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Thread: Kind of Dissapointed we passed up Faried...

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    How do you know teams were willing?

    And, even if they were willing, that doesn't mean the cost would have been reasonable...

    because other teams bought first round picks and the most you can pay for a first rounder is 3 mil.. which is reasonable considering our payroll is no longer 100 mil.. and our owner is a billionaire....

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    ...Again, how do you know other teams would have given us a first-rounder?

    Other teams hate dealing with the Knicks. Most likely they're smart enough to know that giving Donnie Walsh two first-rounders is a death sentence for the rest of the league when the team already has Amar'e and Carmelo and Billups.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    ...Again, how do you know other teams would have given us a first-rounder?

    Other teams hate dealing with the Knicks. Most likely they're smart enough to know that giving Donnie Walsh two first-rounders is a death sentence for the rest of the league when the team already has Amar'e and Carmelo and Billups.
    did any other teams buy a first round pick??????

    its a simple question....

  4. #34
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    No. No first-round pick was traded on draft night for cash considerations only. They all involved giving up a pick from a later draft, or swapping picks, or something like that. Sometimes you luck out (when we gave up a second rounder and cash for the Lakers' 1st rounder to get Toney Douglas) but this year I don't think it was worth it because there wasn't that much talent in this draft.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    because other teams bought first round picks and the most you can pay for a first rounder is 3 mil.. which is reasonable considering our payroll is no longer 100 mil.. and our owner is a billionaire....
    No other team bought a first rounder to my knowledge...and even if they did that doesn't mean they were selling to NY.

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    Faried can't play the five, so I really don't see how he would get enough minutes backing up Stat or Melo, and be effective.

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    Originally Posted by Marek
    Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because one scrub got minutes doesn't mean another should just because you like him better.

    I'll echo what has already been said: Faried is not a center, is too slow for the 3, and too small for the 4.

    People think that just because he's a strong rebounder and was a good shot blocker in college, he will be a good low post defender in the NBA. I don't see it. Remember, David Lee's defense sucks, and Amare's Top-5 blocks in the NBA doesn't make him good at defense. And Faried is undersized. It would take years (if ever) to learn the tricks that small 4's and 5's like Rodman and Ben Wallace used to guard Shaq.

    And speaking of Rodman and Ben Wallace...please don't mention Faried in the same sentence as those guys. In order to have that great of a career with such a one dimensional game, you need to be AMAZING at what you do. You can't predict that kind of career. Odds are Faried will be a career role player off the bench, frequently subbed out due to match-up issues or lack of offensive competency.

    I'm absolutely BAFFLED why so many people are falling in love with this guy.
    6'7 PF with no offense. He's a nice player, but really not worth the passionate regrets about NY's draft choice.
    Dude that "2 wrongs don't make a right" argument is retarded. The fact is that SOMEONE is going to get those minutes, regardless if it's a scrub like Jeffries or someone else. Turiaf is a gimply player, always gets injured after playing sustained minutes. STAT is not going to be playing 48 minutes a game & neither is Melo, & who knows what Jorts will be able to contribute next season? Regardless if you have a starting C & PF, you still need a quality backup to play extended minutes behind those guys, regardless if it's at the 5 or at the backup 4. Who's going to play those minutes that Jeffries played last year for us right now? Any idea? Cuz those minutes need to be filled one way or the other.

    I'm curious, what makes Shumpert that much better of a draft pick in your eyes?

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    Shumpert is going to be a starting SG for us. Faried would've played 8 minutes a game.

    We do need a backup PF but wouldn't you say a starting SG is more important? Especially since this allows us to make better use of Fields who, although he filled in OK at SG last season, is really more of a 6th man anyway?

    Fields will grab more rebounds playing backup to Carmelo as the 6th man than he would as starting SG. I think Fields will come into his own and I think having Shumpert in our backcourt is going to increase our backcourt defense dramatically. Shumpert will be able to cover Dwyane Wade and LeBron James better than anybody else we currently have.

    PG - Billups
    SG - Shumpert
    SF - Carmelo
    PF - Amar'e
    C - Turiaf

    G - Douglas
    G - Walker
    G - Rautins
    G/F - Fields
    F - Balkman
    F - Shawne Williams?
    C - ??

    I do agree that we need more depth in the frontcourt especially a better backup C since Turiaf can only play like 20 minutes a night, but you can't deny that having Shumpert at SG looks better than having Fields at SG and having Kenneth Faried. If we had Faried we'd have a good backup for Amar'e playing 10 minutes a game rebounding but we'd still have to address the fact that we have 48 minutes of ZERO DEFENSE in our backcourt. I think Donnie went after what he thought was the bigger problem which was our lack of a SG and any defense in the backcourt
    Last edited by SSj4Wingzero; Jul 12, 2011 at 01:10.

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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Dude that "2 wrongs don't make a right" argument is retarded. The fact is that SOMEONE is going to get those minutes, regardless if it's a scrub like Jeffries or someone else.
    Your entire argument is based on "someone has to get those minutes." Why does it have to be Faried? The Knicks saw Shumpert to be a great fit for this team and he fills a need. So they passed on Faried. Big deal. Faried is not irreplaceable. He's a commodity-type of player. You can find plenty of guys in the "3-4 'tweener backup who rebounds cuz he sucks at everything else" category. That's all he is until he proves otherwise.

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    Originally Posted by Marek
    Your entire argument is based on "someone has to get those minutes." Why does it have to be Faried? The Knicks saw Shumpert to be a great fit for this team and he fills a need. So they passed on Faried. Big deal. Faried is not irreplaceable. He's a commodity-type of player. You can find plenty of guys in the "3-4 'tweener backup who rebounds cuz he sucks at everything else" category. That's all he is until he proves otherwise.
    I never said it HAD to be Faried. I said it didn't make sense to me to ignore our obvious need in the frontcourt at the pick to take a guy who plays a position that we already have 5 other guys under contract playing this season. Faried is not the only big that was available when it was our turn to pick. Instead we chose to take Shumpert, a guy who plays the same position as 5 other guys on the roster. If he's so good that we absolutely couldn't pass up the chance to draft him that's fine by me, but when you're projected as a 2nd round pick it's hard for you or anyone else to make the case that he was the obvious choice.

    All I know is we needed a rebounder in the frontcourt in a bad way. Rebounding was a key weakness all of last season, & still is. Seems to make sense to me to draft the best rebounder available, & that was Faried. This kid averaged 17 pts. 15 rebounds, 2 steals & 2 blocks a game while also shooting 62% from the floor his senior year, albeit for a small name school. Still, those are not numbers to sneeze at. & That was not a fluke season either, he dominated the boards all 4 years he played college ball. I don't see how people can automatically presume that he would be nothing more than a 6-8 mpg specialty player off the bench while Iman Shumpert, who only really had 1 good year out of 3 at the college level & averaged 39% shooting from the floor during that span, will automatically be a quality starting SG at the NBA level.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    I do agree that we need more depth in the frontcourt especially a better backup C since Turiaf can only play like 20 minutes a night, but you can't deny that having Shumpert at SG looks better than having Fields at SG and having Kenneth Faried.
    I disagree, I would much rather have Fields & Faried gobbling up rebounds left & right & running the fastbreak than relegating Fields to the bench & having no quality backups for STAT in the frontcourt at all. I believe denying 2nd chance pts to other teams is also a good way to strengthen your defense.

    Personally I'm not even sure he's all that much of an upgrade over Toney Douglas. Fields, who struggled bigtime since Melo's arrival, was still a top 2 or 3 ROY candidate for much of the season last year. What makes you think Shumpert will be an upgrade over him? Defensively yes, I believe he would be, but he would also make us a smaller starting 5 than we already are in the process. Unless our plan is to trade Fields (which I would have no problem with) then all you're really doing by putting him in a bench role is weakening our already weak point. Not sure how that really helps our team improve all that much.

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    And what makes you think Kenneth Faried would have been a quality backup for Amar'e? Faried is too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA. He'd serve as an offensively-crappy backup for Carmelo, at best.

    Instead of having Kenneth Faried back up Carmelo and having crappy defense in the backcourt because Fields, as competent a player as he is, isn't quick enough to guard the 2 position reliably, having Shumpert allows us to not only improve our backcourt defense (which we all agree is a huge weakness) but also improve our backup at SF (better backup for Carmelo in the form of Landry Fields).

    Having Faried addresses our rebounding needs when Carmelo/Amar'e is off the floor but does nothing to address the fact that our backcourt gets constantly abused by any team with a half decent 2 guard who can take the ball to the basket. I'm tired of seeing the likes of Nick Young and Louis Williams embarrass us. We need a shooting guard who can play lockdown defense, we've needed that for a long time, and having a guy like Iman Shumpert who can fill the Tony Allen role on our team is going to be pivotal.

    While having Shumpert, we can fix our backcourt defense AS WELL AS have a decent 2nd unit in the front court by giving Landry Fields the primary 6th man spot behind Carmelo. It improves our team because:

    1. Our backcourt defense is no longer ****
    2. Our frontcourt has a decent backup on offense when Carmelo is resting on the bench.

    If you put Kenneth Faried on this team we're going to score **** for points when Faried is on the floor. If we put Shumpert on this team we get better defense in the backcourt from our starting lineup AS WELL AS, because we shift Fields to the 2nd unit, a better offensive team when Carmelo is resting. Plus we have a player like Fields who can rebound as well as Carmelo can.

    At the end of the day though, we both recognize this team has some serious problems - backcourt defense, depth at the forward positions, and REBOUNDING.

    And the reality of the matter is the only thing that will solve our rebounding woes is a CENTER. A HALF-DECENT Center who can rebound and block a shot here or there. Kenneth Faried is not that guy.

    But you know what the WORST problem of all is?

    This all could have been solved if the Knicks just kept COREY BREWER!

    Seriously! Brewer is an excellent athlete who is also an excellent defender. He could have been the PERFECT player to play behind Carmelo, then we could have drafted Shumpert and traded him or drafted Shumpert, put him in the starting lineup, and traded Fields for a bigger guy who could play behind Amar'e. I still think waiving Corey Brewer is going to bite us in the ass because I thought he was going to be the unsung hero of the Carmelo trade - instead he gets waived because he doesn't shoot 3's so Mike D will never play him. Instead he'd rather play Roger Mason Jr. Wow.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    And what makes you think Kenneth Faried would have been a quality backup for Amar'e? Faried is too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA. He'd serve as an offensively-crappy backup for Carmelo, at best.

    Instead of having Kenneth Faried back up Carmelo and having crappy defense in the backcourt because Fields, as competent a player as he is, isn't quick enough to guard the 2 position reliably, having Shumpert allows us to not only improve our backcourt defense (which we all agree is a huge weakness) but also improve our backup at SF (better backup for Carmelo in the form of Landry Fields).

    Having Faried addresses our rebounding needs when Carmelo/Amar'e is off the floor but does nothing to address the fact that our backcourt gets constantly abused by any team with a half decent 2 guard who can take the ball to the basket. I'm tired of seeing the likes of Nick Young and Louis Williams embarrass us. We need a shooting guard who can play lockdown defense, we've needed that for a long time, and having a guy like Iman Shumpert who can fill the Tony Allen role on our team is going to be pivotal.

    While having Shumpert, we can fix our backcourt defense AS WELL AS have a decent 2nd unit in the front court by giving Landry Fields the primary 6th man spot behind Carmelo. It improves our team because:

    1. Our backcourt defense is no longer ****
    2. Our frontcourt has a decent backup on offense when Carmelo is resting on the bench.

    If you put Kenneth Faried on this team we're going to score **** for points when Faried is on the floor. If we put Shumpert on this team we get better defense in the backcourt from our starting lineup AS WELL AS, because we shift Fields to the 2nd unit, a better offensive team when Carmelo is resting. Plus we have a player like Fields who can rebound as well as Carmelo can.

    At the end of the day though, we both recognize this team has some serious problems - backcourt defense, depth at the forward positions, and REBOUNDING.

    And the reality of the matter is the only thing that will solve our rebounding woes is a CENTER. A HALF-DECENT Center who can rebound and block a shot here or there. Kenneth Faried is not that guy.

    But you know what the WORST problem of all is?

    This all could have been solved if the Knicks just kept COREY BREWER!

    Seriously! Brewer is an excellent athlete who is also an excellent defender. He could have been the PERFECT player to play behind Carmelo, then we could have drafted Shumpert and traded him or drafted Shumpert, put him in the starting lineup, and traded Fields for a bigger guy who could play behind Amar'e. I still think waiving Corey Brewer is going to bite us in the ass because I thought he was going to be the unsung hero of the Carmelo trade - instead he gets waived because he doesn't shoot 3's so Mike D will never play him. Instead he'd rather play Roger Mason Jr. Wow.
    Why does everyone on this board overrate Brewer so much? Is there something I'm missing? He was a decent rotational player on one of the 2 or 3 worst teams in basketball and after we cut him, he became a full-time bench-warmer in Dallas. He's a small forward who couldn't make a jumpshot if his life depended on it and couldn't get playing time backing up a 33 year old Shawn Marion. How much playing time was he ever really getting behind STAT and MElO?

    Shumpert, on the other hand, isn't a forward playing behind two all-stars and has the potential to be our future pg someday or at least be our backup pg and play meaningful minutes. I just don't get the infatuation everyone has with brewer.

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    Originally Posted by keyser soze
    Why does everyone on this board overrate Brewer so much? Is there something I'm missing? He was a decent rotational player on one of the 2 or 3 worst teams in basketball and after we cut him, he became a full-time bench-warmer in Dallas. He's a small forward who couldn't make a jumpshot if his life depended on it and couldn't get playing time backing up a 33 year old Shawn Marion. How much playing time was he ever really getting behind STAT and MElO?

    Shumpert, on the other hand, isn't a forward playing behind two all-stars and has the potential to be our future pg someday or at least be our backup pg and play meaningful minutes. I just don't get the infatuation everyone has with brewer.
    1. Brewer could have been a lockdown defender.
    2. Nobody's infatuated with Brewer, we're more just wondering why we dumped him and kept Roger Mason Jr. of all people.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    And what makes you think Kenneth Faried would have been a quality backup for Amar'e? Faried is too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA. He'd serve as an offensively-crappy backup for Carmelo, at best.
    The fact that he averaged 17 pts. 15 rebounds, 2 steals & 2 blocks a game while also shooting 62% from the floor last year makes me think he could be a nice backup to STAT.

    As for being too small to play the 4 against most teams in the NBA, that's nonsense. Do you really want me to run down a list of NBA PF's 6'8" & under that have had lots of success at the NBA level? Come on now. Hell I'd be fine with having Faried turn into a JYD clone in his prime, someone that can ignite the crowd with his hustle & energy & wake up the team when they're playing with no fire & desire as Clyde would say. You simply cannot teach the type of motor & hustle that Faried has in his game. Guys can learn how to shoot the rock & practice taking jumpers, but they can't teach heart, & I believe Faried has it. Now I could be way off on my estimation of this kid but from what I've seen I think he's gonna be a nice player in the NBA. I don't see a Renaldo Balkman clone at all. I think he could have filled that Shawn Marion role in this MDA offense, grab rebounds, run the break, finish, defend, block shots, make hustle plays. I think we need a player like that.

    Now I don't think Shumpert will be a bum by any means, but I have more questions & misgivings about his role on this team, & how much of an impact he will actually have. I hope my worries are unfounded. I hope he ends up being the next John Starks (my favorite Knick of alltime). I will be rooting for him.

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