WTF is going on?? LOCKOUT BS!!!

CoolClyde

CoolClyde

Moderator
so, another season is slowly going down the drain, no summer league, no training camp, pre-season games being phased out... slowly but surely, this season is f*cked. and for what?

so millionaire athletes can make millions more?
so people who make their (PT) living at arenas are out of work?

how many players lives are affected the way they are affecting the lives
of the folks who love basketball, and those who make their living from sales of basketball-related events? what do WE get out of this situation?

why does this happen? when someone forks over billions of dollars to own a franchise, shouldn't they have a say in how it's run, and not be forced to fork over most of their revenue to players who aren't worth half of what they're paid? what have these players done to deserve so much money, by being born tall, with skills to shoot a ball?

I'm being facetious and devil's-advocate reactionary here, but I am so pissed this is happening, I just can't partake of these forums until something happens. Why is Derek Fischer representing the entire sport of basketball anyway? who are these players, and why are they negotiating?

this sucks balls.

Crazy 8's what's up man?
 
LJ4ptplay

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Couldn't have said it better myself. If the season is cancelled because of greed the NBA will lose me as a fan entirely. And I've been as diehard a fan as there's been. I've been rather disgusted lately at what professional athletes in general have turned into. And with the lockout plus Melo most likely ruining any chances at the Knicks ever competing for a championship because he wanted a few extra million even though he's already made over $100 mil, a lost season would push me over the top. I'll spend my time doing other, more constructive things.
 
p0nder

p0nder

Starter
it's pretty bad, i gotta say. I'll always love the game and will be looking forward to playing in my local Mens League But without the NBA to follow my sporting focus is going towards football entirely.

When the NHL lost that one full season it came back better then ever. But i never did get into it again as a fan. I have my favorite team (Oilers, born in Edmonton) but unless they are in divisional payoff series, i don't really care any more.

If basketball loses a full season, many fans will be turned off and go else where. I know when hockey was shit down, texas hold 'em poker blew up and now there's probably more people watching that then watching hockey.

Personally I'll still watch the NBA. I said the same thing during the 99 lock out, but then the Knicks came back and went to the finals, renewing my interest quickly. All i can hope for is that we get SOME games this year and that hopefully the knicks can get it together.
 
M

MusketeerX

Rotation player
Completely understand the frustration. It makes me angry, too. I just want to watch some hoops, but the owner's are really trying to sling a lot of BS and get it to stick.

From everything I've read, the Owners are not doing as poorly as they want everyone to believe.

The player's bring in a lot of revenue. We watch and pay a ton of money to see them play... not the owners. As such they deserve a fair share of what is made. Their salaries are directly equivalent to how much money the NBA makes. I don't think that is unfair.

Moreover, a hard cap is only going to end up hurting the lower revenue players who will spend years bouncing from team to team. The non-superstars will lose out on guaranteed contracts...

As much as we think about the 16 million dollar contracts, those are rare. It seems to me that most of the players under the median salary will end up never having a home. I think that is a poor system.
 
S

Sprewell-Houston

Starter
It's pretty sad, especially the way some of these athletes behave....zero discipline, zero dedication.

It's a shame, that a whole sport is in the hands of a few millionaire ballplayers, who care more about fame, celeb status and material things than the sport itself.

The fans and the employees (at the arenas, merchandising stores etc.) are the losers in this fiasco.
 
Knickerbocker201

Knickerbocker201

Benchwarmer
Sprewell-Houston said:
It's pretty sad, especially the way some of these athletes behave....zero discipline, zero dedication.

It's a shame, that a whole sport is in the hands of a few millionaire ballplayers, who care more about fame, celeb status and material things than the sport itself.

The fans and the employees (at the arenas, merchandising stores etc.) are the losers in this fiasco.
Click to expand...

You may be right but it also goes both ways.. the owners are greedy as well and want as much money as possible....I am mad as well basketball is on hold but if I was a player and if you were a player you would want to get paid what you deserve right? The owners throw money at superstars and now they want to minimize what they get?
 
P

Paul1355

All Star
Stern is easing back on the hard cap view and just wants to make sure the money gets evened out and they can atelast get a soft cap with limits...the players are the ones sacrificing more, they got 57 percent of revenue and they offered to only get 46 to strike a new deal....so we'll see and this new month will usher in more talks or no season at all.
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
CoolClyde said:
so, another season is slowly going down the drain, no summer league, no training camp, pre-season games being phased out... slowly but surely, this season is f*cked. and for what?

so millionaire athletes can make millions more?
so people who make their (PT) living at arenas are out of work?

how many players lives are affected the way they are affecting the lives
of the folks who love basketball, and those who make their living from sales of basketball-related events? what do WE get out of this situation?

why does this happen? when someone forks over billions of dollars to own a franchise, shouldn't they have a say in how it's run, and not be forced to fork over most of their revenue to players who aren't worth half of what they're paid? what have these players done to deserve so much money, by being born tall, with skills to shoot a ball?

I'm being facetious and devil's-advocate reactionary here, but I am so pissed this is happening, I just can't partake of these forums until something happens. Why is Derek Fischer representing the entire sport of basketball anyway? who are these players, and why are they negotiating?

this sucks balls.

Crazy 8's what's up man?
Click to expand...

Hey, CoolC! All sorts of shit is up. First baby on the way, joined a Satanic sex cult. Standards and practices, my friend.

Well, you've returned in glorious form, haven't you! Great thread and so perfectly put.

Sadly, however, humans are ****ed. We, and those who are affiliated on the small scale, get diddley, as the rich get exponentially richer. There are no Robin Hood's to lean on these days.

Good to have you back, CC. Posting, toasting and roasting.
 
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
what they need to do , is assimilate some of the NFL logic into the NBA, but squeeze it a bit to make sure it is fair to some of the bigger names in the NBA

for instance


over the past few years

rashard lewish 20 million dollars
Gilbert arenas 17 million dollars
Andrei Kirilenko 17 million dollars



This MAN
eddycurry_original_display_image.jpg


11 Million dollars

in 2016 Joe Johnson 26 million dollars


I think you get the point and there are some even worse ones through out the league


There needs to be a level of play, as well as a level of production with regards to minutes and games based on injuries and surgeries etc; that relates to the amount that each player makes

I.E

joe johnsons contract by 2016 if he is producing half of what he is now, and only plays 55 games, there should be a clause that his contract will be reduced.

The knicks blew millions on eddy curry, who when signed was a prospect with nba size and ability; that didnt hold up his end of the bargain


SEE above photo.

owners shouldnt have to buy out contracts, instead they should have reinbursement for players who do not put in the work to earn their contract

if I all of a sudden stopped producing the documents needed at my job with the consistency that they hired me for, I would be demoted or fired.

I would have no one to blame but myself
 
StEpHoN_mArBuRy

StEpHoN_mArBuRy

All Star
So apparently.. David Stern is saying if significant progress isn't made tomorrow he's gonna cancel the entire season... I dunno if I should call it a bluff or not but shit is definitely getting real.
 
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
StEpHoN_mArBuRy said:
So apparently.. David Stern is saying if significant progress isn't made tomorrow he's gonna cancel the entire season... I dunno if I should call it a bluff or not but shit is definitely getting real.
Click to expand...


no i call that sterns obvious disconnect with the fans of the NBA

in a financially constricted world; fans do not want to hear that these billionaires are having difficulties coming to a conclusion; ultimately forcing stern to cancel something we invest money we barely have into.

David stern needs a PR rep more than stephon marbury with regards to his negativist approach to everything; hes such a sour puss, and he sulks into the newspaper he reads every morning over his poached eggs, wheat bagel with lox spread and givalia coffee. It pisses me off that this man is presenting only the worst information; as if he isnt partly to blame.
 
S

Sprewell-Houston

Starter
I really hope that in case the worst scenario (no 11-12 season) becomes reality, owners found a new league and we can kiss the NBA and that faggit Stern goodbye forever.

A new start is what the owners, players and especially fans need in case there will be no 11-12 season. I probably couldn't watch the NBA again, cause I'd feel prison-raped by all of them, betraying us on a whole season of basketball, when the league finally became interesting again and we have a decent roster for the first time in 10 years...
I absolutely hate politics, because the little man is always the one getting stabbed in the back, or the fans in this case.
 
CoolClyde

CoolClyde

Moderator
I blame Dolan and Eddy Curry

<<There needs to be a level of play, as well as a level of production with regards to minutes and games based on injuries and surgeries etc; that relates to the amount that each player makes >>
:agreed: the Eddy Curry rule needs to be taken into effect asap, there is no rhyme or reason a team should have to pay if a player full compensation if he cannot get himself into primo playing shape within a season.

James Dolan started this whole supermillions shenanigans years ago, paying Allan Houston $100million, who then proceeded to get hurt and not play up to his potential.

I do not agree that players should get more and more of the pot, the owners OWN the team, NOT the players. It is the owner who invested in the team and deserve to make the bulk. How it is distributed seems fair enough when BILLIONS of dollars are at stake. Come on, the concession folks are making minimum wage!! and they're OUT OF WORK!!

good post Don't Forget Derek Harper.

congrats Crazy Daddy 8's!!

Let's go David Stern, MAKE IT HAPPEN!! earn your bucks and whip these owners and players into shape! WE WANT A BASKETBALL SEASON!! PLAY BALL MOTHERF*CKERS!!
 
I

insanity4289

Benchwarmer
DontForgetDerekHarper said:
There needs to be a level of play, as well as a level of production with regards to minutes and games based on injuries and surgeries etc; that relates to the amount that each player makes

joe johnsons contract by 2016 if he is producing half of what he is now, and only plays 55 games, there should be a clause that his contract will be reduced.
Click to expand...

Please tell me how this is remotely logical.
Why would a player ever agree to this?


Why would any normal worker ever agree to this. Would you agree to your job if you had to complete a certain amount of something every day? If you didn't get your job done that day, oh well, you don't get paid.

What if you were sick with the flu for a week and you couldn't work? Or even worse, you work construction and you broke your arm over the weekend playing with your kids.

I understand what you are getting at but to make it simple the idea is just moronic.

If you want a contract to be based on performance you can have incentive-laden contracts that will give players bonuses for playing well or even just playing their average ability. But the entire contract can't be incentive based.
Unfortunately ALL NBA CONTRACTS ARE 100% GUARANTEED! so incentive-laden contracts don't exist.

Which is where the problem lies. Why are these contracts 100% guaranteed?

(You might say, well contracts in baseball are guaranteed, and it clearly works there. Well baseball doesn't have a salary cap)

This all happened due to terrible business management on the owners and Stern's part.

You need to be retarded to think that Joe Johnson deserved that contract. Yes I know the situation in Atlanta and why they did it, but if we could see what was going on so could David Stern. And a good CEO would stop that from happening.



I do agree with you though about buying out peoples contracts.

You want to know why teams are losing money? Because NBA owners are just trading around debt with bad contracts in order to obtain a roster spot. After Curry signed that contract what incentive does he have to play? If he's a lazy schmuck, why would he play? Sure everyone in NY will always hate him, but Im sure he doesn't care. Why does the league need to hold onto these dirty contracts. If players are worried about injuries and their future if they get injured, then set up a good benefits account for them once they retire.

The buying out peoples contract dilemma is equivalent to a hippie vegan community on a remote island that has a pet rabbit that eats and infects all of the communities Grain. No one wants to kill the rabbit because that would be inhumane. So instead what do they decide to do, to "fix the problem", they decide that each family will take turns looking after the rabbit for a month. For that month that family will basically starve.

<Sarcasm> But atleast the entire town isn't starving for a year! </Sarcasm>

The solution is clear. MAN UP AND KILL THE RABBIT


If I were the owners I would say to the players, here is the deal

you can
1. Keep your contracts, but they are not guaranteed
2. We trash the contracts, give you new ones that are at a lower rate, but guarantee them and keep a hard cap that regulates how much money can be spent.
or
3. Go **** yourselves and play overseas. Before you go I should let you know though, that those contracts you are getting aren't guaranteed, your living arrangements for away games will be similar to sleeping in motels, your security will be, well.... non existent, and the arenas you will be playing at will be, well...... high school gyms. See ya later.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Also say good bye to all of your expensive endorsements.
 
Last edited:
K

Kiyaman

Legend
Owners vs owners lockout

Over the course of the week, various sources with knowledge of the
talks have shared some of the concepts being discussed with
ESPN.com. Possibilities presented by the league as alternatives to a
hard cap include:

? The institution of a sliding "Supertax" that would charge teams $2 in
luxury tax for every dollar over $70 million in payroll, $3 for every
dollar over $75 million in payroll and $4 for every dollar for teams with
payrolls above $80 million

? A provision to allow each team to release one player via the so-called
"amnesty" clause and gain both salary-cap and luxury-tax relief when that
player's cap number is removed from the books

? Shortening guaranteed contracts to a maximum of three or four seasons

? Limiting Larry Bird rights -- which enable teams to exceed the salary cap
to re-sign their own free agents -- to one player per team per season

? Reducing the annual mid-level exception, which was valued at $5.8 million
last season, to roughly $3 million annually and limiting mid-level contracts to
a maximum of two or three seasons in length as opposed to the current
maximum of five seasons

? A new "Carmelo Rule" that would prevent teams -- as the New York
Knicks did in February with Anthony -- from using a Bird exception to sign or
extend a player acquired by trade unless they are acquired before July 1 of
the final season of the player's contract

? The abolition of sign-and-trades and the bi-annual exception worth $2
million

? Significant reductions in maximum salaries and annual raises and a 5
percent rollbacks on current contracts

Each of the new-rules have a hell-no concept when u break it down....example:

So far there are just four teams with a 2011-2012 payroll currently
committed to over $70 million right now and that?s the Lakers ($91.3 million),
The Magic ($74.81 million), The Spurs ($73.18 million) and Celtics ($72.47
million) ?

so the number of teams impacted by such a harsh tax system is small.
However the Players view the tax system proposed as a hard cap by
another name and that?s considered a deal breaker for their side.

To give you a sense of what that means; The Lakers $91.3 million
payroll would incur $10 million in tax for being over $70 million.
They would also incur $15 million in tax for being over $75 million and
$45.2 million for being $11.3 million over $80 million for a grand total of
$70.2 million in tax.
Add $70.2 million in tax to their $91.3 million payroll for a 2011-2012
player cost of $161.5 million.

Derik Fisher will not put his boss (Bus) into a financial crisis for building a
contender team.
And the shortening of guaranteed contracts to 3 years has to be one of
the foolish ideas on the table.....if u can only offer 3 years guaranteed to
superstar players "D.Howard, CP3, and Durant," then they are only going
to sign for 3 years at max salaries.
 
K

Kiyaman

Legend
Its all good even when its bad.....

I have not seen this lockout issue aimed towards players high salaries
as much as the full-issue been on the stoppage of superstars and star
role-players being on the same team through trade or FA market.

Its a bitter and petty lockout where cheap owners like Cleveland Cavs
want payback for losing a billion dollar asset for nothing in return to a
Miami Heat rich owner.

NBA owners got angry at Stern for allowing the 2007 offseason of the
Celtics Big-3 to be formulated. And got totally pissed in the 2007-8 season
when Stern allowed the Lakers to pull off an uneven trade for Pau Gasol.
The icing on the cake was in the 2010 offseason when owners got a large
NBA fan-base to follow their anger at Stern for allowing the "Lebron Decision"
........Lebron went "DYNASTY" with his decision.......talk about pissed.....

Damn near 90% of all NBA Fans were "PISSSED-OFF" at Lebron's decision.
And to make matters really hit a nerve......Miami-Big-3 went to the FINALS
...........and let a soft-ass Mavs team win the championship in 6 games with
the Miami Heat playing nonchalant in every 4th quarter.

Owners & Fans didnt care one bit about the Knicks giving Amare a $100M
guaranteed contract on sore knees.....when Stern allowed the Knicks to
complete an uneven trade for superstars "Melo & Billups" that was the last
straw to an already pushed button for a long-long no solution CBA lockout.
u cant stop what has already been a big part of the new age.....
Its like trying to negotiate a solution in 2006 to stop your child from texting...

remember the price of texting in 2006
 
DontForgetDerekHarper

DontForgetDerekHarper

Starter
insanity4289 said:
Please tell me how this is remotely logical.
Why would a player ever agree to this?


Why would any normal worker ever agree to this. Would you agree to your job if you had to complete a certain amount of something every day? If you didn't get your job done that day, oh well, you don't get paid.

What if you were sick with the flu for a week and you couldn't work? Or even worse, you work construction and you broke your arm over the weekend playing with your kids.

I understand what you are getting at but to make it simple the idea is just moronic.

If you want a contract to be based on performance you can have incentive-laden contracts that will give players bonuses for playing well or even just playing their average ability. But the entire contract can't be incentive based.
Unfortunately ALL NBA CONTRACTS ARE 100% GUARANTEED! so incentive-laden contracts don't exist.

Which is where the problem lies. Why are these contracts 100% guaranteed?

(You might say, well contracts in baseball are guaranteed, and it clearly works there. Well baseball doesn't have a salary cap)

This all happened due to terrible business management on the owners and Stern's part.

You need to be retarded to think that Joe Johnson deserved that contract. Yes I know the situation in Atlanta and why they did it, but if we could see what was going on so could David Stern. And a good CEO would stop that from happening.



I do agree with you though about buying out peoples contracts.

You want to know why teams are losing money? Because NBA owners are just trading around debt with bad contracts in order to obtain a roster spot. After Curry signed that contract what incentive does he have to play? If he's a lazy schmuck, why would he play? Sure everyone in NY will always hate him, but Im sure he doesn't care. Why does the league need to hold onto these dirty contracts. If players are worried about injuries and their future if they get injured, then set up a good benefits account for them once they retire.

The buying out peoples contract dilemma is equivalent to a hippie vegan community on a remote island that has a pet rabbit that eats and infects all of the communities Grain. No one wants to kill the rabbit because that would be inhumane. So instead what do they decide to do, to "fix the problem", they decide that each family will take turns looking after the rabbit for a month. For that month that family will basically starve.

<Sarcasm> But atleast the entire town isn't starving for a year! </Sarcasm>

The solution is clear. MAN UP AND KILL THE RABBIT


If I were the owners I would say to the players, here is the deal

you can
1. Keep your contracts, but they are not guaranteed
2. We trash the contracts, give you new ones that are at a lower rate, but guarantee them and keep a hard cap that regulates how much money can be spent.
or
3. Go **** yourselves and play overseas. Before you go I should let you know though, that those contracts you are getting aren't guaranteed, your living arrangements for away games will be similar to sleeping in motels, your security will be, well.... non existent, and the arenas you will be playing at will be, well...... high school gyms. See ya later.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Also say good bye to all of your expensive endorsements.
Click to expand...


45 posts huh

you do realize you are saying the same exact thing as me and I am the illogical one ?

who are you any way ?

keep your contracts but they are not guaranteed

didnt I specifically detail the exact same statement you moronic fool

dont ever jump on here with out even a rep point and state my post is illogical, and then complete your response with a consolidated version of my whole post; it makes you look assinine.
 
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