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Thread: Talks finally going the right direction...

  1. #31
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    There's also the fact that there's much more at stake than simply basketball-related revenue.

    When LeBron James joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, I predicted that the CBA was going to run into problems because of the forming of superteams that would leave the small-market teams (Jordan's Bobcats, Paul Allen's TrailBlazers, and so on.) in jeopardy because, simply, there's no way they can draw the Melo/Amar'e teamups or the Wade/LeBron/Bosh trio.

    The hard-line owners want to keep the league competitive and their franchises afloat. Life is great for us Knicks fans because like it or not our franchise is never going to have to face the possibility of contraction, but the owners of small-market teams are fighting so hard on this CBA because they don't want to imagine the possibility of the NBA season essentially being a LA vs. NY vs. Miami year-long battle with the other teams just losing for the hell of it. They're fighting the battle on BRI because they know that if they give the players an even larger portion of the BRI then their franchises are going to collapse due to lack of competition.

  2. #32
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    From the very same article:

    Is the owners’ offer fair? Not really.

    Should the players take it? Yes.

    Will the owners give in and up the ante? Very unlikely.

    Will the players be rational and take what is on the plate? We can only hope so.

  3. #33
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    Funny how optimism gets shot down so quick.

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by Dzwonsson
    The players would be just a bunch of knuckleheads if they didn't the accept the league's proposal. They seem to be stuck in a kind of unreal world they've imagined themselves where they'd get their 51% (or even 57%!) plus tons of concessions that would allow them to make more and more big bucks, so they could wipe their asses with $100,000 bills. How the **** dare they say they feel sorry for arena workers, vendors and another people whose lives are affected by this lockout? They don't give a **** about those people and they don't give a **** about us, the fans. Every time I see Fisher or Hunter speaking I see those dollar signs in their eyes. I apologize for my language, but these greedy bitches make me sick...

    Your language is excused....Im hungry for some NBA-ballin toooo. however

    Im sure all the NBA veteran-players know the 50-50 split will do more
    harm than good to the NBA competitiveness within the next 5 seasons.
    The NBA competitiveness was very low for two seasons (2007-9), and
    was picked up to its highest level of competitiveness in the millenium in
    the 2010-11 season. I am looking for these young-players (draft picks
    from the last 4 years) to have a big-reason $$$ to perform hungry to
    stop the Miami Big-3 from having a 50+ win season the next 5 years.
    That will not happen with a 50-50 split with a hardcap and a super-luxury tax.

    The ratio of the previous BRI 57% may have been 3% to high. however
    There is no excuse for "owners" (GM) to give out contracts that are twice the
    worth of a players performance/or to trade for players (Arenas, Peja) that has
    consistently showed they're only worth 25% of their high
    contract worth.

    Some players are worth every penny of their salary! not all.
    We do have players like Landry Fields who rookie performance was worth
    $2M or $3M lastseason (underpaid at $800).
    We do have veteran FA (Miami Big-3) that will be worth all 6 years of their
    contracts....
    This is a sport.....where owners have to invest in veteran players or an
    ex-player Patrick Ewing to train D.Howard into a superstar to sell out stadiums.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    There's also the fact that there's much more at stake than simply basketball-related revenue.

    When LeBron James joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, I predicted that the CBA was going to run into problems because of the forming of superteams that would leave the small-market teams (Jordan's Bobcats, Paul Allen's TrailBlazers, and so on.) in jeopardy because, simply, there's no way they can draw the Melo/Amar'e teamups or the Wade/LeBron/Bosh trio.

    The hard-line owners want to keep the league competitive and their franchises afloat. Life is great for us Knicks fans because like it or not our franchise is never going to have to face the possibility of contraction, but the owners of small-market teams are fighting so hard on this CBA because they don't want to imagine the possibility of the NBA season essentially being a LA vs. NY vs. Miami year-long battle with the other teams just losing for the hell of it. They're fighting the battle on BRI because they know that if they give the players an even larger portion of the BRI then their franchises are going to collapse due to lack of competition.
    Very good point....but OKC, Bulls, Grizzlies, Blazers, and Hawks proved small-
    market teams could be competitive with a change of revenue, or change in
    headcoach/or GM to have the franchise on the same-page.
    It is true about the small-market Cleveland Cavs grossing big-market $$$ the
    past 7 years having Lebron James jersey for twice the price of Kobe Jersey.
    Its also true about the CBA negotiation being ended early this summer if
    Lebron wouldve resign with the Cavs, or the Cavs woulded traded Lebron to Miami.
    We all witness the hostile Cavs owner after the Lebron-Decision.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    There's also the fact that there's much more at stake than simply basketball-related revenue.

    When LeBron James joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, I predicted that the CBA was going to run into problems because of the forming of superteams that would leave the small-market teams (Jordan's Bobcats, Paul Allen's TrailBlazers, and so on.) in jeopardy because, simply, there's no way they can draw the Melo/Amar'e teamups or the Wade/LeBron/Bosh trio.

    The hard-line owners want to keep the league competitive and their franchises afloat. Life is great for us Knicks fans because like it or not our franchise is never going to have to face the possibility of contraction, but the owners of small-market teams are fighting so hard on this CBA because they don't want to imagine the possibility of the NBA season essentially being a LA vs. NY vs. Miami year-long battle with the other teams just losing for the hell of it. They're fighting the battle on BRI because they know that if they give the players an even larger portion of the BRI then their franchises are going to collapse due to lack of competition.
    You know, I read an interesting article that the owners may be doing the exact opposite with all of their limitations. The idea being that they are limiting the choices where a player can go, so that the players are going to try and flock to the large market areas for better sponsorship deals, and then try to get Larry bird rights with those teams (as I don't believe the CBA is affecting that particular exception).

  7. #37
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    Stern and the owners have proceeded with the ultimatum approach. This is far from negotiating in good faith and essentially puts the responsibility of losing more games in the players' hands. It doesn't appear that the players will accept the latest deal and it only gets worse from there with Stern threatening to counter with a more unfavorable deal.

    I was optimistic before but I don't have any faith of an NBA season at this point. If decertification happens then not only will this season be lost but there's no guarantee about next season either. I wish some multi billionaires would step in and suggest a new and improved league. To hell with the NBA.

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Stern and the owners have proceeded with the ultimatum approach. This is far from negotiating in good faith and essentially puts the responsibility of losing more games in the players' hands. It doesn't appear that the players will accept the latest deal and it only gets worse from there with Stern threatening to counter with a more unfavorable deal.

    I was optimistic before but I don't have any faith of an NBA season at this point. If decertification happens then not only will this season be lost but there's no guarantee about next season either. I wish some multi billionaires would step in and suggest a new and improved league. To hell with the NBA.
    the owners have had the leverage since day 1, the union has to cave or they will lose the season. From a PR standpoint, the players will take the bigger hit from the fans becaus everyone knows the NBA has the leverage but the players union just keeps rejecting deals. We know Stern is a lier and Fisher has made this known, but its besides the point because he has the leverage and all the power. Decertifying brings out the guns but doesn't assure a victory for the players. They can still lose the season AND lose the battle, and the fans will hate them even more for waisting our time.
    This is american business, the employers rule, not the enployeees unless they all go on a strike, which is not the case. Kobe Bryant is willing to accept 50-50 and others are too, they just want to play. It;s like Hunter is trying to fight against the inevitable.

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    the owners have had the leverage since day 1, the union has to cave or they will lose the season. From a PR standpoint, the players will take the bigger hit from the fans becaus everyone knows the NBA has the leverage but the players union just keeps rejecting deals. We know Stern is a lier and Fisher has made this known, but its besides the point because he has the leverage and all the power. Decertifying brings out the guns but doesn't assure a victory for the players. They can still lose the season AND lose the battle, and the fans will hate them even more for waisting our time.
    This is american business, the employers rule, not the enployeees unless they all go on a strike, which is not the case. Kobe Bryant is willing to accept 50-50 and others are too, they just want to play. It;s like Hunter is trying to fight against the inevitable.

    I can't tell you how much I hate the ****ing players union right now! To hell with Billy ******* Hunter and Derek the self proclaimed boss Fisher!

    50-50 is a fair deal, they still get absurd paychecks for playing some damn basketball, others do this in their free time besides going to work from 9-5 for ****s sake!

    Accept the deal you greedy bastards!

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    the owners have had the leverage since day 1, the union has to cave or they will lose the season. From a PR standpoint, the players will take the bigger hit from the fans becaus everyone knows the NBA has the leverage but the players union just keeps rejecting deals. We know Stern is a lier and Fisher has made this known, but its besides the point because he has the leverage and all the power. Decertifying brings out the guns but doesn't assure a victory for the players. They can still lose the season AND lose the battle, and the fans will hate them even more for waisting our time.
    This is american business, the employers rule, not the enployeees unless they all go on a strike, which is not the case. Kobe Bryant is willing to accept 50-50 and others are too, they just want to play. It;s like Hunter is trying to fight against the inevitable.
    The union has gone down from 57% to now 51% and it still wasn't enough for the owners. They've been hard set on 50/50 from the start and have done no negotiating on that issue.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    The union has gone down from 57% to now 51% and it still wasn't enough for the owners. They've been hard set on 50/50 from the start and have done no negotiating on that issue.
    the players do not have to accept it. as all other employees in other industries, they can take their skills elsewhere.

    the players have many options..greece..turkey..israel.. spain... or even china..

    they do not have to accept the last offer from those greedy bastards (the owners)...

  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    The union has gone down from 57% to now 51% and it still wasn't enough for the owners. They've been hard set on 50/50 from the start and have done no negotiating on that issue.
    the union has sacrificed more, i know, but it's because they do not have leverage. They never had leverage. The only leverage they had was saying that they will go play in Europe, problem is they won't get nearly the same salary that the new Owners deal proposes, so that is pointless.
    Then the last attempt is to decertify. The players might win but they lose a whole season, fans will dislike them for years to come for being greedy, and it will be even more tragic since the NBA had such a successful season.
    The union can also LOSE the battle in court and all of this is pointless. And guess what? Hunter will be fired and Fisher is retiring anyway so the only people that will suffer for all of this is the fans. Hunter and Fisher just sail into the clouds into retirement while we suffered a whole season for no reason! It's pointless!
    the video clip I saw of the head members of the union that were NBA players were Eaton Thomas, Maurice Evans, Roger Mason, Derek Fisher....none of these guys are big time players so I don't see how their opinion can be for the entire body of players.

    I hope the players realize they have no leverage and saving a season is more important than anything right now. Do it for the fans!

  13. #43
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    Decertification is going to happen.

    As recent headlines have shown, this was a likelihood since long before the lockout even began.

    How unfortunate we are to be fans of a group of owners and players that are completely devoid of any sort of benevolent behaviour.

    We created the demigods though, so we shouldn't be surprised about their greed in the slightest.

    GAME OVER

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    the union has sacrificed more, i know, but it's because they do not have leverage. They never had leverage. The only leverage they had was saying that they will go play in Europe, problem is they won't get nearly the same salary that the new Owners deal proposes, so that is pointless.
    Then the last attempt is to decertify. The players might win but they lose a whole season, fans will dislike them for years to come for being greedy, and it will be even more tragic since the NBA had such a successful season.
    The union can also LOSE the battle in court and all of this is pointless. And guess what? Hunter will be fired and Fisher is retiring anyway so the only people that will suffer for all of this is the fans. Hunter and Fisher just sail into the clouds into retirement while we suffered a whole season for no reason! It's pointless!
    the video clip I saw of the head members of the union that were NBA players were Eaton Thomas, Maurice Evans, Roger Mason, Derek Fisher....none of these guys are big time players so I don't see how their opinion can be for the entire body of players.

    I hope the players realize they have no leverage and saving a season is more important than anything right now. Do it for the fans!
    When fans get angry at players for being greedy and stop supporting the
    players....the owners net worth will "DECREASE" along with the worth of his
    team franchise. If his franchise is worth $325M today....after a no season
    and small fan base the following season the owner will be lucky if his team
    franchise is worth above $225M.

    The leverage has always been on the players side in every sport.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    If his franchise is worth $325M today....after a no season and small fan base the following season the owner will be lucky if his team franchise is worth above $225M.
    The leverage has always been on the players side in every sport.
    if there is no season, the worth of a franchise mite ..repeat mite decline... but by 1/3.... i highly doubt it...

    and not so sure the players have the leverage as they have in the past...

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