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Thread: James Dolan decision-making in 2002 draft

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    Nyk Logo James Dolan decision-making in 2002 draft

    An old article by Frank Isola

    The Knicks owned the No. 7 overall pick but elected to trade the selection
    to Denver -- the Nuggets took Nene -- along with Marcus Camby for Antonio
    McDyess. Two picks later, the Suns gobbled up "Stoudemire" right out of
    high school.
    Can you imagine if the Knicks had just kept Camby and drafted Stoudemire?
    Thatīs a pretty good front line (having Kurt Thomas too). Former Knicks
    president Scott Layden orchestrated the trade but to put all the blame on
    Layden is wrong. Garden chairman James Dolan insisted that Camby and
    Latrell Sprewell be traded after the two players walked out of a media
    training session Dolan had ordered in Oct. 2002.
    Dolan took their abrupt exit as a slap in the face and was committed to
    removing both players from the roster. Sprewell ended up leaving the
    following season in the ill-fated deal for Keith Van Horn. Dolan felt that
    Camby and Sprewell were low character guys and were nothing but trouble.
    But Dolan wanted a team of choir boys which is why the Knicks didnīt even
    work out Stoudemire and never considered taking him. Meanwhile, Camby has
    been to the playoffs for the last two seasons and Stoudemire, having
    returned from knee surgery, makes the Phoenix Suns a serious contender in the west.

    Things that make u go OUCH!
    Shumpert over Kenneth Faried

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    This disgusts me. Sprewell, Camby, Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas....

    Dolan is the one who needs to get class.

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    This disgusts me. Sprewell, Camby, Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas....

    Dolan is the one who needs to get class.
    Dolan is the reason why we're so unsuccessful for over a decade...

    It's a huge burden to have such an owner....

    We are by far on top when it comes to the worst decision making over the last decade. Not only the actual players we traded, but also the long list of good to very good draft picks we just threw out the window, including guys like Nene, Jamaal Tinsley, Kareem Rush and Lamarcus Aldridge to name few.

    Let's not talk about the past anymore, it's too painful and a classic example of how to dismantle the best team in the Eastern Conference within 2 years and ruin the mid term future of a great franchise.

    Best thing for us would be if Dolan had to step down and sell the Knicks for whatever reason.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Think about 1999... We take Weiss inthe first round (Artest goes next pick) then JR Koch in the 2nd (Manu Ginobili goes later).

    Then, the next year, we try to atone for passing on the St John's product, so we take the next St John's prospect (Lavor Postell) and pass on the superior SG from Ohio St (AKA Michael Redd).

    THEN, we all know about the disaster that was the Ewing trade. Instead of letting him play out his final season and then let him walk... clear the cap space... We trade him for 1 bad contract and then keep adding bad contracts.

    Then we bring in the Utah junk (Shandon Anderson & Howard Eisley).

    This is where the Knicks were when that ill-fated draft decision arrived in 2002. The Knicks had a chance to strike gold (Artest & Ginobili) in the 1999 draft, which would have made the transition from Ewing to the post-Ewing era a smooth one.

    FINE. They pass on Artest and took the wrong Euro player that year. I don't fault them for not knowing what Manu was. Even so, they should have moved forward knowing they had Marcus Camby, cap space to come and then draft wisely...

    But MC missed a meeting and pissed off the owner. The decision to dump him would cost the Knicks almost a decade of basketball. Thank you very much Dolan. He let his ego prevent this team from rebuilding post Ewing, a fact that is obvious and evident, in which we are now barely crawling out from underneath it....

    B/C we had no center, we then trade for Eddy Curry. Ugh. B/C we didn;t draft properly, we attempted the quick fix- trade for Marbury- instead of clearing cap space and signing another PG (Steve Nash).

    Knicks went to the Finals in 1999. Then interim GM Ed Tapscott screwed the draft. Then Scott Layden screwed NYK when he dealt Ewing. Knicks should have tried to make another run with Houston-Spree-Camby-Ewing... then let Ewing walk and build around Spree-Camby. But Layden deals Ewing, then Spree-Camby piss off the owner. Houston gets hurt... we can't draft!

    Nash
    Manu or Redd
    Artest
    Amar'e or Nene
    Camby

    This could have been the New York Knicks of the 2000-2010 era. Instead, we lost an entire decade b/c of bad decisions made by our GMs and our owner's ego. Simple as that. One mistake led to another, and the disaster compounded and took a life of its own.

    EVEN NOW... barely a season out of the mess, the owner spoils everything b/c he sold the farm to get Melo... Dolan ruined the negotiations. He has no business acumen. NO sense of bluffing or anything. As much as I like the new Knicks, I know who Dolan is... and with him our chances of winning anything are SLIM. Sad fact it is to know this truth.
    Last edited by mafra; Jul 06, 2011 at 10:21.

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    Member NYKLiFER's Avatar
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    Default Word>>>.

    Originally Posted by mafra
    Think about 1999... We take Weiss inthe first round (Artest goes next pick) then JR Koch in the 2nd (Manu Ginobili goes later).

    Then, the next year, we try to atone for passing on the St John's product, so we take the next St John's prospect (Lavor Postell) and pass on the superior SG from Ohio St (AKA Michael Redd).

    THEN, we all know about the disaster that was the Ewing trade. Instead of letting him play out his final season and then let him walk... clear the cap space... We trade him for 1 bad contract and then keep adding bad contracts.

    Then we bring in the Utah junk (Shandon Anderson & Howard Eisley).

    This is where the Knicks were when that ill-fated draft decision arrived in 2002. The Knicks had a chance to strike gold (Artest & Ginobili) in the 1999 draft, which would have made the transition from Ewing to the post-Ewing era a smooth one.

    FINE. They pass on Artest and took the wrong Euro player that year. I don't fault them for not knowing what Manu was. Even so, they should have moved forward knowing they had Marcus Camby, cap space to come and then draft wisely...

    But MC missed a meeting and pissed off the owner. The decision to dump him would cost the Knicks almost a decade of basketball. Thank you very much Dolan. He let his ego prevent this team from rebuilding post Ewing, a fact that is obvious and evident, in which we are now barely crawling out from underneath it....

    B/C we had no center, we then trade for Eddy Curry. Ugh. B/C we didn;t draft properly, we attempted the quick fix- trade for Marbury- instead of clearing cap space and signing another PG (Steve Nash).

    Knicks went to the Finals in 1999. Then interim GM Ed Tapscott screwed the draft. Then Scott Layden screwed NYK when he dealt Ewing. Knicks should have tried to make another run with Houston-Spree-Camby-Ewing... then let Ewing walk and build around Spree-Camby. But Layden deals Ewing, then Spree-Camby piss off the owner. Houston gets hurt... we can't draft!

    Nash
    Manu or Redd
    Artest
    Amar'e or Nene
    Camby

    This could have been the New York Knicks of the 2000-2010 era. Instead, we lost an entire decade b/c of bad decisions made by our GMs and our owner's ego. Simple as that. One mistake led to another, and the disaster compounded and took a life of its own.

    EVEN NOW... barely a season out of the mess, the owner spoils everything b/c he sold the farm to get Melo... Dolan ruined the negotiations. He has no business acumen. NO sense of bluffing or anything. As much as I like the new Knicks, I know who Dolan is... and with him our chances of winning anything are SLIM. Sad fact it is to know this truth.
    Dam you just brung up mad bad memories but, you are 100% right wow I never realized what really could have been. i hate Dolan more now than I did Before i was not aware we got rid or Spree and Camby because they skipped out on a meeting Dolan is a moron and no one should ever go to the garden until he sells the team but, society does not work that way and we will continue to buy tickets and mechandise and for this reason Dolan will never sell the cash cow that is the Knicks.....

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Think about 1999... We take Weiss inthe first round (Artest goes next pick) then JR Koch in the 2nd (Manu Ginobili goes later).

    Then, the next year, we try to atone for passing on the St John's product, so we take the next St John's prospect (Lavor Postell) and pass on the superior SG from Ohio St (AKA Michael Redd).

    THEN, we all know about the disaster that was the Ewing trade. Instead of letting him play out his final season and then let him walk... clear the cap space... We trade him for 1 bad contract and then keep adding bad contracts.

    Then we bring in the Utah junk (Shandon Anderson & Howard Eisley).

    This is where the Knicks were when that ill-fated draft decision arrived in 2002. The Knicks had a chance to strike gold (Artest & Ginobili) in the 1999 draft, which would have made the transition from Ewing to the post-Ewing era a smooth one.

    FINE. They pass on Artest and took the wrong Euro player that year. I don't fault them for not knowing what Manu was. Even so, they should have moved forward knowing they had Marcus Camby, cap space to come and then draft wisely...

    But MC missed a meeting and pissed off the owner. The decision to dump him would cost the Knicks almost a decade of basketball. Thank you very much Dolan. He let his ego prevent this team from rebuilding post Ewing, a fact that is obvious and evident, in which we are now barely crawling out from underneath it....

    B/C we had no center, we then trade for Eddy Curry. Ugh. B/C we didn;t draft properly, we attempted the quick fix- trade for Marbury- instead of clearing cap space and signing another PG (Steve Nash).

    Knicks went to the Finals in 1999. Then interim GM Ed Tapscott screwed the draft. Then Scott Layden screwed NYK when he dealt Ewing. Knicks should have tried to make another run with Houston-Spree-Camby-Ewing... then let Ewing walk and build around Spree-Camby. But Layden deals Ewing, then Spree-Camby piss off the owner. Houston gets hurt... we can't draft!

    Nash
    Manu or Redd
    Artest
    Amar'e or Nene
    Camby

    This could have been the New York Knicks of the 2000-2010 era. Instead, we lost an entire decade b/c of bad decisions made by our GMs and our owner's ego. Simple as that. One mistake led to another, and the disaster compounded and took a life of its own.

    EVEN NOW... barely a season out of the mess, the owner spoils everything b/c he sold the farm to get Melo... Dolan ruined the negotiations. He has no business acumen. NO sense of bluffing or anything. As much as I like the new Knicks, I know who Dolan is... and with him our chances of winning anything are SLIM. Sad fact it is to know this truth.

    AMEN brother! Amen!

    Perfect analysis, nothing to add or modify. This is the truth.

    I wish you could tell that story in front of James Dolan....but he wouldn't understand.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Trust me this very scenerio drives me crazy.....Camby in his prime and a up and coming Amare w a core of players not too far from removed from our Finals run wouldve been dope!


    But....we're not the only team in the league to make bonehead moves.


    If Portland Drafts Durant to the core of players they have they are the favorites in The West each year.

    Imagine if Detroit adds Melo to their championship nucleus?

    Imagine if New Jersey drafts Jordan insted of (gulp) Sam Bowie!

    Wayman Tisdale, Benoit Benjamin,John Konkack, Joe Klien,Keith Lee, Kenny Green all got Drafted ahead of Karl Malone!!!!


    It will drive you crazy to think of all the talent we either did not draft (ie. Artest, Stat) and players who we did not sign as FA's (we passed on having Tim Hardaway and Reggie Miller as our backcourt for Houston and Childs)
    But we are not the only ones to do it


    Yet....I too hate Dolan for trying so hard to force basketball decsions.

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    Default 10 years of D'oh-lan!

    Yes Kiyaman, this is something all true Knick fans have known for
    the past 10 years; D'oh-lan f*cked this team over from day 1 of
    owning the Knicks. thanks for bringing this article back into the
    light, it sticks the knife ever deeper into my heart, over and over.

    James D'oh-lan sucks, he is the worst owner in the NBA,
    and knows nothing about basketball. what a dick!

    Sprewell and Camby. 2 of the main reasons Knicks went to the
    Finals in that shortened season. gone because of a fool and his
    money and power.

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    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    Well Dolan is a idiot who always lose negotiations because he always blinks first. We know this, The league knows this. And I will argue deep down inside Dolan knows this which is why he hides from the Media while trying (and failing) to earn respect by being involved in the decision making of a successful team.

    Thats why he got involved in the Melo deal. He wanted to take credit for it. Before his involvement the offer was supposedly Gallo OR Chandler, a first round pick and The Eddy Curry contract and we know how that turned out.
    Last edited by Wargames; Jul 07, 2011 at 14:26.

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    You can drive yourself mad looking at how much better we could have drafted in any particular year (1992 we could have gotten Spree but picked Hubert Davis instead), but you're right.. The last 10 years have been particularly bone-headed for us.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sage
    You can drive yourself mad looking at how much better we could have drafted in any particular year (1992 we could have gotten Spree but picked Hubert Davis instead), but you're right.. The last 10 years have been particularly bone-headed for us.
    Oh ****, we could have had Starks AND Spree?

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    Starks + Spree + Ewing = Title in '94.

    ****ing Dolan...

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    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    James D'oh-lan sucks, he is the worst owner in the NBA, and knows nothing about basketball. what a dick!
    We can't have screaming-fan billionaires run ALL the pro-sports teams. That would be too entertaining.

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    That Nene/Camby trade makes me cringe so hard.

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    I totally agree that you can look back at many drafts and second-guess... Still, there are a few facts that really piss me off.

    Dolan Sr. did nothing to ensure that Ewing won a title. We didn't go out and get Patrick the all-star guard we needed to get to compliment PE. We had 2 great rookie PGs (M-Jax and Rod-Strick) but traded them both and went with aging vets, then the average Cs. We went with another draft pick (Wilkens) and then a grocery-clerk turn overachiever (Starks). This was the G we surround PE with? What about getting Dominic Wilkens!

    OK. We just loaded up on the front court, and then signed Houston. It took ten years but we finally started to get desperate, and made some moves.

    Anyway, we fans felt kind of cheated. I realize we made some trades and free agent signings... But not much happened in the late 80s. So here we were, title-less at the end of the PE era. Ewing had 1 more year left. We had Spree-Camby-Houston. Why were we running PE out of town?

    Go to war with our warrior for 1 more year and then move on, right?

    The bad karma began in that 1999 draft. It was SO OBVIOUS that Artest should have been the choice... it wasn't even close. So this wasn't even a 2nd guess... It was an immedate uproar!

    Then, why did Layden trade Ewing? Only b/c he was the new GM and wanted to make it his team, build it in his image... He deals a legend and brings in junk from his former team? WEAK. This started the downfall... But the owner really killed the team when he dealt Camby & Spree b/c they defied him.

    THIS IS A BUSINESS. You don't bite off your nose to spite your face. BUT, like it was mentioned... Knicks are a cash cow and make money regardless. Dolan doesn't care about winning. He proved that when he dealt 2 all-stars because they wouldn't sit there and listen to a PR seminar!

    The defensive-minded NYK would have continued the legacy after Ewing with a Camby-Artest.

    I realize they felt they could deal Spree... they had Houston, and maybe they felt he was a time-bomb... BUt the Karma struck again when HOUSTON blew out his knees.

    And we can regret about missed opportunites in the draft, but we shouldn;t forgive just giving away the draft picks. I mean, we trade for an injured Mcdyess? Come on. Then, EVERYONE IN CHI would tell you Curry had no heart... And we trade the farm for him like he's Shaq? Come on!

    Going for the quick fix doesn't work in the NBA.

    I mean, being unlucky is seeing Carlos Boozer go 1 pick before you select in the 2nd round, then you end up with a chump named Milos Vujanic... being foolish is drafting the only 2 foreign players in the history who prefer to remain overseas than play in the NBA..

    BUT, giving away your lottery pick for A-Mcdyess is foolish and stupid when Amar'e and Nene are on the board. We had Camby, and we would have had a lottery pick? How does this make sense?

    So... we all know the rest of the story. But this goes beyond drafting poorly.

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