View Poll Results: Who do think should start at POINT GUARD?

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  • Mike Bibby

    3 11.54%
  • Toney Douglas

    10 38.46%
  • Baron Davis

    5 19.23%
  • JJ Barea

    1 3.85%
  • Jamal Crawford

    2 7.69%
  • Iman Shumpert

    3 11.54%
  • Doesn't matter, Melo will play Point Forward

    2 7.69%
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Thread: We Now Need a Point Guard more than anything.

  1. #16
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Crawford took a lot of shots as a Knick, because he had to. His passing ability, however, is pretty underrated. I think Crawford can be a better facilitator at the 1 (which he played for us in spurts) than people are giving him credit for.

  2. #17
    Member CuseGirl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Crawford took a lot of shots as a Knick, because he had to. His passing ability, however, is pretty underrated. I think Crawford can be a better facilitator at the 1 (which he played for us in spurts) than people are giving him credit for.
    3.9 assists per game for his career and a 41% shooter. I dont want him.

  3. #18
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CuseGirl
    3.9 assists per game for his career and a 41% shooter. I dont want him.
    Eddy Curry had his best season as a Knick catching slashes from Crawford - APG is not as important as APM - he was near 5 when he was getting starter minutes and those numbers reduced drastically when he came off the bench for Atlanta as a guy who was asked to score.

  4. #19
    Member CuseGirl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Eddy Curry had his best season as a Knick catching slashes from Crawford - APG is not as important as APM - he was near 5 when he was getting starter minutes and those numbers reduced drastically when he came off the bench for Atlanta as a guy who was asked to score.
    now we're going way back to when we didnt win.......

    Crawford is a bad idea, it's not just a numbers thing. Do you kno how often a bad shot leads to an easy basket for the opposing team? Crawford has nearly perfected it. It's bad enuff Melo is 47% inside the 3 pt line, we dont need Crawford out there dropping 40 one night and then 3, 6, 4, and 8 for the next 4 games.

  5. #20
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CuseGirl
    now we're going way back to when we didnt win.......

    Crawford is a bad idea, it's not just a numbers thing. Do you kno how often a bad shot leads to an easy basket for the opposing team? Crawford has nearly perfected it. It's bad enuff Melo is 47% inside the 3 pt line, we dont need Crawford out there dropping 40 one night and then 3, 6, 4, and 8 for the next 4 games.
    But they aren't asking Crawford to drop 40, ever. They have plenty of scoring with Melo and Stat. Crawford was effective not being asked to score and being a third option as a Hawk.

    47% inside the 3 point line for a SF is a great shooting percentage.

  6. #21
    ★Melo Mafia★ NY17KNICKS's Avatar
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    Breaking: Knicks wont include Douglas in trade for Crawford.

    "A wign-and-trade that would bring Jamal Crawford back to the #Knicks would not include Toney Douglas in its current form, source says." Ken Berger

  7. #22
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    Jamal Crawford is completely contradictory to the Tyson Chandler signing. We need a facilitator, defender, guard who can manage this offense. Jamal is none of these things! He's not the worst but damn were trying to move foward here!

  8. #23
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CuseGirl
    Davis and Douglas are not equal. Even in Davis' worse years, he's still a 6 or 7 assist a night player. That's enuff with Melo and Stat on the court. Douglas can't facilitate.

    And to the 2nd bolded piece, Crawford is a terrible defender, wut are you talking about? With Melo, Stat taking so many shots, how can we possibly fit in Crawford, a career 41% shooter? smh
    I'm talking about this:

    His assist numbers may not be so high, but one must remember he is coming off the bench, meaning most of the time he is on the court with other bench players. Therefore, as well as he may pass, he has lower percentage shooters on the court with him. His assist numbers will rise with experience and better players around him.

    Something else to look at are his stats as a starter. Douglas has started 14 games in his career now. These are his career stats when he starts:

    Min: 30.6

    FG%: .499

    3P%: .461


    Jared Wickerham/Getty Images
    REB: 3.3

    AST: 3.8

    STL: 1.3

    PTS: 14.9

    As one can see, his numbers significantly improve as a starter. He averages almost 10 more minutes and six more points per game when he starts. Every statistic improves when he starts. In these games his field goal and three-point percentages are fantastic..

    In comparison, here are Chauncey Billups’ stats from his third season in the league. He started 41 of 45 games he played in:

    Min: 33.1

    FG%: .386

    3P%: .362

    REB: 2.1

    AST: 3.8

    STL: 1.0

    PTS: 13.9

    Could Toney Douglas be a sufficient starter for the Knicks in 2012-2013?
    Yes
    No
    Submit Vote vote to see results
    Though we have a smaller sample size for Douglas, we see that in 14 starts over his first two seasons so far, he has better numbers than Billups had in his third year. This is not to say that Douglas will become a superstar, but Billups is more than a respectable player in the league.
    and in Baron Davis case...

    he avg. 14 & 6.

    With Bibby signed seems MOA would rather have a facilitator and a better option at the two and keep Fileds on the bench than take a chance at waiting to see if Davis is available

    getting value for TD knowing he has a $2m team option coming up, replacing Fields, and still having a PG that will look to pass or hit the open 3 if necessary.

    Not to mention TD is coming off an injury. Healthy though as far as defense goes Baron had 16 steals in 44 games with CLE, TD had 89 steals last year, so TD is probably better while being less expensive. Baron better offensive (at the point) TD not far behind (unless we just concentrate on assists), TD the better defender. Equal in my opinion considering everything.

    Baron is the better PG, but TD has experience in this system. Is he worth it?

    BTW, I think Crawford can guard the point.

  9. #24
    Nein, Mann! Weissenberg's Avatar
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    Depends on how this trade will look like, if we won't give up too much I'm okay about having Crawford back, probably we're about to trade Walker/Balkman and that would be a good deal.

  10. #25
    ★Melo Mafia★ NY17KNICKS's Avatar
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    Keeping Toney Douglas and getting Crawford in the current deal? I'll take it!

  11. #26
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    Does that mean Fields is part of the deal?

    I got a feeling that Bibby is MOA's new Duhon.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Does that mean Fields is part of the deal?

    I got a feeling that Bibby is MOA's new Duhon.
    Nope, sources are saying Shawne Williams

  13. #28
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NY17KNICKS
    Nope, sources are saying Shawne Williams
    Shawne Williams for Jamal? DONE!

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by NY17KNICKS
    Nope, sources are saying Shawne Williams
    humm... the only reason for this is a lowering of expectations for Fields. Crawford has to start over Fields, and therefor Bibby or TD will be at the point.

    Having Shump added isn't a bad problem to have, especially since Mike has a penchant for improving guards.

    Bibby, Crawford, TD, Shump, Fields

    Not bad... what can't they do? Passing, shooting, defense, size, speed, experience, etc..

  15. #30
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Shawne Williams for Jamal? DONE!
    Let's throw in season courtside tickets, too.

    Kblack's point that Crawford won't be relied on is paramount:

    i) Crawford won't be compelled to go into shooting binges

    ii) If Crawford does, he can be quickly yanked and cooled down, and we go to any number of our other scoring titans.

    Either way, barring a legit Point Guard being signed, MDA is still going to orchestrate our offense to be run directly through Melo to some degree.

    ie, if we got Crawford, and started him at the 1, it's not like he will be asked to execute a traditional PG role.

    Fields and Crawford are both better suited for 6th man type roles in my opinion, regardless; with Crawford being able to come in at the 1 and 2, and Fields the 2 and 3.

    Crawford was also another victim of Isiah. Crawford heaving up shots ad naseum, as games closed out especially, was because Thomas was specifically having the offense run through him as if he was Carmelo Anthony.....Who we actually now have, incidentally.

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