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Thread: I want Paul, but w Nash I think we could win it all too.

  1. #1
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo I want Paul, but w Nash I think we could win it all too.

    Why? Because I think between him Melo and Amare we'd be too difficult for teams to stop.

    If we get a few defensive stoppers and a couple of cheap bigs to go along w Turiaf (I like both the Kwame Brown and K. Thomas suggestions), I think we'd be fine.

    Our offense w Melo to go along w Nash and Amare would be purely unstoppable, just too much for teams.

    I think Nash has atleast 2 more great years left.

    Not sure who this dude is but he makes alot of sense below.. Even though it's from the Bleacher Report this article provides some good food for thought:



    The amount of trade and free-agency talk amidst the current NBA lockout has been pleasantly surprising.

    Sure, such talks are something we are used to, but it is refreshing to know that we can still seek shelter and solace from the mundanely depressing CBA talks by encompassing ourselves in potential roster moves.

    One player’s status in particular has generated a lot of speculation over recent weeks: Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns.

    Nash's name has been has been mentioned in a number of different trade scenarios as of late, and the New York Knicks are among the teams that have reportedly contacted the Suns about his availability.

    However, New York is viewed by most as a pipe-dream destination for Nash, because the Knicks’ only asset in these negotiations would be the expiring contract of Chauncey Billups, who would be a downgrade for the Suns.

    To even further support the previous notion, in a video posted courtesy of the New York Post, Nash is filmed saying he does not see himself joining the Knicks.

    Despite what most critics say and what most evidence points to though, New York is the front-runner in the Nash sweepstakes.

    And no, I’m not crazy.


    If Nash teams up with Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks become a serious championship contender.

    Should there be an NBA season this year and Nash is moved, he will be sent to New York, provided that the Knicks did not by some miraculous endeavor acquire Chris Paul from the New Orleans Hornets, of course.

    Why exactly?

    While many New Yorkers sat in front of their television on draft night enraged at the Knicks' selection, others were rendered unpleasantly puzzled.

    Why, with Chris Singleton and Kenneth Faried still available, did the Knicks select Iman Shumpert—or as I like to call him, “Toney Douglas 2.0"—to add to their abundance of guards?

    Had Douglas fallen out of favor with New York?

    Was selecting Shumpert in anticipation of the Knicks being short on guards because they had a measuring stick of what it would take to acquire Paul?

    Did Donnie Walsh just pick a name out of hat?

    As it turns out, neither of the initial theories were cause for Shumpert’s selection; rather, it was purely motivated by Nash.

    Randy Hill of Fox Sports Arizona posted an interesting article in response to the draft. In it, he notes how Shumpert caught the attention of the Suns at the NBA draft combine, and that Phoenix was even considering selecting him with the 13th overall pick.

    Could a package of Chauncey Billups and Iman Shumpert prove to be enough to pry Steve Nash from the Suns?

    Not bad for a player who many, including ESPN draft-day analysts, thought would slip to the second round, huh?

    In the end though, Phoenix went with power forward Markeiff Morris, opting not to, as Hill cited, “record the draft’s longest reach.”

    The Knicks, well aware that a straight-up Billups for Nash swap would not come to fruition unless the Suns were feeling especially sentimental that day and wanted to allow Nash a chance to play for a contender, selected Shumpert at 17th overall.

    If the Suns are serious about rebuilding, accepting an offer of Billups and Shumpert for Nash is not out of the question. They get a talent in Shumpert that they already covet, and it almost ensures them a high lottery pick in next year’s draft.

    Now, all of New York would prefer Paul to Nash, but if it becomes increasingly clear the Knicks cannot obtain him, and it probably will, Nash is a great fallback option. Not to mention that his expiring contract allows New York to still pursue Paul via free agency.

    Furthermore, the Knicks would welcome Nash’s clean bill of health after the Billups fiasco this past postseason.

    Oh, and there is also the fact that Nash comes with 14.7 points and 11.4 assists per game, numbers that have a great chance of improving with Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire to pass to.


    The beauty of the Knicks acquiring Nash is they still keep their Chris Paul aspirations alive.

    With Nash, the Knicks instantly become contenders. His familiarity with Mike D’Antoni’s system combined with his impeccable court vision would make New York a serious championship threat.

    Simply put, there is no telling how far the Knicks can go with Nash at the helm.

    So before we write off Shumpert as another New York draft-day mistake, let’s consider his possible contribution to the team.

    Shumpert has the potential to help the Knicks acquire Nash, thus making them instantaneous contenders, while at the same time conserving enough cap room to make a serious run at Paul.

    What now may be viewed as another draft-day folly, may in fact turn out to be one of the Knicks' best selections of all time.


    So Shumpert was Phoenix's prize... hmmm. They can have em. I want a championship.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    I don't buy the Suns liking Shumpert that much. He's Steve Nash, the face of their franchise. The owner LOVES him there and still says he's not interested in trading him. Of course, he might not mean that, but he might be thinking of a trade to build around Nash and contend.

    Would you make the trade if you were the Suns owner?

    Unless Shumpert is impressive in the regular season before the trade deadline if there is a season, I don't see it happening.

    Also, expect Fields to be in this trade. If your goal is to win now, you do it, but, I think we should be planning for longer term in our position while still having a chance to win it all next season. We would have Turiaf still though if we traded Fields, but his past injuries are enough to strongly be in favor of keeping Fields.

    I'd actually like to see the Suns win a championship with Nash and Hill. It'd be a lot more fitting.

    If Nash did come to the Knicks, I'd love it. I'm not gonna think about it much, don't see a trade happening. He will be a free agent in 2012 though. Who knows where he'll go.

  3. #3
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    So the Suns' owner's love for Nash makes them keep Nash...which would probably cause them to get another low lottery pick like they had last year, and watch Steve walk or nothing?

    Or trade Nash for a package that they deem good enough to ensure that they get young talent, and have a shot at a higher lottery pick next year in a draft that will be bursting at the seams in talent.

    We have to stop looking at owners and front office execs as fans, and more like the businessmen that they are.

    Nash is gone if the right deal comes along, the question is...can the Knicks and Suns reach an agreement on what the right deal is? I don't wanna give up too much for a one year rental. If they take Billups and Iman, then take that deal and hush.

    My only issue with this is, if we were to get Nash, I'd want him from the beginning of the season since he's familiar with Doughboy Pringles and his system. But I'm not quite as sold as a lot of other people are, that we can't get Paul. CP3 is no fool, he sees our cap situation this summer, he sees his chance to fill that last spot to gives the Knicks THREE STARTERS FROM LAST YEAR'S ALL-STAR GAME......THREE; and if he doesn't fill that spot and let's Dwight or Deron get it...well where's he going and how is he getting past the monster that was created on 7th Ave? If he wants to be a Knick, and forces his way here in the same fashion Melo did...we'll get him. Our "lack" of pieces wouldn't be our problem, it would be the NBA (who's running NO) and NO's problem. There's gonna be inherently less pressure on CP3 than Melo had, to pick a team by the deadline, because all of CP3's money will be under the new CBA. He can literally say "trade me there or watch me walk" and mean it.

    So do we throw all of our eggs into the Nash basket, or do we hold onto those assets until February and go get a CP3 so he can still get his extra year? (if the Bird exception is still in existence)

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    We just play the waiting game. We're in no hurry to make a move, I don't think.

    We could also sign Nash as a free agent after the end of this season. If we signed Nash, we could sign him to much less than we could sign CP3 and that would allow us to use some money to get some good defensive roleplayers like a solid C and backup PF that we've been lacking.

    I do think that if CP3 wants to be a Knick, he'll be a Knick. The reason we HAD to do the deal for Carmelo was because Carmelo essentially did NOT want to play for Denver for another year. If the new CBA added a franchise tag then Carmelo would have been stuck in Denver, and if the CBA sucked that franchise tag could've given Denver the ability to keep Carmelo for WHO KNOWS how long.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Billups/Nash/Paul

    We're in a good spot for the position as long as we maintain it after next (if there is) season.

    Let's not count Billups out. Before that injury before the Playoffs he was playing very well.

  6. #6

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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    I'd actually like to see the Suns win a championship with Nash and Hill. It'd be a lot more fitting.
    High five!
    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    If Nash did come to the Knicks, I'd love it. I'm not gonna think about it much, don't see a trade happening. He will be a free agent in 2012 though. Who knows where he'll go.
    I like Billups running point for NY better than Nash. I'm a huge Nash fan; still think he's one of THE elite old-school PGs to this day; but I really don't think having him in NY with STAT and Mike D will really work out any better for the Knicks as it did in the Suns.

  7. #7
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pakopako
    High five!
    I like Billups running point for NY better than Nash. I'm a huge Nash fan; still think he's one of THE elite old-school PGs to this day; but I really don't think having him in NY with STAT and Mike D will really work out any better for the Knicks as it did in the Suns.
    Carmelo Anthony.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Carmelo Anthony.
    Yeah.

    Of course, the Suns had a heck of a team, and even might have been screwed one year. What Carmelo does bring is something different than that team, especially since he could handle business on his own a lot more consistently than any of Nash's teammates from than including Amar'e.

    I'm not saying our team would be better than that team because of Carmelo, who knows.

  9. #9
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    Yeah.

    Of course, the Suns had a heck of a team, and even might have been screwed one year. What Carmelo does bring is something different than that team, especially since he could handle business on his own a lot more consistently than any of Nash's teammates from than including Amar'e.

    I'm not saying our team would be better than that team because of Carmelo, who knows.
    The Carmelo factor added to the Amare/Nash combo is what makes us an absolute problem for opponents. This what I've been saying along. Teams would not be able to handle those two w either Paul or Nash at the helm running the show. We would be scary good IMO.

  10. #10
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    The Carmelo factor added to the Amare/Nash combo is what makes us an absolute problem for opponents. This what I've been saying along. Teams would not be able to handle those two w either Paul or Nash at the helm running the show. We would be scary good IMO.
    Absolutely. That's why I find it hard to believe that we won't end up with CP3 or Dwight. Neither guy is an idiot, they see the potential that only the Knicks possess at this point. No other team can say "hey Chris/Dwight, come team up with Amar'e AND Carmelo.

    Dwight's realistic options are Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, maybe being traded to the Heat for Wade, and maybe there's an outside chance of the Nets. Yea him teaming up with Rose, or LBJ, or Deron would form a seriously nasty duo....but we can still go get CP3 and have a seriously disgusting trio.

    Same thing with CP3. His options are what....Knicks, trade to the Thunder, maybe a deal for Parker?? What teams can you see him going to other than us and still having a legit chance to compete, and even if he does go elsewhere and we get Deron or Dwight....we still have a seriously disgusting trio.

    I have a feeling that it's gonna be a "behind the scenes" fight between those three dudes to fill that last spot. It's gonna come down to "do I complete the vicious team that competes for titles, or do I compete against them?" All indications seem to point to dudes wanting to team up to win.

    The Knicks will be a problem for the NBA once we get our 3rd guy. It's musical chairs, we got one spot for 3 candidates, who grabs it first?

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    It's gone past dudes wanting to team up to win and it's gotten to teaming up because that's the only way to stop Miami from winning the next four titles.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    It's gone past dudes wanting to team up to win and it's gotten to teaming up because that's the only way to stop Miami from winning the next four titles.
    Same goes for the Knicks. Three complimentary superstars is better than 2 elite wings. Dudes are gonna have to ask themselves if they want to be the 3rd superstar, or do they want to compete with the Knicks and the Heat.

    We'd have more firepower than the Heat.

    If you're CP3 and you watch Dwight join the Knicks....where do you go to get your ring? Do you give up?

    CP3 + Melo + Amar'e >>>>>>> LBJ, Wade, and Christy Bosh.

    Melo, Amar'e, and Dwight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the NBA.

    We're about to be a problem. CP3, Dwight, and Deron are gonna have to ask themselves if they want to be a part of it, or competing against it. Then they'd have to maneuver their way here before someone else takes their spot.

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    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    If Shumpert was picked to be an asset to use in a trade for Nash, then I can understand the reasoning behind the pick. As of now it's a little baffling to say the least with 5 other G's already under contract for next season.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    If Shumpert was picked to be an asset to use in a trade for Nash, then I can understand the reasoning behind the pick. As of now it's a little baffling to say the least with 5 other G's already under contract for next season.
    I dunno how baffling it is. If this is a pick for the future or a pick that they see as an upgrade. You can't really teach the physical tools that this guy has and you can't teach his maturity or attitude either.

    Yes we have several guards but look at them all:

    Billups - 1 season on his deal and only a couple more seasons of being an effective PG, also too slow to defend explosive PG's like Rose/Westbrook/Rondo etc.

    Toney Douglas - good combo guard

    Bill Walker - average, not a consistent defender

    Andy Rautins - bench warmer

    Landry Fields - keeper but also good trade bait

    So as far as players you'd want to give minutes to in the playoffs, we only really have 3, and depending what happens with the CBA and Billups, possibly only 2 when play resumes.

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    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I dunno how baffling it is. If this is a pick for the future or a pick that they see as an upgrade. You can't really teach the physical tools that this guy has and you can't teach his maturity or attitude either.

    Yes we have several guards but look at them all:

    Billups - 1 season on his deal and only a couple more seasons of being an effective PG, also too slow to defend explosive PG's like Rose/Westbrook/Rondo etc.

    Toney Douglas - good combo guard

    Bill Walker - average, not a consistent defender

    Andy Rautins - bench warmer

    Landry Fields - keeper but also good trade bait

    So as far as players you'd want to give minutes to in the playoffs, we only really have 3, and depending what happens with the CBA and Billups, possibly only 2 when play resumes.
    It's not really Shumpert the player that I have a problem with but more the reasoning behind the pick I'm trying to understand. If we are indeed going to use Landry as trade bait like you just suggested, then yeah, I completely understand the Shumpert selection. But going into the draft our biggest need was to shore up our frontcourt, & we chose instead to go with another backcourt player. If Shumpert was obviously BPA left at that selection, then fine, but that's also highly debateable. From what I understand, most draft boards had him projected in the 2nd round. If that's the case, then don't you think we could have easily gotten him with a purchased 2nd round pick the way we got Jorts? If we have no plans to trade any of our G's I think we would have been better served using our pick on a frontcourt guy personally.

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