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Thread: STAT Has No Interest In Baron Davis: "We don't need setbacks"

  1. #46
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    @ Red, and Sprewell-Houston, i love the back and forth, and you both make great point.But i think you are both right, i saw STAT get a little lazy at times on second efforts buy the Celts, but it looked like he was frustrated because rondo kept beating his man of the dribble so easily.I think we need much better perimeter defenders as tony D is a turnstile, and so is Fields, it must be frustrating having guys run wild through the paint.D'antoni has to come up with much better defensive schemes, because or team D looked Horrible.Just my 2 cent.

  2. #47
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Landry is wasted space as far as I'm concerned.

    He is shook, can't be relied on, and can't guard is position. Remind me why he is a starter.
    As you yourself pointed out, he is a starter because we haven't got anyone more talented. It's as easy as that. But that does not mean that he is a waste of space. I also cannot agree with you that he is shook. He didn't make all of them, but as far as I could see, he took the open shots he was given by Boston's defence. I guess that is what he has been asked to do. Also you should not forget Fields' rebounding abilities. In the long run this could turn out to be a huge asset, especially if we can manage to get the fastbreak going. Another aspect you should take into consideration is that a player's sophomore season is usually worse than his rookie season, as opposing teams get used to their style of play.

    Just give the guy a break, he is a down-to-earth, hard-working player who knows his role, his abilities and limitations. He will turn out to be a good role player for us and with Chandler and Melo on the floor that might be exactly what we are going to need.

    When LJ came to New York many people criticised him as his points and rebounding numbers decreased compared to his Charlotte Hornets days. Nobody noticed that his assists went up and even less so did people recognise the little things he did for the team.

    Fields -- by no means -- is Larry Johnson but just as with Johnson, his role changed completely with Melo in NY. He was taken out of is comfort zone. He will have to find a new one and I believe sooner or later we will see exactly that.

    Also your post on Douglas essentially is saying that Douglas is not as good as Rondo. Not a big surprise really. As much as I hate Rondo's demeanour, I have to say that he knows how to get to the basket. That is a well-established fact around the league. On Christmas day he was actually making mid-range jumpers after pick-and-pop plays. Firstly, nobody had that on their scouting report, secondly if that turns out to be a consistent shot ,we will see his numbers going up even more, regardless of who will play against him.

    And finally comparing Douglas to Rondo (today) isn't accurate. Being put into the driver's seat of a team with two ball-hungry forwards who rely on completely different styles of play (pick-and-role vs. iso-offence) does not come close to the situation Rondo is in now. He has managed to establish himself over five years in the league. When the big three in Boston were first put together, there were serious doubts whether he could handle the situation, just as there is with Douglas in New York. Additionally, the styles of play of Garnett, Pierce and Allen fit together much better than Chandler's, Anthony's and Stoudemire's.

    If you could choose between the starting jobs of Rondo in 07/08 and Douglas in 11/12, which one would you pick (regardless of the fact that 08 would mean playing for the Celtics)?

    All that being said, we will find out how good/bad Douglas is once Bibby/Davis had their go at running the point. If they can deliver, I will eat my words. However, from what I have seen over the three games so far, I would not want to be in the man's shoes.

  3. #48
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    As you yourself pointed out, he is a starter because we haven't got anyone more talented. It's as easy as that. But that does not mean that he is a waste of space. I also cannot agree with you that he is shook. He didn't make all of them, but as far as I could see, he took the open shots he was given by Boston's defence. I guess that is what he has been asked to do. Also you should not forget Fields' rebounding abilities. In the long run this could turn out to be a huge asset, especially if we can manage to get the fastbreak going. Another aspect you should take into consideration is that a player's sophomore season is usually worse than his rookie season, as opposing teams get used to their style of play.

    Just give the guy a break, he is a down-to-earth, hard-working player who knows his role, his abilities and limitations. He will turn out to be a good role player for us and with Chandler and Melo on the floor that might be exactly what we are going to need.

    When LJ came to New York many people criticised him as his points and rebounding numbers decreased compared to his Charlotte Hornets days. Nobody noticed that his assists went up and even less so did people recognise the little things he did for the team.

    Fields -- by no means -- is Larry Johnson but just as with Johnson, his role changed completely with Melo in NY. He was taken out of is comfort zone. He will have to find a new one and I believe sooner or later we will see exactly that.
    Fields just needs to reestablish his confidence. My main issue is this though...

    sure he's not a leader, sure his scoring isn't in high demand, and evidently he's a hustle guy/role player type, thats cool... he's a get-in-where-you-fit-in type of player in that type of situation, thats cool.

    But to me sports is almost all about confidence (and talent of course). He had the confidence when there were no expectations; none for him or us. But when the lights were on, he faded, meaning he displayed a lack of mental make-up or toughness.

    That can change, but the situation that he found himself in (the playoffs, on a playoff starved team) is hard to duplicate. In other words, we got a chance to see the true him in the perfect situation. And he folded.

    Now the situation is different, and confidence is still needed. But actually another element is in demand (not just fitting in) and thats defense. If you're going to be a role guy, and we don't expect you to score- then guess what...

    YOU AT LEAST MUST BE ABLE TO GUARD YOUR POSITION. If you can't do that, then what do I have you out there for? What's the point?

    If Fields wanted to continue to fit-in, he would've done every conceivable thing to step up his defense and bring that to the table. Whether specific training or losing weight. To say at the least, I'm not going to let an Allen or Wade destroy us while I'm not doing anything... ya know?

    But without the confidence, the drive to be better; with this i don't know where I fit in attitude- he's wasting our time by being there until someone better comes along. Fields shouldn't need a coach or anyone to tell him that IF he can play defense he will fit in fine. He should have figured that out. He is a Stanford grad.

    Originally Posted by pat
    Also your post on Douglas essentially is saying that Douglas is not as good as Rondo. Not a big surprise really. As much as I hate Rondo's demeanour, I have to say that he knows how to get to the basket. That is a well-established fact around the league. On Christmas day he was actually making mid-range jumpers after pick-and-pop plays. Firstly, nobody had that on their scouting report, secondly if that turns out to be a consistent shot ,we will see his numbers going up even more, regardless of who will play against him.

    And finally comparing Douglas to Rondo (today) isn't accurate. Being put into the driver's seat of a team with two ball-hungry forwards who rely on completely different styles of play (pick-and-role vs. iso-offence) does not come close to the situation Rondo is in now. He has managed to establish himself over five years in the league. When the big three in Boston were first put together, there were serious doubts whether he could handle the situation, just as there is with Douglas in New York. Additionally, the styles of play of Garnett, Pierce and Allen fit together much better than Chandler's, Anthony's and Stoudemire's.

    If you could choose between the starting jobs of Rondo in 07/08 and Douglas in 11/12, which one would you pick (regardless of the fact that 08 would mean playing for the Celtics)?

    All that being said, we will find out how good/bad Douglas is once Bibby/Davis had their go at running the point. If they can deliver, I will eat my words. However, from what I have seen over the three games so far, I would not want to be in the man's shoes.
    Yeah we know Rondo is better than Douglas- but this much better? Pistol Pete better?

    I mean is TD a former ACC DPOY? And really my point is in relation to STAT. Stat brings intangibles. Stat gets results. But I hate when a dude is <6'4 and is hell bent on being a shooter. WTF is that. Sure there are plenty of short two guards who were successful- just like there were ten times the amount of short dudes playing the point. And thats TD's natural position.

    He too should learn the art of playing defense. Does he and others like him (Nate Robinson) think they are needed to score points primarily; without being able to do what point guards do (facilitate)? That's ridiculous, yet because they scored at will before the NBA they believe they're the next Mike.

    I hold them accountable for their defense above STAT. Yeah STAT is a big of sorts, but again he's bringing something nightly. These two can't stop a nose bleed. And forget about finishing at the hoop and drawing fouls; something STAT is one of the best at...

    and we're here putting STAT under the microscope? Hello?

  4. #49
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    Originally Posted by Red
    YOU AT LEAST MUST BE ABLE TO GUARD YOUR POSITION. If you can't do that, then what do I have you out there for? What's the point?
    Before the trade he had to guard, bigger, stronger players (as Chandler had to defend the four). As far as I can see, defensively, he is more of a 3 than a 2. That's what I mean by giving him time to adjust to his new role. You can do only so much getting used to playing with Melo on defence when there is a lock-out going on.
    Originally Posted by Red
    Yeah we know Rondo is better than Douglas- but this much better? Pistol Pete better?
    If -- and we are in a particularly iffy area here -- he continues making that ugly mid-range jumper of his, I think yes, Pistol Pete better. He had 22-12-8 against the Heat. If you have to close out on him, he will beat you off the dribble any day.
    Last edited by pat; Dec 28, 2011 at 07:23.

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