Who should start at sg?

Landry Fields hands down. He is a perfect role player. Anyone who has said differently has forgotten how real the rookie wall is. He struggled, for sure, in the second half of the season. However, have people forgotten how marvelous his first half of the season was?

And, even despite his poor second half, he still led all guards in rebounding.

The kid is only going to get better. He deserves to be there. The other players fit more of the backup roles. Shumpert is a defensive "shooting" guard who can't shoot, nor does he possess the basketball acumen of Fields... TD is a good sixth man off the bench, who is too small to play the 2 spot. Billy Walker is... well... Bill Walker. Can hit some shots and heat up, but he's not a starter...

Landry is exactly what the team needs in that spot. There was talk of ROY (if not for Blake Griffin).

Any one who says differently just has short memories.

Leroy!

LANDRY! The Half Blood Prince!

I understand that a lot of fans got down on him after the Melo trade. He was the odd man out of the game plan because his game didn't really have a definitive role from day one: intangibles not being a facet of any game plan. When the starting 5 changed from 1 ball dominant player to 2, Landry was merely a cutback, and his offence suffered from the abrupt unfamiliarity.

Once chemistry is found between him, Melo, STAT and Billups, I expect a full return to previous form. As LJ said, Melo needs to incorporate Landry in to his own game for both of them to be more effective. That was the chief reason for Landry's decline as the season closed.

Fields V Shumpert: The starting role goes to the player with experience on and off the court - off the court as in travel, familiarity with self preparation etc. If Iman shines brighter, let him take the reigns mid-season. Certainly a WAY TOO EARLY call to say that he's ready to step in. IMO, he should run the 2nd unit point with Toney at the 2 and guard, as SSj4 stated, the dominant offensive back-court opponent.

MusketeerX said:

Landry Fields hands down. He is a perfect role player. Anyone who has said differently has forgotten how real the rookie wall is. He struggled, for sure, in the second half of the season. However, have people forgotten how marvelous his first half of the season was?

And, even despite his poor second half, he still led all guards in rebounding.

Click to expand...

I agree with what you're saying. Landry did, however, end up getting snuffed by DWade for highest RPG guard.

SMH at people making any kind of definitive statements about Iman Shumpert, have you seen him play anything useful yet? He doesn't have a strong basketball acumen, he can't shoot? Based on what? Based on draft reports that he needed to improve his perimeter game? Sure there were those reports, but he's had plenty of time to improve, and has videos online proving he has worked at least long enough to get a short video where he's shot pretty well. Uncontested jumpers at practice does not prove greatness, but on the flip side a low percentage when he was often taking poor shots as the star of a college team doesn't mean low percentages for us, when he'll be asked only to take good shots with Anthony and Stoudemire around. I'm not saying he should start game one, my point is people are making judgements pretty quick, and hopefully he surprises some of you by being the real deal. As a side note, I hope we can actually put some games away so some lower bench players can get more garbage time, I want to see Andy and Bill play more, but obviously not my choices in tight games.

Paul1355 said:

i have to disagree with you on Fields' defense. Fields has always been above average but Toney Dougllas is a gritty defensive player who is much better than Fields and if Iman Shumpert lives up to his scouting reports, he should be a taller version of Toney Douglas, making fields the dud on defense.

We saw how Fieds would get torched by SG with three point range. Fields hustles but is very bad at guarding players who come off screrens. We saw this with Ray Allen. Allen torched us because Douglas had to gourd Rondo, which left Fields with the task of guarding Allen who is faster than him.

I kno you might say it isn't fare that im judging fields defense based on his performance against Allen who gives everyone a problem when he comes off the high screen and makes his classic three point shot. But Fields was so bad that Allen basically averaged 30 ppg on us.

Allen was never guarded well on any level because Fields simply did not know how to guard him.

Fields did a better job of guarding Rondo, Fields would guard against the drive well which Rondo is exceptional at. Fields has a hard time with perimeter defense.

Because of this Fields should be the third option to guard a SG with shooting range.

Click to expand...

I had to plead the 5th this summer at the mention of the Knicks
postseason games in the Barber-Shop or with friends and relatives.
The Boston Celtics is a helluva well coached team with All-Star
players at PG, SG, and SF who been "jellin" well as "starters and
finishers" for the past 4 playoff seasons.
It is unfair to evaluate rookie Fields or 2nd season Douglas performance
vs a well organized ex-championship team in a series with an unorganize
bum-coach Dantoni depending on PG-Chuancy Billups to call all the shots.

Chuancy Billups outstanding performance in the first game of the
playoff showed us he was worth every penny of the $14M in this
upcoming season.

The Knicks first 3 guards on the court will be Billups, Fields, and TD.
Rookie Iman Shumpert will be challenging final contract season Walker
for playingtime as the 4th guard in the rotation.

The Knicks should suprise everyone by signing two FA centers when
the lockout ends.....C-Kwame & C-Jason Collins asap.
They will be easy to sign to 1 year contracts, plus C-Kwame & PF-Turiaf
were teammates on the Lakers, and C-Collins & PF-Stat were teammates
on the Suns. These two FA could give the Knicks a huge-edge in the
upcoming season for a spot in the ECF.
:smokin: :gony: :smokin:

WNY_Knickfan said:

SMH at people making any kind of definitive statements about Iman Shumpert, have you seen him play anything useful yet? He doesn't have a strong basketball acumen, he can't shoot? Based on what? Based on draft reports that he needed to improve his perimeter game? Sure there were those reports, but he's had plenty of time to improve, and has videos online proving he has worked at least long enough to get a short video where he's shot pretty well. Uncontested jumpers at practice does not prove greatness, but on the flip side a low percentage when he was often taking poor shots as the star of a college team doesn't mean low percentages for us, when he'll be asked only to take good shots with Anthony and Stoudemire around. I'm not saying he should start game one, my point is people are making judgements pretty quick, and hopefully he surprises some of you by being the real deal. As a side note, I hope we can actually put some games away so some lower bench players can get more garbage time, I want to see Andy and Bill play more, but obviously not my choices in tight games.

Click to expand...

:thumbsup: Great point.....its nice to be an optimistic Knicks-Fan but some
has went over-board on Iman Shumpert workouts.
Then again, last offseason I too was "over-hyped" after watching 4
summer league games of Landry Fields (veteran performance). But I
did not want Landry Fields to be a Starter lastseason....I thought we
wouldve been bright enough to trade All-Star David Lee for a starting
SG (Monta Ellis), when both Stat & Felton commited to signing with the Knicks.
The oportunity was there to have a 2010-11 starting lineup of....
PG-Felton, SG-Ellis, SF-Chandler, PF-Stat, and C-???.....
but dum-dum Walsh & Dantoni put more effort into Bamboozling this Knicks
team on purpose the past 3 seasons then clueless Isiah did in trying to win
more then 23 games a season.

Kiyaman said:

I had to plead the 5th this summer at the mention of the Knicks
postseason games in the Barber-Shop or with friends and relatives.
The Boston Celtics is a helluva well coached team with All-Star
players at PG, SG, and SF who been "jellin" well as "starters and
finishers" for the past 4 playoff seasons.
It is unfair to evaluate rookie Fields or 2nd season Douglas performance
vs a well organized ex-championship team in a series with an unorganize
bum-coach Dantoni depending on PG-Chuancy Billups to call all the shots.

Chuancy Billups outstanding performance in the first game of the
playoff showed us he was worth every penny of the $14M in this
upcoming season.

The Knicks first 3 guards on the court will be Billups, Fields, and TD.
Rookie Iman Shumpert will be challenging final contract season Walker
for playingtime as the 4th guard in the rotation.

The Knicks should suprise everyone by signing two FA centers when
the lockout ends.....C-Kwame & C-Jason Collins asap.
They will be easy to sign to 1 year contracts, plus C-Kwame & PF-Turiaf
were teammates on the Lakers, and C-Collins & PF-Stat were teammates
on the Suns. These two FA could give the Knicks a huge-edge in the
upcoming season for a spot in the ECF.
:smokin: :gony: :smokin:

Click to expand...

I know Allen is an all star and Fields is a rookie starter....but Allen completely torched us because he knew he wasn't guarded well and just kept hitting open shots....in the mean time Mike D did not bench Fields until the damage was already done.

Still Fields is to blame for his poor perimeter defense. I just don't want you saying his defense is exceptional or on the same level as Toney Douglas, because frankly it isn't.

If it was then Allen would not drained every shot from downtown in every game. Allen would have been contested, somewhat, and his 3 point fg% wouldn't have been as high.

Fact is Fields failed to cover Allen and not only did we suffer, we got massacred by a mid 30 year old sharp shooter who wasn't contested. Not acceptable and not the exceptional defense honors award.

Possibility

Not to say this will happen but there might be a chance of a return of Jamal Crawford. Least likely and don't need him but still relates to the Knicks sg question.

Ex-Knick Jamal Crawford leaves Goodwin agency

BY Frank Isola
Jamal Crawford, who could love nothing more than to rejoin the Knicks when a new collective bargaining agreement is finalized, will apparently have new representation when he officially becomes a free agent.


According to a person close to the former Knicks shooting guard, Crawford has parted ways with his longtime agency, Goodwin Sports Management, and is seeking a new agent.


The Goodwin brothers, Aaron and Eric, have maintained a good relationship with the Knicks, particularly when Isiah Thomas was in charge. It was Thomas who orchestrated a sign-and-trade with the Bulls to originally acquire Crawford. Thomas also made a draft day trade for another Goodwin client, Nate Robinson.


The Goodwin's top client is Kevin Durant. The Goodwins, based out of Seattle, for obvious reasons have dominated that market for years. They represented former Sonics guard Gary Payton. They were also LeBron James' first agent before James left for CAA.


Crawford, 30, has been one of the NBA's top sixth men the last two seasons with the Atlanta Hawks. Last season, he averaged 14.2 points, his lowest scoring average in 10 seasons. However, he did help Atlanta reach the second round of the playoffs.


If the Knicks wanted to acquire Crawford, they likely would have to work out a sign-and-trade with Atlanta, which is unlikely. In November, when asked about possibly returning to New York, Crawford said, "Why not? I don't think the trade was personal. It was all about 2010 and the players you can possibly get. I love Atlanta. I want to work out an extension here, but if I become a free agent it's not the end of the world."


"I'll definitely listen," Crawford added. "If the extension isn't working out, I would definitely listen for sure. I would meet with them."


The Nets are a possibility also, since New Jersey could use a scorer.

Didn't want to make another thread about this because this is not much to say.

I liked Crawford when he was on the Knicks but it did annoy me watching him constantly put up bad shots. Played well for the Hawks, last season wasn't his best.

Just for fun

I would like to see if you guys could think of a way to make this happen. (most likely losing one or two guards)

What role you think he will have?

How will this help or hurt the Knicks?

Is it worth it?

Paul1355 said:

I know Allen is an all star and Fields is a rookie starter....but Allen completely torched us because he knew he wasn't guarded well and just kept hitting open shots....in the mean time Mike D did not bench Fields until the damage was already done.

Still Fields is to blame for his poor perimeter defense. I just don't want you saying his defense is exceptional or on the same level as Toney Douglas, because frankly it isn't.

If it was then Allen would not drained every shot from downtown in every game. Allen would have been contested, somewhat, and his 3 point fg% wouldn't have been as high.

Fact is Fields failed to cover Allen and not only did we suffer, we got massacred by a mid 30 year old sharp shooter who wasn't contested. Not acceptable and not the exceptional defense honors award.

Click to expand...

Ray Allen makes EVERYONE look like that. The guy is an all-star for a reason. All he needs is a half-a-second of daylight. He did this to everyone on our team, including TD. He has a habit of hitting ridiculous shots, and there are very few people who can guard him as he runs off three screens. The impetus is to have a help defender take him out of his rhythm. D'Antoni failed for not making the proper adjustments.

You can't put that on Landry Fields. To quote Toney Douglas, "Ray Allen do what Ray Allen do."

MusketeerX said:

Ray Allen makes EVERYONE look like that. The guy is an all-star for a reason. All he needs is a half-a-second of daylight. He did this to everyone on our team, including TD. He has a habit of hitting ridiculous shots, and there are very few people who can guard him as he runs off three screens. The impetus is to have a help defender take him out of his rhythm. D'Antoni failed for not making the proper adjustments.

You can't put that on Landry Fields. To quote Toney Douglas, "Ray Allen do what Ray Allen do."

Click to expand...

Nothing was worse than the defense against Rondo. It took Anthony Carter in the the second half of game 4 to stop him. Of course, it took D'Antoni that long to play him even though he should have been starting or being the back-up point once Billups went down.

serendipity10 said:

Not to say this will happen but there might be a chance of a return of Jamal Crawford. Least likely and don't need him but still relates to the Knicks sg question.

Ex-Knick Jamal Crawford leaves Goodwin agency

BY Frank Isola
Jamal Crawford, who could love nothing more than to rejoin the Knicks when a new collective bargaining agreement is finalized, will apparently have new representation when he officially becomes a free agent.


According to a person close to the former Knicks shooting guard, Crawford has parted ways with his longtime agency, Goodwin Sports Management, and is seeking a new agent.


The Goodwin brothers, Aaron and Eric, have maintained a good relationship with the Knicks, particularly when Isiah Thomas was in charge. It was Thomas who orchestrated a sign-and-trade with the Bulls to originally acquire Crawford. Thomas also made a draft day trade for another Goodwin client, Nate Robinson.


The Goodwin's top client is Kevin Durant. The Goodwins, based out of Seattle, for obvious reasons have dominated that market for years. They represented former Sonics guard Gary Payton. They were also LeBron James' first agent before James left for CAA.


Crawford, 30, has been one of the NBA's top sixth men the last two seasons with the Atlanta Hawks. Last season, he averaged 14.2 points, his lowest scoring average in 10 seasons. However, he did help Atlanta reach the second round of the playoffs.


If the Knicks wanted to acquire Crawford, they likely would have to work out a sign-and-trade with Atlanta, which is unlikely. In November, when asked about possibly returning to New York, Crawford said, "Why not? I don't think the trade was personal. It was all about 2010 and the players you can possibly get. I love Atlanta. I want to work out an extension here, but if I become a free agent it's not the end of the world."


"I'll definitely listen," Crawford added. "If the extension isn't working out, I would definitely listen for sure. I would meet with them."


The Nets are a possibility also, since New Jersey could use a scorer.

Click to expand...

:barf:
Jamal Crawful is no-no in a Knicks uniform, his bad shot selection and
inconsistency was not as terrible as Crawford cross-over dribble eating
up 15 plus seconds of the shot clock with no defender on him.
The entire NBA knew Crawford was not going to slash to the basket, so
all the cross-over dribbling was a waste.
To add Crawford with Carmelo is just the same as Crawford with Marbury,
two players dominating the ball on every offensive play, while both being
in wonder-land on the defensive-end of the court.

LJ4ptplay said:

Melo's ball dominance definitely affected Fields' play. It was almost instantaneous. As soon as Melo came to the Knicks, Fields looked awful. He had his struggles off an on throughout the entire season, as one would expect from a rookie, but he never looked comfortable with Melo.

Fields is a smart player though. I think he'll eventually figure out the rhythm of playing alongside such a ball dominant player, at least I hope he does. All he really needs to do is become a better spot-up 3 point shooter from spots other than the corner and increase his ball-handling skills. Improve those two things and just continue doing what he did so well for us (e.g. crash the boards, play solid defense, etc) and he's really the perfect SG to play along Melo, Billups and Amare. And Melo needs to learn how to pass the freaking ball too.

Douglas shouldn't start at SG and Iman is nowhere near ready to start. Fields is going to have to be our starter.

Click to expand...

:agreed::agreed::agreed:

After the Melo trade so many things changed in the Knicks rotation....
Mason Jr. was taking out of the November DNP doghouse, and Walker
was put into the DNP doghouse. TD was no-longer Fields backup, Mason Jr.
became Fields backup. We no longer had a 40+ minute per game PG in
(Felton, Duhon, or Marbury), so Toney Douglas got his first chance to lead
the Knicks at the "point-guard" spot for more than 3 minutes straight. It was
Toney Douglas first time to lead the point for 8 straight minutes in the regular
season as a Knicks guard......thanks to the Melo-trade TD got his first
chance to develope his skills as a NBA PG. Such happiness on a sore shoulder
made TD PG skillz inconsistent within those final 36 games vs oponents
experience backcourt tandems.

Landry Fields and Toney Douglas graded a B in teammate-talent as first
and second season-players in their 86 and 85 games lastseason.
They werent great but they added to some great moments throughout
the season.
:thumbsup:

TD was hurt, though.

Fields was just terrible.

:barf:

Kiyaman said:

:barf:
Jamal Crawful is no-no in a Knicks uniform, his bad shot selection and
inconsistency was not as terrible as Crawford cross-over dribble eating
up 15 plus seconds of the shot clock with no defender on him.
The entire NBA knew Crawford was not going to slash to the basket, so
all the cross-over dribbling was a waste.
To add Crawford with Carmelo is just the same as Crawford with Marbury,
two players dominating the ball on every offensive play, while both being
in wonder-land on the defensive-end of the court.

Click to expand...

I mentioned it wasn't the best idea, Crawford would hurt the team. I was trying to put up a thinking exercise just to continue looking at sg options.

How this might be possible? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4yda8rs

Knicks get: Kirk Hinrich, Crawford, and Etan Thomas

Hawks get: Billups, Balkman, and Mason Jr.

What role will Crawford have? role player off the bench

How will this help or hurt the Knicks?

help: Crawford was once sixth man of the year, he can score off the bench to help the team and if this sign and trade with Crawford and Etan Thomas were to happen it would give the Knicks a defensive Center. Kirk Hinrich is not Billups but also has the ability to play defense, play point, and also has 1 more year on his contract. The only thing I like about the trade, the Knicks get rid of Balkman and Mason Jr.

(Hurt): Hinrich is not Billups. Crawford puts up bad shots, will hurt development of young guards, and Kiyaman is right the team chemistry will be bad. All of this is more important than the help.

Is it worth it? No it is not worth it, Crawford isn't needed.

After the postseasons games, and days before the 2011 draft, I was looking at the best cheap FA we could aquire during the summer....names like Arron Brooks, Jason Collins, and Sean Williams became the 3 missing pieces to get the Knicks to the ECF.

I had Billups as a starter with either Fields or TD in the backcourt using a 4-guard rotation throughout the regular season.

Crawford has some potential to be a solid roleplayer but we don't need him. A team with Melo and Amar'e does not need scoring like Crawford's off the bench as much as it needs defense.

TD is a good enough scorer off the bench, we don't need another type like that. TD and Fields can do a great job off the bench - I think our team is fine on scoring. We need defense and rebounding.

We will need time to figure this one out.

From what I've seen thus far...Fields was busy watching the Stat and Mello show late last season and had problems adjusting his game. I did like what he brought in rebounding. But just like so many was shocked at what he was able to do early last year...we might be seeing the same thing (and more) from Iman in the D'Ant scoring minded system.

If Iman plays like he did in College he will easy slip into the starting line up sooner rather than later...simply due to his defense alone.

If Walker can't find his nitch with the team half way thru the season... he will be coming off the bench again as a role player to keep the tempo upbeat....in his last year as a Knick.

T.Doug has the potential to start. He's scrappy and is developing a consistant long shot and plays great D. He still needs to find the open players faster...and someone other then his favorite target Turiuf.

Billups experience will lock down the starting PG postion (4 now) but his health will be the deciding factor.

We are going to need to see how these guys play with each other B4 stating who'll be starting in the back court.

Real NY Baller said:

We will need time to figure this one out.

From what I've seen thus far...Fields was busy watching the Stat and Mello show late last season and had problems adjusting his game. I did like what he brought in rebounding. But just like so many was shocked at what he was able to do early last year...we might be seeing the same thing (and more) from Iman in the D'Ant scoring minded system.

If Iman plays like he did in College he will easy slip into the starting line up sooner rather than later...simply due to his defense alone.

If Walker can't find his nitch with the team half way thru the season... he will be coming off the bench again as a role player to keep the tempo upbeat....in his last year as a Knick.

T.Doug has the potential to start. He's scrappy and is developing a consistant long shot and plays great D. He still needs to find the open players faster...and someone other then his favorite target Turiuf.

Billups experience will lock down the starting PG postion (4 now) but his health will be the deciding factor.

We are going to need to see how these guys play with each other B4 stating who'll be starting in the back court.

Click to expand...

I agree.....we will have to see how well these guys co-exist before deciding
who would is best to start at SG.
Knowing somewhat of Billups history, the Knicks agreeing to his final year
contract @$14M will have Billups take over the guard-rotation (not Dantoni).
I expect to see Billups & Douglas running the point in the upcoming season.
Iman will get a shot at the PG during the preseason, but will only see spot
minutes at the point during the regular season. I like Iman work-ethic but....
the best thing about drafting Iman Shumpert is having Chuancy Billups
tutorship to guide his rookie year to a bright future in the NBA.

Lastseason before the Melo-trade, Bill Walker was lighting it up coming
off the bench. At that time Walker was perfect to put in the starting
lineup with Felton to take pressure off of rookie Landry Fields. TD couldve
kept coming into the game after the first 6 minutes of the first quarter as
the backup SG. This wouldve let Fields & Douglas work on jellin to start
the 2nd quarter of each game. Plus it wouldve raised Bill Walkers trade
value before the deadline.

I still believe we shouldve drafted 6.8 Faried or 6.9 Singleton with the
17th pick for their high IQ at defensive-rebounding and boxing-out of
the paint while playing defense at multi-position (SF/PF). Either of these
two rookies could be develope to backup Amare while Melo is scoring and
visa versa. I dont see Dantoni giving Balkman any playingtime (personal),
so selecting a tough defensive player that plays both PF/SF to take
pressure off of Amare & Melo wouldve been an A+ for the team.
Plus Fields need to develope more skills at the SG rather than boxing-out
of the paint each game for rebounds like a SF. Fields is a great transition
player to have up top defending the passing-lane. This wouldve made our
main Goal this summer to sign a FA center......T.Chandler, Gasol, Dalembert,
Nene, Collins, or Kwame

MY PREDICTION
Billups -stays healthy and runs the point. Hes still got it

Fields- develops quicker release better ball handling and with a 2nd year finds his role

Iman- subs in at Sg to help defend and may even see some pg time

Toney- hes solid off the bench but a 6'1 SG is a joke hopefully he learns to handle the offense better and can really give billups some rest time

Rautins/Mason/Walker- IMO while they all have some assests they bring to the table but all need to be traded.

If Iman meets his potential I can see him getting the starting position but lets not forget Fields was 2nd in the league amongst guards in rebounding, he has a shot!, High IQ , good work ethic, and not to mention alot of the issues against the Celtdicks were due to the inability of our coaching staff. If iman and Fields continue to develop I see them two as essential to our organization providing good work ethic, defense, rebounding, and the ability to score while providing the knicks with a deeper bench.

You have To make Fields the starter with a guard combination of TD & Iman playing spot minutes at SG and PG as well. If Iman improves and Fields falters, they can then slide Fields into a 6th man role similar to Barnes on the lakers.

Also I want to see who gets released in amnesty since the Knicks are enough of a contender they can attract someone to Play for them on a minimum contract. With the Forwards spots secure having a few extra guards (in a D'antoni system) is a great look because it will give us more options offensively and defensively to compensate for the Knicks lack of a young (proven) high quality player at the Guards position.