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Thread: To All the Naysayers...

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Thumbs up To All the Naysayers...

    To all the people who doubted our game plan to get the Big 3 of Amare, Melo and another max contract such as Howard or CP3 I have good news! The Knicks are projected to have the MOST cap room in 2012 of any team and right around 20 mil! Combine that with what is most certainly going to be a lower max contract and we will have room to sign a max and possibly a solid role player.

    This will undoubtedly lead to a mid season trade for either CP3 or D12 as the Magic and NO won't want to lose their stars for nothing.

    Economic projections from sources say the salary cap will then grow to about $60-$61 million in 2012, when the Knicks will have the largest cap space in the league and have room to woo either Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard, who are slated to become free agents. The Knicks could be at least $20 million under the projected 2012 cap.

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    Last edited by TR1LL10N; Nov 01, 2011 at 11:39.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    The new CBA (whenever itís agreed upon) will also clear more cap space for the Knicks in 2012 because of the agreed-upon amnesty clause.
    Knicks interim general manager Glen Grunwald is expected to use the clause on Nuggets throw-in Renaldo Balkman, whom he once drafted. Balkman is to make $1.7M in 2012 and is not in Knicks coach Mike DíAntoniís plans.
    When Balkman, a former first-round pick in the Isiah Thomas Era, is sliced, his $1.7M salary wonít count toward the cap under the new provision.
    Without Balkman taking up 2012 cap room, the Knicks may have only three players under a guaranteed contract after this season: Anthony ($19.4M ), Stoudemire (19.9), rookie Iman Shumpert (projected $1.4M).
    Toney Douglas has a team option for $2.06M and may not be re-signed if Shumpert excels. If the Knicks donít exercise the Douglas option, they could be at $40.3M entering that summer -- possibly $20-$21M million in cap space.
    Yahoo! has reported the NBA and players a


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    Some more good news for the Knicks salary cap in 2012.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    I think the debate (if the cap went up or remained) was more of...

    -CP3 or...
    -D12 or...
    -D Williams or...
    -Adding pieces around the two stars we already have

    Not if it were possible, but what was the best option.

    I'm going for D12, but won't complain about CP3, D Williams, or a solid big + viable role player options. Its win win for us.

    Thanks Donnie.

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    Member NYallDay's Avatar
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    Agreed! No matter who we get, out of the superstar free-agents, it catapults us from playoff/threat to legit shot at the trophy.
    although my preference would be D12>CP3>DWill , oh + NEW COACH



    Originally Posted by Red
    I think the debate (if the cap went up or remained) was more of...

    -CP3 or...
    -D12 or...
    -D Williams or...
    -Adding pieces around the two stars we already have

    Not if it were possible, but what was the best option.

    I'm going for D12, but won't complain about CP3, D Williams, or a solid big + viable role player options. Its win win for us.

    Thanks Donnie.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I think the debate (if the cap went up or remained) was more of...

    -CP3 or...
    -D12 or...
    -D Williams or...
    -Adding pieces around the two stars we already have

    Not if it were possible, but what was the best option.

    I'm going for D12, but won't complain about CP3, D Williams, or a solid big + viable role player options. Its win win for us.

    Thanks Donnie.
    No, there are a few on the forum who've doubted the likelihood that we could sign another max. I won't mention names, but they're on here and they're not newbs.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    No, there are a few on the forum who've doubted the likelihood that we could sign another max. I won't mention names, but they're on here and they're not newbs.
    I seem to remember a fan that sick play that Larry Johnson made against the Pacers, that was worth 4 points, emphatically swearing that acquiring Melo would cripple the Knicks.

    Now....I'm not saying....but I'm just saying...

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I seem to remember a fan that sick play that Larry Johnson made against the Pacers, that was worth 4 points, emphatically swearing that acquiring Melo would cripple the Knicks.

    Now....I'm not saying....but I'm just saying...
    Lol.

    But let's get a season first.

    Speaking of, I have a question...

    Would winning a chip in a season with an * matter?

    I'd say yes it would detract.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Lol.

    But let's get a season first.

    Speaking of, I have a question...

    Would winning a chip in a season with an * matter?

    I'd say yes it would detract.
    Yea, it definitely would in my opinion.

    But I wouldn't even care...if we get Dwight, the league would go from the NBA, to the NKA.

    Donnie Walsh was planning his strategy against his next opponent, while GMs were trying to figure out if moving that pawn would put them in checkmate.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    The numbers really haven't changed much. The increase from a $58 mil cap to a $60-61 mil cap and the amnesty clause are certainly nice, and unexpected, benefits of the new CBA. But these sports writers, and everybody else, always forget the minimum roster cap-hold. I have not heard anything about this being removed.

    Say the cap grows to $61 mil. If the Knicks do not pick up Douglas they will have $40.8 mil locked up in 3 players (Amare, Melo, and Shumpert). Add in the minimum 12 roster cap hold of approximately $4,050,000 ($450,000 * 9) and the Knicks will have a team salary of $44.85 mil.

    That leaves $16.15 mil in cap space to sign a 3rd max and $4 mil to fill the remaining 8 roster spots. I personally don't think that is enough to be able to beat Miami or Chicago and truly compete. I'll believe it when I see it.

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    Default A Naysayer

    I was very much a naysayer and although now I see some possibilities, I remain skeptical. and, by the way, I think Berman is an idiot and pay little attention to anything he writes.

    LJ4ptplay's comments are, as usual, accurate. There is also another problem. If we go into 2012 with only Amare', Melo and Shumpert on the payroll, it means that during 2011-12 -- if there is a season -- we will have signed the rest of the team to one year contracts. Will Shawne Williams sign a one year deal? And what are we supposed to do with Landry Fields? Are we going to let him go in 2012? Would we trade him for a 2013 first round pick?

    Perhaps we will have a mid-level exception in 2012 to be used on a decent player and to the extent there are also veteran minimum contracts that do not count against the cap, perhaps we can get a number of decent role players. Perhaps also some of the players released under the amnesty will play for the Knicks for short money. I do not thimk Dolan will be unwilling to get into luxury tax numbers.

    I acknowledge there is a chance for a big three. I would be happy to eat crow. And I would prefer Howard over any of the others.

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    BALL DON'T LIE MeloforMayor's Avatar
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    Wow. Can you imagine having the BEST C in the game today playing with the arguably the most skilled offensive player? Gives me chills. Oh, we also have Amar'e? Now that's what I call a BIIIIIIIIG three (no homo)

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    The numbers really haven't changed much. The increase from a $58 mil cap to a $60-61 mil cap and the amnesty clause are certainly nice, and unexpected, benefits of the new CBA. But these sports writers, and everybody else, always forget the minimum roster cap-hold. I have not heard anything about this being removed.

    Say the cap grows to $61 mil. If the Knicks do not pick up Douglas they will have $40.8 mil locked up in 3 players (Amare, Melo, and Shumpert). Add in the minimum 12 roster cap hold of approximately $4,050,000 ($450,000 * 9) and the Knicks will have a team salary of $44.85 mil.

    That leaves $16.15 mil in cap space to sign a 3rd max and $4 mil to fill the remaining 8 roster spots. I personally don't think that is enough to be able to beat Miami or Chicago and truly compete. I'll believe it when I see it.
    LJ, you have to remember that under the next CBA the max contract is sure to go down which will give us a few more million to work with. Add in whatever exceptions are left under the new contract and S&T possibilities and the future is bright!

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    LJ, you have to remember that under the next CBA the max contract is sure to go down which will give us a few more million to work with. Add in whatever exceptions are left under the new contract and S&T possibilities and the future is bright!
    I agree that things are looking a little better. But unless the exception rules have changed, exceptions (e.g. MLE) are for teams that are at, or above the cap. If we are below the cap, the only money to spend during free agency is the team salary below the cap, unless you are referring to some other exceptions that I am unaware of, or I misunderstand your post.

    Under the previous CBA, max contracts were 30% of the cap. If this percentage drops to 28% (I haven't heard any proposed numbers, have you?) and the cap is $61 mil, a max contract is $17.08 mil, still above what we are permitted to spend. A max player may take a pay cut his first year. That would be the only way we could afford a 3rd max.

    But, as Oldtimer has pointed out, there are other problems that arise if we go the 3rd max route. And, as I pointed out earlier, this also goes under the assumption that it only takes 3 super stars and 9 minimum salary players to win a championship. I disagree with this concept and believe we should build as solid a TEAM as possible with our current assets and potential cap space.

    Also, sign-and-trades typically require tradeable assets. What S&T possibilities are you referring to?

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I agree that things are looking a little better. But unless the exception rules have changed, exceptions (e.g. MLE) are for teams that are at, or above the cap. If we are below the cap, the only money to spend during free agency is the team salary below the cap, unless you are referring to some other exceptions that I am unaware of, or I misunderstand your post.

    Under the previous CBA, max contracts were 30% of the cap. If this percentage drops to 28% (I haven't heard any proposed numbers, have you?) and the cap is $61 mil, a max contract is $17.08 mil, still above what we are permitted to spend. A max player may take a pay cut his first year. That would be the only way we could afford a 3rd max.

    But, as Oldtimer has pointed out, there are other problems that arise if we go the 3rd max route. And, as I pointed out earlier, this also goes under the assumption that it only takes 3 super stars and 9 minimum salary players to win a championship. I disagree with this concept and believe we should build as solid a TEAM as possible with our current assets and potential cap space.

    Also, sign-and-trades typically require tradeable assets. What S&T possibilities are you referring to?
    The exceptions kick in once we have spent our money in FA or via trade. I have not hear anything about new max numbers but have to assume they will be less.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    The exceptions kick in once we have spent our money in FA or via trade. I have not hear anything about new max numbers but have to assume they will be less.
    I'm not sure what you are saying. I assume you are referring to veteran's minimum exceptions and after free agency has ended (i.e. 2013 free agency). A team that is under the cap during free agency cannot exceed the cap. That's the point of a cap. A team cannot spend all of its cap space and then use the MLE to add other players during the same free agent period. That team would have to wait until the following year's free agency period to use the MLE.

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