Kind of Dissapointed we passed up Faried...

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SSj4Wingzero

All Star
moneyg said:
i would have like to buy a 1st round pick and draft faried along with iman at 17.. i can only assume that td will be traded at some point to shore up the center position possibly to PHX for lopez
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Could've been an interesting idea. But how much time would Faried have gotten on this team playing behind Amar'e and Carmelo?

Answer: 8 minutes a game, if that.

The sad thing is Faried, because of his height, cannot play Center. Period. I don't care HOW hard you hustle, you can't play C when you're 6'7. Doesn't mean you can't be a good rebounder, but you can't play Center, so that would have relegated Faried to 7 minutes a game. Would have been a waste of a pick.

There's also the chance that Kenneth Faried turns out to be the next Renaldo Balkman. Not saying he's inherently unskilled, but there are reasons the Knicks didn't draft him, the most important one being that he would not have been able to make an impact on a team like ours which has two All-NBA Forwards. At least Shumpert will be able to get time in.

I don't know why so many Knicks fans are STILL upset. I was upset too but that's before I learned about Shumpert's game and what he has to bring to the table. How the hell can the Knicks be upset when for the first time in ages we actually did something to address the fact that our backcourt defense has been a joke for the past 5 years?

We draft a defensive minded player in Iman Shumpert because our backcourt defense last year was a joke and Knicks fans are mad because we didn't pick a guy who would've played 8 minutes a game?

Faried has potential but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to pick him. Same with Chris Singleton, or any forward in the draft (there were no good C's).
 
STAT1

STAT1

Starter
SSj4Wingzero said:
Could've been an interesting idea. But how much time would Faried have gotten on this team playing behind Amar'e and Carmelo?

Answer: 8 minutes a game, if that.
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If a scrub like Jared Jeffries can average 19 mpg playing behind STAT & Melo last year on the Knicks, then I have to believe a kid like Faried wouldn't have a problem getting his share of minutes either. That is, if MDA was capable of seeing any other player in the role he so vehemently reserved for his favorite role player in the world (why on God's green Earth he had such an unnatural infatuation with Jared Jeffries is 1 of the mysteries of the universe that shall never be answered)
 
M

moneyg

Starter
SSj4Wingzero said:
Could've been an interesting idea. But how much time would Faried have gotten on this team playing behind Amar'e and Carmelo?

Answer: 8 minutes a game, if that.

The sad thing is Faried, because of his height, cannot play Center. Period. I don't care HOW hard you hustle, you can't play C when you're 6'7. Doesn't mean you can't be a good rebounder, but you can't play Center, so that would have relegated Faried to 7 minutes a game. Would have been a waste of a pick.

There's also the chance that Kenneth Faried turns out to be the next Renaldo Balkman. Not saying he's inherently unskilled, but there are reasons the Knicks didn't draft him, the most important one being that he would not have been able to make an impact on a team like ours which has two All-NBA Forwards. At least Shumpert will be able to get time in.

I don't know why so many Knicks fans are STILL upset. I was upset too but that's before I learned about Shumpert's game and what he has to bring to the table. How the hell can the Knicks be upset when for the first time in ages we actually did something to address the fact that our backcourt defense has been a joke for the past 5 years?

We draft a defensive minded player in Iman Shumpert because our backcourt defense last year was a joke and Knicks fans are mad because we didn't pick a guy who would've played 8 minutes a game?

Faried has potential but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to pick him. Same with Chris Singleton, or any forward in the draft (there were no good C's).
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true but considering we dont have a backup pf.. he could of backed up STAT...he would of been most effective next to an offensive center like jerome jordan.. if you put faried in with JJ and melo with shumpet and td.. i think that would of been a good backup unit.....
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Yes if we got Shumpert AND Faried that would've been a good defensive unit.

But if we only had to pick one, I'd probably go with Shumpert. We have absolutely NO defense in our backcourt especially at the 2 guard position...
 
STAT1

STAT1

Starter
We should probably make a trade then because right now we have 6 G's under contract for next season with Chauncey, Shumpert, Douglas, Fields, Walker & Rautins. We have very little depth up front. If Turiaf gets hurt (which he always does) then we have STAT, Jorts & whatever scrubs we scrounge up on minimum level contracts. We really need to sign another big using our MLE this summer (if there is one).
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
I agree. A good starting center would be great but we could get by with a platoon of C's - Turiaf for 15-20 minutes a night and Kwame Brown for 20-25 minutes a night would be two guys to have at C. Turiaf is a good hustle player and Kwame can rebound, block shots, and run the floor...

I see Kwame Brown kind of like our version of Kendrick Perkins - he doesn't have good hands, but he can rebound and is athletic. Not to mention he can also block shots...Kwame + Turiaf playing C with Amar'e and Melo manning the 2 Forward spots?

PG - Billups
SG - Shumpert (Donnie Walsh said the Knicks would consider using Shumpert as the PG and Billups as the SG but Shumpert would guard the SG and Billups the PG)
SF - Carmelo
PF - Amar'e
C - Kwame Brown

G - Toney Douglas
G - Bill Walker
G - Rautins
G/F - Landry Fields
F - Balkman (lol)
C - Turiaf
C - Jorts

Yes I agree we could use some depth up front. Maybe trading Bill Walker and Andy Rautins, or something like that. I think Landry Fields is more of a 6th man serving as a backup SG/SF than he is a starting SG...we'll see, though. I think they have potential, but I do agree having a good backup PF is something this team could definitely use.
 
M

moneyg

Starter
SSj4Wingzero said:
Yes if we got Shumpert AND Faried that would've been a good defensive unit.

But if we only had to pick one, I'd probably go with Shumpert. We have absolutely NO defense in our backcourt especially at the 2 guard position...
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agreed.. one of the knocks i had on the draft was ...we didnt buy a first rounder to get faried....we should have.. i would of rathered that than jorts in the second round.. we have the money.. and teams were willing .. so why didnt we make it happen????
 
K

KBlack25

Starter
moneyg said:
agreed.. one of the knocks i had on the draft was ...we didnt buy a first rounder to get faried....we should have.. i would of rathered that than jorts in the second round.. we have the money.. and teams were willing .. so why didnt we make it happen????
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How do you know teams were willing?

And, even if they were willing, that doesn't mean the cost would have been reasonable...
 
M

Marek

Benchwarmer
STAT1 said:
If a scrub like Jared Jeffries can average 19 mpg playing behind STAT & Melo last year on the Knicks, then I have to believe a kid like Faried wouldn't have a problem getting his share of minutes either.
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Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because one scrub got minutes doesn't mean another should just because you like him better.

I'll echo what has already been said: Faried is not a center, is too slow for the 3, and too small for the 4.

People think that just because he's a strong rebounder and was a good shot blocker in college, he will be a good low post defender in the NBA. I don't see it. Remember, David Lee's defense sucks, and Amare's Top-5 blocks in the NBA doesn't make him good at defense. And Faried is undersized. It would take years (if ever) to learn the tricks that small 4's and 5's like Rodman and Ben Wallace used to guard Shaq.

And speaking of Rodman and Ben Wallace...please don't mention Faried in the same sentence as those guys. In order to have that great of a career with such a one dimensional game, you need to be AMAZING at what you do. You can't predict that kind of career. Odds are Faried will be a career role player off the bench, frequently subbed out due to match-up issues or lack of offensive competency.

I'm absolutely BAFFLED why so many people are falling in love with this guy.
6'7 PF with no offense. He's a nice player, but really not worth the passionate regrets about NY's draft choice.
 
MSGhobo247

MSGhobo247

Rotation player
Marek said:
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because one scrub got minutes doesn't mean another should just because you like him better.

I'll echo what has already been said: Faried is not a center, is too slow for the 3, and too small for the 4.

People think that just because he's a strong rebounder and was a good shot blocker in college, he will be a good low post defender in the NBA. I don't see it. Remember, David Lee's defense sucks, and Amare's Top-5 blocks in the NBA doesn't make him good at defense. And Faried is undersized. It would take years (if ever) to learn the tricks that small 4's and 5's like Rodman and Ben Wallace used to guard Shaq.

And speaking of Rodman and Ben Wallace...please don't mention Faried in the same sentence as those guys. In order to have that great of a career with such a one dimensional game, you need to be AMAZING at what you do. You can't predict that kind of career. Odds are Faried will be a career role player off the bench, frequently subbed out due to match-up issues or lack of offensive competency.

I'm absolutely BAFFLED why so many people are falling in love with this guy.
6'7 PF with no offense. He's a nice player, but really not worth the passionate regrets about NY's draft choice.
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Thank you.
 
M

moneyg

Starter
KBlack25 said:
How do you know teams were willing?

And, even if they were willing, that doesn't mean the cost would have been reasonable...
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because other teams bought first round picks and the most you can pay for a first rounder is 3 mil.. which is reasonable considering our payroll is no longer 100 mil.. and our owner is a billionaire....
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
...Again, how do you know other teams would have given us a first-rounder?

Other teams hate dealing with the Knicks. Most likely they're smart enough to know that giving Donnie Walsh two first-rounders is a death sentence for the rest of the league when the team already has Amar'e and Carmelo and Billups.
 
M

moneyg

Starter
SSj4Wingzero said:
...Again, how do you know other teams would have given us a first-rounder?

Other teams hate dealing with the Knicks. Most likely they're smart enough to know that giving Donnie Walsh two first-rounders is a death sentence for the rest of the league when the team already has Amar'e and Carmelo and Billups.
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did any other teams buy a first round pick??????

its a simple question....
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
No. No first-round pick was traded on draft night for cash considerations only. They all involved giving up a pick from a later draft, or swapping picks, or something like that. Sometimes you luck out (when we gave up a second rounder and cash for the Lakers' 1st rounder to get Toney Douglas) but this year I don't think it was worth it because there wasn't that much talent in this draft.
 
K

KBlack25

Starter
moneyg said:
because other teams bought first round picks and the most you can pay for a first rounder is 3 mil.. which is reasonable considering our payroll is no longer 100 mil.. and our owner is a billionaire....
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No other team bought a first rounder to my knowledge...and even if they did that doesn't mean they were selling to NY.
 
K

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Faried can't play the five, so I really don't see how he would get enough minutes backing up Stat or Melo, and be effective.
 
STAT1

STAT1

Starter
Marek said:
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because one scrub got minutes doesn't mean another should just because you like him better.

I'll echo what has already been said: Faried is not a center, is too slow for the 3, and too small for the 4.

People think that just because he's a strong rebounder and was a good shot blocker in college, he will be a good low post defender in the NBA. I don't see it. Remember, David Lee's defense sucks, and Amare's Top-5 blocks in the NBA doesn't make him good at defense. And Faried is undersized. It would take years (if ever) to learn the tricks that small 4's and 5's like Rodman and Ben Wallace used to guard Shaq.

And speaking of Rodman and Ben Wallace...please don't mention Faried in the same sentence as those guys. In order to have that great of a career with such a one dimensional game, you need to be AMAZING at what you do. You can't predict that kind of career. Odds are Faried will be a career role player off the bench, frequently subbed out due to match-up issues or lack of offensive competency.

I'm absolutely BAFFLED why so many people are falling in love with this guy.
6'7 PF with no offense. He's a nice player, but really not worth the passionate regrets about NY's draft choice.
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Dude that "2 wrongs don't make a right" argument is retarded. The fact is that SOMEONE is going to get those minutes, regardless if it's a scrub like Jeffries or someone else. Turiaf is a gimply player, always gets injured after playing sustained minutes. STAT is not going to be playing 48 minutes a game & neither is Melo, & who knows what Jorts will be able to contribute next season? Regardless if you have a starting C & PF, you still need a quality backup to play extended minutes behind those guys, regardless if it's at the 5 or at the backup 4. Who's going to play those minutes that Jeffries played last year for us right now? Any idea? Cuz those minutes need to be filled one way or the other.

I'm curious, what makes Shumpert that much better of a draft pick in your eyes?
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Shumpert is going to be a starting SG for us. Faried would've played 8 minutes a game.

We do need a backup PF but wouldn't you say a starting SG is more important? Especially since this allows us to make better use of Fields who, although he filled in OK at SG last season, is really more of a 6th man anyway?

Fields will grab more rebounds playing backup to Carmelo as the 6th man than he would as starting SG. I think Fields will come into his own and I think having Shumpert in our backcourt is going to increase our backcourt defense dramatically. Shumpert will be able to cover Dwyane Wade and LeBron James better than anybody else we currently have.

PG - Billups
SG - Shumpert
SF - Carmelo
PF - Amar'e
C - Turiaf

G - Douglas
G - Walker
G - Rautins
G/F - Fields
F - Balkman
F - Shawne Williams?
C - ??

I do agree that we need more depth in the frontcourt especially a better backup C since Turiaf can only play like 20 minutes a night, but you can't deny that having Shumpert at SG looks better than having Fields at SG and having Kenneth Faried. If we had Faried we'd have a good backup for Amar'e playing 10 minutes a game rebounding but we'd still have to address the fact that we have 48 minutes of ZERO DEFENSE in our backcourt. I think Donnie went after what he thought was the bigger problem which was our lack of a SG and any defense in the backcourt
 
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M

Marek

Benchwarmer
STAT1 said:
Dude that "2 wrongs don't make a right" argument is retarded. The fact is that SOMEONE is going to get those minutes, regardless if it's a scrub like Jeffries or someone else.
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Your entire argument is based on "someone has to get those minutes." Why does it have to be Faried? The Knicks saw Shumpert to be a great fit for this team and he fills a need. So they passed on Faried. Big deal. Faried is not irreplaceable. He's a commodity-type of player. You can find plenty of guys in the "3-4 'tweener backup who rebounds cuz he sucks at everything else" category. That's all he is until he proves otherwise.
 
STAT1

STAT1

Starter
Marek said:
Your entire argument is based on "someone has to get those minutes." Why does it have to be Faried? The Knicks saw Shumpert to be a great fit for this team and he fills a need. So they passed on Faried. Big deal. Faried is not irreplaceable. He's a commodity-type of player. You can find plenty of guys in the "3-4 'tweener backup who rebounds cuz he sucks at everything else" category. That's all he is until he proves otherwise.
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I never said it HAD to be Faried. I said it didn't make sense to me to ignore our obvious need in the frontcourt at the pick to take a guy who plays a position that we already have 5 other guys under contract playing this season. Faried is not the only big that was available when it was our turn to pick. Instead we chose to take Shumpert, a guy who plays the same position as 5 other guys on the roster. If he's so good that we absolutely couldn't pass up the chance to draft him that's fine by me, but when you're projected as a 2nd round pick it's hard for you or anyone else to make the case that he was the obvious choice.

All I know is we needed a rebounder in the frontcourt in a bad way. Rebounding was a key weakness all of last season, & still is. Seems to make sense to me to draft the best rebounder available, & that was Faried. This kid averaged 17 pts. 15 rebounds, 2 steals & 2 blocks a game while also shooting 62% from the floor his senior year, albeit for a small name school. Still, those are not numbers to sneeze at. & That was not a fluke season either, he dominated the boards all 4 years he played college ball. I don't see how people can automatically presume that he would be nothing more than a 6-8 mpg specialty player off the bench while Iman Shumpert, who only really had 1 good year out of 3 at the college level & averaged 39% shooting from the floor during that span, will automatically be a quality starting SG at the NBA level.
 
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