Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 119

Thread: Kwame Brown... Are we serious?!

  1. #31
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,226
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Originally Posted by STAT1
    I'd much rather have a 6'8" PF who can grab me 10 rebounds a game & play quality low post defense backing up STAT than a stiff like Kwame Brown who will struggle to grab rebounds with his tiny hands & has issues with knowing where he needs to be on the floor at any given time just because he's 4 inches taller. That's just me. I'd take Chuck Hayes at 6'6" at the C position before I take Kwame Brown for that matter. Or Jeff Foster even. I don't wanna see any more stiffs out there who have no idea how to play the game of basketball. I wanna see skilled players & players who will give it their all every second they're on the court. Kwame Brown is not that guy & never has been.
    +1 for you.

    Heart, hustle, energy. Regardless of our defense (or lack of) that is what we should be looking for in any players we add if the emphasis is going to be on them helping defensively.

    An undersized player who WANTS the ball is much more effective than a 7 foot guy who can barely catch the ball.

  2. #32
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    I think the point about wanting a C over 6'11 is you can't teach height. A guy that size can alter someone's shot by just standing up straight with their arms extended upward. A 6'8 guy doesn't have that luxury.

  3. #33
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    What is the world coming to when we are considering signing Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas the oldest player in the league as if he's our answer at center?

    Between Kurt, Kwame or Foster... NONE of these guys is worthy of being a starter. And that's my point

    We should look at these types AFTER we get a starter. The fact that we believe we can achieve this "Center by committee" under MOA is ludicrous at best!

    The fact that we are having trouble chosing the bottom of the barrell like arguing over the fat chick at the prom is indicative of our poor planning imo.

    Under MOA these guys Won't make a difference, not enough to treat them like our answer. And this comes from attempting to go after Chris Paul A YEAR FROM NOW!

    Didn't we make this mistake already? Hello!

    Isn't it obvious we can't acquire 3 max super stars and acquire a legit center through FA? If we choose this 3 star plan (and one ISN'T A LEGIT center) we are f*cked.

    Unless a cheap draft pick can hold down the fort at center this situation is a microcosm of things ahead. Wishing a guy either takes less or produces more than his career avg we will lack what it takes to win. Solid big man play.

    And thinking we have assets to trade is further "triple Lindy Lunacy"...

    We MIGHT have an asset or two to trade for either a serviceable big, maybe a draft pick. With 2 max's plus 1 on the horizon (not a legit big), it's Kwame + Crazy Eyes + MOA's lack of fundamental Big knowledge and a prayer!

    Scrap this dream and do all possible to close the center gap. Compete THEN analyze what we may need. DON'T assume defeat until player X is acquired without gaurantee.

  4. #34
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    What is the world coming to when we are considering signing Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas the oldest player in the league as if he's our answer at center?

    Between Kurt, Kwame or Foster... NONE of these guys is worthy of being a starter. And that's my point

    We should look at these types AFTER we get a starter. The fact that we believe we can achieve this "Center by committee" under MOA is ludicrous at best!

    The fact that we are having trouble chosing the bottom of the barrell like arguing over the fat chick at the prom is indicative of our poor planning imo.

    Under MOA these guys Won't make a difference, not enough to treat them like our answer. And this comes from attempting to go after Chris Paul A YEAR FROM NOW!

    Didn't we make this mistake already? Hello!

    Isn't it obvious we can't acquire 3 max super stars and acquire a legit center through FA? If we choose this 3 star plan (and one ISN'T A LEGIT center) we are f*cked.

    Unless a cheap draft pick can hold down the fort at center this situation is a microcosm of things ahead. Wishing a guy either takes less or produces more than his career avg we will lack what it takes to win. Solid big man play.

    And thinking we have assets to trade is further "triple Lindy Lunacy"...

    We MIGHT have an asset or two to trade for either a serviceable big, maybe a draft pick. With 2 max's plus 1 on the horizon (not a legit big), it's Kwame + Crazy Eyes + MOA's lack of fundamental Big knowledge and a prayer!

    Scrap this dream and do all possible to close the center gap. Compete THEN analyze what we may need. DON'T assume defeat until player X is acquired without gaurantee.
    I have to agree with you Red. I HATE the idea of signing Kwame or any oneof these older undersized vets. He's a soft underachiever. If it's possible I really want them to go after Javale Mcgee which would come at a cheaper price. He's EXACTLY what we need in a starting center.

  5. #35
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    I have to agree with you Red. I HATE the idea of signing Kwame or any oneof these older undersized vets. He's a soft underachiever. If it's possible I really want them to go after Javale Mcgee which would come at a cheaper price. He's EXACTLY what we need in a starting center.
    Ok, so if its Mcgee fine. But its IMPOSSIBLE to plan for adding another max and fix our needs at center unless Jorts magically produces or Fields/Douglas/Turiaf or Rautins is traded for one or a pick. That's the bottom line.

    We NEED a center if we plan on competing period. How can we acquire said center given

    We have 2 max's, and little valued assets (eveyone else). Plus the league has a HISTORY of either taking us for granted or Leveraging by using us as a potential destination.

    We MUST recognize no one will do us ANY favors. The closest we can come to a favor is by fielding a competitive team ONE player away from a championship WITH room to spend $. And that $ amount will HAVE to be near to what the market price is.

    So IF Mcgee is worth say 7mil per, and IF say we have the MLE 5mil+ to spend HE MIGHT TAKE IT- but there's a chance HE MIGHT TAKE 8.5 he will hypothetically be offered also.

    When we bank on a player taking less, that's with the assumption he is offered more and we are sooo attractive he takes less. That's a gamble right there.

    To ENSURE we have a shot we must:

    1. Be very competitive WITHOUT him (thus needing a center before he even gets here or we will look dumb and weak)

    2. Have MORE money than needed to compete with bids

    By assuming and basing moves on little known or possible chances like acquiring CP3- we mind as well forget any possibility of getting anyone other than the least desired, oldest players in the league...


    And that ain't gonna cut it!

    Forget CP3, get draft picks and pray we can acquire a center who makes a difference or we will be the most entertaining failures.

    Maybe Shump can learn ahead of the curve and can run the point- then maybe we can trade Billups for a big, maybe

  6. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by smokes
    Because we are not going to be the only team looking for a free agent C this year... We are also not the most attractive destination when you have teams like Miami and Chicago who are that much closer to a ring than us.

    If there are other teams showing an interest we are going to have to beat their offer by either a) offering more money, or b) offering more years. Either way has the potential to screw us over.
    If things escalate like that, the Knicks will just let him go.
    It's not hard to foresee. You're worried about nothing. Kwame won't hustle the Knicks for 3yrs/$12m.

  7. #37
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    Ok, so if its Mcgee fine. But its IMPOSSIBLE to plan for adding another max and fix our needs at center unless Jorts magically produces or Fields/Douglas/Turiaf or Rautins is traded for one or a pick. That's the bottom line.

    We NEED a center if we plan on competing period. How can we acquire said center given

    We have 2 max's, and little valued assets (eveyone else). Plus the league has a HISTORY of either taking us for granted or Leveraging by using us as a potential destination.

    We MUST recognize no one will do us ANY favors. The closest we can come to a favor is by fielding a competitive team ONE player away from a championship WITH room to spend $. And that $ amount will HAVE to be near to what the market price is.

    So IF Mcgee is worth say 7mil per, and IF say we have the MLE 5mil+ to spend HE MIGHT TAKE IT- but there's a chance HE MIGHT TAKE 8.5 he will hypothetically be offered also.

    When we bank on a player taking less, that's with the assumption he is offered more and we are sooo attractive he takes less. That's a gamble right there.

    To ENSURE we have a shot we must:

    1. Be very competitive WITHOUT him (thus needing a center before he even gets here or we will look dumb and weak)

    2. Have MORE money than needed to compete with bids

    By assuming and basing moves on little known or possible chances like acquiring CP3- we mind as well forget any possibility of getting anyone other than the least desired, oldest players in the league...


    And that ain't gonna cut it!

    Forget CP3, get draft picks and pray we can acquire a center who makes a difference or we will be the most entertaining failures.

    Maybe Shump can learn ahead of the curve and can run the point- then maybe we can trade Billups for a big, maybe
    So your plan is to pass up on a proven superstar like CP3 who fills a need for some draft picks and prayers that we find a decent center!? Brilliant!

    Of course Kurt Thomas or Kwame aren't the "key" but they are steps towards adding size and depth picking from the very limited pool of attainable big men.

  8. #38
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    So your plan is to pass up on a proven superstar like CP3 who fills a need for some draft picks and prayers that we find a decent center!? Brilliant!

    Of course Kurt Thomas or Kwame aren't the "key" but they are steps towards adding size and depth picking from the very limited pool of attainable big men.
    I think from his previous post he thinks landing CP3 isn't realistic which I agree with. And even if we get him it doesn't address our defense & rebounding issues. If we do manage to get him, we're strapped financially for a long time.

  9. #39
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    I think from his previous post he thinks landing CP3 isn't realistic which I agree with. And even if we get him it doesn't address our defense & rebounding issues. If we do manage to get him, we're strapped financially for a long time.

    CP3 has to be the goal until proven otherwise. Trying to strike gold in the draft or get a decent center are equally long shots. It's simple really, you go after the best possible player available that fills a need. CP3 fits that criteria and would give us the most complimentary 3 star lineup in the league. At that point you can go for role players, draft picks or whatever needs we must fill.

  10. #40
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,004
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    CP3 has to be the goal until proven otherwise. Trying to strike gold in the draft or get a decent center are equally long shots. It's simple really, you go after the best possible player available that fills a need. CP3 fits that criteria and would give us the most complimentary 3 star lineup in the league. At that point you can go for role players, draft picks or whatever needs we must fill.
    CP3 would make the position a lot better, but that position isn't a need for us (Billups).

    If we're going for a superstar PG, Nash would make a lot more sense, because even if we TRADE for him his last year on his contract would be less. For let's say 1-3 years we would have a very fluent offense and giving us cap room for defensive players. Also, him and Dirk are the best shooters in the NBA. Having one of the best shooters, plus maybe the passer in the game doesn't hurt.

    Heck, if we get Nash through free agency we could sign Billups as our 2-guard.

    We shouldn't be looking to building a team to win NOW and several years in a row unless some amazing opportunity lands in our lap. With Nash/Billups or whatever, you can win NOW, and if Nash can't play that much anymore or whatever, guess what? Melo is only 27 and hasn't been injured most of his career. He's such a valuable superstar to have. It's not like if Nash can't play much after a year or two our team will be bad. In fact, our team could extend Nash's career.

    This is more than Nash, hopefully you get my point. A max contract PG would be a desperate move to build for a team winning multiple championships in the next few years. Yes, you build for at least a few years, but you have to make sure it's not just Finals appearances and HOPE whoever is our center is enough to win four games. Those four games won't be easy with three maxes or not.

    Do you think Chris Paul will improve a center's defense? Okafor is a good defender, and, well, ok, they played against the Lakers and the calls against him made him get the saddest look possible, understandably, but yeah. We're gonna need more than three max players. And if we do, Howard better be the third one.

    Edit: Also, if Nash leaves in a year or so, we'd have cap room still. We're in a good position.
    Last edited by RunningJumper; Jul 12, 2011 at 17:17.

  11. #41
    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,361
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    I think the point about wanting a C over 6'11 is you can't teach height. A guy that size can alter someone's shot by just standing up straight with their arms extended upward. A 6'8 guy doesn't have that luxury.
    Half the time Kwame Brown is caught out of position anyway. Just being tall doesn't cut it in the NBA. You also need to know what you're doing out there & how to effectively play in a team concept. Otherwise Timo Mozgov & Slavko Vranes would've been valid starting C options for us when we had them.

  12. #42
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    CP3 would make the position a lot better, but that position isn't a need for us (Billups).

    If we're going for a superstar PG, Nash would make a lot more sense, because even if we TRADE for him his last year on his contract would be less. For let's say 1-3 years we would have a very fluent offense and giving us cap room for defensive players. Also, him and Dirk are the best shooters in the NBA. Having one of the best shooters, plus maybe the passer in the game doesn't hurt.

    Heck, if we get Nash through free agency we could sign Billups as our 2-guard.

    We shouldn't be looking to building a team to win NOW and several years in a row unless some amazing opportunity lands in our lap. With Nash/Billups or whatever, you can win NOW, and if Nash can't play that much anymore or whatever, guess what? Melo is only 27 and hasn't been injured most of his career. He's such a valuable superstar to have. It's not like if Nash can't play much after a year or two our team will be bad. In fact, our team could extend Nash's career.

    This is more than Nash, hopefully you get my point. A max contract PG would be a desperate move to build for a team winning multiple championships in the next few years. Yes, you build for at least a few years, but you have to make sure it's not just Finals appearances and HOPE whoever is our center is enough to win four games. Those four games won't be easy with three maxes or not.

    Do you think Chris Paul will improve a center's defense? Okafor is a good defender, and, well, ok, they played against the Lakers and the calls against him made him get the saddest look possible, understandably, but yeah. We're gonna need more than three max players. And if we do, Howard better be the third one.

    Edit: Also, if Nash leaves in a year or so, we'd have cap room still. We're in a good position.
    No offense but your stance is crazy.


    PG is a need for us...Billiups is 34+ years old, couldn't stay healthy last year including the playoffs and is NOT our medium or long term solution at point. He is a veteran with a bloated expiring contract and is our one true asset to acquire talent via trades.

    Nash is the best choice!? Over getting CP3!? Your logic is flawed as getting Nash for an expiring is exactly what we have in Billiups and would only kick the pG problem down the road a year. I for one would much rather have a CP3 is his prime locked up for years than an aging Nash that in a year will need to be replaced.

    You have it backwards...going after Nash is the desperate move...not signing a top 3 PG in his prime! Once you have that core together you have a legit Big 3 in their prime and THEN you go looking for pieces to surround them. You don't go for the pieces when you don't know what your core will be and what needs they will have. Again, you grab the best players possible and then fill needs and patch holes in creative ways over the next few years.

  13. #43
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Half the time Kwame Brown is caught out of position anyway. Just being tall doesn't cut it in the NBA. You also need to know what you're doing out there & how to effectively play in a team concept. Otherwise Timo Mozgov & Slavko Vranes would've been valid starting C options for us when we had them.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't want Kwame on the Knicks under any circumstances. But Kwame & taller big men can alter shots just on their size & wing-span alone. That's a fact. I just want a center who can at least play 20 min a game to rebound, defend, & score garbage points under the basket.

  14. #44
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,004
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    No offense but your stance is crazy.


    PG is a need for us...Billiups is 34+ years old, couldn't stay healthy last year including the playoffs and is NOT our medium or long term solution at point. He is a veteran with a bloated expiring contract and is our one true asset to acquire talent via trades.

    Nash is the best choice!? Over getting CP3!? Your logic is flawed as getting Nash for an expiring is exactly what we have in Billiups and would only kick the pG problem down the road a year. I for one would much rather have a CP3 is his prime locked up for years than an aging Nash that in a year will need to be replaced.

    You have it backwards...going after Nash is the desperate move...not signing a top 3 PG in his prime! Once you have that core together you have a legit Big 3 in their prime and THEN you go looking for pieces to surround them. You don't go for the pieces when you don't know what your core will be and what needs they will have. Again, you grab the best players possible and then fill needs and patch holes in creative ways over the next few years.
    Billups isn't injury prone though. He got injured a couple of times after the trade and people think he can't stay on the court for very long. 34 isn't old anymore. Even at the speed he goes, he's still faster than Jason Kidd, who is still a key player.

    Nash would be a desperate move if you trade somebody such as Fields. I'm not saying we should make any big moves for him. As I said, we could get him in free agency also. He's still a superstar, just not hyped up as one.

    Doesn't Chris Paul's past injuries concern you? And Stoudemire's? I know getting all three of them would make it easier for three, then again, those three might be the only players good enough to do anything significant offensively.

    Did you watch him last season? I follow the Hornets cause I've been a fan of them since they were in Charlotte. It was frustrating watching him look like he didn't even care in the regular season. I'm not saying he didn't, he played that way. Do you wanna risk having 2/3 of our max players being an injury concern?

    Chris Paul can improve a center's offense, what's he gonna do about one's defense?

    I think outside of the box. I'm not saying "we need a good big man because history shows that's the only way to win championships" or anything like that. Why we do need another good center is because our defense isn't good to begin with, and when you don't have that much help to protect the paint on a team that's not good defensively, well, you have a problem.

  15. #45
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,004
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    Don't get me wrong, I don't want Kwame on the Knicks under any circumstances. But Kwame & taller big men can alter shots just on their size & wing-span alone. That's a fact. I just want a center who can at least play 20 min a game to rebound, defend, & score garbage points under the basket.
    Ben Wallace negates this.

Similar Threads

  1. Mike Brown wins Coach of the Year
    By JayJ44 in forum NBA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Apr 20, 2009, 22:32
  2. DOWN WITH BROWN!
    By donchris in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: May 16, 2006, 16:33
  3. If the Knicks want Brown, get rid of Marbury
    By Cakalusa in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Jul 29, 2005, 21:04
  4. Stromile Swift or Kwame Brown
    By nycefnl in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Jul 04, 2005, 12:01
  5. Larry Brown about KVH
    By allan20 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jul 29, 2003, 09:52

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •