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Thread: FORGET Paul & Howard !!! Build a winner now.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Default FORGET Paul & Howard !!! Build a winner now.

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    BOTH LA teams are making a run to acquire BOTH Chris Paul & Dwight Howard. Both have the asses and cap space to make it happen. Lakers have KOBE & the Clippers have Blake Griffin & Eric Gordon. Add CP3 & DH to either roster, and you have a dominating championship-caliber team.

    Not to mention, both are jockeying and competing with each other, play in same arena... And the future belongs to the team that pulls off this blockbuster, NBA-shattering maneuver. In other words, the Knicks don't stand a chance to get either player.

    Also consider that Howard wants to play in the sunshine, all either LA team really has to do is trade for Paul... Then sit back and watch Howard sign with them as a free agent next July.

    I believe this gives NY 2 options:

    - Play the "we'll try to win next year... seriously... trust us" game yet again

    or

    - Just say screw it, we're going to win right now!

    I say forget next year, and preserving cap space. Go make an offer for Nene, DeAndre Jordan or Marc Gasol. Sign a Chuck Hayes.

    If we guarantee no-trade clauses, or promise to win-now, we might even convince a J-Crawford or a few other vets to sign here in NYK and make a run at a title.

    I'm not sure who else is a free agent next year. BUt I think I would prefer J-Rich & Chuck Hayes or something to waiting for Deron?

    Tough call. Not even sure if we could pull off signing a Nene & Hayes this eyar, while adding a Hill? Is it we don't want to dip into next year's cap? Or, is it we really only have X amount anyway... So even if we offered a guy a multi-year deal, using an exemption... would that prevent us from using another vet exemption?

    Who knows.

    But I'm tired of this waiting game.

    We have 2 legit studs. We have Billups. No go get me some beef on the front court, and a SG + a sniper.

    Hill, Redd & Nene works for me.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    What good is it to build a team that can't beat the Heat and is one notch below elite? I rather lose the next 2-3 years if it means we end up with an actual elite team capable of winning a title. None of the players you mentioned can get that done IMO.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    MAVS beat the Heat w/ a solid team. They didn't need 3 super stars.

    Still, like you mentioned, even given the reality that we probably have no shot at Paul or Howard, it's not like the vets we're chasing w/ 1 year deals are all that terrible.. nor are we passing on a legit player b/c we want to preserve cap space.

    I just think a Tyson Chandler, NENE, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol... Well, we should target one of these players.

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    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    first off the lakers aren't getting dwight and pau. There in the same boat as we were last year either NO or Orlando is gonna take all their assets for their star. Jerry West can't save them this time.

    Also I got to agree that line up you posted doesn't get the knicks a ring it just gets them a 4/5 seed annually. Forgive me for saying this but The Knicks FO are being smart (i know oxymoron) to not spend at all this year for a few reasons.

    1) You never know a star may take a pay cut to play with two other stars in the 2012 FA.

    2) Most the players who are FA are questionable this year and next year really is a much better year player wise. De'Andre showed potential last year, Nene is injury prone, hayes is not the ideal height, J rich last year played just like Fields but was more consistent and may be on the decline. Tyson Chandler and Gasol both want maxes...

    3) We all know the knicks may be looking for a new head coach next year if D'antoni doesn't get the team to the second round at least and even if they lose there it has to be a close series. Also if Phil Jackson comes back to coach for NY D'antoni is still gone unless the knicks were in the finals.

    So it doesn't make sense to spend money on a personnel now when the whole system may change 2012. everyone knows their dumpster diving but honestly its the best move. If it wasn't the best move trust me the media would be making a million jokes about the knicks for getting garbage players.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    I hope you're right.

    I mean, why would NO want a Euro C in return for Paul? Paul for Pau? Gasol is going to be 32 in July. Yikes. He makes a pretty penny as well.

    I think any trade LAK make has to include Bynum. This means they only get to make 1 trade.

    If the Lakers are smart, the deal Bynum for CP3. Make the move and hope the allure of Hollywood, Kobe & Paul is enough to convince Howard to sign with them next July.

    Then again, the threat to deal Bynum to NO might be enough for ORL to act quickly, and pounce on Bynum while they have a shot. Who knows.

    I think the Clippers are the wild card here. I know their owner is cheap... But he has been makng moves lately. HIs team desperately wants to take the town over, and push the Lakers back into the trunk of the car.

    They have a solid SG in Eric Gordon and a beastly-stud in Blake Griffin. The have Hollywood to offer, and the allure of being an org that has never won... A nice challenge for somebody to help be the guy to change that.

    MAINLY, check out the assets LAC possess:

    1) Minnesota's 2012 unprotected first round selection.
    2) LAC's 2014 1st round pick.
    3) Chris Kaman's 12.2 mil expiring contract
    4) PG Eric Bledsoe
    5) SF Al-Farouq Amini
    6) Randy Foye's 4.2 mil expiring contract
    7) Ryan Gomes (4 mil this & next year)
    8) Willie Warren
    9) Restricted free agent DeAndre Jordan
    10) Eric Gordon, if necessary

    MAN, that's a boatload to work with if you're LAC.

    Just Kaman's & Foye's expriing contract works out nicely, if a 3rd team can be brought in the mix... who wants to dump a contract.

    MIN's 2012 1st is a lottery pick.

    Of course, they would have to part with Gordon if necessary, and convince Jordan to accept a sign-&-trade.

    But, LAC could easily gamble here & deal for Paul or Howard. If I were LAC I would trade for Howard. Blake-Howard would be nasty-filthy. Then, you have 2 shots at a PG next year. Even if Paul passes, you always have Deron (who has already stated he wants to play for Howard.

    Deron Williams
    Eric Gordon
    Blake Griffin
    Dwight Howard


    W-O-W.

    Plus, the main reason I would purse Howard, if I ran LAC, would be b/c LAKERS covet his services, and LAK always get the big bad center.

    So, in this scenario, and depending what it costs to get Howard, maybe this helps Knicks. I mean, if Clippers snag Howard... I doubt LAK trade for Paul w/out assurance he'll resign there. And why would Paul want to sign on there? Gasol-Odom-Kobe are all old? Who knows though, maybe he would.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    What good is it to build a team that can't beat the Heat and is one notch below elite? I rather lose the next 2-3 years if it means we end up with an actual elite team capable of winning a title.
    I don't get the train of thought.

    Why couldn't a team of either Jordan - Nene - Gasol, STAT, Melo, Fields and Billups beat the Heat? With a deep bench that's used effectively, this NYK team could rattle the cage of any team. We saw the severity of Chandler's impact in Dallas, why couldn't it happen here? Sure, we'd need a more veteran, savvy back-court after Billup's inevitable departure, but 2-3 years of downtime is a waste of immediate opportunity.

    And why consider this team's capability as a preemptive 2nd round playoff non-hopeful?

    Is there any real assurance that in 2-3 years we'll be in a better position than we are now? We've worked for the last 2-3 years to get our 2 stars. Now we have them.

    The Knicks' window of opportunity has never been so wide open, but it will shut quickly if we don't wedge it with the right players.

    I don't see the point of putting our eggs in yet another basket based around the unforeseeable future again, and wallowing in one year contracts etc in the meantime.

    Miami's big 3, as Shaq so bluntly put it, are a big 2.5. We can match a 2.5, but whether or not the Heat have set the standard with Bosh as their 3rd star is still up for evaluation. Sure, they made the finals, but one star teams - Chicago + Orlando - are only one key addition away from real contention. We have our 2, they just need the right condiments to get the right taste.

    I think we have the ingredients right now to stir up the East for the first time in over a decade. Add a center, add the right game plan, and we've got something special.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra

    MAINLY, check out the assets LAC possess:

    1) Minnesota's 2012 unprotected first round selection.
    2) LAC's 2014 1st round pick.
    3) Chris Kaman's 12.2 mil expiring contract
    4) PG Eric Bledsoe
    5) SF Al-Farouq Amini
    6) Randy Foye's 4.2 mil expiring contract
    7) Ryan Gomes (4 mil this & next year)
    8) Willie Warren
    9) Restricted free agent DeAndre Jordan
    10) Eric Gordon, if necessary

    MAN, that's a boatload to work with if you're LAC.
    I eluded to precisely the same thing. That's a tantalizing package for anyone looking to turn around the franchise in the wake of its best players' departure.

    And a lottery pick is like a BJ in these scenarios.

    Apparently, the Clippers have kept Eric Gordon out of negotiations without some solid remark from Paul regarding his desire to extend.

    The GSW are also favored by the Hornets according to sources. I've come to hate that ****ing word! Sources - vomit

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    Nein, Mann! Weissenberg's Avatar
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    Well, an alternative scenario isn't that bad as some users might think. We have some pool of talent within our hands already. Douglas - great dribbling skills and he is an excellent downtown shooter; you hear just "cha-ching" before you realize you left him an inch too much, money in the bank. He's inconsistent and not responsible enough to become a starter yet, but this is Billups' work to teach that guy how to deliver, avoid turnovers and use the clock. Last but not least, Toney plays DEFENSE.
    Shumpert works extremely hard, wise shot selection, fast, quick moves, fun to watch and plays DEFENSE, we could start him at #2.
    Carmelo, do I really have to say what are his strenghts? I'd just add: if he wants to - he plays DEFENSE.
    Amare - leadership, offensive beast, we all know what he's able to do, he plays very little defense, but hands up, screen and some rebounds - yeah can afford that.
    Center - we need an experienced center, our rookies need a teacher, if there's anyone available who's tough enough and rebounds enough sign him for some good money and a multiple years contract, so our rookies can raise.
    + sign some solid role players to create more depth and we're a contender team.

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    Mafra....I agree with u 100%.... we need to build an Atlantic Division winner
    now, that could equally challenge Coach of the year and his MVP Rose (Bulls)
    in a 7 game series, by going full speed on Dec. 9th signing two decent FA in
    a crowded FA market frenzy.

    Putting a bunch of Star-Players on a roster at the same time lead to stars
    clashing with each other 8 out of 10 times. This is why David Robinson had
    Duncan move into his household, the Boston BIG-3 u always seen together in
    public throughout their two offseasons. And Lebron & Wade being each other
    shadow since the Lebron-Decision.

    After the Melo-trade.... Amare/Melo/Billups/and Dantoni clashed with one
    another on who is running this Knicks team. And in the last 8th months of
    No Knicks Basketball Amare/Melo/Billups stayed apart in different cities as
    if they been teammates on the same team the past 5 years.

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    Veteran LeFlume's Avatar
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    Forget The Clippers. No player in their right mind would wanna play for The Clippers. It ain't gonna happen. I know they have some young talent but how many times haven't you seen that?

    Every other year people talk about Clippers. They have never been able to keep anybody and I'm sure as soon Blake Griffins rookie contract is up he is outta there. A perennial crap team..

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    El Cacique portega1968's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LeFlume
    Forget The Clippers. No player in their right mind would wanna play for The Clippers. It ain't gonna happen. I know they have some young talent but how many times haven't you seen that?

    Every other year people talk about Clippers. They have never been able to keep anybody and I'm sure as soon Blake Griffins rookie contract is up he is outta there. A perennial crap team..
    If you put up a poll, my vote is for build now and not wait for Howard, Paul or Deron.

    But signing the current free agents isnt possible unless we get rid of Chauncey's cap space.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I eluded to precisely the same thing. That's a tantalizing package for anyone looking to turn around the franchise in the wake of its best players' departure.

    And a lottery pick is like a BJ in these scenarios.

    Apparently, the Clippers have kept Eric Gordon out of negotiations without some solid remark from Paul regarding his desire to extend.

    The GSW are also favored by the Hornets according to sources. I've come to hate that ****ing word! Sources - vomit
    That all makes sense except for one thing...

    CP3 WON'T sign an extension, he will opt out.

    Haven't we been down this road before? Isn't this deja vu?

    The purpose of the new CBA and owners stance is they don't want stars deciding where they want to go, and who they want to play with, ala MIA. They feel (rightfully so) that there is no parity, and the big market teams will always win-out. I.e. LAL, BOS, NY etc...

    The issue with this to me is that super stars have always sort of dictated where they go sooner or later. That's the result of no trade clauses and player options.

    CP3 is a star like all the others. He can decide where he wants to go ultimately. Teams can trade or rent him at the risk he will not resign with them, but in the end Paul will be where he wants, this or next season.

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    Nein, Mann! Weissenberg's Avatar
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    We all know Chris wants Knicks, the question is though: do the Knicks want Chris? Has anyone representing our front office ever publicly said: yes, we want to add Chris Paul?

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    I don't mind the idea of trying to win now and therefore getting the pieces we need rather than wait for another star. BUT knowing CP3 wants to come here is soo tempting and very hard to ignore.

    Lets not forget even though managment is banned from talking to players currently under contract, there has ALWAYS been communication through back channels. The agent gets the information and relays it to the player and then the player responds to the agent who then goes back to his reliable team source. Unless Stern pays for a major wire tap, there is no way to keep people from talking about contracts.

    Melo claims he never talked to CP3 about coming to NY...YEAH SURE we really all believe that one. Melo knows all of CP3's concerns and wants. He also knows what choices CP3 is willing to make for his future. You'll just NEVER hear it from him though. I do believe the organization is aware of it through Melo. This is why I lean toward being financially cautious in anticipation of CP3. That Melo smile just looks like he knows what's up.

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dzwonsson
    We all know Chris wants Knicks, the question is though: do the Knicks want Chris? Has anyone representing our front office ever publicly said: yes, we want to add Chris Paul?
    Knicks are only giving out 1 year deals. Do they REALLY need to come out and say that? C'mon man!

    Plus they can't make a comment like that regarding a player currently under contract.

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