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Thread: Mozgov Amazing

  1. #16
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    crazy come on man, I love your posts and habby birthday btw
    Thanks very much! Your posts, as I've said, are always worth the read.

    I understand that there are questions, but those questions are answered by the simple fact
    that we needed to move randolph to move currys contract, so that we would clear cap space to extend MELO
    something that if we waited until the summer would of had to be done any way if we wanted to sign MELO and keep our core
    Well not really. Curry coming off the books adding space + the ability to sign and trade either or both of Chandler and Gallo to fasten our core [including perhaps Mozgov and Randolph] would have been nice.

    Something along the lines of:

    Felton
    Fields
    Melo - freshly signed.
    STAT
    D Jordan/Gasol

    Turiaf
    Jordan
    Shumpert - potentially
    Douglas
    D Brown
    S Williams
    Walker

    All very cheap players. You can add - or subtract - a myriad of names as new signees with the trade and cap flexibility we would have had. A team more so moulded for winning rather than being re-exposed for their 'lack there ofs'. All at the cost of a recently turned 35 year old Chauncey Billups. Who, BTW, has managed to injure himself in the Impact League ~ though only slightly.

    That, at least, is how I see the alternate.

    Gallinari or Chandler would have walked.
    Not if we played the David Lee card again. Gallo was still under contract, I'm pretty sure.

    Felton and Billups is a wash because Billups is light years ahead of Felton in all aspects of the game except maybe speed.
    He is much better, it's true. But that expiration date of his is encroaching. Quickly! Certainly can't ignore that as a factor. I still think that Chauncey exceeds a stalemate between the 2 hands down.

    if you break it down like this

    we traded

    Felton for Billups- upgrade
    Curry for Shelden williams- upgrade
    Randolph for Shumpert- potential upgrade
    Gallinari for Balkman/Carter - downgrade
    Chandler for Melo - Upgrade
    Mozgof for Jefferies - downgrade


    after those trading deadline moves
    with the retainment of Fields, Douglas, Walker

    you cannot say that we didnt come out a better team.


    how is a core of youth and scoring and potential consisting of

    walker
    douglas
    shumpert
    Fields
    Turiaf
    Jefferies
    Sheldon williams
    Jerome James How dare you, DFDH!?

    to compliment
    Amare
    Billups
    Melo

    worse off than

    Walker
    douglas
    fields
    turiaf
    Randolph
    Curry
    mozgof
    Felton

    to compliment
    Amare.
    Chandler
    Gallinari

    it doesnt make sense
    end of story.
    It makes no sense if Gallo is subtracted, and if Wil is given up on. But that would be bad business. We had triggers ready to be pulled with those 2 once Melo came to town as a newly acquired FA.

    Thanks for the HBDs, man. I'll hire a gypsy to conjure a 'get hot poon' spell for you.

    Originally Posted by Red
    I think that post was more of an indictment on Mike Antoni, not a we didn't get fair value in th Melo trade.

    This point is exacerbated by the fact that we still are in need of a center and that AR showed much more "potential" on TWO other teams.

    When analyzing things from a priority standpoint, it doesn't matter what combination we have complimenting our stars because without a big the result equals fail, no matter how you slice it.

    This isn't a Moz is so good / missing piece argument, it's a now look we still have no big or assets argument and the ame coach who couldn't use one anyway argument. Plus if when he departs, we'll still need a big and using MOA as the end all be all of what big is talented enough to pair with our stars is a misnomer...

    Because the answer with regards to MOA is none.

    BTW, you say the only team AR would look good on is the T-Wolves... *newsflash we were the T-Wolves (or mind as well have been)

    And finally, bigs take time to cultivate, Moz was more than capable especially paired with our stars. He had size, athleticism, and was humble enough to learn and be unselfish, not to metion affordable. A Moz is better than none and WE all saw his potential. To bad our $6m dollar coach couldn't. If he did we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
    I can't +1 you again. Even if I did, I'd just be stroking myself vicariously because I agree with you.
    Last edited by Crazy⑧s; Sep 23, 2011 at 11:35. Reason: spelt chandler as chindler, which sounds like schindler. だめ

  2. #17
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    My only concern is reading somewhere (don't remember where) that Melo admitted he would've signed an extension with Denver or OK'd the trade to the Nets if the Knicks didn't get him...

  3. #18
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    My only concern is reading somewhere (don't remember where) that Melo admitted he would've signed an extension with Denver or OK'd the trade to the Nets if the Knicks didn't get him...
    I think that was more likely a 'see, I'm not so greedy after all' political play. He wanted the market and his Johnny. Stars get what stars want. The rest is a shroud, IMO.

    I occasionally wonder what it'd be like with DWil as a Knick and Melo a Net.

  4. #19
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I occasionally wonder what it'd be like with DWil as a Knick and Melo a Net.
    I do to. The pick-and-roll with DWill and Amare and Mozgov would have been unstoppable. DWill was the better complimentary player with Amare and the system we run. The Nets didn't give up much. We could have got him for Gallo + Felton + pick. Could have kept Chandler and could have traded Randolph for OJ Mayo or Rudy Fernandez (or kept Randolph). Would have been a sick team. Oh well.

  5. #20
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    The Nets didn't give up much? Are you high?

    They gave up an athletic 6'10 forward in Derrick Favors (who has a higher ceiling than Gallo or Chandler or AR ever will) and Devin Harris (who is way better than Raymond Felton, the stats don't show it sometimes because Mike D's system inflates scoring and assist stats) as well as two draft picks, and you think we could have gotten D-Will with Felton, Gallo, and a pick?

    It would have cost us Felton, Gallo, Chandler, and probably TWO picks. Yes, I do believe that the Jazz valued Derrick Favors that highly.

    We gave up a lot more in our deal but at least we brought back roleplayers and upgraded the PG spot WHILE bringing in a superstar (whereas if we traded for D-Will we would have had to resort to playing garbage players for SF and PF with only a replacement PG.

    Don't forget that despite the P&R and D'Antoni's system and all that, it's wing players who succeed in today's NBA.

  6. #21
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    The Nets didn't give up much? Are you high?

    They gave up an athletic 6'10 forward in Derrick Favors (who has a higher ceiling than Gallo or Chandler or AR ever will) and Devin Harris (who is way better than Raymond Felton, the stats don't show it sometimes because Mike D's system inflates scoring and assist stats) as well as two draft picks, and you think we could have gotten D-Will with Felton, Gallo, and a pick?

    It would have cost us Felton, Gallo, Chandler, and probably TWO picks. Yes, I do believe that the Jazz valued Derrick Favors that highly.
    I really don't think there's THAT much of a disparity between Felton and Harris. Harris proved his lack of worth as a PG over the last 2 seasons, IMO. Basically a poor [very poor at that] man's Derrick Rose. And hardly a play maker, either. Felton, I think, is a far more complimentary PG.

    We gave up a lot more in our deal but at least we brought back roleplayers and upgraded the PG spot WHILE bringing in a superstar (whereas if we traded for D-Will we would have had to resort to playing garbage players for SF and PF with only a replacement PG.
    That's true. Again, we speculate: could have been another multiple team trade with a much more favorable outcome.

    Anyway, I'd like to make it very clear that I'm happy with our roster through spots 1~4. The focal issues remaining are: propensity to get the most out of those 4 spots with D'Antoni and Woodson on both ends - as well as utilizing a second unit effectively -, and, most importantly/off topically, our approach toward pursuing CP3 VS building a complete team with our limited cap flexibility. Thanks Carmelo.

    What are we honestly going to offer N.O? As an estimated offer, I assume we'd lay out Billups, Fields, Shumpert and trade whoever we can to add picks other than our sole 2014 second rounder.

    As if they'll bite on that! NBA owned or no. Even if they're forced in to contraction, which is unlikely, I think we should build on what we have, starting at the 5. There'll be FAR better offers for CP3 than anything we can dream of cooking up.

    Thusly, Shumpert's play will be crucial this year, and I'm glad he's beginning a career under the tutelage of Billups.

  7. #22
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    Felton isn't much of a playmaker either. He had a hot streak when he was with D'Antoni but then fell down to Earth - for a period of time it looked like he could win a spot on the All-Star team and then we realized that he was just on a hot shooting streak and that he was actually nowhere near the shooter he was in December.

    I would take Harris over Felton - Harris averaged 7.6 APG in a very slow-paced team and Felton averaged 9.0 APG on a very fast-paced team. It doesn't help that both of them have terrible shot selection, though.

    Frankly I think the deal would have turned out the same either way. I'd rather get an elite wing player than an elite PG, just my opinion.

  8. #23
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Felton isn't much of a playmaker either. He had a hot streak when he was with D'Antoni but then fell down to Earth - for a period of time it looked like he could win a spot on the All-Star team and then we realized that he was just on a hot shooting streak and that he was actually nowhere near the shooter he was in December.

    I would take Harris over Felton - Harris averaged 7.6 APG in a very slow-paced team and Felton averaged 9.0 APG on a very fast-paced team. It doesn't help that both of them have terrible shot selection, though.

    Frankly I think the deal would have turned out the same either way. I'd rather get an elite wing player than an elite PG, just my opinion.
    Unless Melo is consistent with his defense, D-Will would have been the better choice to go along with Amar'e. Not that I'm complaining. I love Melo and he's on the team his favorite player was on (was Melo's favorite team the Knicks growing up?). Plus, D-Will is over here in my state now so all is good with me!

    As far as Harris goes, comparing him and Felton is kinda hard. Harris has been injured a lot. Even in his All-Star season he had an injury that might have cost the Nets making the Playoffs. Neither player are your ideal PG, aint too shabby though. When Harris had Carter, that might have been the reason why he got to do the damage he did. Felton also had Amar'e. Unlike Harris that season, Felton fell off after a couple of months (being played too much like Duhon did, not that Duhon was anywhere near Felton). Hopefully Felton and Harris have a healthy season so we can have a better judgement. Glad Felton isn't in a Nuggets uniform anymore. Unlike their uniforms, the Blazers' uniforms fits Felton's toughness and look much more. Plus, he'll be much more interesting there as he can do more. The Blazers never stop finding a way to be able to compete do they? Happy for them.

  9. #24
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    Angry We all are bored....passing-time during this lockout

    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    here we go again
    lets hold onto this guy who avg 2 ppg and like 3 rebs a game
    and randolph who shoots nothing but bricks, and only looks good on a team like the timberwolves
    and jordan hill who averages 5 ppg and 5 rebounds, being placed on the bench behind a 6 foot 6 center on the rockets lol

    lets hold onto these chumps for Carmelo anthony and Chauncy Billups
    Kiya would love for the knicks to be the timberwolves for the next 5 years.

    I love it.

    Its hard to figure u out........ your response to my post directed at
    bashing headcoach Dantoni's biggest flaw as a coach....he still use
    a small-rotation (and small lineup) of 6 to 7 (exhausted) players,
    while DNP 6 to 8 (healthy) bench-players in his rotation. It was cool
    and accepted in Phoenix having 3 to 4 all-star players on the roster,
    the Knicks barely had one all-star on their roster in the past 3 seasons.

    I read and listen to alot of sports writers and commentators speak on
    how well Dantoni's system improve players talents by lifting their stats....
    but never do these sports analyst mention how this same "system" actually
    deletes 8 to 7 players from participating in the rotation within a season.
    A "system" that has consistantly lowered the trade-value and FA value
    of 8 or more of (Phoenix/Knicks) players each season.

    u wrote about Anthony Randolph and Jordan Hill, what u didnt write was
    these two players "trade-value" were high untill being coached by Dantoni.
    Felton & Gerald Wallace duo can not be compared to a tandem of Felton
    and unstoppable Amare. The sameway Amare performance lifted a lot of
    his former frontcourt/backcourt teammates performance he couldve did
    the same with teammates on the Knicks....if they werent DNP.

    So far the best two trades the Knicks made in the last 15 years were by
    GM Ernie Grunfield and Owner James Dolan.

    RESPECT
    Kiya

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