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Thread: CENTER -vs- CP3 redux:

  1. #91
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    Default CP3, D12 and Cap Room

    We do not know what the new CBA will bring in terms of Cap or Max salary levels. No matter what, there has got to be some adjustments or "phasing-in" of current contracts. It is highly unlikely, however, that we are going to have the space for a third even close to Max contract. D12 and CP3 are both dreams, pleasant though they be.

    For 2012 when Billups contract is off the books, Amare and Melo will use up about $39.5M. We will still have Balkman on the books for $1.675M, and a team option for Douglas at $2.067M. Shumpert is likely to be there at about $2M. That is $45M for five players. In 2012 each of Amare and Melo will be making about $21.5M. There will not be much left.

  2. #92
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
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    would player salaries not be adjusted % wise in a new CBA? I would think that if we had a cap of 45 million that we would have to have such an option...

  3. #93
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    that'll be awfully hard to ask kobe to take a paycut from 30 to 24 mil or lebron and wade to go from 16 to 12 mil. the stars generate the revenue and they're actually worth what they're getting paid cuz they pack the arenas!
    if anything, what i could see happening is that in some way, they can have a certain % of the current contracts not count against the cap but going forward all new contracts will count against the cap.



    Originally Posted by p0nder
    would player salaries not be adjusted % wise in a new CBA? I would think that if we had a cap of 45 million that we would have to have such an option...

  4. #94
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    Default Pay Cuts

    Although the NHL players took cuts when a new contract was forced on them, I do not expect that to happen in the NBA. I do see something like treating current max contracts for cap purposs as if they were max contracts under the new CBA. The owners, however, would still have to pay the players the full contract amounts.

    Something has to be done. In 2013/14 the combined salaries of LeBron, Wade and Bosh will be $56M and in the following year over $61M.

    if there any kind of "flex" or hard cap, my guess is that there will not be 8.5% to 10.5% increases each year.

    The owners and players are nowhere near any any new agreement.


  5. #95
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    Default Apologies for tardy behaviour. I've been rather busy.

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I understand Crazy, I get it. My deliberation is based on the assumption that the league incorporates a better revenue sharing model and the salary cap situation stays relatively the same, since the imbalance in competition didn't have so much to do with the cap itself as much as it did with small market teams not being able to afford the same luxuries as big market teams. Fix that issue, and everything else should fall into place. The only problem is convincing owners like Dolan and the Buss family to share their revenue with the Maloof's and whoever owns the Bucks.

    Contracts aren't getting rolled back, and I doubt if there will be a hard cap. But if there is one, it'll be at a higher number than last year's cap. Higher than the old cap, but lower than the luxury tax territory.
    Is there any word on this? I've found paying attention to the off-season/lockout very underwhelming.

    Paul doesn't have to throw a tantrum to get what he wants. It's a business and this is precisely why players have walk years. CC has the same thing with the Yanks. He can terminate his contract and ask for more money, or go elsewhere. If Paul refuses to sign the extension for his current team, but is willing to sign it for someone else...well chances are he'll end up there. It's not up to New Orleans, unless they watch him walk and get nothing. Whether or not the NBA would make that deal happen? I dunno, but remember, they did place Donnie Walsh here....they have a vested interest in seeing large market teams do well (the main reason why small market teams are furious.)
    Little doubt that there'll be other teams, of interest to Paul, who have a far more feasible trade scenario to acquire him, though.

    But all that aside, it doesn't change our current situation. There's no money to spend. It's literally that simple. And when the new CBA is ratified sometime this fall/winter, we'll know if there's an MLE or not and adjust accordingly.
    It is that simple. Why I've stated often that it seems VERY unlikely that we'll be able to manovre to get a 3rd high salary player.

    A question in regard to this: what leeway, given that they were inclined, do STAT & Melo have in adjusting their contracts (lessening their incremental and overall worth) to accomodate space for a 3rd player, Paul or otherwise?

    But there seems to be a sentiment on the boards that we're either passing up on a big this year, can trade for one, or get one next year...and those are all reaches. New CBA or not.
    Not from here. Mine was just a statement of preference born from results.

    And if there's a MLE in the new CBA...we can get Paul if he wants to be here, and get our size and depth too. No we wouldn't be getting Tyson Chandler and Jason Terry, but that wouldn't be necessary because we wouldn't be building around one star, we'd be building around 3.
    Let's say CP3 comes as a FA next year and there's an MLE. We let Rautins walk, resign Derrick Brown (if he plays well this season....if he plays this season), sign CP3, sign a center to the MLE (hopefully Przybilla doesn't get a long term deal this year), sign Jerome Jordan if we haven't already, get some vet min contracts. Maybe trade Douglas if we haven't already. We're good.
    No doubt these points/scenarios are good ones, but we'd still have a weak front court. Something I consider a no-no in the modern league. With CP3 as your guard or no, that's a recipe for rape as the receiver. My new take on "the 3 Rs".

    If there is no MLE next year, we're probably gonna try to bring Billups back or go after Beno or someone serviceable, go after a center (still gonna be a Przybilla type guy) and that's already gonna be like $9-11M of the money we have to spend. Resign Derrick, bring Jerome over, there's another $2.5-3M...and now we have like a million bucks to get a vet min guy. This scenario should only take place if there's no MLE. If we forgo Dwight or CP3 for this ^^^^ they should disband the team.
    I don't necessarily like the idea of this being the case, but I would certainly be interested in seeing its outcome. I think that by that stage, we offer Billups $1-2M, and pursue some youth at the 1 & 2 spots. Our window of opportunity is as wide open as it'll remain for the next 2-3 years. From there, we have to afford acceptable losses.

    Basically, when it comes to this overall "who's right and who's wrong" back and forth over CP3 - a 3rd star/MAX, I've just about heard all I want to hear, and said all I've wanted to say. I just want this bunch of dummy spitting c***s to bring back basketball.

    Thanks for your time and good posting. I look forward to hearing more from you.

  6. #96
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    Default Lol

    Originally Posted by knickscity
    Very long post to state the obvious.

    Yeah we need a center.

    We also need a real point guard to get the offense flowing like it should.

    We aren't getting a center in a draft.

    Most of the top bigs on your list will most likely stay with their current teams, or are totally unavailable, plus that list make the center look awful.

    Vets min at center, then give me CP3.
    Yea thats what you get when everyone thinks they a GM or B.B. Analyst but, hey it kills time and some of them are actually good reads.

  7. #97
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    Let's say CP3 comes as a FA next year and there's an MLE. We let Rautins walk, resign Derrick Brown (if he plays well this season....if he plays this season), sign CP3, sign a center to the MLE (hopefully Przybilla doesn't get a long term deal this year), sign Jerome Jordan if we haven't already, get some vet min contracts. Maybe trade Douglas if we haven't already. We're good.
    Guys, teams don't get a MLE in years they have cap space. It's either/or, you don't get both. Only capped out teams get the MLE to use to sign FA's.

  8. #98
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    Default D12 or CP3?

    If the*New York Knicks
    *are about to lose their breath chasing another superstar the way they chased*Carmelo Anthony
    *and*LeBron James
    before him, they should at least identify the most sensible blue-chipper to recruit.


    Dwight Howard
    *is bigger and better than*Chris Paul
    , and he might be more attainable between now and the trade deadline, too. The Knicks don't have the necessary parts to deal for Paul because they surrendered everything but the Chrysler Building for Anthony, and rightfully so.
    Chauncey Billups
    ' expiring contract and a couple of misfit toys won't cut it for the*New Orleans Hornets
    , and the Knicks aren't interested in moving Anthony or*Amare Stoudemire
    *for Paul. You know how it goes -- never trade big for small.

    Hot Button: CP3 or Superman?


    Chris Paul or Dwight Howard? Knicks fans: If you could have just one, who would you take?*Vote Now!
    *


    Only you do trade big for bigger, and that's where the 6-foot-11 Howard comes in. The*Orlando Magic
    *need to deal him. They can't let him walk as a free agent like they let*Shaquille O'Neal
    *walk as a free agent in a different life.


    So the Knicks should offer Stoudemire or Anthony for Howard and see what Orlando says. If the Knicks can't deliver a credible bid for Paul, they certainly can deliver one for Howard.


    Not that such an offer would be made lightly. Stoudemire has embraced New York, played hurt, shown maturity in the locker room, and carried himself about town with dignity and grace. He accepted a challenge LeBron ran away from, and if this generation of Knicks ever wins the franchise's first title since 1973, New Yorkers will always remember Stoudemire as the first to sign up and the first to lead.
    Anthony? Jim Dolan didn't go through all that last winter to kiss Melomania goodbye less than a year later. But business is business, just like it was when Anthony told Dolan at the All-Star Game that he couldn't gamble on post-lockout free agency, and that he would accept a trade and his $65 million extension with the New Jersey/Brooklyn Nets if the Knicks didn't cough up the extra players required to close the deal with Denver.


    Dolan did what he had to do because getting Anthony was good for business then, just like getting Howard would be better for business now.


    All along, the notion of a future Knicks Big Three to compete with Miami's Big Three was built around the belief that Stoudemire and Anthony would represent two-thirds of the group. But who said the Knicks' Big Two had to be*"this"*Big Two?

    [+] EnlargeDwight Howard
    Fernando Medina/Getty ImagesDwight Howard is a three-time defensive player of the year. Yeah, the Knicks might want some of that.
    Either Howard-Stoudemire or Howard-Anthony would be stronger than Stoudemire-Anthony. If you were courtside in Orlando this past spring, when Howard dropped 30 points, 16 rebounds and five blocks on the Knicks, you would understand why.


    Stoudemire is an extra-large man, and yet he looked likeSpud Webb
    *when he stood next to Howard and his video-game frame.


    That night in Orlando, Howard was asked about the prospect of someday ending up a Knick.


    "New York's a beautiful city to visit," he said, "but it's too cold for me."


    He was wearing a smile when he said it, but honestly, it didn't sound like he was joking.


    Nobody said this would be easy. The Lakers can offer sunny skies andKobe Bryant
    *to Howard, and*Andrew Bynum
    *and a talented friend or two to the Magic. The Nets can offer*Deron Williams
    *and a new arena to Howard, and*Brook Lopez
    *and two first-rounders to the Magic.


    But if the Knicks were willing to ship either Stoudemire or Anthony, especially Anthony, they would put themselves in the game for Howard. And right now, they can't get in the game for Paul.
    On the heels of a report from ESPN's Chris Broussard that Paul wants to become a Knick, a report from Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski and Marc Spears stated that Paul's agent informed New Orleans management his client wants to be FedExed to Madison Square Garden. As the three journalists have a history of getting it right, whatever denials and non-denials are floating out there shouldn't be taken too seriously.


    Paul wants to be a Knick, wants to make his famous toast at Anthony's wedding come to be. While one source close to the situation maintained that Paul is "very intrigued by the Clippers" and that the Clippers are serious competitors for the point guard's services, the source also said, "The Knicks are the ones in the driver's seat. Chris is the Knicks' to lose."

    Knicks Blog
    KnicksLooking for more information on your Knicks? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered.**Blog*



    But unless Paul is willing to sacrifice tens of millions by signing as a free agent, lose him the Knicks probably will.


    So Howard should be New York's primary target. Back in his senior year of high school, I watched him live four times while researching a book, watched him break a full-court press all by himself by dribbling through and around five opponents half his size.
    The young Howard told me he thought he could develop into a better player than LeBron James, and I remember thinking that anyone who took*Emeka Okafor
    *in the draft ahead of this kid would be positively nuts.


    All these years later, the first pick of that 2004 draft remains at the head of his class. Paul and Williams are desirable free-agent-to-be commodities, but they don't measure up to Howard in any literal or figurative way.
    So the Knicks should devote their time and energy to a more realistic and profitable trade scenario. Make a play for Howard with one of their Big Two, and then check back on Paul and Williams in July.


    Maybe Paul will make it to free agency and actually take a significant pay cut to sign with the Knicks. Maybe Williams will feel abandoned in Brooklyn, and beat Paul on the fast break to the Garden and his own scaled-down contract.


    Or maybe the Knicks will swing and miss on both point guards, and take their cap space elsewhere.


    In the end, it doesn't matter. Dwight Howard is better than anyone on the Knicks' roster and better than anyone else the Knicks want on their roster. He's the blue-chip recruit they need to chase.
    Agreed.

    1. D12
    2a. CP3
    2b. D Will

    When we look 2+ years down the line, Stat is 30, we will still be able to compete with D12 who is young.

    Doesn't hurt to take Orlando's temp.

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