next year.

    Way to get things started

  2. #2
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    I say...

    get a viable center now even if he costs $ leading into the "BIG FREE AGENT BONANZA OF 2012"

    establish WINNING, a WINNING CULTURE and giving our core a chance to really compete

    and trade someone if you have to clear space in the event someone better becomes available.


    We cant keep relying on signing a big free agent years from now. We must consider EVERY team thats in our way (just as what happened last year), CHI BOS MIA etc..., will all have shots at acquiring the same players one way or the other.

    Plus the up-and-comers OKC MEM etc... and not to mention the mainstays and champs LAL DAL will and ALWAYS find a way to land the same players we target CP3 D12 DWill etc...

    whether by jettisoning their roster at the last minute or sacrificing their assets. It happens all the time... the swoop in.

    ANd really it comes down to demand and franchise reputation. After competing deep into the playoffs players are convinced some teams like MIA are a player away from winning it all, and some vet's want to latch on.

    We talk Dalembert, the reports say MIA is talking Dalembert. Remember we didnt even expect to be competing with them last year until the final days. D12 is already talking LA. We slept on DWIll.

    So I mean short of having a top 3 draft choice- targeting a player not yet on the market and making decisions based on said player is seeming futile; 50/50 at best.

    Great teams find a way to field the best team possible (based on $ ownership is willing to spend). We've managed to get our cap situation under control.

    Start spending some dough on the right players and establishing a true winning culture so maybe we would have a likelier shot at attracting more talent.

  3. #3
    BALL DON'T LIE MeloforMayor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I say...

    get a viable center now even if he costs $ leading into the "BIG FREE AGENT BONANZA OF 2012"

    establish WINNING, a WINNING CULTURE and giving our core a chance to really compete

    and trade someone if you have to clear space in the event someone better becomes available.


    We cant keep relying on signing a big free agent years from now. We must consider EVERY team thats in our way (just as what happened last year), CHI BOS MIA etc..., will all have shots at acquiring the same players one way or the other.

    Plus the up-and-comers OKC MEM etc... and not to mention the mainstays and champs LAL DAL will and ALWAYS find a way to land the same players we target CP3 D12 DWill etc...

    whether by jettisoning their roster at the last minute or sacrificing their assets. It happens all the time... the swoop in.

    ANd really it comes down to demand and franchise reputation. After competing deep into the playoffs players are convinced some teams like MIA are a player away from winning it all, and some vet's want to latch on.

    We talk Dalembert, the reports say MIA is talking Dalembert. Remember we didnt even expect to be competing with them last year until the final days. D12 is already talking LA. We slept on DWIll.

    So I mean short of having a top 3 draft choice- targeting a player not yet on the market and making decisions based on said player is seeming futile; 50/50 at best.

    Great teams find a way to field the best team possible (based on $ ownership is willing to spend). We've managed to get our cap situation under control.

    Start spending some dough on the right players and establishing a true winning culture so maybe we would have a likelier shot at attracting more talent.
    I agree. The front office's mentality should be win NOW. We already have our core group. The knicks should focus om filling out the holes at each positiin with solid role players.

    The center position must be addressed first. A lot of teams are getting better with gigantic defensive frountcourts. Right now, we don't have a chance against the bigs of Memphis, LA, Oklahoma, Chicago, etc.

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    Despite compelling arguments to the contrary, it sounds like the Knicks leaving themselves open for CP3/Deron/Dwight in 2012 is a foregone conclusion. So, if that's the case, I guess the best we can hope for is the addition of one or two out of the Pryzbilla, Kwame Brown, Kurt Thomas, Jeff Foster pool of guys. Could be worse, definitely could be better.

  5. #5
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    Default goner

    "...But Shelden Williams and Jared Jeffries figure to be goners."

    hurrah!

  6. #6
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    The Melo trade made it next to impossible to be contenders this year regardless of the plan. Even if we were to use the full MLE on a player this summer, we would still need more. We would still need another offseason to add more pieces.

    What I don't get is they mention resigning Williams and Anthony Carter. Signing them makes it impossible to sign a 3rd max. I would hope they offer Shawne and AC more than 1 year deals. Williams deserves better and he may walk if we don't give it to him.

  7. #7
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Yeah... Dolan screwed the whole Walsh plan. Granted, Walsh did a pretty poor job with some of our draft picks (raise your hand if you would prefer Ty Lawson or Brandon Jennings along with Taj Gibson over Jordan Hill and Toney Douglas). Walsh also traded away too many first round picks. Still...

    Because of Dolan... in essence... we are being told... After tanking 2 seasons and preparing for last year... We're now going to just tank another season and hope for another shot-in-the-dark come next year.

    SO, say we pass on Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert & DeAndre Jordan. Say Paul, Deron & Howard refuse to come here. Then what?

    Stoudemire's window wont be open that long (anybody notice Amar'e got hurt in the first half of Game 2 and disappeared against BOS). Who in their right mind expects Stoudemire to pull a DIRK and be ready to battle for 2 months... for 4 series... to get 16 wins over a possible 28 games come 2013?

    The whole idea should be to build a winner RIGHT NOW.

    Tough call. Not like we have much cap space. 50 million is tied up in 3 players. We have 65 million and only 9 players on the roster (without signing a draft pick, Jordan or Shawne Williams).

    Kwame Brown, trade for Sessions or Ridnour, and convince a guy like Jason Richardson or Grant HIll to sign a 1-year deal? Take a gamble on Redd or Wells?

    This is our plan?

    OH WELL. We can enjoy a 50-win season. Then watch us get swept in the 2nd round?

    I KNOW. A HEALTHY Billups and Amar'e is what we need most. If they STAY HEALTHY, and we add a Kwame Brown and a Jeff Foster, along with a few other shrewd moves... should be enough.

    Still, imagine if Carmelo simply waited...

  8. #8
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Still, imagine if Carmelo simply waited...
    PG-Felton
    SG-Fields
    SF-Melo
    PF-Amare
    C-Mozgov

    w/ Gallo, Douglas, Williams and Turiaf off the bench.

    Superstars AND depth. Goddamn. That team would have been better than Miami. Contending for a championship this year.

  9. #9
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    The Melo trade made it next to impossible to be contenders this year regardless of the plan.
    Exactly and not only salary-wise.

  10. #10
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    The Melo trade made it next to impossible to be contenders this year regardless of the plan. Even if we were to use the full MLE on a player this summer, we would still need more. We would still need another offseason to add more pieces.

    What I don't get is they mention resigning Williams and Anthony Carter. Signing them makes it impossible to sign a 3rd max. I would hope they offer Shawne and AC more than 1 year deals. Williams deserves better and he may walk if we don't give it to him.
    Williams was quoted as saying that the Knicks won't have to break the bank. No word of other teams generating any interest in him. Carter will likely only be offered vet-minimum from any other team. Hopefully these 2 can be had for under $2M.

    Originally Posted by mafra
    Yeah... Dolan screwed the whole Walsh plan. Granted, Walsh did a pretty poor job with some of our draft picks (raise your hand if you would prefer Ty Lawson or Brandon Jennings along with Taj Gibson over Jordan Hill and Toney Douglas). Walsh also traded away too many first round picks. Still...

    Because of Dolan... in essence... we are being told... After tanking 2 seasons and preparing for last year... We're now going to just tank another season and hope for another shot-in-the-dark come next year.

    SO, say we pass on Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert & DeAndre Jordan. Say Paul, Deron & Howard refuse to come here. Then what?

    Stoudemire's window wont be open that long (anybody notice Amar'e got hurt in the first half of Game 2 and disappeared against BOS). Who in their right mind expects Stoudemire to pull a DIRK and be ready to battle for 2 months... for 4 series... to get 16 wins over a possible 28 games come 2013?

    The whole idea should be to build a winner RIGHT NOW.

    Tough call. Not like we have much cap space. 50 million is tied up in 3 players. We have 65 million and only 9 players on the roster (without signing a draft pick, Jordan or Shawne Williams).

    Kwame Brown, trade for Sessions or Ridnour, and convince a guy like Jason Richardson or Grant HIll to sign a 1-year deal? Take a gamble on Redd or Wells?

    This is our plan?

    OH WELL. We can enjoy a 50-win season. Then watch us get swept in the 2nd round?

    I KNOW. A HEALTHY Billups and Amar'e is what we need most. If they STAY HEALTHY, and we add a Kwame Brown and a Jeff Foster, along with a few other shrewd moves... should be enough.

    Still, imagine if Carmelo simply waited...
    Every day. Every day I imagine he did. Though I've come to like him more as the game winners and big outings accumulate, I still resent the means in which he got what he wanted, and what he wanted most can't be counted in the win column.

    And you're absolutely right. We need to build a winner RIGHT NOW. Active f'ing immediately. Miami are 3 players away from being the best team in the league. Chicago are one trade away from a perfect Larry O'Brien blueprint. We have a 4 year window to match these 2 teams.

    I'm an advocate of not pursuing Chris Paul in order to establish the championship orthodox: size, depth, defence and a real, tried and true traditional offence. TTTO.

    A 4th year of relying on both D'Antoni and the unforeseeable - basically the outcome of trading Billups' contract - will have us spiralling toward being the 2000s Atlanta V2. That **** will not fly in NYC.

  11. #11
    Veteran StEpHoN_mArBuRy's Avatar
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    Smh.. I don't blame Melo for wanting his money but yeah if he waited we would've been pretty damn deep.. and good..

  12. #12
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Positioning ourselves to get Chris Paul either in a trade or through FA in the summer of 2012 is the smartest thing we can do. None of these centers we can get now will mean more than getting a player of Paul's caliber. Walsh is doing the prudent thing and I hope Grunwald follows through.

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