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Thread: CENTER -vs- CP3 redux:

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    Question Mark CENTER -vs- CP3 redux:

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2

    To all of those who think we should forgo another max and get a center, I need you to answer a few questions.

    Who is this center that you want? Can he be acquired right now? Can he also be acquired with the MLE?
    It's about priorities. Get a center now either through FA, trade, or possibly draft next year

    -vs-

    banking on CP3 during 2012 free agency.

    For the purposes of this thread we WILL ASSUME:

    1. CP3 will command a MAX contract
    2. We don't have any idea about the new CBA
    3. IF CP3 CAN be had for Billups contract during the season we'd take it

    So lets go...

    Here is a list of the top 50 Centers:

    2010-2011 NBA Player Rankings
    Rnk Player Team GP MPG FG% FT% 3PT% Pts Reb Ast Blk St TO FIC FIC40 RV
    1 Dwight Howard ORL 84 38.0 .596 .604 .000 23.2 14.2 1.3 2.35 1.32 3.7 1669 20.9 +49
    2 Al Horford ATL 91 35.4 .537 .796 .333 14.7 9.3 3.4 1.01 0.74 1.5 1350 16.8 +259
    3 Al Jefferson UTA 82 35.9 .496 .761 .000 18.6 9.7 1.8 1.87 0.56 1.3 1209 16.4 +45
    4 Marc Gasol MEM 95 33.0 .525 .738 .333 12.2 7.6 2.4 1.73 0.93 1.8 1132 14.5 +427
    5 Tyson Chandler DAL 95 28.8 .640 .721 .000 9.6 9.3 0.4 1.04 0.52 1.1 1059 15.5 +45
    6 Nene Hilario DEN 80 30.7 .606 .696 .200 14.5 7.7 2.0 0.96 1.11 1.8 1024 16.7 +57
    7 Brook Lopez NJN 83 35.1 .492 .790 .000 20.4 5.9 1.6 1.45 0.58 2.1 936 12.9 +639
    8 Andrew Bogut MIL 65 35.3 .495 .442 .000 12.8 11.1 2.0 2.58 0.72 1.9 894 15.6 +61
    9 Joakim Noah CHI 64 32.9 .498 .736 .000 10.9 10.3 2.3 1.64 1.00 1.7 872 16.6 +465
    10 JaVale McGee WAS 79 27.8 .550 .583 .000 10.1 8.0 0.5 2.44 0.52 1.3 844 15.4 +1003
    11 Andrew Bynum LAL 64 28.4 .568 .686 .000 11.8 9.4 1.3 1.88 0.38 1.5 825 18.1 +28
    12 Roy Hibbert IND 86 27.6 .460 .743 .000 12.5 7.5 2.0 1.76 0.41 2.3 817 13.8 +925
    13 Marcus Camby POR 65 26.3 .402 .597 .500 4.6 10.2 2.0 1.55 0.68 1.0 710 16.6 +46
    14 DeAndre Jordan LAC 80 25.6 .686 .452 .000 7.1 7.2 0.5 1.77 0.51 1.3 708 13.8 +1848
    15 Samuel Dalembert SAC 80 24.2 .473 .730 .000 8.1 8.2 0.8 1.45 0.45 1.6 684 14.1 +23
    16 Spencer Hawes PHI 87 21.0 .457 .533 .237 7.0 5.6 1.5 0.84 0.33 1.2 545 11.9 +454
    17 Kwame Brown CHA 66 26.0 .517 .589 .000 7.9 6.8 0.7 0.59 0.39 1.0 482 11.2 +1811
    18 Darko Milicic MIN 70 24.4 .468 .556 .000 8.8 5.2 1.5 2.04 0.79 2.2 470 11.0 +269
    19 Brendan Haywood DAL 90 17.8 .575 .382 .000 4.2 5.0 0.3 1.02 0.20 0.7 453 11.3 +117
    20 Andris Biedrins GSW 59 23.7 .534 .323 .000 5.0 7.2 1.0 0.88 0.88 1.0 447 12.8 +66
    21 Nazr Mohammed OKC 89 16.0 .514 .582 .000 6.4 4.5 0.3 0.70 0.38 0.9 435 12.2 +111
    22 Ben Wallace DET 57 22.8 .459 .333 .500 2.9 6.4 1.4 0.95 1.00 0.8 431 13.3 +597
    23 Nenad Krstic BOS 78 20.9 .513 .772 .000 7.5 4.4 0.4 0.37 0.32 0.8 407 10.0 +161
    24 Ronny Turiaf NYK 70 17.9 .633 .618 .000 4.2 3.2 1.5 1.17 0.53 0.7 395 12.6 +260
    25 Brad Miller HOU 60 16.9 .446 .830 .374 6.4 3.7 2.4 0.35 0.47 0.9 393 15.5 +223
    26 Zaza Pachulia ATL 92 16.0 .458 .751 .000 4.3 4.3 0.8 0.25 0.39 0.9 391 10.6 +229
    27 Joel Anthony MIA 99 21.1 .480 .645 .000 2.2 3.7 0.4 1.38 0.18 0.5 384 7.4 +320
    28 Jeff Foster IND 61 16.9 .486 .536 .000 3.3 6.1 0.8 0.57 0.43 0.5 381 14.8 +106
    29 Zydrunas Ilgauskas MIA 82 15.4 .504 .769 .000 4.9 3.9 0.4 0.76 0.28 0.7 338 10.7 +906
    30 Chris Kaman LAC 32 26.2 .471 .754 .000 12.4 7.0 1.4 1.50 0.50 1.8 290 13.9 +15
    31 Kendrick Perkins OKC 46 26.5 .495 .562 .000 5.5 7.3 0.8 0.85 0.28 1.8 276 9.0 +102
    32 Shaquille O'Neal BOS 42 19.4 .671 .538 .000 8.8 4.6 0.7 1.00 0.45 1.5 272 13.4 +0
    33 Robin Lopez PHX 67 14.8 .501 .740 .000 6.4 3.2 0.1 0.67 0.27 0.7 261 10.5 +615
    34 Ryan Hollins CLE 72 16.9 .599 .688 .000 5.4 2.7 0.4 0.61 0.32 1.0 239 7.9 +469
    35 Johan Petro NJN 79 11.8 .450 .536 .000 3.6 2.8 0.6 0.46 0.44 0.6 208 8.9 +305
    36 Erick Dampier MIA 51 16.0 .584 .545 .000 2.5 3.5 0.4 0.92 0.27 0.6 201 9.9 +1722
    37 Aaron Gray NOH 47 13.1 .580 .476 .000 3.2 4.1 0.4 0.30 0.28 0.8 163 10.6 +1125
    38 Jermaine O'Neal BOS 36 18.9 .452 .694 .000 5.4 4.0 0.6 1.42 0.11 1.1 147 8.6 +117
    39 Timofey Mozgov DEN 47 11.8 .482 .714 .000 3.7 2.7 0.4 0.60 0.36 0.9 131 9.5 +246
    40 Francisco Elson UTA 62 9.8 .478 .839 .000 2.2 1.9 0.5 0.23 0.34 0.5 127 8.3 +1287
    41 Kosta Koufos DEN 52 8.4 .457 .558 .000 3.1 2.5 0.1 0.48 0.19 0.6 126 11.6 +809
    42 Hilton Armstrong ATL 61 8.6 .469 .487 .500 1.6 2.3 0.2 0.34 0.34 0.5 120 9.2 +1275
    43 Dan Gadzuric GSW 42 11.0 .419 .370 .000 2.8 3.2 0.3 0.69 0.31 0.7 112 9.7 +61
    44 Joel Przybilla POR 36 14.4 .568 .518 .000 1.8 4.0 0.4 0.42 0.14 0.8 103 7.9 +49
    45 Jason Collins ATL 62 12.2 .506 .608 1.000 1.9 2.0 0.4 0.19 0.23 0.5 88 4.7 +1230
    46 DJ Mbenga NOH 46 7.7 .490 .700 .000 1.4 2.0 0.2 0.63 0.15 0.5 87 9.8 +1228
    47 Hamed Haddadi MEM 41 5.1 .479 .677 .000 2.2 2.0 0.1 0.44 0.07 0.4 86 16.4 +603
    48 Alexis Ajinca DAL 34 10.0 .444 .722 .353 4.2 2.3 0.3 0.56 0.32 0.5 85 10.0 +660
    49 Melvin Ely DEN 30 12.2 .549 .619 .000 2.3 2.5 0.5 0.37 0.13 0.5 75 8.2 +1187
    50 Kyrylo Fesenko UTA 53 8.6 .440 .391 .000 2.0 2.0 0.3 0.30 0.08 0.5 71 6.2 +911


    Read more: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Reasons why we should prioritize a center above targeting a MAX PG free agent next year:

    1. We already have 2 Max contract scorers
    2. We suck a$$ on defense
    3. MOA sucks a$$ on defense and needs a center to compensate for his incompetence and lack of teaching ability
    4. A center should be cheaper providing more options
    5. Amare is better stats wise next to a center allowing him to play his natural position
    6. Top ten defensive teams are more likely to win chips
    7. A center can and should impact a teams defense more than a PG
    8. Centers are rarer than PG's
    9. Two max scorers who lack defense need a center more than a star PG
    10. MOA probably won't be here as the FO has little to no confidence in him, stop advancing his agenda while we can
    11. We can compete now rather than going through another transition year hoping
    12. We would learn from our mistakes
    13. Its been ten years since we had a viable center
    14. We could attract better talent once we prove we can play defense
    15. Who wants Jared Jeffries getting that pass under the hoop for a game winner?


    LET'S GET IT ON!

  2. #2
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    Default Transplanted from the Kwame Brown Thread

    Many facets to consider and we can start with your question...

    The argument as you stated is really putting our eggs in one basket (PG), or spreading the wealth to acquire possibly more than one player- starting with a center.

    We can name centers who are available through FA, centers who we covet based on their skill set, and future projected FA.

    IT's about the approach. Once we decide on the approach (really priorities) then choices can be made.

    CP3 is NOT worth standing pat would mean...

    We can shop/trade for a center who matches contracts either alone or combined between Billups, Fields, TD, Turiaf, Rautins, Shump, Balkman, or Jorts.

    In effect it saying (admitting) NONE of these players is a keeper. EVERYONE of theses players (including a 2nd round pick if we still have that) is expendable and SHOULD be prioritized less than A STARTING CENTER.

    You see? Then like ALL THE CP3 supporters are willing to concede... we will have to fill out our roster with cheap role players/vets.

    THE DIFFERENCE IS: by sacrificing an EXPENDABLE player for a STARTER the replacement [filler] can be another expendable player (non starter).

    SO the list of possible centers is longer than you think. BUT the point is it starts by ADMITTING a starting center minus ANYONE but STat & Melo would be better both long and short term.



    I've covered this above your post. Again it's about prioritizing. Right now with Stat & Melo (and all the historical quantitative data available) we are arguing what's best for them NOW...

    A Starting Center
    A Max Starting PG on the horizon.

    Both have built-in sacrifices.

    The last point I would like to make is this...

    Earlier this year before we traded Felton Gallo and co. we were proposing trades.

    I proposed trading Gallo, Curry, (maybe Chandler and more)- whoever matched contracts $, but basically the same trade we made BUT FOR ANDREW BYNUM.

    I know some were/are saying the Lakers wouldn't do it etc... I offered reasons why they might consider it. Gallo was emerging, Chandler could help, maybe Felton could replace Fisher, they still had Pau, Bynum's contract was ending, etc...

    People said he was injury prone, some LIKE TRILL considered it.

    BUT HERE'S MY POINT.

    WE acquired MELO for basically that exact same trade (!!!!!), and I know partly because MELO forced his way, but look at it like this....

    A team would rather get rid of a top prolific scorer and get depth and some scoring in return than a big like Bynum who is still very young. Not exactly cheap but cheaper than Melo.

    In effect, if you argued that the Lakers wouldn't do this... then you are arguing the point that a CENTER is probably the most coveted position on WINNING squads- short of being led by Michael Jordan.

    Think about that.

    Prioritize the center, get creative, sacrifice whoever/whatever besides STAT & MELO to continue building our core with a less than MAX center and let the rest follow.

    Open your eyes to the possibility to a viable center to continue our positive direction. All we need is a team to bite. we have time, so don't assume its CP3 or bust just yet.

    Think about that.

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    Wow, the list shows how weak the center position is in the NBA. Dwight Howard should not even be mentioned with the rest of those guys.

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    Very long post to state the obvious.

    Yeah we need a center.

    We also need a real point guard to get the offense flowing like it should.

    We aren't getting a center in a draft.

    Most of the top bigs on your list will most likely stay with their current teams, or are totally unavailable, plus that list make the center look awful.

    Vets min at center, then give me CP3.

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    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    Vets min at center, then give me CP3.
    Co-sign that **it

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Let me begin by just stating the obvious... again.

    Other than Howard, none of those guys are worth acquiring before CP3. Period.

    You seriously have to stop this..

    It's just foolishness at this point.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jul 17, 2011 at 10:45.

  7. #7
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    NBA Player Rankings
    Rnk Player Team GP MPG FG% FT% 3PT% Pts Reb Ast Blk St TO FIC FIC40 RV
    1 Dwight Howard ORL 84 38.0 .596 .604 .000 23.2 14.2 1.3 2.35 1.32 3.7 1669 20.9 +49
    2 Al Horford ATL 91 35.4 .537 .796 .333 14.7 9.3 3.4 1.01 0.74 1.5 1350 16.8 +259
    3 Al Jefferson UTA 82 35.9 .496 .761 .000 18.6 9.7 1.8 1.87 0.56 1.3 1209 16.4 +45
    4 Marc Gasol MEM 95 33.0 .525 .738 .333 12.2 7.6 2.4 1.73 0.93 1.8 1132 14.5 +427
    5 Tyson Chandler DAL 95 28.8 .640 .721 .000 9.6 9.3 0.4 1.04 0.52 1.1 1059 15.5 +45
    6 Nene Hilario DEN 80 30.7 .606 .696 .200 14.5 7.7 2.0 0.96 1.11 1.8 1024 16.7 +57
    7 Brook Lopez NJN 83 35.1 .492 .790 .000 20.4 5.9 1.6 1.45 0.58 2.1 936 12.9 +639
    8 Andrew Bogut MIL 65 35.3 .495 .442 .000 12.8 11.1 2.0 2.58 0.72 1.9 894 15.6 +61
    9 Joakim Noah CHI 64 32.9 .498 .736 .000 10.9 10.3 2.3 1.64 1.00 1.7 872 16.6 +465
    10 JaVale McGee WAS 79 27.8 .550 .583 .000 10.1 8.0 0.5 2.44 0.52 1.3 844 15.4 +1003
    11 Andrew Bynum LAL 64 28.4 .568 .686 .000 11.8 9.4 1.3 1.88 0.38 1.5 825 18.1 +28
    12 Roy Hibbert IND 86 27.6 .460 .743 .000 12.5 7.5 2.0 1.76 0.41 2.3 817 13.8 +925
    13 Marcus Camby POR 65 26.3 .402 .597 .500 4.6 10.2 2.0 1.55 0.68 1.0 710 16.6 +46
    14 DeAndre Jordan LAC 80 25.6 .686 .452 .000 7.1 7.2 0.5 1.77 0.51 1.3 708 13.8 +1848
    15 Samuel Dalembert SAC 80 24.2 .473 .730 .000 8.1 8.2 0.8 1.45 0.45 1.6 684 14.1 +23
    16 Spencer Hawes PHI 87 21.0 .457 .533 .237 7.0 5.6 1.5 0.84 0.33 1.2 545 11.9 +454
    17 Kwame Brown CHA 66 26.0 .517 .589 .000 7.9 6.8 0.7 0.59 0.39 1.0 482 11.2 +1811
    18 Darko Milicic MIN 70 24.4 .468 .556 .000 8.8 5.2 1.5 2.04 0.79 2.2 470 11.0 +269
    19 Brendan Haywood DAL 90 17.8 .575 .382 .000 4.2 5.0 0.3 1.02 0.20 0.7 453 11.3 +117
    20 Andris Biedrins GSW 59 23.7 .534 .323 .000 5.0 7.2 1.0 0.88 0.88 1.0 447 12.8 +66
    21 Nazr Mohammed OKC 89 16.0 .514 .582 .000 6.4 4.5 0.3 0.70 0.38 0.9 435 12.2 +111
    22 Ben Wallace DET 57 22.8 .459 .333 .500 2.9 6.4 1.4 0.95 1.00 0.8 431 13.3 +597
    23 Nenad Krstic BOS 78 20.9 .513 .772 .000 7.5 4.4 0.4 0.37 0.32 0.8 407 10.0 +161
    24 Ronny Turiaf NYK 70 17.9 .633 .618 .000 4.2 3.2 1.5 1.17 0.53 0.7 395 12.6 +260
    25 Brad Miller HOU 60 16.9 .446 .830 .374 6.4 3.7 2.4 0.35 0.47 0.9 393 15.5 +223
    26 Zaza Pachulia ATL 92 16.0 .458 .751 .000 4.3 4.3 0.8 0.25 0.39 0.9 391 10.6 +229
    27 Joel Anthony MIA 99 21.1 .480 .645 .000 2.2 3.7 0.4 1.38 0.18 0.5 384 7.4 +320
    28 Jeff Foster IND 61 16.9 .486 .536 .000 3.3 6.1 0.8 0.57 0.43 0.5 381 14.8 +106
    29 Zydrunas Ilgauskas MIA 82 15.4 .504 .769 .000 4.9 3.9 0.4 0.76 0.28 0.7 338 10.7 +906
    30 Chris Kaman LAC 32 26.2 .471 .754 .000 12.4 7.0 1.4 1.50 0.50 1.8 290 13.9 +15
    31 Kendrick Perkins OKC 46 26.5 .495 .562 .000 5.5 7.3 0.8 0.85 0.28 1.8 276 9.0 +102
    32 Shaquille O'Neal BOS 42 19.4 .671 .538 .000 8.8 4.6 0.7 1.00 0.45 1.5 272 13.4 +0
    33 Robin Lopez PHX 67 14.8 .501 .740 .000 6.4 3.2 0.1 0.67 0.27 0.7 261 10.5 +615
    34 Ryan Hollins CLE 72 16.9 .599 .688 .000 5.4 2.7 0.4 0.61 0.32 1.0 239 7.9 +469
    35 Johan Petro NJN 79 11.8 .450 .536 .000 3.6 2.8 0.6 0.46 0.44 0.6 208 8.9 +305
    36 Erick Dampier MIA 51 16.0 .584 .545 .000 2.5 3.5 0.4 0.92 0.27 0.6 201 9.9 +1722
    37 Aaron Gray NOH 47 13.1 .580 .476 .000 3.2 4.1 0.4 0.30 0.28 0.8 163 10.6 +1125
    38 Jermaine O'Neal BOS 36 18.9 .452 .694 .000 5.4 4.0 0.6 1.42 0.11 1.1 147 8.6 +117
    39 Timofey Mozgov DEN 47 11.8 .482 .714 .000 3.7 2.7 0.4 0.60 0.36 0.9 131 9.5 +246
    40 Francisco Elson UTA 62 9.8 .478 .839 .000 2.2 1.9 0.5 0.23 0.34 0.5 127 8.3 +1287
    41 Kosta Koufos DEN 52 8.4 .457 .558 .000 3.1 2.5 0.1 0.48 0.19 0.6 126 11.6 +809
    42 Hilton Armstrong ATL 61 8.6 .469 .487 .500 1.6 2.3 0.2 0.34 0.34 0.5 120 9.2 +1275
    43 Dan Gadzuric GSW 42 11.0 .419 .370 .000 2.8 3.2 0.3 0.69 0.31 0.7 112 9.7 +61
    44 Joel Przybilla POR 36 14.4 .568 .518 .000 1.8 4.0 0.4 0.42 0.14 0.8 103 7.9 +49
    45 Jason Collins ATL 62 12.2 .506 .608 1.000 1.9 2.0 0.4 0.19 0.23 0.5 88 4.7 +1230
    46 DJ Mbenga NOH 46 7.7 .490 .700 .000 1.4 2.0 0.2 0.63 0.15 0.5 87 9.8 +1228
    47 Hamed Haddadi MEM 41 5.1 .479 .677 .000 2.2 2.0 0.1 0.44 0.07 0.4 86 16.4 +603
    48 Alexis Ajinca DAL 34 10.0 .444 .722 .353 4.2 2.3 0.3 0.56 0.32 0.5 85 10.0 +660
    49 Melvin Ely DEN 30 12.2 .549 .619 .000 2.3 2.5 0.5 0.37 0.13 0.5 75 8.2 +1187
    50 Kyrylo Fesenko UTA 53 8.6 .440 .391 .000 2.0 2.0 0.3 0.30 0.08 0.5 71 6.2 +911
    I stopped reading the list after it showed Nenad Kristic, Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes in front of Kenderick Perkins and Chris Kaman.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    I stopped reading the list after it showed Nenad Kristic, Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes in front of Kenderick Perkins and Chris Kaman.
    Yea, there are definitely some issues re where some of the players are positioned. Why is Bogut not in the top 5?

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    Very good post. Seems to be the two main areas we need to upgrade -- center and future PG moving forward. I think about it all the time and I just don't know what the solution is. Took me a little bit but I've become a believer in Shumpert --- I think with Shumpert & Douglas, we look pretty good at PG right now...Center looks like more of a talent void to me between the two positions..Do we go out and burn most if not all existing cap room on a halfway decent center now and say F-it, let's go for it, the clock is ticking for Amar'e & Melo OR do we play it much more conservative (esp. not knowing what the new CBA will be) and look for low-cost options at C, leaving the bulk of the cap room intact for another top FA next summer.

    Gun to my head, and maybe I'm wrong, I saw go for the latter and target a capable, low-salary option at center for the time being and conserve the cap room for one more year. What's another year?? STAT and Melo will still be in their prime (esp. Melo who's 2 yrs younger than Stoudemire) and the team as a whole will only be one step closer to something big (thinking about how all the ancillary pieces will all have another year under their belts and should improve -- TD, Shumpert, Fields, etc.)..

    First off, we need to figure out what Jordan and Jorts are all about and if they're NBA players. I mean, I keep calling for Dwayne Jones for his size and rebounding but maybe there's no need for him. Maybe Jordan and/or Harrellson are just as good. Maybe Jordan develops into a halfway decent skill C and Harrellson develops into a viable tough/imposing presence. Maybe in 2012 when Turiaf comes off the cap, Jordan/Jorts will be enough to both man the position together. I tell ya, not having summer league/training camp just KILLED US this year. We really needed it this year more than ever..It doesn't seem like a lot of time to evaluate players but it is. It was with Landry Fields..Hopefully the league and the players' assoc. get this crap ironed out soon where at least the regular season starts on time. Then we'd have no choice but to use the first few weeks of the season for evaluation. I mean what else could we do? What other choices will we have? Send both Jordan and Jorts to Erie right away to play and develop? I guess we could do that, but then who helps out Turiaf and Amar'e? We already saw last year, Turiaf/Amar'e isn't enough on the interior, esp. with regard to rebounding the ball. Not nearly enough. But I don't think we need to blow our load on a Marc Gasol-type either. To me, Marc Gasol or even a DeAndre Jordan does not equal championship which is why I'd refrain from doing something like that now (and I understand both Memphis and the LAC will probably keep both guys, just talking hypothetical for a second --- I mean that "type" of player where we will have to commit fairly significant funds to secure and then not have those funds there for 2012 when it'll count and much better players will be available).

    Unless we could convince a guy like Sammy Dalembert to take a 1-yr deal (where maybe we overpay for that 1 yr a-la Chris Duhon to entice him -- though I couldn't see Dalembert settling for a 1-yr deal at this point in his career. Someone out there will offer more than that, more years), I say stay the course for 1 more season, as tough as that sounds, and keep the funds open for a real difference maker. To me, Marc Gasol or a DeAndre Jordan ARE NOT on the same level as a Chris Paul. And if we blow our load now, we won't even be in the running for a player like that..Go back to the summer of 2010 for a sec., actually up to a yr before that. Can you imagine if we pulled an Isiah Thomas and blew the cap room on marginal players instead of trading guys and creating cap room for Amar'e Stoudemire? I mean where would we be then? Donnie created a situation where we had cap room for 2 max guys. He got one of them and then offered the other spot to LeBron James. To me, despite James pussin' out and declining to come here, the plan was a rousing success. But can you imagine where we'd be if Donnie came in here and decided the way to go would've been to stick with and extend guys like Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph? Forget about it..That's why I'm so interested in 2012. We targeted 2010 and completely turned this franchise around..I'm willing to be patient and wait for 2012 and not blow our cap room on marginal talent now. To me, the proof is in the pudding -- it was a completely sound idea that worked 100% in 2010. It could work again..

    Haing said that (and forgive me for rambling), go the low-cost, quick fix route now, if only for 1 more yr. This is how I'd look to "quick fix" the frontcourt right now and infuse with some good talent at a good price:

    • Sign Marcus Cousin if Houston ever cuts him loose. My gut tells me they keep him, esp with Yao retiring, but you never know. This is my #1 C option on the cheap we could possibly get if he ever becomes available. We absolutely **** THE BED last year -- instead of fooling around with the completely useless Jared Jeffries, we could've gotten this guy, a legit C with plus skills, youth & upside. Cousin was available at different times last yr and we never showed any interest at all, even with the glaring need at center. I still to this day can't swallow it. Complete mistake. I can only hope Daryl Morey cuts him loose and the Knicks scoop him up. This guy's a factor in the NBA if he ever gets the proper PT, whether it's in Houston or somewhere else. Bank on it. I can only pray Houston has no idea what they really have with this kid and they cut him.

    • Sign Dwayne Jones for his size and rebounding ability. Jordan/Jorts may be enough; then again they may not be. I'd like Mike to have 1 more C in the mix. To me, this guy would be perfect. Good size at 6"11" 250+ and he's been a deluxe rebounder wherever he's been and gotten PT. Turiaf and Amar'e together just aren't a good rebounding tandem at all. I don't get the feeling Jerome Jordan will be much of a factor on the glass either..Jorts could be, but the rest of his game may not be anywhere near NBA-ready...Jones would help. He brings a top-notch skill we could absolutely use. He's a round peg that fits in our round hole.

    • Sign Jeff Adrien. He was cut by GS a couple of weeks ago before the lockout and is available. Not saying he's Ken Faried, he probably isn't, but he's close to that type of player. Rebounding and toughness. We could use him. Go get him. Bottom line, I'd rather have Shumpert AND Adrien over Faried by himself.

    • Sign either Joe Alexander or DeShawn Sims. Outside of Amar'e, what other big on this roster can score the ball in the post (and I'm not talking Melo---BIGS)? Answer: no one. Each one of these guys can. Alexander's a world-class athlete with decent skills; Sims probably has a more defined game with his post-up ability and 3-pt shooting. Both guys were awesome in the D-league last year and have considerable upside..Either guy would greatly improve the bench and the frontcourt as a whole.

    • They need to figure out what direction to go at backup 3 -- either bring Shawne Williams back or, if he holds us up for too much money, I'd go out on a limb and bring in either Jamelle Horne or Tim Abromaitis (in that order) for that role. We could get either guy for peanuts. Both guys have good ability and could replace Williams' outside shooting off the bench, probably for far less money. Either guy could be even better than Williams actually.

    Dwayne Jones (Cousin's a long shot -- I'm assuming he won't be available)
    Jeff Adrien
    Alexander or Sims
    Williams, Horne or Abromaitis

    Those are the guys we should be considering right now. Buy out Renaldo Balkman if need be to open up a roster spot. Maybe Derrick Brown too (honestly, I don't see how this guy fits at all unless they grabbed him to be a future trade asset)..Go this route, add talent on the cheap for the time being, and continue to keep both eyes on 2012 FA. That'd be my plan. I think that's the way to go.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jul 17, 2011 at 17:31.

  10. #10
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    Very good post. Seems to be the two main areas we need to upgrade -- center and future PG moving forward. I think about it all the time and I just don't know what the solution is. Took me a little bit but I've become a believer in Shumpert --- I think with Shumpert & Douglas, we look pretty good at PG right now...Center looks like more of a talent void to me between the two positions..Do we go out and burn most if not all existing cap room on a halfway decent center now and say F-it, let's go for it, the clock is ticking for Amar'e & Melo OR do we play it much more conservative (esp. not knowing what the new CBA will be) and look for low-cost options at C, leaving the bulk of the cap room intact for another top FA next summer.

    Gun to my head, and maybe I'm wrong, I saw go for the latter and target a capable, low-salary option at center for the time being and conserve the cap room for one more year. What's another year?? STAT and Melo will still be in their prime (esp. Melo who's 2 yrs younger than Stoudemire) and the team as a whole will only be one step closer to something big (thinking about how all the ancillary pieces will all have another year under their belts and should improve -- TD, Shumpert, Fields, etc.)..
    If we can trade anyone except Billups, Stat & Melo, for a center we would still have 14mil expiring coming off the cap.

    If we get picks and can draft one, we'll have enough for CP3, although development will be an issue.

    If we can get a Nash & Lopez we will have another expiring with some service from the two positions we need.

    Gonna need someone, better decide our approach or it'll be wait til' next year, year after year...

    and i agree... we still have some evaluating to do with our youngsters Jordan, Shump, Fields, and Jort

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    The only possible trade I can think of that we can offer up right now that might land us a decent C without giving up any of our big 3 is something along the lines of Landry Fields, Turiaf & Jorts for Javale McGee, but who's to say the Wizards would even be interested in trading their young C away, especially to help out a conference rival team that will be fighting for a playoff spot too? Otherwise we could probably offer up a similar package to try & land Greg Oden from POR, but he comes with his own set of big question marks too. I'm sure we can talk about hypothetical trade scenarios all day long if we really wanted to, but we have no way of knowing how realistic those ideas are. All we can do is deal in the here & now, & what we can control right now is who we decide to target in free agency this summer. Our options are very limited because of our cap situation, all of us need to realize that.

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    Everyone on that list from 16 down can be acquired with the MLE, and everyone from 15 up is unavailable unless Dwight forces a trade here, or signs with us. We'll know if there is or isn't an MLE long before we make any sort of moves, because for a move to be made...there has to be a CBA. If there is an MLE...we can get CP3, and anyone on that list 16-50 (barring the ones no longer in the league.)

    I'm still not getting it.

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    I would take Kaman. Plays on both sides of the floor and wouldn't demand a max. Kaman/Turiaf would be nice.

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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    Very long post to state the obvious.

    Yeah we need a center.

    We also need a real point guard to get the offense flowing like it should.

    We aren't getting a center in a draft.

    Most of the top bigs on your list will most likely stay with their current teams, or are totally unavailable, plus that list make the center look awful.

    Vets min at center, then give me CP3.

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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    Very long post to state the obvious.

    Yeah we need a center.

    We also need a real point guard to get the offense flowing like it should.

    We aren't getting a center in a draft.

    Most of the top bigs on your list will most likely stay with their current teams, or are totally unavailable, plus that list make the center look awful.

    Vets min at center, then give me CP3.
    Yea thats what you get when everyone thinks they a GM or B.B. Analyst but, hey it kills time and some of them are actually good reads.

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