We Now Need a Point Guard more than anything.

Who do think should start at POINT GUARD?


  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

NY17KNICKS

★Melo Mafia★
Breaking: Knicks wont include Douglas in trade for Crawford.

"A wign-and-trade that would bring Jamal Crawford back to the #Knicks would not include Toney Douglas in its current form, source says." Ken Berger
 

toNYknicks

Benchwarmer
Jamal Crawford is completely contradictory to the Tyson Chandler signing. We need a facilitator, defender, guard who can manage this offense. Jamal is none of these things! He's not the worst but damn were trying to move foward here!
 

Red

TYPE-A
Davis and Douglas are not equal. Even in Davis' worse years, he's still a 6 or 7 assist a night player. That's enuff with Melo and Stat on the court. Douglas can't facilitate.

And to the 2nd bolded piece, Crawford is a terrible defender, wut are you talking about? With Melo, Stat taking so many shots, how can we possibly fit in Crawford, a career 41% shooter? smh

I'm talking about this:

His assist numbers may not be so high, but one must remember he is coming off the bench, meaning most of the time he is on the court with other bench players. Therefore, as well as he may pass, he has lower percentage shooters on the court with him. His assist numbers will rise with experience and better players around him.

Something else to look at are his stats as a starter. Douglas has started 14 games in his career now. These are his career stats when he starts:

Min: 30.6

FG%: .499

3P%: .461


Jared Wickerham/Getty Images
REB: 3.3

AST: 3.8

STL: 1.3

PTS: 14.9

As one can see, his numbers significantly improve as a starter. He averages almost 10 more minutes and six more points per game when he starts. Every statistic improves when he starts. In these games his field goal and three-point percentages are fantastic..

In comparison, here are Chauncey Billups’ stats from his third season in the league. He started 41 of 45 games he played in:

Min: 33.1

FG%: .386

3P%: .362

REB: 2.1

AST: 3.8

STL: 1.0

PTS: 13.9

Could Toney Douglas be a sufficient starter for the Knicks in 2012-2013?
Yes
No
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Though we have a smaller sample size for Douglas, we see that in 14 starts over his first two seasons so far, he has better numbers than Billups had in his third year. This is not to say that Douglas will become a superstar, but Billups is more than a respectable player in the league.

and in Baron Davis case...

he avg. 14 & 6.

With Bibby signed seems MOA would rather have a facilitator and a better option at the two and keep Fileds on the bench than take a chance at waiting to see if Davis is available

getting value for TD knowing he has a $2m team option coming up, replacing Fields, and still having a PG that will look to pass or hit the open 3 if necessary.

Not to mention TD is coming off an injury. Healthy though as far as defense goes Baron had 16 steals in 44 games with CLE, TD had 89 steals last year, so TD is probably better while being less expensive. Baron better offensive (at the point) TD not far behind (unless we just concentrate on assists), TD the better defender. Equal in my opinion considering everything.

Baron is the better PG, but TD has experience in this system. Is he worth it?

BTW, I think Crawford can guard the point.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
Depends on how this trade will look like, if we won't give up too much I'm okay about having Crawford back, probably we're about to trade Walker/Balkman and that would be a good deal.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Does that mean Fields is part of the deal?

I got a feeling that Bibby is MOA's new Duhon. :cool:
 

Red

TYPE-A
Nope, sources are saying Shawne Williams :eek:hboy:

humm... the only reason for this is a lowering of expectations for Fields. Crawford has to start over Fields, and therefor Bibby or TD will be at the point.

Having Shump added isn't a bad problem to have, especially since Mike has a penchant for improving guards.

Bibby, Crawford, TD, Shump, Fields

Not bad... what can't they do? Passing, shooting, defense, size, speed, experience, etc..
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Shawne Williams for Jamal? DONE!

Let's throw in season courtside tickets, too.

Kblack's point that Crawford won't be relied on is paramount:

i) Crawford won't be compelled to go into shooting binges

ii) If Crawford does, he can be quickly yanked and cooled down, and we go to any number of our other scoring titans.

Either way, barring a legit Point Guard being signed, MDA is still going to orchestrate our offense to be run directly through Melo to some degree.

ie, if we got Crawford, and started him at the 1, it's not like he will be asked to execute a traditional PG role.

Fields and Crawford are both better suited for 6th man type roles in my opinion, regardless; with Crawford being able to come in at the 1 and 2, and Fields the 2 and 3.

Crawford was also another victim of Isiah. Crawford heaving up shots ad naseum, as games closed out especially, was because Thomas was specifically having the offense run through him as if he was Carmelo Anthony.....Who we actually now have, incidentally.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Let's throw in season courtside tickets, too.

Kblack's point that Crawford won't be relied on is paramount:

i) Crawford won't be compelled to go into shooting binges

ii) If Crawford does, he can be quickly yanked and cooled down, and we go to any number of our other scoring titans.

Either way, barring a legit Point Guard being signed, MDA is still going to orchestrate our offense to be run directly through Melo to some degree.

ie, if we got Crawford, and started him at the 1, it's not like he will be asked to execute a traditional PG role.

Fields and Crawford are both better suited for 6th man type roles in my opinion, regardless; with Crawford being able to come in at the 1 and 2, and Fields the 2 and 3.

Crawford was also another victim of Isiah. Crawford heaving up shots ad naseum, as games closed out especially, was because Thomas was specifically having the offense run through him as if he was Carmelo Anthony.....Who we actually now have, incidentally.

Exactly -

We won't need Crawford to score in bunches like in his last stint - and he can be an effective PG when used in that role. With Melo and Amare, Crawford provides a presence at the 1 that can help create shots for our scorers OR could score himself.
 

NY17KNICKS

★Melo Mafia★
Sounds like now that TD isnt in the deal people want him. Im all for it, as of now the Knicks are in real talk with him and the Hawks but he is still considering the Pacers. Also havent heard anything new on JJ Barea so I think its safe to say we're not getting him
 

CuseGirl

Benchwarmer
Exactly -

We won't need Crawford to score in bunches like in his last stint - and he can be an effective PG when used in that role. With Melo and Amare, Crawford provides a presence at the 1 that can help create shots for our scorers OR could score himself.

he's not a point guard.....why is this being ignored.....he just ISNT a point guard. he's a shooter and an inefficient one at that. and he's been like that with every team he's ever played for. Why are we expecting that on a team with Melo and Amare, 2 shot hogs, that he will suddenly help this team become more efficient. It's not about scoring points, it's about scoring with the least amount of tries......In all of his "stints", he's been a scorer off the bench at the expense of efficiency.....

nevermind the fact that he's an awful defender, but lets not let facts get in the way of a chucker....
 

skisloper

Starter
he's not a point guard.....why is this being ignored.....he just ISNT a point guard. he's a shooter and an inefficient one at that. and he's been like that with every team he's ever played for. Why are we expecting that on a team with Melo and Amare, 2 shot hogs, that he will suddenly help this team become more efficient. It's not about scoring points, it's about scoring with the least amount of tries......In all of his "stints", he's been a scorer off the bench at the expense of efficiency.....

nevermind the fact that he's an awful defender, but lets not let facts get in the way of a chucker....

AMEN TO THAT.....WE HAVE ZERO NEED TO AQUIRE JAMAL.....


****unless he will be traded with Fields for better *****
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
We do need a true 3rd scorer and Crawford can be that for us, IDK why guys are saying this is bad he can spot up, create for himself, run the PnR, pull up and push the ball on the break
 

skisloper

Starter
We do need a true 3rd scorer and Crawford can be that for us, IDK why guys are saying this is bad he can spot up, create for himself, run the PnR, pull up and push the ball on the break

Tony Douglas can do the same and play defense.....

crawford does NOT PLAY DEFENSE.....

We will NEVER win a title with guys who cannot defend.

Melo and Amare stepped up in the playoffs on both ends...
Crawfors did not do that for Atlanta
 

KBlack25

Starter
he's not a point guard.....why is this being ignored.....he just ISNT a point guard. he's a shooter and an inefficient one at that. and he's been like that with every team he's ever played for. Why are we expecting that on a team with Melo and Amare, 2 shot hogs, that he will suddenly help this team become more efficient. It's not about scoring points, it's about scoring with the least amount of tries......In all of his "stints", he's been a scorer off the bench at the expense of efficiency.....

nevermind the fact that he's an awful defender, but lets not let facts get in the way of a chucker....

Crawford ran the point for the Knicks and at times for the Hawks. He is a good passer, and is, for the fourteen thousandth time (which I am sure you will ignore), most effective as a player when he does not need to be relied on to score in bunches. That will be the case in NY.

In the playoffs last year, Crawford's opposition shot less than 40% from the field. The capability is there.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Tony Douglas can do the same and play defense.....

crawford does NOT PLAY DEFENSE.....

We will NEVER win a title with guys who cannot defend.

Melo and Amare stepped up in the playoffs on both ends...
Crawfors did not do that for Atlanta

Douglas is injured and got burned by Delonte West in the playoffs. Crawford actually played solid defense in the playoffs.
 

skisloper

Starter
Crawford ran the point for the Knicks and at times for the Hawks. He is a good passer, and is, for the fourteen thousandth time (which I am sure you will ignore), most effective as a player when he does not need to be relied on to score in bunches. That will be the case in NY.

In the playoffs last year, Crawford's opposition shot less than 40% from the field. The capability is there.

so why Crawford over douglas ?
what is the reasoning ....unless the coaches feel douglas is not fully recovered from his shoulder surgeries
 

KBlack25

Starter
so why Crawford over douglas ?
what is the reasoning ....unless the coaches feel douglas is not fully recovered from his shoulder surgeries

1) He had surgery
2) Crawford has proven he can be an effective player in the league game-in and game-out
3) Douglas is overrated on defense - he takes a ton of chances and got manhandled by Delonte West
4) Douglas has not shown he has the passing ability, meanwhile I think they believe (and I believe) Crawford does - Eddy Curry's best season is largely attributed to Crawford's ability to distribute.
 
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