Kind of Dissapointed we passed up Faried...

STAT1

STAT1

Starter
SSj4Wingzero said:
I do agree that we need more depth in the frontcourt especially a better backup C since Turiaf can only play like 20 minutes a night, but you can't deny that having Shumpert at SG looks better than having Fields at SG and having Kenneth Faried.
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I disagree, I would much rather have Fields & Faried gobbling up rebounds left & right & running the fastbreak than relegating Fields to the bench & having no quality backups for STAT in the frontcourt at all. I believe denying 2nd chance pts to other teams is also a good way to strengthen your defense.

Personally I'm not even sure he's all that much of an upgrade over Toney Douglas. Fields, who struggled bigtime since Melo's arrival, was still a top 2 or 3 ROY candidate for much of the season last year. What makes you think Shumpert will be an upgrade over him? Defensively yes, I believe he would be, but he would also make us a smaller starting 5 than we already are in the process. Unless our plan is to trade Fields (which I would have no problem with) then all you're really doing by putting him in a bench role is weakening our already weak point. Not sure how that really helps our team improve all that much.
 
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SSj4Wingzero

All Star
And what makes you think Kenneth Faried would have been a quality backup for Amar'e? Faried is too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA. He'd serve as an offensively-crappy backup for Carmelo, at best.

Instead of having Kenneth Faried back up Carmelo and having crappy defense in the backcourt because Fields, as competent a player as he is, isn't quick enough to guard the 2 position reliably, having Shumpert allows us to not only improve our backcourt defense (which we all agree is a huge weakness) but also improve our backup at SF (better backup for Carmelo in the form of Landry Fields).

Having Faried addresses our rebounding needs when Carmelo/Amar'e is off the floor but does nothing to address the fact that our backcourt gets constantly abused by any team with a half decent 2 guard who can take the ball to the basket. I'm tired of seeing the likes of Nick Young and Louis Williams embarrass us. We need a shooting guard who can play lockdown defense, we've needed that for a long time, and having a guy like Iman Shumpert who can fill the Tony Allen role on our team is going to be pivotal.

While having Shumpert, we can fix our backcourt defense AS WELL AS have a decent 2nd unit in the front court by giving Landry Fields the primary 6th man spot behind Carmelo. It improves our team because:

1. Our backcourt defense is no longer shit
2. Our frontcourt has a decent backup on offense when Carmelo is resting on the bench.

If you put Kenneth Faried on this team we're going to score shit for points when Faried is on the floor. If we put Shumpert on this team we get better defense in the backcourt from our starting lineup AS WELL AS, because we shift Fields to the 2nd unit, a better offensive team when Carmelo is resting. Plus we have a player like Fields who can rebound as well as Carmelo can.

At the end of the day though, we both recognize this team has some serious problems - backcourt defense, depth at the forward positions, and REBOUNDING.

And the reality of the matter is the only thing that will solve our rebounding woes is a CENTER. A HALF-DECENT Center who can rebound and block a shot here or there. Kenneth Faried is not that guy.

But you know what the WORST problem of all is?

This all could have been solved if the Knicks just kept COREY BREWER!

Seriously! Brewer is an excellent athlete who is also an excellent defender. He could have been the PERFECT player to play behind Carmelo, then we could have drafted Shumpert and traded him or drafted Shumpert, put him in the starting lineup, and traded Fields for a bigger guy who could play behind Amar'e. I still think waiving Corey Brewer is going to bite us in the ass because I thought he was going to be the unsung hero of the Carmelo trade - instead he gets waived because he doesn't shoot 3's so Mike D will never play him. Instead he'd rather play Roger Mason Jr. Wow.
 
keyser soze

keyser soze

Benchwarmer
SSj4Wingzero said:
And what makes you think Kenneth Faried would have been a quality backup for Amar'e? Faried is too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA. He'd serve as an offensively-crappy backup for Carmelo, at best.

Instead of having Kenneth Faried back up Carmelo and having crappy defense in the backcourt because Fields, as competent a player as he is, isn't quick enough to guard the 2 position reliably, having Shumpert allows us to not only improve our backcourt defense (which we all agree is a huge weakness) but also improve our backup at SF (better backup for Carmelo in the form of Landry Fields).

Having Faried addresses our rebounding needs when Carmelo/Amar'e is off the floor but does nothing to address the fact that our backcourt gets constantly abused by any team with a half decent 2 guard who can take the ball to the basket. I'm tired of seeing the likes of Nick Young and Louis Williams embarrass us. We need a shooting guard who can play lockdown defense, we've needed that for a long time, and having a guy like Iman Shumpert who can fill the Tony Allen role on our team is going to be pivotal.

While having Shumpert, we can fix our backcourt defense AS WELL AS have a decent 2nd unit in the front court by giving Landry Fields the primary 6th man spot behind Carmelo. It improves our team because:

1. Our backcourt defense is no longer shit
2. Our frontcourt has a decent backup on offense when Carmelo is resting on the bench.

If you put Kenneth Faried on this team we're going to score shit for points when Faried is on the floor. If we put Shumpert on this team we get better defense in the backcourt from our starting lineup AS WELL AS, because we shift Fields to the 2nd unit, a better offensive team when Carmelo is resting. Plus we have a player like Fields who can rebound as well as Carmelo can.

At the end of the day though, we both recognize this team has some serious problems - backcourt defense, depth at the forward positions, and REBOUNDING.

And the reality of the matter is the only thing that will solve our rebounding woes is a CENTER. A HALF-DECENT Center who can rebound and block a shot here or there. Kenneth Faried is not that guy.

But you know what the WORST problem of all is?

This all could have been solved if the Knicks just kept COREY BREWER!

Seriously! Brewer is an excellent athlete who is also an excellent defender. He could have been the PERFECT player to play behind Carmelo, then we could have drafted Shumpert and traded him or drafted Shumpert, put him in the starting lineup, and traded Fields for a bigger guy who could play behind Amar'e. I still think waiving Corey Brewer is going to bite us in the ass because I thought he was going to be the unsung hero of the Carmelo trade - instead he gets waived because he doesn't shoot 3's so Mike D will never play him. Instead he'd rather play Roger Mason Jr. Wow.
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Why does everyone on this board overrate Brewer so much? Is there something I'm missing? He was a decent rotational player on one of the 2 or 3 worst teams in basketball and after we cut him, he became a full-time bench-warmer in Dallas. He's a small forward who couldn't make a jumpshot if his life depended on it and couldn't get playing time backing up a 33 year old Shawn Marion. How much playing time was he ever really getting behind STAT and MElO?

Shumpert, on the other hand, isn't a forward playing behind two all-stars and has the potential to be our future pg someday or at least be our backup pg and play meaningful minutes. I just don't get the infatuation everyone has with brewer.
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
keyser soze said:
Why does everyone on this board overrate Brewer so much? Is there something I'm missing? He was a decent rotational player on one of the 2 or 3 worst teams in basketball and after we cut him, he became a full-time bench-warmer in Dallas. He's a small forward who couldn't make a jumpshot if his life depended on it and couldn't get playing time backing up a 33 year old Shawn Marion. How much playing time was he ever really getting behind STAT and MElO?

Shumpert, on the other hand, isn't a forward playing behind two all-stars and has the potential to be our future pg someday or at least be our backup pg and play meaningful minutes. I just don't get the infatuation everyone has with brewer.
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1. Brewer could have been a lockdown defender.
2. Nobody's infatuated with Brewer, we're more just wondering why we dumped him and kept Roger Mason Jr. of all people.
 
STAT1

STAT1

Starter
SSj4Wingzero said:
And what makes you think Kenneth Faried would have been a quality backup for Amar'e? Faried is too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA. He'd serve as an offensively-crappy backup for Carmelo, at best.
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The fact that he averaged 17 pts. 15 rebounds, 2 steals & 2 blocks a game while also shooting 62% from the floor last year makes me think he could be a nice backup to STAT.

As for being too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA, that's nonsense. Do you really want me to run down a list of NBA PF's 6'8" & under that have had lots of success at the NBA level? Come on now. Hell I'd be fine with having Faried turn into a JYD clone in his prime, someone that can ignite the crowd with his hustle & energy & wake up the team when they're playing with no fire & desire as Clyde would say. You simply cannot teach the type of motor & hustle that Faried has in his game. Guys can learn how to shoot the rock & practice taking jumpers, but they can't teach heart, & I believe Faried has it. Now I could be way off on my estimation of this kid but from what I've seen I think he's gonna be a nice player in the NBA. I don't see a Renaldo Balkman clone at all. I think he could have filled that Shawn Marion role in this MDA offense, grab rebounds, run the break, finish, defend, block shots, make hustle plays. I think we need a player like that.

Now I don't think Shumpert will be a bum by any means, but I have more questions & misgivings about his role on this team, & how much of an impact he will actually have. I hope my worries are unfounded. I hope he ends up being the next John Starks (my favorite Knick of alltime). I will be rooting for him.
 
keyser soze

keyser soze

Benchwarmer
SSj4Wingzero said:
1. Brewer could have been a lockdown defender.
2. Nobody's infatuated with Brewer, we're more just wondering why we dumped him and kept Roger Mason Jr. of all people.
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I agree on both points but I don't see how either negates my point. Brewer is extremely limited offensively, and unless you are a big, it's hard to be THAT limited offensively and get significant minutes. Again, he got virtually no playing time in Dallas, a team running a defense-first system under Carlisle, and they gave him a 3 year 8 million dollar deal (i think) to boot - so had very incentive to play him. I agree that we should have kept him over Roger Mason Jr. but it's just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and has absolutely no bearing on the validity of the Shumpert pick one way or another (as some have suggested it does)
 
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SSj4Wingzero

All Star
1. Even if we got Kenneth Faried Mike D will not play him. Can't shoot 3's, and Mike D would rather run Amar'e out there for 42 minutes a game than play Kenneth Faried. At least when it comes to Shumpert he doesn't really have any other choice.

2. Brewer didn't get playing time in Dallas because he joined Dallas with like 3 months left in the season. Also a player like Corey Brewer is more of a regular-season guy than a guy you really use a lot in the playoffs. In the playoffs because you have more days off you can use a shorter rotation, whereas in the regular season you need more depth because you don't have as much time off and you need to rest your stars for the postseason.
 
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