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Thread: Hunt For The Right Center - Good Article

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Default Hunt For The Right Center - Good Article

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    A long, informative read.

    Here are some snippets.

    Dalembert is not the right fit in NY.

    One name which has generated considerable buzz in New York has been Samuel Dalembert.

    At this stage of the game, you know what you are going to get with Sam. Last season in Sacramento, Dalembert averaged 8.1 points and 8.2 rebounds per game. For his career, he has averaged 8.1 points and 8.3 boards. Considering the dearth of quality centers in today’s NBA (and currently on the Knicks roster), those numbers are obviously nothing to sneeze at.

    Still, Dalembert doesn’t quite fit New York’s needs. In the past, he’s been a guy that gripes if he doesn’t get enough shots. The Knicks obviously don’t need to add a scorer; they already have that end of the court covered. Ideally, they would add a bruiser that would board and protect the tin. A defensive-minded center willing to set screens and do the little things– this is a prescription for what ails New York down low. Dalembert just isn’t that player.

    Dalembert isn’t a guy looking to mix it up inside or intimidate in the paint. He’s far too comfortable floating around the perimeter, settling for long jumpers. Take a look at these stats: Per Hoopdata.com, last season Dalembert attempted just 2.9 shots “at the rim” per game. In contrast, he averaged 2.7 field-goal attempts from 10-23 feet away from the basket. Not exactly the shot selection you prefer from a seven-footer. Also, consider this: The Philadelphia 76ers won 27 games in 2009-2010 with Dalembert as their starting center. After trading him in the summer of 2010, Philly won 41 games without him in 2010-2011.



    Robin Lopez

    During Stoudemire’s last season in Phoenix, Lopez and Amar’e developed a solid chemistry and worked well together. Lopez is not a guy you will run plays for but he is a big body that is content doing the dirty work. He’s not a great athlete, but he will bang, board, and hustle. Lopez would be a great fit alongside Melo and Stoudemire on an NY front line. Better yet, it shouldn’t be too difficult to pry him from Phoenix.

    With Suns’ owner Robert Sarver’s financial difficulties, it is not inconceivable to assume Phoenix may be looking to lighten future salary commitments – especially commitments to players that don’t regularly contribute.

    Lopez was buried on Phoenix’s bench last season. In the 27 post-All-Star break games he played in, Lopez averaged just 4.6 points and 2.4 boards in 11 minutes of action.

    Robin experienced his best success as pro when he was teamed up alongside Amar’e. Lopez started 31 games at center (with Stoudemire as his PF) in 2009-2010. In those 31 contests, Lopez averaged 11.3 points and 6.2 boards, while shooting 59.7% from the floor and over 74% from the free-throw line.

    As far as what the Knicks could offer Phoenix, the key part to any deal might be the cash James Dolan could send to Sarver (assuming that is still allowed under the new CBA). How about Bill Walker (Phoenix will likely be losing starting SG Vince Carter) and cash to the Suns in exchange for Lopez? It might make sense for both teams.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would like to have Lopez on board.

    My concern about a trade with Phoenix for Lopez is that they'll go tooth and nail after Shumpert.

    They showed a lot of interest in him with their 13th pick last year - as you can see here [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - and that would be a big blow to us, as we move toward becoming a more defensively inclined team.

    So it would be preferable not to trade, unless it's a trade as nice as the proposed one for Lopez, but options are limited and unappealing.

    I doubt that Jordan or Jorts will have any real impact. Jorts has been talking big and knows what's expected of him, but whether he has any genuine capability will be the big question.
    Last edited by rady; Nov 27, 2011 at 15:00.

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    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
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    And what about Gortat (also Phoenix), he averaged 9.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks and 13 points since the trade from Orlando, he's a very good screener and drives well + he's 6'11/240.


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    Member serendipity10's Avatar
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    The Knicks are only looking to deal 1 year deals, so they won't have many options at Center in free agency.

    Realistic options are Kwame Brown, Kurt Thomas, or some other center that won't be worth it. Not sure how much the Blazers want to keep Greg Oden being a restricted agent, he might be someone to gamble on for the right price. He's injury prone and never played a full season so he should be cheap.

    I see Nene a unrestricted free agent, is he really available or does the list I see needs to be updated. He has also been going through injuries but in my opinion still can play. I don't see the Nuggets letting him go and for the most part going for a 1 year contract.

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    Member serendipity10's Avatar
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    I think the Robin Lopez trade makes a lot of sense, and don't see why this wouldn't work. The Knicks are in a renting a center mode and Robin Lopez is a man for the job. I'm confused as to what the Suns are trying to do with their team, but picking up Walker and letting go Lopez won't affect them.

    In the most part like the article said the Suns most likely won't keep Carter so Walker will help. The Suns save money, have a decent player, and won't feel obligated to play Lopez. It is a win win situation.

    Knicks will still have Turiaf at his best coming off the bench and possibly good mix with Robin Lopez on the floor. Team chemistry is what is most important. The Knicks have little time to develop team chemistry to prepare for the season. It should not be difficult for Lopez to learn the system and has already played with Stat.

    Good find Crazy8s.
    Last edited by serendipity10; Nov 27, 2011 at 16:45.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Joel Pryzbilla!!!

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    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Fields, Jorts, 3mil cash and a 2nd for Gortat

    Sign Crawford


    Billups
    Crawford
    Anthony
    Stoudemire
    Gortat

    I like

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    Originally Posted by Dzwonsson
    And what about Gortat (also Phoenix), he averaged 9.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks and 13 points since the trade from Orlando, he's a very good screener and drives well + he's 6'11/240.

    I'd love to have Gortat, but he's worth $22M over the next 3 years; $6.8M this year. Unless the cap is stratospheric this year, we'd be very, very lucky to get Phoenix's backup center, Lopez, in a deal that doesn't have us losing someone we don't want to. That and the fact that we're not exactly on Phoenix's buddy list after the STAT and MD signings.



    Player 2011-2012
    Carmelo Anthony $18,518,574
    Amar’e Stoudemire $18,217,705
    Chauncey Billups $14,200,000
    Ronny Turiaf $4,360,000
    Renaldo Balkman $1,675,000
    Toney Douglas $1,145,640
    Bill Walker $916,100
    Derrick Brown $920,525
    Andy Rautins $788,872
    Landry Fiels $788,872


    So our 2011-2012 total is $60,610,763

    Qualifying offers do not count towards the total team salary for that season and are informational only.

    New York Knicks Salary Cap Holds

    Player 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
    Roger Mason $1,680,000
    Anthony Carter $884,293
    Shelden Williams $884,293
    Shawne Williams $884,293
    Derrick Brown $884,293
    Jared Jeffries $884,293
    Chauncey Billups MAX 10+
    Ronny Turiaf $8,720,000
    Bill Walker $1,832,200
    Landry Fields Vet Min (2)
    Toney Douglas $6,203,640
    Renaldo Balkman $3,350,000
    Andy Rautins Vet Min (2)
    Amar’e Stoudemire MAX 10+
    Carmelo Anthony MAX 10+


    What is a cap hold? A cap hold is the amount of space a free agent counts towards a team’s cap. These “cap holds” factor in when a team signs free agents. If they didn’t exist, a team could use their cap space to sign other free agents until the space was gone, and then re-sign their own free agents using the Bird exception. A cap hold cannot exceed the maximum contract offer that player can receive on the open market (as defined by years of experience – indicated in the table above by MAX followed by the years of experience). The cap hold disappears if the team renounces their own free agent, that free agent signs with a new team, or re-signs with the same team.

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    Not happening.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Fields, Jorts, 3mil cash and a 2nd for Gortat

    Sign Crawford


    Billups
    Crawford
    Anthony
    Stoudemire
    Gortat

    I like
    Crawford is a chucker with no D. He can play, but he is absolutely the wrong fit for a team boasting 2 superstars. I would FAR prefer Landry Fields as 6th man with those intangibles and size, over Crawford's pinner frame and perimeter lurking game that boasts NO defence.

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    I like Gortat and Robin Lopez, im also still a kurt thomas fan. I realized recently that in my opinion the center position is not half as important as it used to be, but u still gotta have a guy who can rebound and play some defense.

    Somebody here might kill me, but I think we should keep Jared Jeffries around just for when we play the Celtics. He is the official Rondo stopper and although they're definitely not a championship anymore there still a pain in the ass and a tough playoff team. We will most likely have to go through them

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    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    I like Gortat and Robin Lopez, im also still a kurt thomas fan. I realized recently that in my opinion the center position is not half as important as it used to be, but u still gotta have a guy who can rebound and play some defense.

    Somebody here might kill me, but I think we should keep Jared Jeffries around just for when we play the Celtics. He is the official Rondo stopper and although they're definitely not a championship anymore there still a pain in the ass and a tough playoff team. We will most likely have to go through them
    we actually got Iman to stop Rondo, not so much from making all those assist but from stolling into the paint for easy shots.

    Also Robin would be good but Idk the knicks tend to overpay for people and right now he is a backup C who never really plays (due somewhat to injuries he has). If the Suns wanted anything more than another backup player I would hope the Knicks front office wouldn't do it. Especially for shumpert considering what happened when they traded the rookie Nene for Mcdyess.

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    Member serendipity10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3

    Somebody here might kill me, but I think we should keep Jared Jeffries around just for when we play the Celtics. He is the official Rondo stopper and although they're definitely not a championship anymore there still a pain in the ass and a tough playoff team. We will most likely have to go through them
    I kind of feel the same way about Jared Jeffries. Jeffries defense is not bad its good enough to consider bringing him back on the bench. The reason for everyone hating him is mostly because of his contract, if was payed a role players salary the hatred would lessen. Don't get me wrong he is kind of dumb and makes mistakes, but for the right price can help the Knicks on defense.


    Wargames, Robin's contract ends after the upcoming season. He would be a rental, and players play their best when their contract is about to expire. He is inexpensive and might be a surprise like some on the Knicks last season like Fields and Seane Williams. The trade won't be for Iman, the Knicks will not go for that. It would be for Walker or Rautins with maybe cash. The Suns have to be crazy to ask for Iman because this is not an option for them. See why I think Suns will go for the trade on my comments above.
    Last edited by serendipity10; Nov 27, 2011 at 23:17.

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    we actually got Iman to stop Rondo, not so much from making all those assist but from stolling into the paint for easy shots.

    Also Robin would be good but Idk the knicks tend to overpay for people and right now he is a backup C who never really plays (due somewhat to injuries he has). If the Suns wanted anything more than another backup player I would hope the Knicks front office wouldn't do it. Especially for shumpert considering what happened when they traded the rookie Nene for Mcdyess.
    I wanna see him do it first. Rondo shouldnt be defended the way most players are, thats the wrong way to defend him. You have to play off him and close in on him when he gets about 10 to 12 feet from the rim. Jeffries does it perfectly, and even when he doesnt i have seen him block rondo from behind several times. For some reason, im not 100% sure why but he owns Rondo.

    Originally Posted by serendipity10
    I kind of feel the same way about Jared Jeffries. Jeffries defense is not bad its good enough to consider bringing him back on the bench. The reason for everyone hating him is mostly because of his contract, if was payed a role players salary the hatred would lessen. Don't get me wrong he is kind of dumb and makes mistakes, but for the right price can help the Knicks on defense.
    Thank you finally someone that agrees. Hes goofy on offense but if we were healthier last year in the playoffs he wouldnt have got any looks. Im sure we could get him for the minimum, he has value against certain teams and some of those teams are teams we will most likely have to battle in the playoffs

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Robin Lopez? Is Steve Nash included?

    Dalembert would be a risk with being unhappy with "not enough shots" wise, but with two superstar scorers I'd take his rebounding and defense. Of course he wasn't gonna do anything on the Sixers and Kings.

    I'd be all for Kurt Thomas. What's not to to like? Turiaf and Thomas would be pretty good.

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    I think Harrelson will surprise alotta us. Hes a big white polar bear thats traveled from the North pole to the streets of New York. Nobodies pushin him off the block. He's gonna be a stronger, better defensive version of david lee

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    David Lee.

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