Where do u stand on the NBA Lockout issues

Kiyaman

Legend
Owners hiring dum GM's is 70% of the problem

I disagree, look at the current champions - the Mavs, in the 90s they have never had a winning record, but in the first season with Nowitzki on the roster and Cuban as their owner, they have reached a record of .646 and haven't fallen under .610 in ten consecutive seasons. Or look at the Cavs with LeBron, why wouldn't the Clippers go the same way to the top with Griffin?

I'm not sure on what u disagree on......all the hatred on the Heat (esp.
Lebron) sold-out 90% of the away-game arenas they played in.
No NBA team came close to the high ratings of a Heats game lastseason.
Hatred in sports has always sold billions in ratings.
Between u and me.....Lebron & Wade "outstanding" 4th quarter performance
the past 8 seasons is why the two reached the $50M endorsements per year.
Did u notice the change in their performance in the 4th qtr. of the Finals?
Pat Riley is still a genious in the NBA!

The Dallas Mavs previous owner before Cuban was an idiot who hired
management dummer than him. Do u think Mark Cuban wouldve traded
a young superstar Jason Kidd averaging 14 assist per game?

The Cavs silly management let Boozer slip out of their hands.
I would not condemn a young superstar Blake Griffin to the NBA #1 cheapest
owner with a stupid GM for the majority of Griffin NBA career.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
In your previous post you claimed some young talents won't be able to leave the teams that have drafted them, becasue due to the hard cap no one could pay them enough $$$ (probably you meant the large market organizations). I agree that is not going to be easy to join a team that already has some max contracts on their roster, but I disagree those talented kids should even leave their teams. I mean all those quitters, rats or whatever we name them (LeBron, Bosh, Carmelo, Amare etc.) were not able to bring their teams a chip, so they decided to leave... Do you see Ewing leaving becasue the Knicks didn't get him a ring?
 

Kiyaman

Legend
A season to support college Basketball

Who do u blame for the Knicks decade of losing-streak?

That is why I can not take the owners side in this CBA negotiation.
Owner James Dolan was not the only idiot hiring these foolish GM's
to run his franchise.

I would not be suprise if (owner) Dolan was a strong supporter of a hardcap
with a super luxury tax included, wanting the players to get 47% of the BRI.
incompetence is not something u lose over night.
Whomever adviced Dolan on hiring the Knicks past 3 GM's (Dum, Dummer,
and Dummy) had to be the same advisor to alot these other owners who lost
money consistently through their GM's silly decision-making. LOL
 

Kiyaman

Legend
In your previous post you claimed some young talents won't be able to leave the teams that have drafted them, becasue due to the hard cap no one could pay them enough $$$ (probably you meant the large market organizations). I agree that is not going to be easy to join a team that already has some max contracts on their roster, but I disagree those talented kids should even leave their teams. I mean all those quitters, rats or whatever we name them (LeBron, Bosh, Carmelo, Amare etc.) were not able to bring their teams a chip, so they decided to leave... Do you see Ewing leaving becasue the Knicks didn't get him a ring?

Do u know the reason why Ewing demanded to be traded?
Do u know the reason why coach JVG quit during the season?
Do u know the reason why Pat Riley quit the Knicks?

There are way to many poor manage teams in the NBA with
poor coaching-staffs, and the Knicks has been one of those
teams for the past decade.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
I know that Dolan was the reason why Ewing demanded to be traded, I know he was also the reason why Van Gundy decided to quit, but despite all those negative things that happened around the Knicks and were caused by Dolan's decisions he's definately one of the owners who want a deal, probably even on players' terms:

"You can look at it and say the majority of owners don't want a deal," Mason told The Post yesterday from his Los Angeles home. "But there are owners eager to get a deal done. At this moment they are overshadowed by a contingent of owners who are trying to get everything they want in a new CBA." Asked if Dolan is one of the owners in the minority, Mason said: "Definitely. You feel excitement in the city. I know Dolan sees that, hears that. He's definitely one of the owners who's ready to get back to work.
"There are a committee of owners, and their voice is going to be as one. But you know [Dolan] has put a lot into renovating the Garden and put a lot into the team. He had a lot of tough years and there's a lot of promise now. He wants to get back out there."


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/jim_dandy_u61PAJQxQdV85a1bOMaVwJ
 

DaTPRiNCE

The Knicks are Back
Both are greedy, and as this process has shown care for themselves so i dont support one or the other. Basically owners are complaining players are making too much money and they're all losing money by the millions and the players have too high of a split in the BRI. Players know that players such as mikey moore shouldn't be making 5+ mill. and that they have a the good side in previous deals. so they are being greedy in not wanting to relinquish that and making a 3% drop in the BRI is a huge concession on their end. so i say both sides have no ones but to blame but themselves for their mindset. simple as that. So STFU get on that negotiating table- i dont care if it kills them- and get a deal done. Its not about the players or the owners if you ask me. its about US the fans. so get the deal done for the sake of not losing those fans or damaging the reputation of the league by giving it the image as the league that goes into lockout mode every few years.
Players your already losers in the deal and the more you wait and bitch around the worse of a deal your going to get. so best thing for you is hammer it out tomorrow and cut your losses early before your looking at a 57/43 split in the owners favor.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Both are greedy, and as this process has shown care for themselves so i dont support one or the other. Basically owners are complaining players are making too much money and they're all losing money by the millions and the players have too high of a split in the BRI. Players know that players such as mikey moore shouldn't be making 5+ mill. and that they have a the good side in previous deals. so they are being greedy in not wanting to relinquish that and making a 3% drop in the BRI is a huge concession on their end. so i say both sides have no ones but to blame but themselves for their mindset. simple as that. So STFU get on that negotiating table- i dont care if it kills them- and get a deal done. Its not about the players or the owners if you ask me. its about US the fans. so get the deal done for the sake of not losing those fans or damaging the reputation of the league by giving it the image as the league that goes into lockout mode every few years.
Players your already losers in the deal and the more you wait and bitch around the worse of a deal your going to get. so best thing for you is hammer it out tomorrow and cut your losses early before your looking at a 57/43 split in the owners favor.


:agreed::agreed::agreed:

u right! at the end of the day no money $$$ made

Just got in from work....waiting to here what little
they have to say about today CBA negotiation....11-10-11
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Netherlands, among all those towns some NY boroughs and neighborhoods are named after. ;)


Sounds to chilly for me.........do u think the players will agree to the
owners proposal this weekend to end the lockout? we are talking the
next 10 years of the owners proposal.

There are certain owners that Im sure does not want any part of this
"ludacris" new super luxury tax in the proposal......Cuban, Buss, Allan,
Heisley, Arison, Reinsdorf, Dolan. Especially the part of being over the
cap 3 times in 5 seasons.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
I think the players don't have much choice now, the league made a very good and well-thought move making little concessions on some system issues and announcing there is still a chance for almost a full regular season. It's like being 2 points down with just 0.4 second left, you can fire for the win from downtown and possibly lose the game or throw it somewhere near the basket, let someone tip it in and go into overtime... That's the choice the players have, they can reject the revised offer, petition for decertification, lose an entire season and maybe get a better deal or they can accept the offer, start making money and start fighting for a more comfortable CBA after 6-7 years... But still nothing is going to happen this weekend, the union will call a reps meeting Monday or Tuesday.

edit: remember that game? I was absolutely hopeless but went bananas before realized Amare didn't hit that three in time...

 
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Kiyaman

Legend
Decertification

As soon as u mention Amare shooting a 3-ball my memory focus back to that game quicker than pushing the u-tube button. I recall myself complaining about the Knicks formation play to bring the ball in vs a good defensive team with less than a second remaining....Amare direction was suppose to be headed toward the paint for an Alley-oop while screening/picking off our guard defender. Poor coaching....Amare is not Dirk or Gallo to take a catch/shoot shot.

All the owners/and Stern that has been crying about losing money need
to know....The New York Times recently reported that a record 160 players
were on minimum contracts last season, with 107 players on rookie contracts
and 63 on midlevel exception deals. That left between 90 and 100 players on
actually negotiated contracts not bound by a salary slot.

Why is everyone leaving out the "AGENTS" opinion of the owners proposals?
Players always look towards their agents for advice on practically everything
involving the NBA.

In addition to the seven major agencies that have been clamoring for decertification for months, several other previously moderate agencies have joined the movement, sources told CBSSports.com. "They've lost me," said one of the previously moderate agents. "Three months ago, we thought this would be done. We thought people would be reasonable."

Agents became suprise at the owners unfairness in these negotiations why?

union officials and agents were disappointed that the league did not address the so-called tax cliff, by which teams are double-penalized for barely wading above the tax line, and they disagree with the league's position that mid-level restrictions would be in place if the signing pushed the team's payroll above the tax. The players want teams to be able to use the exception as long as they are under the tax line before the signing occurs. "We'll try in court, because it can't get worse than this," one of the formerly moderate agents said. "... The owners are selling players short on their intelligence, and they're definitely selling their representatives short."

This new "super luxury tax" will hurt the players/agents/big-market team fans
who expect a MLE FA and draft pick each season to be added to the roster.
The league has media focusing fans full attention on the BRI % split when the
players and agents are more focus on being double-penalized by a system
with a super luxury tax.

The 30 team player representatives will come to New York on Monday to determine if they’ll recommend the deal to the rank-and-file or reject it. The union leadership left the negotiations late Thursday night objecting to several “system issues,” including one that would prohibit teams that exceed the luxury tax from using a full mid-level exception to sign a free agent. They would have only a part of the exception. “That’s a huge concern. It’s going to restrict movement,” said one member of the NBA Players Association’s bargaining team.

This would lead to many FA that belong in the NBA going overseas for a job.
While D.League players with half their talent replace them in the NBA.
What does this do to the growth of competitiveness in the NBA in 5 years?

"People are questioning the agents' agenda," said Duffy, whose firm represents the Cavs' Baron Davis and Ryan Hollins. "Our interests are aligned strictly with the players. Our job is to protect the players. Our job is to get them paid. "This is no different than the CEO of a company having his lawyer do his contract. I'm sure when David Stern does his contract, he has another set of eyes look over it. Every other professional coach has an agent. General managers have agents. Everyone has someone to serve their business interests. In most of those cases, most of those professionals are trained negotiators and/or lawyers. In this case, these are athletes who, in some cases, haven't even completed their education because of the gift they have. The fact that they're young and inexperienced. . . . They need a savvy negotiator to protect their interests."

"The agents represent a threat to the control of the owner and the team," said Termini, who has represented many of the top players from Ohio, including Jim Jackson, Brad Sellers, Earl Boykins and Kosta Koufos. "They want to just deal with the player. They're going to tell him what to do, where to go, when he's hurt, when he's not hurt, what doctor to go to, what's a good deal, what's a bad deal, when he's traded, what time to report.
"The agent gets involved in all of those decisions on behalf of the player and it's burdensome to the team. They don't like it. They'd like to eliminate that. So in these negotiations, as the options for the players become fewer and fewer, it has the hand-in-glove effect of reducing the role of the agent." When Duffy was asked if he and the other members of the Super Seven agreed with that assessment, he said emphatically, "Without question."

Is the owner and league new proposal really for a system that takes leverage away from players agents? or is the agents dissatisfied with the deal the union has negotiated and the intransigence of league negotiators already have more than 200 signatures on decertification petitions which are ready to be submitted to the National Labor Relations Board requesting a vote to dissolve the union, and the 2011-12 season?

While the NBA declined to comment for this story, it would appear that the statistics bear out the opinions of these agents. The New York Times recently reported that a record 160 players were on minimum contracts last season, with 107 players on rookie contracts and 63 on midlevel exception deals. That left between 90 and 100 players on actually negotiated contracts not bound by a salary slot. "The league wants to have, as much as possible, a menu of salaries where the agent's ability to negotiate is minimal,"

u can not leave out the "opinion/tactics" of the players agent in this CBA negotiation...
 
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