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Thread: Can Mike Woodson really make an impact

  1. #1
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Default Can Mike Woodson really make an impact

    Look I am excited that we are addressing defense....but how big a difference will it make when our coaches' offense is predicated on quick shots and running after made shots by other teams?

    Plus...its not like his Hawk teams were exactly a lockdown gritty defensive team, his final season with the Hawks they gave up 97 per game on 46% shooting, which is not as bad as what we give up but is still pretty bad!

    We suck on defense due to our poor individual efforts on D, Can he get Stat to crash the boards like a PF? Can he get Melo to go from showing flashes to actually committing to D?

    I like that our starting PG and he won a championship together and that he has a player like Shumpert to work with as well, TD and Feilds are pretty decent defenders as well.....but the at the rate we put up shots and the lack of defensive awarness our team shows overall, then I'm not sure it will make a difference unless we can bring in some better defensive players and Mike D changes his approach to his offense.

    Just my thoughts, what are yall thinking?

  2. #2
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    I think at the very least he's got more of a presence than Mike D on defense...just my hunch, though.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    I think of Tom Tibedou and the C's he was great as the brain behind the defense....yet he had players committed to that end of the floor,
    Pierce was never a bad defender and Rondo KG and Perkins all were some of
    The best at their positions with Ray Allen being the only one who you could call average

    Plus Doc Rivers himself is a coach (and was pretty good as a
    Player) who steresses D, so having a D coordinator was just someone who focused soley on that aspect while Doc handled things like schemes,rotations and all the overall duties of coaching

    Dantoni has shown no interest at D, so it's like Isiah bringing a smart GM but still had the final say in trades and acquisitions!!

    But...The Knicks showing an interest in D could help w Free Agents next Summer at least they will see us trying to improve in this area!

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    Superstar MSGhobo247's Avatar
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    I think/hope that MD looked at last season after the trade and realized that his style of play has to be tweaked. The roster we have is not that which can run the offense the way he dreams. We have a half court team that is very athletic and can run with the best of them but that shouldn't be our identity anymore. As we see in the playoffs we need to slow it down and if this is going to happen we still need some big men. If we slow down this offense then MD has no choice but to listen to Mike W cause if he doesn't everyone will notice very fast and MD will officially be out of a job.

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    You can't expect D'Antoni to successfully overhaul his entire system mid-season. Hopefully he can coach better out of the half-court, but I think having Woodson will help out with that.

    So we got Mike D, Mike W, all we gotta do is get Michael Redd on this team and we got Mike D, Mike W, and Mike R lol

  6. #6
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    I think he can have an impacton the defensive side and on the what MDA wants to do.

    If we play better D, then we'll have more opportunities to run because we'll cause more turnovers, missed shots etc, which you can run off of.

    For this reason I actually think we'll run more this yr than last.

    I don't by into this perspective everybody's spouting about how MDA needs to change things, ie slow it down. By bringing Woodson, in MDA will have an easier time getting what he wants on his side of the court. Don't believe me... you'll see. Trust.

  7. #7
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Running is not the problem, early perimeter shots can be an issue. If we play a team like the Cs, who don't crash the offensive board, but instead gets back on D and rely on high percentage shots in the half court, they'll be able to contend with us running, and also crash the defensive boards to make us go one-and-done. Getting a stop on defense means nothing if you push the ball up the court, put up an early jumper, and can't get the rebound because your rebounders haven't established any sort of position because they're either not in a spot to do so, or they are being boxed out, etc.

    I don't see a problem with running as long as we're running to the rim, and not settling for the first open three, with very little chance of grabbing a board. I also want to see the team develop an offense that can compete with a team that slows the game down, and creates fewer possessions. The more tools in the tool-belt, the better chance of success.

    Those things have nothing to do with defense. They're team philosophy, and I for one, am tired of being a fan of a team that "lives by the 3, and dies by the 3." I want my team to be the one that can give it to you from the inside, outside, defensively, or a combo of all 3. There seriously shouldn't be any argument against that. But the past few years tells us that MDA wants his system to be the victor with very little outside influence. I can't tell anyone what the future will hold, but the Knicks need a culture change to get to the top, not just an assistant coach to take over defense and teach the fundamentals of helping the helper.

    I guess we'll see what happens when the lockout ends.

  8. #8
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    They are stressing Woodson as "an assistant coach", not necessarily a defensive coordinator.

    The question is what influence will he have with our overall approach? And will MOA take heed?

    With 3 scorers on the floor, MOA's approach is to put pressure on the opposing defense while simultaneously adding pressure on their offense to keep up. Thus reducing our pressure on our defense.

    In theory, its not a bad approach, and is predicated on consistent scoring. Its the opposite of what is normally done.

    Teams with defense feel their defense can relieve the pressure on constantly having to score.

    If MOA can incorporate our big three towards constant offensive pressure, just a bit of defense will be a deadly combination. Doing so means MOA does what he does (scoring) while Woodson finds ways to get the ball back.

    We still need a quality big though. No game plan can negate this.

  9. #9
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Running is not the problem, early perimeter shots can be an issue. If we play a team like the Cs, who don't crash the offensive board, but instead gets back on D and rely on high percentage shots in the half court, they'll be able to contend with us running, and also crash the defensive boards to make us go one-and-done. Getting a stop on defense means nothing if you push the ball up the court, put up an early jumper, and can't get the rebound because your rebounders haven't established any sort of position because they're either not in a spot to do so, or they are being boxed out, etc.

    I don't see a problem with running as long as we're running to the rim, and not settling for the first open three, with very little chance of grabbing a board. I also want to see the team develop an offense that can compete with a team that slows the game down, and creates fewer possessions. The more tools in the tool-belt, the better chance of success.

    Those things have nothing to do with defense. They're team philosophy, and I for one, am tired of being a fan of a team that "lives by the 3, and dies by the 3." I want my team to be the one that can give it to you from the inside, outside, defensively, or a combo of all 3. There seriously shouldn't be any argument against that. But the past few years tells us that MDA wants his system to be the victor with very little outside influence. I can't tell anyone what the future will hold, but the Knicks need a culture change to get to the top, not just an assistant coach to take over defense and teach the fundamentals of helping the helper.

    I guess we'll see what happens when the lockout ends.
    +1

    very well put, we gotta take smarter shots and hit the boards harder

  10. #10
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    I think we are over analyzing this hiring big time

    No one but the media labeled him a defensive assistant.

    the fact is we have two coaches who have coached winning teams to the playoffs in the east and western conference, joining forces both with a point to prove; and both only losing to the lakers, mavericks, spurs, Lebron james lead cavs and boston celtics over the past few years.

    point is

    Its a great hiring for assistant coach, regardless of defensive mindsets.

    the fact remains, Mike dantoni would have to be an idiot, beyond poor coach but idiot to think he doesnt have to improve his teams defense this year; to not only stay in NY for big money; but be signed any where else out side of toronto moving forward in his career.

    Woodson, is a NY guy, with a background of being a hard nosed player; which I feel will better suit him as an assistant to get in the faces of guys on the bench, while mike gets in the faces of the refs.

  11. #11
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Those things have nothing to do with defense. They're team philosophy, and I for one, am tired of being a fan of a team that "lives by the 3, and dies by the 3."
    I agree with most of what you said, but I think no matter what style of play, come playoffs every team lives and dies by the three. It is just that some live and others die (Dallas 2011 vs. Knicks 1994).

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    As of today, I don't believe that there will be a 11-12 season...Chandler signed for a Chinese team, with no option to terminate the contract. Surely he must be 100% sure that there will be no season...

    So we'll have to wait over a year to see Melo, STAT and Douglas back in action at MSG. Will be a long long time.....

  13. #13
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    As of today, I don't believe that there will be a 11-12 season...Chandler signed for a Chinese team, with no option to terminate the contract. Surely he must be 100% sure that there will be no season...

    So we'll have to wait over a year to see Melo, STAT and Douglas back in action at MSG. Will be a long long time.....
    Money talks. Not all NBA teams own their own arena like the Knicks and Lakers, when it's time to pay that rent and there's withdrawals from the bank accounts with no deposits...owners will say "wait a damn minute."

    There's much to be learned from the NFL lockout, because they actually had a league full of teams that could realistically miss a calendar year of football. The NBA has like...maybe 4 teams that could realistically miss a season.

    Folks gotta watch what they hear in the media (same media swearing that we wouldn't get a FA in 2010, we wouldn't get Melo, there would be no NFL season, etc) Sometimes they know literally as much as we know.

    Both sides not talking means both sides aren't talking. The NFL and the PA didn't resolve anything until countless court dates for antitrust lawsuits, which were bargaining chips and posturing, because the NFL's antitrust status not only has nothing to do with the CBA, but was already litigated in that American Needle thing from a while back. The two sides didn't sit down and make any headway until like 3 weeks before an agreement was made. We still have 2 months until the season, I could see there being a shortened preseason or maybe a few games in November being missed...but there will be a season.

    I'll look at the reports of things looking bleak, and the inevitable cancelled season, the same way I looked at the "Melo to NJ is all but done, 48 hours away, etc" reports. Yea. the. ****. right.

  14. #14
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Money talks. Not all NBA teams own their own arena like the Knicks and Lakers, when it's time to pay that rent and there's withdrawals from the bank accounts with no deposits...owners will say "wait a damn minute."

    There's much to be learned from the NFL lockout, because they actually had a league full of teams that could realistically miss a calendar year of football. The NBA has like...maybe 4 teams that could realistically miss a season.

    Folks gotta watch what they hear in the media (same media swearing that we wouldn't get a FA in 2010, we wouldn't get Melo, there would be no NFL season, etc) Sometimes they know literally as much as we know.

    Both sides not talking means both sides aren't talking. The NFL and the PA didn't resolve anything until countless court dates for antitrust lawsuits, which were bargaining chips and posturing, because the NFL's antitrust status not only has nothing to do with the CBA, but was already litigated in that American Needle thing from a while back. The two sides didn't sit down and make any headway until like 3 weeks before an agreement was made. We still have 2 months until the season, I could see there being a shortened preseason or maybe a few games in November being missed...but there will be a season.

    I'll look at the reports of things looking bleak, and the inevitable cancelled season, the same way I looked at the "Melo to NJ is all but done, 48 hours away, etc" reports. Yea. the. ****. right.
    nice post man

  15. #15
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Money talks. Not all NBA teams own their own arena like the Knicks and Lakers, when it's time to pay that rent and there's withdrawals from the bank accounts with no deposits...owners will say "wait a damn minute."

    There's much to be learned from the NFL lockout, because they actually had a league full of teams that could realistically miss a calendar year of football. The NBA has like...maybe 4 teams that could realistically miss a season.

    Folks gotta watch what they hear in the media (same media swearing that we wouldn't get a FA in 2010, we wouldn't get Melo, there would be no NFL season, etc) Sometimes they know literally as much as we know.

    Both sides not talking means both sides aren't talking. The NFL and the PA didn't resolve anything until countless court dates for antitrust lawsuits, which were bargaining chips and posturing, because the NFL's antitrust status not only has nothing to do with the CBA, but was already litigated in that American Needle thing from a while back. The two sides didn't sit down and make any headway until like 3 weeks before an agreement was made. We still have 2 months until the season, I could see there being a shortened preseason or maybe a few games in November being missed...but there will be a season.

    I'll look at the reports of things looking bleak, and the inevitable cancelled season, the same way I looked at the "Melo to NJ is all but done, 48 hours away, etc" reports. Yea. the. ****. right.
    Do you think maybe the season would just end later? If it's a few games, might as well have the full season, unless the already made schedules would make this too difficult.

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