Melo Stood To LOse $5.8M If He Signed As A FA

ronoranina

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
LJ4ptplay said:
That's the thing. I've been saying this for over a year, not just now. Shouldn't be anything new to the regulars here.

I don't complain about Amare because he came here as a free agent. If Melo came here as a free agent he would probably be my favorite Knick because it would have showed how important winning, and especially winning for the Knicks, was to him. And if Amare had forced the Knicks to trade all of their assets, draft picks and flexibility for a few extra million, Amare would be at the top of my Knick s**t list too.
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Yea but what you're saying is easy to speculate about. Melo's the one that stands to lose dough.You mean to tell me if he goes to Jersey and we're stuck with what we had and missed the opportunity to get him you'd be happy about that?? You seriously wouldn't cry about it??

He's gotta make a decision based on what's best for him. l don't think we knew that stars salaries would basically stay as they are so certainly as youre claiming. I believe there was much uncertainty about that around the time he was making his decision, which is why he decided it was best that he make a deal when he did. I don't blame him for it.
 
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LJ4ptplay

LJ4ptplay

Starter
ronoranina said:
Yea but what you're saying is easy to speculate about. Melo's the one that stands to lose dough.You mean to tell me if he goes to Jersey and we're stuck with what we had and missed the opportunity to get him you'd be happy about that?? You seriously wouldn't cry about it??

He's gotta make a decision based on what's best for him. l don't think we knew that stars salaries would basically stay as they are so certainly as youre claiming. I believe there was much uncertainty about that around the time he was making his decision, which is why he decided it was best that he make a deal when he did. I don't blame him for it.
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No. I would have been fine with Melo on the Nets. I can think of a dozen realistic scenarios where we could build a better team without him. Too many people have the false idea that the only way we could win was with Melo. Our team is not as good as people think. Melo was not the "be all and end all" for the Knicks.
 
KingCharles34

KingCharles34

All Star
This year im gonna try to ignore all the politics and just enjoy the fact that we're a tough playoff team. Definitely not a championship team at least yet, but im just gonna try to enjoy this and not get caught up in the negatives. I do agree with LJ4PTplay, you made several great points but Melo is here, we made the trade and theres no going back now. So we might as well just enjoy having 2 all stars. I mean last years playoffs didnt even count because of all the injuries we had, Im just hopin we can get some decent role players for the minimum and hold it down as a top 4 or 5 team in the east.
 
LJ4ptplay

LJ4ptplay

Starter
LeFlume said:
Let me make it simple for you guys. In todays market. YOU NEED STARS to win championship. Do you guys think "cheap shit" is gonna get you pass LeBron, D-Wade and Chris Bosh? GET REAL..If you don't see that than you are clueless. If we want to compete, we have to spend. Look at Dallas and Mark Cuban...HE KNEW what he had to do. Thats how you win...YOU SPEND...LAKERS, Celtics..Dallas.They spend...they win..
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So you're saying Melo is the only star. That Melo was the only chance to get a star and if we passed we would never get another star?

By the way, Dallas only has 1 star but a very deep TEAM.


*Edit - None of this matters anyway. It's not the point. Why does everyone make excuses for obvious greed. I have more respect for Kingstarbury because he accepts it and just says he's happy to have him. That's fine. No need to make excuses for Melo.
 
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L

LeFlume

All Star
No I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is--that Melo was something we had to do. I don't think it would have been easy to get another star if we had missed the opportunity to land 'Melo.

I don't think any upcoming FA would have seen the Knicks as a contender with STAT and roleplayers. Remember we lost LeBron. We diden't look relevant. Miami, Bulls a lot of team looked sexier than us. If we had missed 'Melo the Knicks stock would have dropped fast...
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
I can't possibly reply to everyone, and wouldn't care to with most, but I'll reply to this:

p0nder said:
Crazy: You can't compare the scenerio because it NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.
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I don't get the train of thought here. It's very self-reassuring. I also don't see how you've managed to put the likelihood down to a percentage either. Hypothetical bullshit indeed.

Melo would have had to sign an extension with the Nets - much easier to put a percentage likelihood on that (hypothetically speaking) - or sign again with the Nuggets.

You seem rather at odds with yourself, really.

KingStarbury3 said:
This year im gonna try to ignore all the politics and just enjoy the fact that we're a tough playoff team.
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And this ^

I completely agree. I'm less inclined, obviously, to ignore the politics, but I am glad that we have a great player.

I am a fan of Carmelo Anthony. Never said I wasn't. Have said that I am on numerous occasions prior to posting this thread.

He has his work set ahead of him to get us to where we could have been in another, equally likely scenario.

Also, in the 12 games missed this season, Melo has lost himself this year's potential FA signing discrepancy of $1.4M.

It's gone.

This thread was never about the Melo faithfuls VS the disgruntled.

It's highlighting the fact that it would've been easier to achieve the NBA's common goal of winning a championship, had Melo done his best to come onboard as a FA at his own $5.8M loss.

Easy to understand, no?
 
L

LeFlume

All Star
I don't think 'Melo would have reach free agency. Nuggets made it clear early that they were not gonna make the same misstake as Cleveland. So did 'Melo. He diden't wanna leave Denver the way LeBron left Cleveland. You can speculate all you want about that 5.8M. But Melo would not be a Knick today if we dident trade for him. Someone else would have or he would have signed with Denver. Him being FA was never an option. He said it, Denver said it, everybody knew it...

Denver could offer him more money than we did--so in a way--Melo came to New York at his own loss.
 
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CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
Im confused 1 person said paul will get 4yrs/56mil via FA now I'm hearing something like 4yr/76mil....I just wanna hear something from an NBA exec who knows the cap situation and not ric bucher
 
petescud

petescud

Starter
why Donnie didn't want to do the trade to begin with...losing the draft picks, as well as Danillo, Randolph and Chandler...IMO Melo wasn't thinking too, to want his new team to give up that much...
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
The easy thing is that Melo had no idea the new CBA would turn out like this.

There were lots of folks, myself included, who were worried that the new CBA was going to force the entire league to scale contracts back 25%, or shorten the length of a max deal, or add a franchise tag, or something stupid like that.
 
p0nder

p0nder

Starter
Crazy⑧s;187189 said:
I can't possibly reply to everyone, and wouldn't care to with most, but I'll reply to this:

I don't get the train of thought here. It's very self-reassuring. I also don't see how you've managed to put the likelihood down to a percentage either. Hypothetical bullshit indeed.

Melo would have had to sign an extension with the Nets - much easier to put a percentage likelihood on that (hypothetically speaking) - or sign again with the Nuggets.

You seem rather at odds with yourself, really.


This thread was never about the Melo faithfuls VS the disgruntled.

It's highlighting the fact that it would've been easier to achieve the NBA's common goal of winning a championship, had Melo done his best to come onboard as a FA at his own $5.8M loss.

Easy to understand, no?
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It's quite easy to understand that in your hypothetical situation where Melo is not traded from the nuggets, they don't do well in the playoffs, he enters free agency and waits until today to sign with the knicks, that we would have Felton, Gallo, and Moz and what, 1.5 mill per year extra?

I don't know if that honestly makes us a better team then the one we have now. Out of those 3 players, i'd keep gallo but his position is redundant because of Melo. Wilson Chandler would be a FA/in china anyways. But honestly I'd rather have Melo with Chauncey then with Felton. Moz vs. Jordan, does it matter?

Also, if people here are going to throw around hypothetical mumbojumbo i'ma get in on the action. My 50% chance of Melo joining the knicks comes from the amount of options and variables in the way. His options were plentiful: 1) sign back with denver (that team was pretty good and could be getting better) 2) get traded to a different team and bring them to the playoffs, enjoy the experience and sign with them 3) go to china, turkey, or another place and play the next year or two away from the NBA. 4) sign with the knicks. Thats a 1 in 4 chance. 25%...

But O.K. Melo REALLY wanted to be a knick. You could put it down as pure will to join the knicks and that he'd sign with us whenever FA started up. But what if, in the meantime, the knicks made a play for Howard and Nash and we didn't have the cap space to get Melo? Sure, we'd probably be happy, but Melo would have burned bridges in Denver for nothing. The only way Melo could guarantee he'd be a knick was to ask for a trade. Was it selfish to want to be a knick so f%$kin hard? I guess?

Before we knew the lockout was over, it very well could have been an entire year (or more if they dissolved the union) before basketball in the NBA was played. Who knows what is going to happen a year or more in the future? Hind sight is 20/20.
 
nyk_nyk

nyk_nyk

All Star
SSj4Wingzero said:
The easy thing is that Melo had no idea the new CBA would turn out like this.

There were lots of folks, myself included, who were worried that the new CBA was going to force the entire league to scale contracts back 25%, or shorten the length of a max deal, or add a franchise tag, or something stupid like that.
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THIS.

Exactly! So if you are Melo, you make sure you get your deal done ASAP. This topic is all about perception. People forget that basketall players are also part of a business and the best business decision for Melo at the time was securing an extend and trade for himself.

He already said that if we didn't do the deal he most likely would have signed with NJ. He was not going into FA with an unknown CBA, period. As a fan I understand how people can attack him for forcing a trade but he's not just a fantasy player on your ESPN league. He's also a real business man.

Why not blame Walsh for giving up too much? He didn't have to give up Mozgov, right?
 
WrongIslander

WrongIslander

Rotation player
Melo does have to take the responsibility and Amar'e isn't exempt from it either. They both wanted the dollar first and that's that. You can spin it anyway you want but as usual it was about "getting paid".

You can't be rational about some parts and irrational about the others. Melo and Amar'e are part of a broken system enabled mainly by big markets like NY, LA, Miami etc and stupid commissioners with no balls and less brains.

With that in mind do you really think that the greed of Melo would have meant he waited for New York up until now? No, me neither and we obviously know that outright now as well. So with that in mind where was his second choice? Why that would be the Bolshevik of course who was salivating at the thought and ready to pay whatever it took.

So really it was a question of stand up, back our guys and make them superstars (unlikely to say the least) or sell out and get our guys and that's exactly what we did.

We're all part of this broken system though of course we don't make the rules but to sit here and say a) is more in the right than b) or vice versa and overlook the biggest elephant in the room completely, well I'd say that makes everyone of us blind.

Melo has a lot to prove and answer for, as does Amar'e as does every max athlete out there that holds their teams to ransom but so does the sport as a whole for allowing it to happen and so do we as we allow the media to placate our need to win at all costs.

Personally regardless of his talent, I liked Gallo and he was my favourite player on the Knicks. The only reason I preferred Melo was because being a Syracuse fan Melo is my favourite player of all time but as far as being a person goes? Well he took a big step down for what he did to the Nuggets and what he cost us. Only person who should be 100% happy with the trade is MELO.
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
p0nder said:
It's quite easy to understand that in your hypothetical situation where Melo is not traded from the nuggets, they don't do well in the playoffs, he enters free agency and waits until today to sign with the knicks, that we would have Felton, Gallo, and Moz and what, 1.5 mill per year extra?

I don't know if that honestly makes us a better team then the one we have now. Out of those 3 players, i'd keep gallo but his position is redundant because of Melo. Wilson Chandler would be a FA/in china anyways. But honestly I'd rather have Melo with Chauncey then with Felton. Moz vs. Jordan, does it matter?

Also, if people here are going to throw around hypothetical mumbojumbo i'ma get in on the action. My 50% chance of Melo joining the knicks comes from the amount of options and variables in the way. His options were plentiful: 1) sign back with denver (that team was pretty good and could be getting better) 2) get traded to a different team and bring them to the playoffs, enjoy the experience and sign with them 3) go to china, turkey, or another place and play the next year or two away from the NBA. 4) sign with the knicks. Thats a 1 in 4 chance. 25%...

But O.K. Melo REALLY wanted to be a knick. You could put it down as pure will to join the knicks and that he'd sign with us whenever FA started up. But what if, in the meantime, the knicks made a play for Howard and Nash and we didn't have the cap space to get Melo? Sure, we'd probably be happy, but Melo would have burned bridges in Denver for nothing. The only way Melo could guarantee he'd be a knick was to ask for a trade. Was it selfish to want to be a knick so f%$kin hard? I guess?

Before we knew the lockout was over, it very well could have been an entire year (or more if they dissolved the union) before basketball in the NBA was played. Who knows what is going to happen a year or more in the future? Hind sight is 20/20.
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Sorry, I missed this.

In the end, Melo would have become a Knick. No hypotheticals, just the will of a young, star basketball player. Stars get what they want. If that hasn't become apparent after all that's happened, seeing that they are the demigods of the modern age, then I don't know what to say.

I don't believe for a second that the only way he could guarantee that he'd be a Knick would be to force the hand of those who held the key to what he wanted. Not at all. He didn't need to bail on his team, who were 5th in the west at the time he left, even throughout the fittingly named Melo Drama - and he didn't have to go through the whole Lebron saga, either. I can't dictate the standard on what's right and wrong for free agents, but I believe what he did was selfish, in regard to us, Chauncey Billups and his former team, and done with complete tunnel vision. Just a matter of opinion. Quickly became a witch hunt though, didn't it?

It's quite easy to understand that in your hypothetical situation where Melo is not traded from the nuggets, they don't do well in the playoffs, he enters free agency and waits until today to sign with the knicks, that we would have Felton, Gallo, and Moz and what, 1.5 mill per year extra?
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And then - you can call it formed out of hindsight but it isn't, I eluded to it immediate post trade once I found out Billups was involved - the last question remains about what Melo never took in to account: the fallout.

Pitting what could have been VS what is. Pointless? Depends on how you look at it, but I say no.

Which is more palatable, especially considering our thirst for a 3rd star.

Chauncey Billups' expiring contract and Balkman's 3 years.

OR

Felton, Gallo, Douglas, The Gov, Randolph and all our traded picks (I think you're right about leaving Wil C out of it) for Chris Paul on the table right now with N.0's back against the wall.

+ Curry's $11.4 coming off the books

Leaving us with a far higher likelihood of:

CP3 - Shump (or whoever)
Landry - Walker
Melo - whoever - does it matter?
STAT - Jefferies (perish the thought) - whoever
Ronny - Jorts - Jordan

This is what Donny Walsh wanted to protect. Not this specific scenario necessarily, of course, but just the ability and flexibility to maneuver for bigger and better things.

Is that hindsight? We could put a percentage on that!
 
I

iSaYughh

Starter
^^^ well, well stated and laid out.

Essentially, Melo gambled on us not winning and him getting top dollar, vs us winning and gambling on getting top dollar.

It's true Melo didn't know what the CBA would bring. But the real likelihood of him not losing dough was just as real, if not more real, than him not.

The negotiations spiraled to total SNAFU realms, as bad as anyone could have expected, so many angles going against things leading to a player beatdown...and still...

He chose to not a gamble a relatively low's % on losing some cash (to add on to his already huge coiffeurs), and chose to gamble a higher % of likelihood on us not winning (titles), so he could lock up whatever additional coin there was.

Not like most players or people wouldn't have.

But that doesn't mean we as Knick fans couldn't expect or want a higher standard of commitment to this franchise being a dynasty. I'd also argue, a higher level of foresight and all around smartness to the situation -- but that's debatable I guess. :afro:
 
M

MusketeerX

Rotation player
DontForgetDerekHarper said:
MusketeerX said:
THE BRINK OF WHAT

FOOLS

the only reason those members of our former team were on the brink of anything was because of
AMARE

AMARE
AMARE
AMARE
AMARE


we would of been tanked in the bottom of the league with a top 5 lottery pick again if it was left in the hands of Gallo and Chandler to lead us to the BRINK.


Im sorry
and yes my opinion is very important to me

but its beyond an opinion

our team was made up of role players and bench players and chuckers
and inconsistent scorers

now we have a core of veterans

proven winners

gold medal winners

perrenial all stars

and world champions

please stop for a second and recognize the insanity.
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Role players help to win rings just as much as superstars done. It is about the guy who steps up when the superstar can't. I think you have disrespected some great players and our team.

The Knicks were on the brink of perennial failure. Chandler, Gallinari and the rest stepped up and showed some heart. To disrespect that is inexcusable.
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S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Just consider this hypothetical.

If the trade deadline went and passed and Carmelo re-signed with the Nuggets or OK'd the extension to the Nets (I believe it was stated at some point that he basically agreed to go to NJ), and we got stuck with AR, Gallo, Felton, WC, and Mozgov...and the whole time, you knew that we could've had Melo but instead he spends the next 6 years as a Net...

Would you be ecstatic? Or would you be pissed off to hell and back because we gave up on Carmelo Anthony for ****ing Timofey Mozgov?
 
p0nder

p0nder

Starter
i gotta agree with 8's that the package for paul looks realy good when you put it that way... still, i feel we will end up with Paul and that point will be m00t. again, we'll look back with hindsight once CP3 lands and then i think things will come full circle.

If paul lands with us, then we would have lost those players in a trade anyways. if he doesn't, it could very well be because we don't have the pieces to make the deal, in which case I'd have to be pretty pissed with Melo.
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
SSj4Wingzero said:
Just consider this hypothetical.

Would you be ecstatic? Or would you be pissed off to hell and back because we gave up on Carmelo Anthony for ****ing Timofey Mozgov?
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Considered. But the Melo saga had a plan B for whoever lost out on his services: Deron Williams. And who is circling the loss of Mozgov as the trade's detractor? 'Tis not I!

p0nder said:
still, i feel we will end up with Paul and that point will be m00t. again, we'll look back with hindsight once CP3 lands and then i think things will come full circle.
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I hope you're right about CP3, dude, I really do. I just don't see it as a likelihood. Especially now that the Clippers are making a play. Orlando, who are no doubt drooling over him, are as unlikely as we are, too. But, you never know. :pray:

p0nder said:
If paul lands with us, then we would have lost those players in a trade anyways. if he doesn't, it could very well be because we don't have the pieces to make the deal, in which case I'd have to be pretty pissed with Melo.
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And that's the be all and end all of mine, mafra's and LJ4ptplay's gripe. I wish I'd have concocted the Paul trade scenario in the opening thread. That way I wouldn't have evoked such irrationality from certain individuals, yourself NOT included.

It set us back, a year of legitimate contention. That's my take, and I'm sticking to it.

Cheers
 
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