Melo Stood To LOse $5.8M If He Signed As A FA

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Crazy⑧s;187141 said:
For ****'s sake.

Illiteracy is rife on this site.

How have any of the posters who see the pristine clarity of the issue with the Melo trade actually compared him to those that were traded? We KNOW that his talents eclipse theirs. ****ing hell.

Their, my, our, his take is not about talent VS talent, it's about scenario VS scenario! All for the sake of an extra $1M/year for one individual!

I beg you, get out your abacus and tally. Tally ho!

Do you not understand!?

Eye read word - brain get message - brain no work: seems like the process of deliberation is precisely that, honestly.

Exactly. This has nothing to do with talent, or records pre/post trade, or even the act of trading for Melo, and all to do with the choice Melo made. He forced us to do the trade because he wanted money over winning. Nothing else. He forced us to sacrifice for his own gain. Nothing else.

Even Melo had to know that getting him during free agency vs. giving up talent, assets and draft picks is better for the Knicks and gives him a better chance at winning a championship with the Knicks. But that didn't bother him. He wanted money. All $1.45 mil/year of it. Justifying his greed with name calling, insults and comparing talents just seems like a fan of Melo more than the Knicks. I root for the jersey, not the player.
 

p0nder

Starter
Crazy: You can't compare the scenerio because it NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. Melo would be a Net and we'd have deron williams. Or he'd be a nugget and we'd be up shit creek without a paddle. The case i'm making is that if Melo (and james dolan) *waited* there's a pretty good chance (greater then 50%) that we wouldn't have melo at all.

Are we just throwing hypothetical bullshit around to deride one of our best players willingness to join us ASAP? He fought tooth and nail to get here and now we question if he's got NYK in his heart? SMH.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
The case i'm making is that if Melo (and james dolan) *waited* there's a pretty good chance (greater then 50%) that we wouldn't have melo at all.

Please explain. Melo would not be a Net without his decision to sign the extension. Melo would not have resigned with the Nuggets without his decision to sign the contract. If Melo and Dolan had waited, the only thing holding Melo from being a Knick, was Melo. That's it. No other factors. Where is this "greater then 50% that we wouldn't have melo at all" coming from?

And, as I have stated in the past, Melo is not as good as some people on here think. I've followed his career as a Nugget from the beginning. He's overrated, in my humble opinion. If he had gone to the Nets, we could still have built a better TEAM than the one we may be left with. I, for one, am not one of the fans that thinks CP3 + Melo + Amare + min salary scraps is a very good team. But that's my personal opinion and this season will answer all those questions of how good Melo really is.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
Wait, he didn't fight anything. Was there anything what kept him away from not extending his contract, waiting until he hits his free agency and then signing with the Knicks? Because even if the Nuggets traded him to the Nets without an extension, he could still say "screw you Prokhorov", call Dolan and sign with us as a free agent. He didn't fight to be a Knickerbocker, he fought to get more $$$, stop making him a superhero that did us a favor.
 

LeFlume

All Star
Melo was smart. He needed a contract and he got it. He would have gotten it elsewere if diden't step in. Denver Nuggets would not let him go for nothing like Cleveland did with LeBron. There is NO WAY that was going to happen. Don't blame Melo. Blame the system...
 

p0nder

Starter
As I have explained before there are many MANY variables at play. If Melo waited with the nuggets and they went to the finals, do you honestly think he'd still leave for the knicks? Do you honestly think a team of felton and gallo + stat is going to beat the celtics? I'm not even sure IF they'd make the playoffs. Before the trade deadline there were lots of close and shitty games. Felton was playing terrible, etc. you just don't know.

Wayy too many "if's" to say with certainty that Melo would have ended up here if we waited.


But O.K., lets go ahead and accept this ****ed up truism people have that Melo's only options were get traded or sign with us. Our 5.8 million bought us last season's worth of Melo and Chauncy Billups. IF we had a healthy squad we have a really good chance at beating Boston. Up until CB and STAT went down we were looking pretty good out there. So that 5.8 mill could have bought us a series win (again if we were healthy, but you guys enjoy using "ifs" so i'ma go with it).

Would our 5.8 million/feltons and co. not be worth the sereis win over the celtics? I thought we were in "Win Now" mode? or are we still biding our time? if there's a trade for Paul that requires we give up shump and fields and douglas + cash would you honestly not do it? I thought we were accumulating talent on our squad so we could compete with Miami, not biding our time as a mediocre playoff team.
 

p0nder

Starter
Wait, he didn't fight anything. Was there anything what kept him away from not extending his contract, waiting until he hits his free agency and then signing with the Knicks? Because even if the Nuggets traded him to the Nets without an extension, he could still say "screw you Prokhorov", call Dolan and sign with us as a free agent. He didn't fight to be a Knickerbocker, he fought to get more $$$, stop making him a superhero that did us a favor.


If he wanted the money he could just as easily make it with the Nets. If your claim is true and he's only in it for the money, he'd just re-sign there, right?

Why did he tell the nuggets and everyone in the world, "the only team i'll sign with is the knicks", if he was not fighting to join us? You guys act like he's some kind of supervillian that masterminded a fleecing of the knicks talent (when in fact it was a good trade for the knicks). All Melo ever said was: I wanna play with New York on my jersey. He felt he could contribute right away to a winning atmosphere and perhaps lead to some playoff wins. It didn't pan out, but i'm not going to fault the guy for wanting to play with the knicks ASAP.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
@ponder: nothing changed after the trade, there still were close and bad games, there were players playing terrible etc. We were playing the same basketball before and after the trade. Right after the season I said that I didn't expect anything more than the first round. That's why this season will be so important, our stars and another new pieces had enough time to gel and learn how to play with each other. Now it's up to them, no more excuses, no more blaming teammates, coaching stuff or media. I don't expect the title, to be honest 4th seed and anything more than the 1st round would be enough for me to say: great job. I once said Anthony is overrated and overpaid, that was right after the trade. But now I think he can brings us the title, maybe not this season, but in the future when no more crazy things happen around the Knicks and we're done rebuilding this team. But now it's about time for Carmelo to prove, to convince us he was worth everything or even more than what we gave to land him in New York.

+ few more words about the trade, of course he could resign with the Nets, but their offer didn't meet Nuggets' demands.
 
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LJ4ptplay

Starter
If he wanted the money he could just as easily make it with the Nets. If your claim is true and he's only in it for the money, he'd just re-sign there, right?

It was about the money to him. He told Donnie the Knicks were his first choice but he wanted that extension (i.e. money) and would go with the Nets if we didn't trade for him. I don't blame Donnie for doing what Melo forced him to do. I only blame Melo (and Dolan for meddling). He had all the power. The decision was his alone.


He felt he could contribute right away to a winning atmosphere and perhaps lead to some playoff wins. It didn't pan out, but i'm not going to fault the guy for wanting to play with the knicks ASAP.

Is that what this was all about? Getting to the playoffs? Half a season of games and make the playoffs (which we would have done regardless)? I thought this was about building a championship contender? And there is no way you can say that his decision didn't make it more difficult to do than if he had waited. We would be championship contenders THIS YEAR if he signed with us right now. Now, we will have to wait another year or two, at least. This team is not as good as many of you think. It needs A LOT of pieces.

And there is the difference between us. I DO fault the guy for demanding he come to the Knicks right away. All he had to do was wait a few months. It was greed, plain and simple. There is no other way to look at it. You can sugar coat it and make excuses for him all you want, but you can't say the Knicks woudn't be better if he had waited and signed with us. This is about the Knicks winning a championship. That's the only thing that matters. His greed made it more difficult for us, much more difficult. And that bothers me.

Melo has a lot to prove to Knick fans. We'll see.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
It was about the money to him. He told Donnie the Knicks were his first choice but he wanted that extension (i.e. money) and would go with the Nets if we didn't trade for him. I don't blame Donnie for doing what Melo forced him to do. I only blame Melo (and Dolan for meddling). He had all the power. The decision was his alone.




Is that what this was all about? Getting to the playoffs? Half a season of games and make the playoffs (which we would have done regardless)? I thought this was about building a championship contender? And there is no way you can say that his decision didn't make it more difficult to do than if he had waited. We would be championship contenders THIS YEAR if he signed with us right now. Now, we will have to wait another year or two, at least. This team is not as good as many of you think. It needs A LOT of pieces.

And there is the difference between us. I DO fault the guy for demanding he come to the Knicks right away. All he had to do was wait a few months. It was greed, plain and simple. There is no other way to look at it. You can sugar coat it and make excuses for him all you want, but you can't say the Knicks woudn't be better if he had waited and signed with us. This is about the Knicks winning a championship. That's the only thing that matters. His greed made it more difficult for us, much more difficult. And that bothers me.

Melo has a lot to prove to Knick fans. We'll see.
The most important words in this duscussion. Knicks for life, championship for New York!
:gony:
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
First of all, Melo has no control over what DEN asks for in a trade. Second, I can't blame Melo for wanting to get a deal done prior to the CBA being expired. From what I read, everyone knew this lockout was going to get messy and a smart player would prefer his finances to be in place before an unfavorable new agreement is signed for the next 10 years.

Also, even though Melo's ultimate choice was NY, he made it known that he wanted an extension in the process. I don't understand why people are acting like they didn't know this. WE wanted him to wait until the summer. In all truth, we were f***ed by time. If the CBA expired in 2014 maybe Melo waits till the offseason like Paul is ready to do.

Yes we gave up a lot off assets, but lets not forget we traded for one of the best young players in the ENTIRE LEAGUE. Walsh couldn't have said no to DEN because if we lost Melo he would have been ridiculed harshly. Sure we could use a few of the players we traded but having Melo and Billups aint bad. Plus, if Shump turns out to be a stud and Jordan is decent then all is well with everyone.

On a side note: I really think its Walker's time to show how valuable he really is. Dantoni has limited him (to a purely outside threat) but he's really made in the same mold as a Jason Richardson.
 

LeFlume

All Star
If you guys think getting Melo to NY was a bad deal then you are retarded. It was a must move. Both for basketball and creating that buzz around the team being back. Marketing is everything when you start building an empire. ..Wake up People...Getting Melo is the best thing that have happen to the Knicks since Patrick Ewing,,Roll with the program friends..

GO KNICKS
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
First of all, Melo has no control over what DEN asks for in a trade. Second, I can't blame Melo for wanting to get a deal done prior to the CBA being expired. From what I read, everyone knew this lockout was going to get messy and a smart player would prefer his finances to be in place before an unfavorable new agreement is signed for the next 10 years.

Exactly.

Why do people expect him to do anything other than what he did. He had to get a deal done before the new CBA. That was his priority. I don't blame him. I would want the same thing. So would the other people on here who are crying over this nonsense. Most of y'all who are bitching would do the exact same thing!!

Would we have been better off waiting til FA, not getting Melo and twittling our thumbs with the same average prospects and Amare. Idk. I think probably not. We're in a better position now than we were then, easily.

And you can't just say you would rather have had him in a different scenario/situation, or whatever. Especially when that situation more than likely would not have landed you the player. Did Melo know that he stood to only lose approx 5.8 mil? I doubt that very much. Who here honestly thinks Melo would/should of have waited to sign w us as a FA considering all of the BS we've seen between the owners and NBAPA recently? To question him for not going this route is simply unrealistic, irrational when you consider how people generally will place their own self-interest above all else. The man handled his business and that's all you can expect from him.

People got chill and be real about this ***t.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Why did he have to get a deal done before the new CBA? I was saying over a year ago that max contracts weren't going to change much. There was no way the league was going to lower the salaries of its most important players the way everybody was saying.

The people that stood to lose the most were the mid-level to upper players. I said this over a year ago. It was players like Jamal Crawford and Nene that stood to lose the most, yet we never heard any complaining or demands from them.

It was selfish greed, nothing else. And I can't understand why so many people want to make false excuses for it. Hey, if he wins us a championship, then all is forgiven. But he certainly made it harder for the Knicks to do it, and the level of scrutiny on Melo will be much greater because so.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Why did he have to get a deal done before the new CBA? I was saying over a year ago that max contracts weren't going to change much. There was no way the league was going to lower the salaries of its most important players the way everybody was saying.

The people that stood to lose the most were the mid-level to upper players. I said this over a year ago. It was players like Jamal Crawford and Nene that stood to lose the most, yet we never heard any complaining or demands from them.

It was selfish greed, nothing else. And I can't understand why so many people want to make false excuses for it. Hey, if he wins us a championship, then all is forgiven. But he certainly made it harder for the Knicks to do it, and the level of scrutiny on Melo will be much greater because so.


You don't know until you know. Seems it's much easier too say what you're saying now as we've seen events unfold.

Is it really worth it for a player of Melo's caliber to wait and risk possibly losing tens of millons?? Probably not. I hear you, but i still can't fault him.

Amare took 100 mil from Dolan as a FA. Did that make things harder for us?

Haven't heard you lamenting that move.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
You don't know until you know. Seems it's much easier too say what you're saying now as we've seen events unfold.

Is it really worth it for a player of Melo's caliber to wait and risk possibly losing tens of millons?? Probably not. I hear you, but i still can't fault him.

Amare took 100 mil from Dolan as a FA. Did that make things harder for us?

Haven't heard you lamenting that move.

That's the thing. I've been saying this for over a year, not just now. Shouldn't be anything new to the regulars here.

I don't complain about Amare because he came here as a free agent. If Melo came here as a free agent he would probably be my favorite Knick because it would have showed how important winning, and especially winning for the Knicks, was to him. And if Amare had forced the Knicks to trade all of their assets, draft picks and flexibility for a few extra million, Amare would be at the top of my Knick s**t list too.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Blame Melo's former agent if he didn't convince Melo to sign on for an extra year unlike the Heat 3 then he woulda been a FA in 2012 and signed with STAT at the same time we coulda still got Felton just no Turiaf, Randolph and Azubuike
 

LeFlume

All Star
Let me make it simple for you guys. In todays market. YOU NEED STARS to win championship. Do you guys think "cheap shit" is gonna get you pass LeBron, D-Wade and Chris Bosh? GET REAL..If you don't see that than you are clueless. If we want to compete, we have to spend. Look at Dallas and Mark Cuban...HE KNEW what he had to do. Thats how you win...YOU SPEND...LAKERS, Celtics..Dallas.They spend...they win..
 
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