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Thread: Lack of Big Men in the NBA! great article

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    Default Lack of Big Men in the NBA! great article

    Check out this article about the lack of bigs in the league:

    With Shaquille O'Neal & Yao Ming retired, center position is weaker with no stars poised to step up

    In the span of only six weeks, the NBA lost two towering figures when Shaquille O'Neal and Yao Ming announced their retirements.

    We know what you're thinking: They had so little impact in recent seasons, how could you tell that they weren't already well into their post-NBA careers?

    But they're huge losses, and not just in the literal sense, with their jaw-dropping physical stature. As they each hobbled along toward the end of their respective careers, the center position was in critical condition.

    Now, it's in even worse shape.

    Shaq hardly got on the court for the Celtics when they lost to the Heat in the conference semifinals. After an injury-marred regular-season in which he played only 37 games, he appeared for all of 12 minutes in two playoff games, making the Celtics' midseason trade of Kendrick Perkins look rather stupid. Down in Houston, Yao played only five games in the last two seasons because of foot and ankle injuries.

    Shaq went out to much greater fanfare. Regardless that he won only one regular-season MVP award - a crime, if there ever was one - he left as one of the greatest big men in the history of the sport. At least he got to put in a full career lasting 19 seasons. But you really have to feel for Yao, who was forced to bow out when he was still only 30.

    "O'Neal didn't get cheated out of anything with the career he had, but there's much more a feeling of loss with Yao because he wasn't able to fulfill all he was capable of," said Jeff Van Gundy, who coached Yao for four seasons, this past week. "I feel bad for him in that way, but not sad for him. Because it's not like, without the NBA, he'll be lost. He has a lot to offer, no matter what he does."

    Shaq stopped the Finals in its tracks when he Tweeted his retirement, even when his best days were long behind him, which speaks volumes about his lasting impact on the sport. But Yao's announcement didn't move the needle on the interest meter nearly as much, except back home in China, where he is regarded as a basketball pioneer. He was the first Chinese player to make it big in the NBA, as was noted by Kobe Bryant, who was touring in Shanghai the day that Yao broke the news in a statement carried by Chinese TV.

    "In terms of opening up doors for Chinese basketball players to come to the NBA, or for the youth here in China to believe that it's possible to achieve the dream of being an NBA player, all that started from Yao," Bryant said.

    After the Rockets, the biggest loser here is the NBA. With his array of low-post moves, Yao was named to the All-NBA team five times from 2004-09. Except for Dwight Howard, who doesn't compare to Yao as a post player, there isn't another dominant center.
    If I were a GM I would see this as an opportunity. The search should be on to find lightning in a bottle.

    I looked at our roster and I realized we have 6 GUARDS! Plus three more SF's!

    Billups, TD, Shump, Fields, Walker, Rautins -plus- Melo, Balkman and Brown

    I believe Walker has to be resigned, and they are thinking about Shawn Williams...

    So that's 10 f*cking shooters/guards/wing players! TEN!

    Add Stat, Jorts, and Turiaf as our bigs possibly with Jordan and (gulp) Jeffries if he's resigned. Garbage!

    And we are also considering Anthony Carter... for what I have no clue.

    Is this MOA conditioning?
    Is this our front office doing what they must, adhering to the "new" NBA direction?

    Whatever this is I would suggest taking a little away from the wing positions and adding quality depth and size.

    But is it available? Will Turiaf heal well, Jordan materialize, Stat play better D? Can Jort hold his own?

    Or will Shawn Williams be our back up 4 while we ponder a cheap contract for Jared Jeffries?

    On a side note: Its really not hard to acquire Bigs... on NBA2K that is! I easily get a R. Lopez, J. McGee (a bit more expensive), and even signed Dalembert for 3 years at $2mil and change per.

    If only life where so easy. There were times when I've acquired Tyson Chandler (kinda sucks), Roy Hibbert (not bad at all) and even seasons where I got D12 and another with CP3.

    I know this is fantasy but IF this game (almost) resembles life, I can say a PG really didn't need to be great. CP3, Billups, Nash, even Shump put up basically the same numbers given this system (mostly assists). They all hit clutch three pointers.

    Obviously some things are not accurate (extra picks that the Knicks didn't have, willingness to trade picks and move up based on record) but all in all the defense definitly improved with a legit (semi-legit) big.

    Scoure the earth. If you can't get a defensive coach, get one to teach and develop bigs. They are becoming more and more of a valuable commodity- he who owns them wins.

    My list if possible:

    D12
    Bynum (if healthy)
    Mcgee
    Hibbert
    Chandler
    Gasol

    If not then the tier B guys- Lopez, Dalembert, Przy, etc...

    Not really into the 6'10 guys, to me that's a waste unless he's dynamic- I like size (6'11 or >) no homo.

    *note, I'm aware NBA2K is a game.
    Last edited by Red; Jul 25, 2011 at 07:53. Reason: nydailynews.com

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    Source? Link? Is that the whole article?

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    Amar'e Stoudemire was voted second-team All-NBA at center after his first season in New York. But he's really a power forward. The Hawks' Al Horford was the third-team center, but he wants to move to power forward.

    "With Yao battling those injuries late in his career, there is this out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing with people, forgetting just how good he was when he was healthy," Van Gundy said. "He was a low-post technician, with a jump hook, turnaround jumpers and spin moves. He had a package.

    "So if you dropped him in today's NBA, with the lack of big men who can play, he would certainly be the best offensive center in basketball - it's not even close."

    In some respects, the power forward position has supplanted the center spot for offense, with Dirk Nowitzki's MVP performance in the Finals continuing that trend.

    Twenty years ago, when Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing and David Robinson ruled the paint, only two power forwards, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, ranked among the game's top scorers. Last* season, 10 power forwards ranked in the top 25, led by Stoudemire's 25.3 ppg. As far as post moves go, there isn't anyone at power forward or center who resembles Kevin McHale.

    "What's sad for NBA fans is that the game is at its best when there are a different number of ways to score," Van Gundy said. "Now (Tim) Duncan is not featured, offensively, due to health and age, and with O'Neal and Yao retiring, you just don't have that much great low-post play. I mean, who is the best low-post player in the game today?"

    Don't go looking for answers in the middle, where the center spot is often manned by a defensive specialist. Tyson Chandler had his moments at that end of the floor in the Finals for the Mavs, but he's severely limited as an offensive player. Now, Howard has the top tier to himself, mainly because of his rebounding and defense. But Orlando has gone backward in three straight postseasons, proving that winning often depends on who you're playing with, as much as who you're playing against.

    By now, Greg Oden and Andrew Bynum should have filled the sizable void left by Shaq and Yao. But their NBA careers have been decimated, in Oden's case, and retarded, in Bynum's case, by serious knee injuries.

    In three seasons, Oden has played what has amounted to only one full season for the Blazers, who will be kicking themselves for a long time for taking the big man over Kevin Durant at the top of the 2008 draft.

    "Now Durant is a superstar and Oden has had all those injuries and he doesn't even play," said Charlotte coach Paul Silas, at the draft lottery in May. "Maybe that's a reason that people are shying away from taking a big guy. I think what they've seen out in Portland with Oden makes everyone a little more reluctant to draft a big guy at the top of the draft. But then I ask: Where are all the big guys these days? Where have they gone? You don't see them coming into the league like you used to. It's amazing, because years ago, we had a lot of great big men in this league."

    A few years ago, Bynum looked like he might develop into one. But during his six seasons with the Lakers, he's played only one full season and missed 160 games.

    The last we saw of him, he was removing his jersey as he walked off the court in Dallas after getting ejected for decking the Mavs' J.J. Barea with a cheap shot to the head. The move was quickly reduced to footnote status, as the game marked Phil Jackson's exit from coaching and a rare sweep for Bryant to stew over during the lockout.

    His flagrant foul notwithstanding, Bynum's play has not made anyone forget the tradition of iconic L.A. centers, starting with Wilt Chamberlain, extending to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and last seen with O'Neal.

    But in today's NBA, why would anyone expect differently?

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    Pretty good, and completely true.

    I want to say that all the 7 footers and centers became PF's, and the leftovers at C are second rate players or defensive specialists. That's what I used to think. But that doesn't explain the lack of dominant low-post players.

    It's like a generation of kids didn't learn low-post fundamentals. They were never taught the power game as they developed, so now we have 7ft bigs who don't bang unless they're playing defense.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Check out this article about the lack of bigs in the league:



    If I were a GM I would see this as an opportunity. The search should be on to find lightning in a bottle.

    I looked at our roster and I realized we have 6 GUARDS! Plus three more SF's!

    Billups, TD, Shump, Fields, Walker, Rautins -plus- Melo, Balkman and Brown

    I believe Walker has to be resigned, and they are thinking about Shawn Williams...

    So that's 10 f*cking shooters/guards/wing players! TEN!

    Add Stat, Jorts, and Turiaf as our bigs possibly with Jordan and (gulp) Jeffries if he's resigned. Garbage!

    And we are also considering Anthony Carter... for what I have no clue.

    Is this MOA conditioning?
    Is this our front office doing what they must, adhering to the "new" NBA direction?

    Whatever this is I would suggest taking a little away from the wing positions and adding quality depth and size.

    But is it available? Will Turiaf heal well, Jordan materialize, Stat play better D? Can Jort hold his own?

    Or will Shawn Williams be our back up 4 while we ponder a cheap contract for Jared Jeffries?

    On a side note: Its really not hard to acquire Bigs... on NBA2K that is! I easily get a R. Lopez, J. McGee (a bit more expensive), and even signed Dalembert for 3 years at $2mil and change per.

    If only life where so easy. There were times when I've acquired Tyson Chandler (kinda sucks), Roy Hibbert (not bad at all) and even seasons where I got D12 and another with CP3.

    I know this is fantasy but IF this game (almost) resembles life, I can say a PG really didn't need to be great. CP3, Billups, Nash, even Shump put up basically the same numbers given this system (mostly assists). They all hit clutch three pointers.

    Obviously some things are not accurate (extra picks that the Knicks didn't have, willingness to trade picks and move up based on record) but all in all the defense definitly improved with a legit (semi-legit) big.

    Scoure the earth. If you can't get a defensive coach, get one to teach and develop bigs. They are becoming more and more of a valuable commodity- he who owns them wins.

    My list if possible:

    D12
    Bynum (if healthy)
    Mcgee
    Hibbert
    Chandler
    Gasol

    If not then the tier B guys- Lopez, Dalembert, Przy, etc...

    Not really into the 6'10 guys, to me that's a waste unless he's dynamic- I like size (6'11 or >) no homo.

    *note, I'm aware NBA2K is a game.

    a good article.. but in a nutshell... we dont have any pf's other than amare..

    shawn williams is a three and jared is a three. we lost so many games using these guyd outside of their natural position....

    i think we need to get some bigs... we mad a good find with mozgov.. now we have to do better... id luv to get mcgee... but i will settle for lopez/prizz.. dalmebert will go to mia before he comes to the knicks

    enough of this small ball $hit.......

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    Of course if we can get D12 we snatch him up but doesn't this article highlight precisely why we should get CP3 over 2nd rate centers?

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    Angry The Original Dream-Team vs the new Euro-League NBA

    Its ashame how so many NBA teams has took on the be-cheap Euro-League philosophy in small-ball. All the Bigman camps the NBA teams used to produce in the 1970's and 1990's has decreased to practically nothing in the millenium. Practically all the basketball camps for kids in New York State has diminished in the summertime for my grandsons.

    Very few NBA teams bother to hire a bigman coach for their staff as if the team is owned by the ESPN highlights for the next Dr. J or Dominique/Jordan dunks are special, and not suppose to be defended by the next Chamberland/ Jabbar/ Reed/ Olyjuwon/ D.Robinson/ Rodman/ Mournings/ or Mutombo's in the league. How many of these top ex-NBA super-star bigmen have a Bigman-Camp manage/produce by a NBA team? none!

    What team should Patrick Ewing have a life time coaching career?
    Houston Rockets? Orlando Magic? or the Knicks?
    I recall the Knicks offering Rookie-Patrick Ewing a 30 year contract
    for $30 million dollars. The Bird-Rights diminish the contract but where is the loyalty from owner to ex-Knicks super-star player who been asking for forgiveness to come back to the organization???

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Of course if we can get D12 we snatch him up but doesn't this article highlight precisely why we should get CP3 over 2nd rate centers?
    You're right. Given the lack of quality talent and demand for a big we are left with:

    1. Hoping Jordan can materialize
    2. Signing/trading for what certainly will be a 2nd tier player
    3. Just going the route of the new NBA... featuring Amare as our big while trying to acquire more available PG stars

    Really Billups is our key. Stars cost and his contract is expiring, very enticing.

    How would he feel being dealt mid-season? Probably not bad at all, he still gets paid.

    Or we let him expire and go the free agent route.

    I just have a feeling he wants to prove his worth and won't go quietly without making us think twice.

    I need that big goddamit! (No homo)

    Mozgov while ok still won't cut it... we need more.

    Lopez sucks but he's a start, think we can trade for him ($2mil+ contract)?

    Or hope for #1 and Turiaf

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    Originally Posted by Red
    You're right. Given the lack of quality talent and demand for a big we are left with:

    1. Hoping Jordan can materialize
    2. Signing/trading for what certainly will be a 2nd tier player
    3. Just going the route of the new NBA... featuring Amare as our big while trying to acquire more available PG stars

    Really Billups is our key. Stars cost and his contract is expiring, very enticing.

    How would he feel being dealt mid-season? Probably not bad at all, he still gets paid.

    Or we let him expire and go the free agent route.

    I just have a feeling he wants to prove his worth and won't go quietly without making us think twice.

    I need that big goddamit! (No homo)

    Mozgov while ok still won't cut it... we need more.

    Lopez sucks but he's a start, think we can trade for him ($2mil+ contract)?

    Or hope for #1 and Turiaf
    Chuancy Billups being a Knicks is probably the only reason why any veteran Bigman center would want to become a Knicks now.....why did Brad Miller say, "Hell No!" to becoming a Knicks when interviewed as a FA center? was it Walsh? Dantoni? or the Knicks organization? pick one.

    Having a bigman-coach like Patrick Ewing on the Knicks bench.....could assistant coach Ewing help the Jellin-Chemistry of C-Jordan & PF-Amare? or C-Harrellson & PF-Amare? or C-Jordan, PF-Turiaf, and SF-Melo?

    With the help of Star PG-Chuancy Billups on the court and coach Ewing on the bench by midseason rookies Jordan & Harrellson would be performing like veteran centers with very few rookie mistakes.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Chuancy Billups being a Knicks is probably the only reason why any veteran Bigman center would want to become a Knicks now.....why did Brad Miller say, "Hell No!" to becoming a Knicks when interviewed as a FA center? was it Walsh? Dantoni? or the Knicks organization? pick one.

    Having a bigman-coach like Patrick Ewing on the Knicks bench.....could assistant coach Ewing help the Jellin-Chemistry of C-Jordan & PF-Amare? or C-Harrellson & PF-Amare? or C-Jordan, PF-Turiaf, and SF-Melo?

    With the help of Star PG-Chuancy Billups on the court and coach Ewing on the bench by midseason rookies Jordan & Harrellson would be performing like veteran centers with very few rookie mistakes.

    we need to address our backup PF position as well. when amare leaves the game, we have no interior presence on the offensive end. we need a backup pf that can force the defense to rotate. when dont have that.. and that was our most glaring missing piece last season.

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    we need to address our backup PF position as well. when amare leaves the game, we have no interior presence on the offensive end. we need a backup pf that can force the defense to rotate. when dont have that.. and that was our most glaring missing piece last season.

    That was something I notice too....I also notice how well the Knicks
    bench-players of Bigbody-Mozgov & Turiaf on the court together were
    getting some (Dunks) points off of the pick n roll with TD, while Wilson
    Chandler were able to use his inside & outside offense with the two
    bigmen and Fields all-around hustle.

    Lastseason Amare needed a peremeter scoring "SG" like Ray Allen/ Ellis/ RIP/
    J.Richardson/ Affalo/ or Harden to make Amare inside scoring worth $100M
    contract. Starks completed Ewing, Ginobli completes Duncan, RIP completed
    Rasheed, Ray completes KG, Kobe completes Gasol, Terry completes Dirk.
    I'm sure this offseason Landry Fields will be working-hard on his peremeter
    shooting from 15 to 25 feet out.

    Turiaf is a good backup for Amare as long as Melo is still on the court.
    The missing BIG-BODY put-back CENTER is missing to screen/pick/and
    boxout.....a job Dalembert/ Gasol/ and Tyson Chandler are great at.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    That was something I notice too....I also notice how well the Knicks
    bench-players of Bigbody-Mozgov & Turiaf on the court together were
    getting some (Dunks) points off of the pick n roll with TD, while Wilson
    Chandler were able to use his inside & outside offense with the two
    bigmen and Fields all-around hustle.

    Lastseason Amare needed a peremeter scoring "SG" like Ray Allen/ Ellis/ RIP/
    J.Richardson/ Affalo/ or Harden to make Amare inside scoring worth $100M
    contract. Starks completed Ewing, Ginobli completes Duncan, RIP completed
    Rasheed, Ray completes KG, Kobe completes Gasol, Terry completes Dirk.
    I'm sure this offseason Landry Fields will be working-hard on his peremeter
    shooting from 15 to 25 feet out.

    Turiaf is a good backup for Amare as long as Melo is still on the court.
    The missing BIG-BODY put-back CENTER is missing to screen/pick/and
    boxout.....a job Dalembert/ Gasol/ and Tyson Chandler are great at.

    agreed.. however i do believe turiaf is more suited for the 5 spot and he lacks any offensive game.. so we would still be without an inside threat when amare sits..

    the best backup available but will be too expensive for us is Big Baby...if we had him comin off the bench for Stat,,,, that would be great.. but i know it wont happen..but we need that type of player

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    It's a sorry state of affairs if you're a Knick fan.
    Now if only we'd signed Melo as a free........ OH **** IT!

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    agreed.. however i do believe turiaf is more suited for the 5 spot and he lacks any offensive game.. so we would still be without an inside threat when amare sits..

    the best backup available but will be too expensive for us is Big Baby...if we had him comin off the bench for Stat,,,, that would be great.. but i know it wont happen..but we need that type of player
    Relative to Jared Jeffries, Turiaf can actually be counted on to score (at times)

    I think he was relegated to garbage duties and wasn't a focus for absolutely any plays because of MOA flawed approach

    This is underscored by preferring Williams to play the stretch four for Stat

    But Turiaf's body can't handle a full season, our hopes are on Jort

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Its ashame how so many NBA teams has took on the be-cheap Euro-League philosophy in small-ball. All the Bigman camps the NBA teams used to produce in the 1970's and 1990's has decreased to practically nothing in the millenium. Practically all the basketball camps for kids in New York State has diminished in the summertime for my grandsons.

    Very few NBA teams bother to hire a bigman coach for their staff as if the team is owned by the ESPN highlights for the next Dr. J or Dominique/Jordan dunks are special, and not suppose to be defended by the next Chamberland/ Jabbar/ Reed/ Olyjuwon/ D.Robinson/ Rodman/ Mournings/ or Mutombo's in the league. How many of these top ex-NBA super-star bigmen have a Bigman-Camp manage/produce by a NBA team? none!

    What team should Patrick Ewing have a life time coaching career?
    Houston Rockets? Orlando Magic? or the Knicks?
    I recall the Knicks offering Rookie-Patrick Ewing a 30 year contract
    for $30 million dollars. The Bird-Rights diminish the contract but where is the loyalty from owner to ex-Knicks super-star player who been asking for forgiveness to come back to the organization???
    I gotta fully agree on this one! rock on Kiyaman!

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