Mozgov Amazing

Scipio

Benchwarmer
Well the Eurobasket tournament has ended. I watched all of the games played by Russia, France, Spain and Lithuania and about 90% of all the other games.

I cannot believe how good Timofey Mozgov was. He was immense for Russia and looks like a completley different player than the one he was when playing for the Knicks. He was the defensive force in Russia`s defence, which incidentally was the best D team in the whole tournament. Blocking shots, clogging up the paint, rebounding, he was doing everything. On the offensive end he was also a giant. His scoring from the pick and roll was a joy to watch and that has improved so much since being seen in a Knicks jersey.

The same problem of foul trouble was still evident but as the tournament wore on he improved that. He looked exactly like the kind of big that we are so desperately screaming out for. How ironic that we had him and now he`s back wasting his immerging talent in Russia.

He deserved better from our no D-Toni clown.
 

Scipio

Benchwarmer
Please accept my apoligies fellas. I suppose this should have been posted in the NBA section not on the Knicks section. If that`s the case then could some kind mod move it?

Sorry for giving you mod guys the extra work.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Mozgov was a 6 year KEEPER

Mozgov was a Bigman-rookie to the NBA and this country.
Mozgov raw talent showed to be a great backup center.
:thumbsup:
Jordan Hill was a Bigman rookie and the perfect PF to backup Amare.
Anthony Randolph was an athletic spring-board to rebound & blockshots
at either PF or SF position.
:thumbsup:
These three Bigmen are not double-digit scorers they are defensive
anchors for the paint (STOPS!).
These bigmen wouldve been great for us if we had a defensive-scheme
or format to fit them into.
The only reason a headcoach would DNP these bigmen is b/c the team
have a better defensive-bigman.

Did the Knicks have a better defensive-bigman???
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
I appreciate the update on Mozgov, Scipio. That's great.

Did the Knicks have a better defensive-bigman???
Aside from Turiaf, who was injured a lot, no. Mozgov finally getting to play only because of too many injuries is a joke. It wouldn't surprise me if D'Antoni still wouldn't have played him if it wasn't for that. It also wouldn't surprise me if D'Antoni only picked Fields as a starter as a PR move to quiet a lot of doubters.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Wasn't his contract a 3 year deal with the option of termination after the first year?

Did Denver pick that up?

I'd love to see The Gov back in NYC.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Crazy⑧s;186110 said:
Wasn't his contract a 3 year deal with the option of termination after the first year?

Did Denver pick that up?

I'd love to see The Gov back in NYC.
Looked it up and it doesn't say anything about a team option this year. Says he's a FA in 2013.

Unlike Jorts he was a legit 7 footer who had above average athleticism, that's valuable in the NBA, wish we didn't give him up.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Looked it up and it doesn't say anything about a team option this year. Says he's a FA in 2013.

Unlike Jorts he was a legit 7 footer who had above average athleticism, that's valuable in the NBA, wish we didn't give him up.

Absolutely. The Gov and AR. So much potential. So much lame doghouse politics. Both, mind you, still have a long ways to go.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I appreciate the update on Mozgov, Scipio. That's great.


Aside from Turiaf, who was injured a lot, no. Mozgov finally getting to play only because of too many injuries is a joke. It wouldn't surprise me if D'Antoni still wouldn't have played him if it wasn't for that. It also wouldn't surprise me if D'Antoni only picked Fields as a starter as a PR move to quiet a lot of doubters.


What was reckless about the Knicks the past three seasons was
the coaching of the bigman rotation....didnt have a clue.

One would think the headcoach wouldve had strong interest in
jellin all the Knicks contracts that went into the 2010-11 season
during the 2009-10 season.....but he didnt.
u also wouldve thought the Knicks had plans on keeping fan favorite
David Lee when Amare and Felton committed to signing with the Knicks
when at the same time negotiation with 7.0 C-Mozgov were in the final
days before the Lee trade.

The Knicks had 4 defensive bigmen to rotate in the frontcourt with Amare
lastseason in "Mozgov, Turiaf, AR, and Chandler". Each of these 4 bigmen
had 4 valuable fouls to give in a game protecting the paint.
It was PG-Felton & Dantoni duty to patiently work-on inside scoring from
each of these bigmen as the season went on.....but they didnt.

Whenever this season get under way we will see the big difference in having
an average PG-Felton vs an All-Star PG-Chauncy Billups who is capable of
getting all 4 players in his lineup to score early in the first quarter (players
like BigBen and Nene).
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
here we go again

lets hold onto this guy who avg 2 ppg and like 3 rebs a game

and randolph who shoots nothing but bricks, and only looks good on a team like the timberwolves

and jordan hill who averages 5 ppg and 5 rebounds, being placed on the bench behind a 6 foot 6 center on the rockets lol

lets hold onto these chumps for Carmelo anthony and Chauncy Billups


Kiya would love for the knicks to be the timberwolves for the next 5 years.

I love it.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
here we go again

lets hold onto this guy who avg 2 ppg and like 3 rebs a game

and randolph who shoots nothing but bricks, and only looks good on a team like the timberwolves

and jordan hill who averages 5 ppg and 5 rebounds, being placed on the bench behind a 6 foot 6 center on the rockets lol

lets hold onto these chumps for Carmelo anthony and Chauncy Billups


Kiya would love for the knicks to be the timberwolves for the next 5 years.

I love it.

Comparing Billups and Melo to those 3 is not the point.

No matter how the advocators twist it, it's not like we came out smelling rosy once all was said and done, because there'll always be that hint of sh!t when it comes to the Melo trade. I don't think we should have allowed the opportunistic Hahn to cash in on both Randolph and Curry's +50% paid expiring. Then there's the obvious other reason to not be completely happy about what happened.

12 days until training is supposed to commence, and we have 3 front court players. Hanging on to one of them - Gov, AR, would have added some relief to say the least. That's, IMO, justified whining.
 
2 different leagues. Plus, the NBA is way more talented and better coached. Moz, in his current condition is just role player material. When he finally learns how to play defense without picking up dumb fouls... he'll have the potential (and the right) to be in discussions about great basketball players.
 
crazy come on man, I love your posts and habby birthday btw

the bottom line is, what we gave away were contracts that would of had to be moved or players that would not of been resigned any way

essentially we traded melo for gallinari

and upgraded at PG with billups

randolph is sub par

mozgof is sub par

and chandler/gallinari are quality options but we would not of been able to keep both of them.

I understand that there are questions, but those questions are answered by the simple fact
that we needed to move randolph to move currys contract, so that we would clear cap space to extend MELO
something that if we waited until the summer would of had to be done any way if we wanted to sign MELO and keep our core

Gallinari or Chandler would have walked, and if we kept one or the other along side of melo, it would be pointless because they both do the same thing ( chandler is better at defense) as Melo just inconsistently.

Felton and Billups is a wash because Billups is light years ahead of Felton in all aspects of the game except maybe speed.

if you break it down like this

we traded

Felton for Billups- upgrade
Curry for Shelden williams- upgrade
Randolph for Shumpert- potential upgrade
Gallinari for Balkman/Carter - downgrade
Chandler for Melo - Upgrade
Mozgof for Jefferies - downgrade


after those trading deadline moves
with the retainment of Fields, Douglas, Walker

you cannot say that we didnt come out a better team.


how is a core of youth and scoring and potential consisting of

walker
douglas
shumpert
Fields
Turiaf
Jefferies
Sheldon williams
Jerome James

to compliment
Amare
Billups
Melo

worse off than

Walker
douglas
fields
turiaf
Randolph
Curry
mozgof
Felton

to compliment
Amare.
Chandler
Gallinari

it doesnt make sense
end of story.
 

Red

TYPE-A
here we go again

lets hold onto this guy who avg 2 ppg and like 3 rebs a game

and randolph who shoots nothing but bricks, and only looks good on a team like the timberwolves

and jordan hill who averages 5 ppg and 5 rebounds, being placed on the bench behind a 6 foot 6 center on the rockets lol

lets hold onto these chumps for Carmelo anthony and Chauncy Billups


Kiya would love for the knicks to be the timberwolves for the next 5 years.

I love it.

I think that post was more of an indictment on Mike Antoni, not a we didn't get fair value in th Melo trade.

This point is exacerbated by the fact that we still are in need of a center and that AR showed much more "potential" on TWO other teams.

When analyzing things from a priority standpoint, it doesn't matter what combination we have complimenting our stars because without a big the result equals fail, no matter how you slice it.

This isn't a Moz is so good / missing piece argument, it's a now look we still have no big or assets argument and the ame coach who couldn't use one anyway argument. Plus if when he departs, we'll still need a big and using MOA as the end all be all of what big is talented enough to pair with our stars is a misnomer...

Because the answer with regards to MOA is none.

BTW, you say the only team AR would look good on is the T-Wolves... *newsflash we were the T-Wolves (or mind as well have been)

And finally, bigs take time to cultivate, Moz was more than capable especially paired with our stars. He had size, athleticism, and was humble enough to learn and be unselfish, not to metion affordable. A Moz is better than none and WE all saw his potential. To bad our $6m dollar coach couldn't. If he did we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
Gallinari for Balkman/Carter - downgrade
Considering we don't need Gallinari with Melo, I consider having Anthony Carter an upgrade. A true PG who plays on both sides of the floor. Another guy D'Antoni didn't give the minutes to when we needed him the most (the Playoffs after Billups went down).

Last season wasn't the first season D'Antoni did ridiculous things with us. Nate Robinson had to be a spark off the bench on a team with Chris DUHON as the starting point? D'Antoni plays favorites.

As far AR goes, I don't know whether or not there was a good reason for him to not be played. Randolph made a lot of questionable plays. With Mozgov, he fouled too much, and maybe the communication wasn't there because of his English. However, he did show promise. If none of you ever saw AR's games before the Knicks you wouldn't be caring too much about him. Sure, I would have liked to see him play more. It's nothing to get mad about.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
Crazy⑧s;186110 said:
Wasn't his contract a 3 year deal with the option of termination after the first year?

Did Denver pick that up?

I'd love to see The Gov back in NYC.

Was thinking the same thing! I'm sure they did, as I believe they are losing Nene, right?
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
crazy come on man, I love your posts and habby birthday btw

Thanks very much! Your posts, as I've said, are always worth the read.

I understand that there are questions, but those questions are answered by the simple fact
that we needed to move randolph to move currys contract, so that we would clear cap space to extend MELO
something that if we waited until the summer would of had to be done any way if we wanted to sign MELO and keep our core

Well not really. Curry coming off the books adding space + the ability to sign and trade either or both of Chandler and Gallo to fasten our core [including perhaps Mozgov and Randolph] would have been nice.

Something along the lines of:

Felton
Fields
Melo - freshly signed.
STAT
D Jordan/Gasol

Turiaf
Jordan
Shumpert - potentially
Douglas
D Brown
S Williams
Walker

All very cheap players. You can add - or subtract - a myriad of names as new signees with the trade and cap flexibility we would have had. A team more so moulded for winning rather than being re-exposed for their 'lack there ofs'. All at the cost of a recently turned 35 year old Chauncey Billups. Who, BTW, has managed to injure himself in the Impact League ~ though only slightly.

That, at least, is how I see the alternate.

Gallinari or Chandler would have walked.

Not if we played the David Lee card again. Gallo was still under contract, I'm pretty sure.

Felton and Billups is a wash because Billups is light years ahead of Felton in all aspects of the game except maybe speed.

He is much better, it's true. But that expiration date of his is encroaching. Quickly! Certainly can't ignore that as a factor. I still think that Chauncey exceeds a stalemate between the 2 hands down.

if you break it down like this

we traded

Felton for Billups- upgrade
Curry for Shelden williams- upgrade
Randolph for Shumpert- potential upgrade
Gallinari for Balkman/Carter - downgrade
Chandler for Melo - Upgrade
Mozgof for Jefferies - downgrade


after those trading deadline moves
with the retainment of Fields, Douglas, Walker

you cannot say that we didnt come out a better team.


how is a core of youth and scoring and potential consisting of

walker
douglas
shumpert
Fields
Turiaf
Jefferies
Sheldon williams
Jerome James:lol: How dare you, DFDH!?

to compliment
Amare
Billups
Melo

worse off than

Walker
douglas
fields
turiaf
Randolph
Curry
mozgof
Felton

to compliment
Amare.
Chandler
Gallinari

it doesnt make sense
end of story.

It makes no sense if Gallo is subtracted, and if Wil is given up on. But that would be bad business. We had triggers ready to be pulled with those 2 once Melo came to town as a newly acquired FA.

Thanks for the HBDs, man. I'll hire a gypsy to conjure a 'get hot poon' spell for you.:beer:

I think that post was more of an indictment on Mike Antoni, not a we didn't get fair value in th Melo trade.

This point is exacerbated by the fact that we still are in need of a center and that AR showed much more "potential" on TWO other teams.

When analyzing things from a priority standpoint, it doesn't matter what combination we have complimenting our stars because without a big the result equals fail, no matter how you slice it.

This isn't a Moz is so good / missing piece argument, it's a now look we still have no big or assets argument and the ame coach who couldn't use one anyway argument. Plus if when he departs, we'll still need a big and using MOA as the end all be all of what big is talented enough to pair with our stars is a misnomer...

Because the answer with regards to MOA is none.

BTW, you say the only team AR would look good on is the T-Wolves... *newsflash we were the T-Wolves (or mind as well have been)

And finally, bigs take time to cultivate, Moz was more than capable especially paired with our stars. He had size, athleticism, and was humble enough to learn and be unselfish, not to metion affordable. A Moz is better than none and WE all saw his potential. To bad our $6m dollar coach couldn't. If he did we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

I can't +1 you again. Even if I did, I'd just be stroking myself vicariously because I agree with you. :lol:
 
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SSj4Wingzero

All Star
My only concern is reading somewhere (don't remember where) that Melo admitted he would've signed an extension with Denver or OK'd the trade to the Nets if the Knicks didn't get him...
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
My only concern is reading somewhere (don't remember where) that Melo admitted he would've signed an extension with Denver or OK'd the trade to the Nets if the Knicks didn't get him...

I think that was more likely a 'see, I'm not so greedy after all' political play. He wanted the market and his Johnny. Stars get what stars want. The rest is a shroud, IMO.

I occasionally wonder what it'd be like with DWil as a Knick and Melo a Net.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Crazy⑧s;186134 said:
I occasionally wonder what it'd be like with DWil as a Knick and Melo a Net.

I do to. The pick-and-roll with DWill and Amare and Mozgov would have been unstoppable. DWill was the better complimentary player with Amare and the system we run. The Nets didn't give up much. We could have got him for Gallo + Felton + pick. Could have kept Chandler and could have traded Randolph for OJ Mayo or Rudy Fernandez (or kept Randolph). Would have been a sick team. Oh well.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
The Nets didn't give up much? Are you high?

They gave up an athletic 6'10 forward in Derrick Favors (who has a higher ceiling than Gallo or Chandler or AR ever will) and Devin Harris (who is way better than Raymond Felton, the stats don't show it sometimes because Mike D's system inflates scoring and assist stats) as well as two draft picks, and you think we could have gotten D-Will with Felton, Gallo, and a pick?

It would have cost us Felton, Gallo, Chandler, and probably TWO picks. Yes, I do believe that the Jazz valued Derrick Favors that highly.

We gave up a lot more in our deal but at least we brought back roleplayers and upgraded the PG spot WHILE bringing in a superstar (whereas if we traded for D-Will we would have had to resort to playing garbage players for SF and PF with only a replacement PG.

Don't forget that despite the P&R and D'Antoni's system and all that, it's wing players who succeed in today's NBA.
 
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