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Thread: STAT Has No Interest In Baron Davis: "We don't need setbacks"

  1. #31
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Baron and Iverson would be better.

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    Default Peja Stojakovic

    How about Peja Stojakovic. What is his situation? He would be a decent replacement for Shawne Williams.

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    So....after the first real game of the season what do you guys think?

    Our defense was as bad as last season imo....we allowed them about 20 layups, 30 offensive rebounds and another average PF (Brandon Bass) had a career night against us.

    I think Stoudemire will never be a decent defender...all the talk about defense in the offseason and he still was our worst defender out there and he's playing soft on ofense, settling for three pointers and 18 feet fadeaway jumpers.....Charles Oakley is so right about STAT, he's not a championship player.

    Melo was sensational, our true franchise player. It wasn't all about his offense, his defense was pretty good aswell and he fought like a lion, Melo is a true championship caliber player!

    If we don't win the championship this year, it will be because of Stoudemire. Sorry to say this and I'm well aware you guys don't want to hear that, but that's the way it is. I gave him this offseason to improve his defense, but it's the same old garbage he's been doing last season.

    If he doesn't want to sacrifice his body he'll better get into poker or chess.
    He has the body and ability to really dominate, but he's taking the easy way out by not playing defense and taking jumpers on offense instead of posting up.

    Amar'e = Lebron, ultra talented, ultra loud, no heart of a champion.

    Iverson at 5'11 had more heart than both of them combined.

    I can't believe we're discussing softness in basketball...it's not even football, it's freaking basketball! The dude is 6'10 260 lbs...what is he afraid of?

    I know he brought the Knicks back and all that, but that doesn't protect him from criticism. I wouldn't actually criticise him if it was about his ability, like Jeffries on offense, the guy doesn't have the talent, but he's fighting and hustling and that's all you want as a fan.

    Amar'e on the other hand hs all the talent in the world, but ain't ready to fight and sacrifice himself.....he lacks the heart of a champion, that Kobe has, Jordan has, Iverson has, Willis Reed etc.

    Melo fought several times since becoming a Knick....kudos to him.

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    Nein, Mann! Weissenberg's Avatar
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    I saw some progress and team's effort to improve their defense. Remember that coach Woodson and Tyson started working with our boys less than three weeks ago. We'll be struggling on the defensive throughout the first weeks of the season. Do you remember the Heat getting together last season? We chased them until they started getting used to each other and became "unchasable" sealing the second seed and making their run to the finals. Chandler keeps working with Amare, Davis works with Toney/Imax and Woodson runs our defense. We'll be fine.

    edit: some words on Amare's offense; he's a pick and roll junkie and we don't have a decent point guard able to be swishing and dishing, so STAT could start outmuscling and outhustling. Toney's good at duping and hooping, but we need a PG with ability of wheeling and dealing!
    Last edited by Weissenberg; Dec 27, 2011 at 10:18.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dzwonsson
    I saw some progress and team's effort to improve their defense. Remember that coach Woodson and Tyson started working with our boys less than three weeks ago. We'll be struggling on the defensive throughout the first weeks of the season. Do you remember the Heat getting together last season? We chased them until they started getting used to each other and became "unchasable" sealing the second seed and making their run to the finals. Chandler keeps working with Amare, Davis works with Toney/Imax and Woodson runs our defense. We'll be fine.

    edit: some words on Amare's offense; he's a pick and roll junkie and we don't have a decent point guard able to be swishing and dishing, so STAT could start outmuscling and outhustling. Toney's good at duping and hooping, but we need a PG with ability of wheeling and dealing!
    So you're saying you want Walt Frazier as our starting PG? I do too.

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    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    So you're saying you want Walt Frazier as our starting PG? I do too.
    lmao hahaha epic

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    So....after the first real game of the season what do you guys think?

    Our defense was as bad as last season imo....we allowed them about 20 layups, 30 offensive rebounds and another average PF (Brandon Bass) had a career night against us.

    I think Stoudemire will never be a decent defender...all the talk about defense in the offseason and he still was our worst defender out there and he's playing soft on ofense, settling for three pointers and 18 feet fadeaway jumpers.....Charles Oakley is so right about STAT, he's not a championship player.

    Melo was sensational, our true franchise player. It wasn't all about his offense, his defense was pretty good aswell and he fought like a lion, Melo is a true championship caliber player!

    If we don't win the championship this year, it will be because of Stoudemire. Sorry to say this and I'm well aware you guys don't want to hear that, but that's the way it is. I gave him this offseason to improve his defense, but it's the same old garbage he's been doing last season.

    If he doesn't want to sacrifice his body he'll better get into poker or chess.
    He has the body and ability to really dominate, but he's taking the easy way out by not playing defense and taking jumpers on offense instead of posting up.

    Amar'e = Lebron, ultra talented, ultra loud, no heart of a champion.

    Iverson at 5'11 had more heart than both of them combined.

    I can't believe we're discussing softness in basketball...it's not even football, it's freaking basketball! The dude is 6'10 260 lbs...what is he afraid of?

    I know he brought the Knicks back and all that, but that doesn't protect him from criticism. I wouldn't actually criticise him if it was about his ability, like Jeffries on offense, the guy doesn't have the talent, but he's fighting and hustling and that's all you want as a fan.

    Amar'e on the other hand hs all the talent in the world, but ain't ready to fight and sacrifice himself.....he lacks the heart of a champion, that Kobe has, Jordan has, Iverson has, Willis Reed etc.

    Melo fought several times since becoming a Knick....kudos to him.
    I totally disagree with this. This is the type of post that makes Knick fans look dumb and undeservedly spoiled.

    So now we must focus on STAT as a "weak link"? Smh

    The guy who broke Ewings 30pt consecutive game record? Really? You DO realize without STAT we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Because we would still be in wait and see mode.

    Further, you do realize defense is a TEAM concept? And that Stat almost singlehandedly gave Garnett the business last post-season? Rewind the tape of game one and take a look into Garnett's eyes... that was fear. And IF STAT hadn't made that mistake in the pre-game, which the results are a testiment to his value, I think we all know what the difference was he made.

    But lastly, what are you beefing about? Too much (or too easy) penetration by Rondo? Guess who that starts with? I'll give you a hint:

    His stats or value was/is nowhere near STAT'S... but seven points in 34mins don't warrant a reaction of soft from you?

    His name is BAMBI FIELDS! Where is your mention of him or the other "combo-guard" who can do everything but what we need at PG.... Toney Douglas? Where?
    This dude mind as well change his name to Rajon Rondo Jr., the way he was being soned.

    If STAT is soft- these two are cotton candy baby **** left in the sun.... For FOUR days!

    Show us your bb IQ and put away the STAT hate...

    Direct your attention to the guys at the point and two who I reluctantly call "guards".
    Last edited by Red; Dec 27, 2011 at 12:38.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    I totally disagree with this. This is the type of post that makes Knick fans look dumb and undeservedly spoiled.

    So now we must focus on STAT as a "weak link"? Smh

    The guy who broke Ewings 30pt consecutive game record? Really? You DO realize without STAT we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Because we would still be in wait and see mode.

    Further, you do realize defense is a TEAM concept? And that Stat almost singlehandedly gave Garnett the business last post-season? Rewind the tape of game one and take a look into Garnett's eyes... that was fear. And IF STAT hadn't made that mistake in the pre-game, which the results are a testiment to his value, I think we all know what the difference was he made.

    But lastly, what are you beefing about? Too much (or too easy) penetration by Rondo? Guess who that starts with? I'll give you a hint:

    His stats or value was/is nowhere near STAT'S... but seven points in 34mins don't warrant a reaction of soft from you?

    His name is BAMBI FIELDS! Where is your mention of him or the other "combo-guard" who can do everything but what we need at PG.... Toney Douglas? Where?
    This dude mind as well change his name to Rajon Rondo Jr., the way he was being soned.

    If STAT is soft- these two are cotton candy baby **** left in the sun.... For FOUR days!

    Show us your bb IQ and put away the STAT hate...

    Direct your attention to the guys at the point and two who I reluctantly call "guards".
    stat put no effort into defense sunday. not acceptable.

  9. #39
    Nein, Mann! Weissenberg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    So you're saying you want Walt Frazier as our starting PG? I do too.
    Yeah, my point was even 66 years old Clyde would average more assists per game than Toney "Blind Shooter" Douglas.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    I totally disagree with this. This is the type of post that makes Knick fans look dumb and undeservedly spoiled.

    So now we must focus on STAT as a "weak link"? Smh

    The guy who broke Ewings 30pt consecutive game record? Really? You DO realize without STAT we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Because we would still be in wait and see mode.

    Further, you do realize defense is a TEAM concept? And that Stat almost singlehandedly gave Garnett the business last post-season? Rewind the tape of game one and take a look into Garnett's eyes... that was fear. And IF STAT hadn't made that mistake in the pre-game, which the results are a testiment to his value, I think we all know what the difference was he made.

    But lastly, what are you beefing about? Too much (or too easy) penetration by Rondo? Guess who that starts with? I'll give you a hint:

    His stats or value was/is nowhere near STAT'S... but seven points in 34mins don't warrant a reaction of soft from you?

    His name is BAMBI FIELDS! Where is your mention of him or the other "combo-guard" who can do everything but what we need at PG.... Toney Douglas? Where?
    This dude mind as well change his name to Rajon Rondo Jr., the way he was being soned.

    If STAT is soft- these two are cotton candy baby **** left in the sun.... For FOUR days!

    Show us your bb IQ and put away the STAT hate...

    Direct your attention to the guys at the point and two who I reluctantly call "guards".
    Weak post Red, why can't you accept criticism towards Stoudemire?

    I'm not a STAT hater like you said, I enjoyed his 'The Knicks are back' talking after he signed for us in 2010, BUT

    what good is a superstar with absolutely no talent(ability on defense?

    Kevin Martin is a 20+ scorer every season, but he's a horrible player imo and I would never build a team around him, because he doesn't play defense and he's not the kind of player that wins championships.

    Before you get hot again, I'm not comparing Stoudemire to Kevin Martin, it was just an example.

    And to get back to your criticism of Fields and Douglas: I've been one of Field's biggest critics since the Playoff sweep last spring. The player (not the person) Landry Fields has been called out more than once by me,

    Toney Douglas is by no means soft! I don't know what games you were watching the past 16 months, but Toney is never afraid of contact, hustling or playing with injuries. His brother was/is on the Atlanta Falcons roster - Toney comes fom a football background, like Iverson. He's by no means soft.

    And btw: THis was about Amar'e and not our guards, everybody knows that we lack a good passing PG and a better 2-guard, but that was not the topic of this discussion.

    It was Amar'e who was talking about defense and 'doing everything neccessary to win' all summer long....this guy is talking too much for somebody who hasn't won anything yet.

    With CHandler you know that he'll stand his ground on defense after all that talking by him, but almost every power forward we're facing has a career game against Amar'e.

    I'll never forget how Hickson, Samardo Samuels and Amir Johnson looked like Moses Malone against Amar'e last season.

    I think it should be allowed amongst Knick fans to discuss an criticise a player, even if it's one of our superstars.

    I'm a Knick fan first and foremost and not a Stoudemire fan.

    Isn't it somewhat alarming that he's pretty ineffective on offense and playing like a small forward when there is no good pick and roll point guard around? He was beasting offensively under Nash and very good with Felton, but since then his offense isn't the same either.

    It's not hate, it's just worrying me, because 18 feet jumpers, no defense and three pointers with some dribble penetration from a 6'10 guy is basically Gallo.....Gallo for $20 million a year....that was Stoudemire's game in the last 20 or so games for us.

    I as a Knick fan hope for better defense from my 6'10 team captain. And better rebounding wouldn't hurt either for a guy that athletic.....on offense he could atleast try a few turnaround post moves. He's bragging so much about his great footwork, why not using it in the paint, like Blake Griffin does. He needs to stop playing like a small forward.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by amazinz5
    stat put no effort into defense sunday. not acceptable.
    IF STAT put in no effort then what do you call what TD & Fields were doing while Rondo was on his way to a triple- double?

    Let's get our priorities straight. In no way am I saying STAT is a defensive stalwart but c'mon, he can't do everything.

    And before I fault STAT, a guy who was efficient and added 20+ points on the board, I'm looking at the guy who avg. < (less than) 2 f*cking points in the playoffs!

    This back-court is non-existent. Stop or slow the penetration for Christ sakes! At the least STAT brings something to the table. Landry is wasted space as far as I'm concerned.

    He is shook, can't be relied on, and can't guard is position. Remind me why he is a starter.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    IF STAT put in no effort then what do you call what TD & Fields were doing while Rondo was on his way to a triple- double?

    Let's get our priorities straight. In no way am I saying STAT is a defensive stalwart but c'mon, he can't do everything.

    And before I fault STAT, a guy who was efficient and added 20+ points on the board, I'm looking at the guy who avg. < (less than) 2 f*cking points in the playoffs!

    This back-court is non-existent. Stop or slow the penetration for Christ sakes! At the least STAT brings something to the table. Landry is wasted space as far as I'm concerned.

    He is shook, can't be relied on, and can't guard is position. Remind me why he is a starter.

    But Landry Fields is not our 6'10 260 lbs - every day braggin - team captain nd superstar who gets paied $20 million a year. He's a second round pick, sophomore and earning about $800k a year. We could waive him any time without a problem.

    STAT has to be compared to other max contract guys and superstars in the league.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Weak post Red, why can't you accept criticism towards Stoudemire?

    I'm not a STAT hater like you said, I enjoyed his 'The Knicks are back' talking after he signed for us in 2010, BUT

    what good is a superstar with absolutely no talent(ability on defense?

    Kevin Martin is a 20+ scorer every season, but he's a horrible player imo and I would never build a team around him, because he doesn't play defense and he's not the kind of player that wins championships.

    Before you get hot again, I'm not comparing Stoudemire to Kevin Martin, it was just an example.

    And to get back to your criticism of Fields and Douglas: I've been one of Field's biggest critics since the Playoff sweep last spring. The player (not the person) Landry Fields has been called out more than once by me,

    Toney Douglas is by no means soft! I don't know what games you were watching the past 16 months, but Toney is never afraid of contact, hustling or playing with injuries. His brother was/is on the Atlanta Falcons roster - Toney comes fom a football background, like Iverson. He's by no means soft.

    And btw: THis was about Amar'e and not our guards, everybody knows that we lack a good passing PG and a better 2-guard, but that was not the topic of this discussion.

    It was Amar'e who was talking about defense and 'doing everything neccessary to win' all summer long....this guy is talking too much for somebody who hasn't won anything yet.

    With CHandler you know that he'll stand his ground on defense after all that talking by him, but almost every power forward we're facing has a career game against Amar'e.

    I'll never forget how Hickson, Samardo Samuels and Amir Johnson looked like Moses Malone against Amar'e last season.

    I think it should be allowed amongst Knick fans to discuss an criticise a player, even if it's one of our superstars.

    I'm a Knick fan first and foremost and not a Stoudemire fan.

    Isn't it somewhat alarming that he's pretty ineffective on offense and playing like a small forward when there is no good pick and roll point guard around? He was beasting offensively under Nash and very good with Felton, but since then his offense isn't the same either.

    It's not hate, it's just worrying me, because 18 feet jumpers, no defense and three pointers with some dribble penetration from a 6'10 guy is basically Gallo.....Gallo for $20 million a year....that was Stoudemire's game in the last 20 or so games for us.

    I as a Knick fan hope for better defense from my 6'10 team captain. And better rebounding wouldn't hurt either for a guy that athletic.....on offense he could atleast try a few turnaround post moves. He's bragging so much about his great footwork, why not using it in the paint, like Blake Griffin does. He needs to stop playing like a small forward.
    I'm not hot, I just dont understand how could we possibly focus on STAT with what he brings vs Fields or Douglas?

    Stat was our whole defese last year. He was our big man! No center hello! And that was while he led us in scoring.

    An after one game- with a new teammate and center? Smh you don't think defense needs time to gel? Wake up! Yeah guys had career days when STAT was forced to play out of position and dudes like Shawn Williams were manning the four. MOA had Wilson Chandler manning the four! What did you think would happen?

    And again, its cool that you think he's soft, but relative to YOUR soft-meter, what does that make Fields and TD?

    Plying with injuries makes you hard? Please, you think TD was the only one playing with injuries?

    And TD is hard? Have you not noticed his inability to finish at the rim? Have you not noticed his self-induced flop? Rewind the tape(s), watch when TD drives, i'd bet 80% of the time he winds up on the floor with little to no contact. That's hard?

    How about his showing in the post-season when he had the deer in headlights look while Rondo put up ALL TIME NUMBERS on him- and that was AT his natural position!

    Like I said above, sure STAT isn't Chamberlin, but relative to Jared Jeffries, and our point and shooting players (purposely neglected the word guard", how can we even mention STAT and be complaning? Really? Not No show Fields? Not Rondos son TD? Stat?

    C'mon maaaaaaan!

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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    But Landry Fields is not our 6'10 260 lbs - every day braggin - team captain nd superstar who gets paied $20 million a year. He's a second round pick, sophomore and earning about $800k a year. We could waive him any time without a problem.

    STAT has to be compared to other max contract guys and superstars in the league.
    Everyday braggin'? Idk what you mean.

    If you mean making statements... that's called leadership/intangibles. Are you questioning that from Stat too?

    Ridiculousness.

    What does pay haveto do with anything? They all are starters right? On the NBA professional Knicks right? Is it if we pay you more you have to play defense? Nope?

    Its the more you do the more we'll pay you. Stat gets paid more because what he does has more value.

    Now why aren't Fields and TD paid or valued? Because they're young, low draft picks, who fly under the radar because a STAT is a leader willing to shoulder the blame. How much does that cost?

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    Let's just leave it like that bro.

    No point in arguing between fans of the same team.

    You've got your oppinion on Stoudemire, I got mine.

    It's ok.

    I'm a Knick fan and I'll always support our team.

    I don't enjoy criticizing our players, trust me!

    I hope we can win a championship and I'll cry in joy should that ever happen, but I don't think Stoudemire is a championship player when talking about superstars/franchise players, but so is Nowitzki and Dallas still won a title, so nothing is impossible I guess.

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