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Thread: CENTER -vs- CP3 redux:

  1. #16
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Everyone on that list from 16 down can be acquired with the MLE, and everyone from 15 up is unavailable unless Dwight forces a trade here, or signs with us. We'll know if there is or isn't an MLE long before we make any sort of moves, because for a move to be made...there has to be a CBA. If there is an MLE...we can get CP3, and anyone on that list 16-50 (barring the ones no longer in the league.)

    I'm still not getting it.

  2. #17
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Nah... I'm not beefing that we got Melo. I was showing the Value of a star like Melo was near if not less than a youngster center like Bynum (to those who thought the Lakers wouldn't do that)

    I know it was hypothetical, I was just making a point- that we couldn't even get a player like Bynum for the same price as a Melo.

    Ron, stop spinning this into your own argument. We all agree who'd we rather have. We all agree CP3 is better than mostly the entire center list in terms of talent. No one is saying different.

    As expressed above it's the priority of acquiring a max CP3 contract above a center given our situation. Don't be silly.



    Lol.. I'm not spinning anything into my argument.

    Look the only reason why anyone would advocate we wait on acquiring a C now is because there happen to be more talented players that will be available later. Talent... that is the central motivation for what many on the board, including myself, are proposing. It's the biggest factor in this whole redundant discussion. Nothing silly about that. There you go again arguing in circles. Nice.

    Players A,B and C are better than what's available now and we will have the space, barring major CBA changes, so we wait. Simple.

    You want us to overpay for a C now while simultaneously flushing our hopes at having a legit great player in 2012. finestr put this beautifully actually w re to Isiah's infamous moves and it's exactly what you're proposing.

    You're on some Isiah Thomas type-ish Red.. Wake up! You get the best player here. Just check the rest at the door.

    Your over-complicating this shet and it's making you sound like an idiot.

  3. #18
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
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    Put this guy in the starting lineup or make him Amare's backup. He is a good start to addressing our defense & rebounding deficiencies.


  4. #19
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    I would take Kaman. Plays on both sides of the floor and wouldn't demand a max. Kaman/Turiaf would be nice.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    Put this guy in the starting lineup or make him Amare's backup. He is a good start to addressing our defense & rebounding deficiencies.

    Good call. I'm with ya bro. I'd take a chance on him too.

  6. #21
    Member keyser soze's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    Very long post to state the obvious.

    Yeah we need a center.

    We also need a real point guard to get the offense flowing like it should.

    We aren't getting a center in a draft.

    Most of the top bigs on your list will most likely stay with their current teams, or are totally unavailable, plus that list make the center look awful.

    Vets min at center, then give me CP3.

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    Put this guy in the starting lineup or make him Amare's backup. He is a good start to addressing our defense & rebounding deficiencies.

    I bet he is hungry to get back to the league as well.

    What I like most about the video, is that most of those blocks stayed in bounds, towards a team mate.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a BLOCK PARTY on the court.

  8. #23
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    I bet he is hungry to get back to the league as well.

    What I like most about the video, is that most of those blocks stayed in bounds, towards a team mate.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a BLOCK PARTY on the court.
    I know! He's only 24 too. He averaged 13 pts 9 boards & 3 blocks a game last season in the D-League.

  9. #24
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    Let's take a chance on him. He's a D-Leaguer and can't be worse than Jared Jeffries.

  10. #25
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red

    In effect, if you argued that the Lakers wouldn't do this... then you are arguing the point that a CENTER is probably the most coveted position on WINNING squads- short of being led by Michael Jordan.

    Think about that.

    Prioritize the center, get creative, sacrifice whoever/whatever besides STAT & MELO to continue building our core with a less than MAX center and let the rest follow.

    Open your eyes to the possibility to a viable center to continue our positive direction. All we need is a team to bite. we have time, so don't assume its CP3 or bust just yet.

    Think about that.


    A strong/dominant front court is the epitome of modern basketball's recipe for success.

    The blueprint for success in modern basketball was drawn up in the mid 90s. There was, of course, the exemption of Michael Jordan's Bulls teams in their second stretch of 3 consecutive 'chips. That's not been the case since. The Heat have a very good chance of emulating it, but as we saw in this most recent finals series, the Mavs waved the winning banner for depth and size VS an imbalance of 3 max contracts and small, cheap ones in abundance to round out the remainder.

    Pretty simple stuff.

    We don't need Chris Paul.

    We need the content of a modern, winning basketball team.

    Depth, traditional approach, size, defence.

    Can we get the center we want? No, we can't. Not right now anyway. But that doesn't mean that toying with an ineffective supporting cast is worth chasing the new school approach to success. And no, Boston do not count as a successful Big 3 team comparatively with Miami, even if their 3 is spread across the same positions.

    We have 2 stars, we need to give them the leaning post of a reliable, deep set of role players.

    We, very simply, have a roster that is propped for greatness as we are. In the words of Chauncey Billups, "we need more role players, not more stars."

  11. #26
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    A strong/dominant front court is the epitome of modern basketball's recipe for success.

    The blueprint for success in modern basketball was drawn up in the mid 90s. There was, of course, the exemption of Michael Jordan's Bulls teams in their second stretch of 3 consecutive 'chips. That's not been the case since. The Heat have a very good chance of emulating it, but as we saw in this most recent finals series, the Mavs waved the winning banner for depth and size VS an imbalance of 3 max contracts and small, cheap ones in abundance to round out the remainder.

    Pretty simple stuff.

    We don't need Chris Paul.

    We need the content of a modern, winning basketball team.

    Depth, traditional approach, size, defence.

    Can we get the center we want? No, we can't. Not right now anyway. But that doesn't mean that toying with an ineffective supporting cast is worth chasing the new school approach to success. And no, Boston do not count as a successful Big 3 team comparatively with Miami, even if their 3 is spread across the same positions.

    We have 2 stars, we need to give them the leaning post of a reliable, deep set of role players.

    We, very simply, have a roster that is propped for greatness as we are. In the words of Chauncey Billups, "we need more role players, not more stars."
    Amen!

  12. #27
    Member NYallDay's Avatar
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    Are you talking about the Dallas Mavs that won the chip this year? The Dallas Mavs with great depth and size and roleplayers like Marrion, Jet, Haywood, Chandler, Barea....? They made a combined 38 Million in 2010. Role players and athletic bigs come at a premium too. Unless you get a barea who was unproven before this year or a Landry, you're not getting great role players for the cheap.
    And by the way, it took Dallas how long to get the chip? Almost a decade! I dont want to wait a decade to develop and try to mix and match role players with Melo/Stat (Ask Dwight how thas workin out for him down in Orlando).
    The Heat put together 3 stars and in their first year, they were 2 wins away from winning the chip and most likely favored to win it all this coming year. How hard is that for people to understand? CP3 is better for the success of our team. Sign that sh*t!

    As for the Bulls of the 90s...
    Their 1998 Salaries

    1 Michael Jordan $33,140,000
    2 Ron Harper $4,560,000
    3 Toni Kukoc $4,560,000
    4 Dennis Rodman $4,500,000
    5 Luc Longley $3,184,900
    6 Scottie Pippen $2,775,000
    7 Bill Wennington $1,800,000
    8 Scott Burrell $1,430,000
    9 Randy Brown $1,260,000
    10 Robert Parish $1,150,000
    11 Jason Caffey $850,920
    12 Steve Kerr $750,000
    13 Keith Booth $597,600
    14 Jud Buechler $500,000
    15 Joe Kleine $272,250

    I shouldnt have to even say anymore....but for those who still dont get it:....its easy to sign roleplayers when Scottie Pippen makes 2.75 mil and Rodman makes 4.5 mil, when the best 3 pt shooter in the nba Kerr makes 750k!!. Times have changed! Kareem Abdul Jabaar didnt make that much more than Kurt Rambis, Joe Dumars didnt make alot more than Rodman or John Salley.But in todays NBA, the superstars demand the absolute MAX and you can go 2 routes. Either build a team with 1 star and surround him with top level Tier 2 type of talent such as Dallas did with Dirk this year, such as the Spurs wid with TD giving him Manu and Parker OR go all out with the top guns in the league and let the chips fall where they may. We've already decided to get 2 superstars in their absolute prime....we need to roll the dice.




    Originally Posted by Red
    Amen!
    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    A strong/dominant front court is the epitome of modern basketball's recipe for success.

    The blueprint for success in modern basketball was drawn up in the mid 90s. There was, of course, the exemption of Michael Jordan's Bulls teams in their second stretch of 3 consecutive 'chips. That's not been the case since. The Heat have a very good chance of emulating it, but as we saw in this most recent finals series, the Mavs waved the winning banner for depth and size VS an imbalance of 3 max contracts and small, cheap ones in abundance to round out the remainder.

    Pretty simple stuff.

    We don't need Chris Paul.

    We need the content of a modern, winning basketball team.

    Depth, traditional approach, size, defence.

    Can we get the center we want? No, we can't. Not right now anyway. But that doesn't mean that toying with an ineffective supporting cast is worth chasing the new school approach to success. And no, Boston do not count as a successful Big 3 team comparatively with Miami, even if their 3 is spread across the same positions.

    We have 2 stars, we need to give them the leaning post of a reliable, deep set of role players.

    We, very simply, have a roster that is propped for greatness as we are. In the words of Chauncey Billups, "we need more role players, not more stars."

  13. #28
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    DJ Mbenga would be a good center. built like Howard, can run the floor. just needs more of a fluid offensive game.

  14. #29
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    No offense but this premise is just idiotic and flies in the face of fundamental principles! You get the best player period as long as it fills a need. Advocating passing up CP3 who is a legit superstar AND fills a need in order to go after Center X(can't even articulate who and how) is just a nonsensical poorly thought out position.

    The Knicks need to trade for CP3 and then start to get creative on role players, taking chances with vets and looking for diamonds in the ruff. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush! Cp3 can be that bird in our hands and passing up on that for a chance at a few unknown role players is absurd.

  15. #30
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    No offense but this premise is just idiotic and flies in the face of fundamental principles! You get the best player period as long as it fills a need. Advocating passing up CP3 who is a legit superstar AND fills a need in order to go after Center X(can't even articulate who and how) is just a nonsensical poorly thought out position.

    The Knicks need to trade for CP3 and then start to get creative on role players, taking chances with vets and looking for diamonds in the ruff. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush! Cp3 can be that bird in our hands and passing up on that for a chance at a few unknown role players is absurd.
    The premise is based on the FACT that it's difficult enough to get talent to sign for less than market value, so adding another max contract eqautes to even more of a difficulty.

    You exaggeratingly mentioned CP3 fills a need. Filling the position may be a need, using max contract dollars is WHAT'S NOT NEEDED.

    What's actually needed, is a team with size and depth added to Stat & Melo. CP3 isn't equated to size and depth. CP3's expected contract (max) negates what's needed, size and depth.

    By considering passing on size and depth by hoping for CP3 a year from now is akin to taking one step forward and two steps back.

    There doesn't have to be a "who" exactly, because it's about "what". What will be accomplished by over spending for another star vs scrapping that plan and trying to acquire size and depth?

    A three star team devoid of size and depth with no hopes of acquiring any semblance of quality size and depth.

    If you argue, we can still acquire size and depth and get CP3, then really there is no argument, and I'll look forward to our additions, but we all know it's a trade-off at this point.

    Plan for CP3 and we'll sacrifice possible trades and acqusitions of less than spectacular players, only to continually field a "incomplete" team. The same issue you and MOA supporters argued for years- which is ironic.

    Plan to add as much quality depth and size if the situation presents itself, and it will become apparent just as it is to me, we don't "NEED" CP3...

    Not at this juncture

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