Get back to this thread after 15-20 games.
Happy to have Davis on board for the min, and think Shump's and Douglas' roles will be determined/redefined by his play.
When Davis is playing, everything changes. Just because he was "cut", got signed for a "vet min" and played for some **** teams recently...I think our perception naturally isn't as "YES! WHAT A PICK UP!", as it should. This is on par with us bringing back Felton, IMHO, and with more upside in the playoffs especially.
Fields really **** the bed after Melo deal, and while Melo himself played a part, the dramatically altered (and slower) tempo of Billups was not a good thing. Baron is a high tempo leader, and not one with a major ego attached to that, who wants to act like a "Big Brother" to a fellow start player (*COUGH COUGH, Billups*). He also actually wanted to come play for us.
The hardest thing for a young guard to do is be a real distributor, leader, and have crunch time savvy.
Shumert & Co. will not be asked to do this with Baron at the helm.
Shumpert/Douglas/Fields is suddenly a three-headed beast of a rotation to be rotating in the SG slot, while also giving Baron some backup when it's not Bibby. Hell, we will prolly see Shumpert and Fields play some 3 this year to when it's advantageous to matchups!
Even then, Fat Baron with the Warriors was a MONSTER
Baron fits into the Knicks' offense way better than Billups did. I love Billups and think he's a great player, but at the end of the day this is a full-court team that should overwhelm other opponents with athleticism so let's DO IT!!!
Every team has the challenge of finding the right mix of talent; the optimal mix of offense & defense, size, etc...
When we analyze our roster, and take the data from the ladder part of last season with STAT & Melo, we can conclude:
1. We lacked size in the middle, thus we performed poorly on defense and on the boards; partly due to our size, and the consequences of our system.
We addressed this deficiency by signing Chandler.
2. Our system resulted in being 2nd in offense with STAT & Melo among the league leaders in scoring- obviously. Scoring was never the problem. Either by design, or virtue of chucking up a volume of shots, we scored.
Now with our current roster, and taking into account the many variables such as: players are more familiar, shortened season with many back-to-backs
...and with our front court set
we really only need to decide the right mix in the back-court.
Yeah we hope it's B-Diddy running the point, if not we have short-term options. That leaves us with the two.
Landry brings rebounding, spacing, and passing, but is limited in on-ball defense, shooting, and he has an average handle. His success came on put-backs, the occasional kick-out three, and drawing fouls while driving.
If we could design the prototypical two for us with TC-STAT-MELO-B. DIDDY we would have to include some of what Landry brings, namely his overall hustle as most of the primarily important duties should be handled by the four mentioned above. But we would also HAVE to demand spot up shooting and something else Landry lacks... DEFENSE!
Yes we've addressed our size issue. But now the tweaking has begun. With Shumpert, if he can prove his shooting prowess; if he can mimic or eclipse Field's bball IQ (rebounding or not), he adds an element we need in my opinion...
PERIMETER DEFENSE. That's where defense starts, on the perimeter. Playing the passing lanes, thwarting penetration, help defense ALL HAVE TO BE INCORPORATED if we want to transform into a quality defensive team. Neither of the four-horsemen can do this. Fields cannot do this.
The issue isn't if Imax can do this... the issue is, is that the best decision for our success. Whatever drop-off that may result from replacing Fields, should be negated with what Imax brings.
Why would we leave an athletic defender on the bench for spot duty while missing one in our starting back-court? Field's skill set is perfect for a bench role. In a 66 game season, allow a confident, athletic freak hit the ground running. Allow Fields to settle into his new role. Stop forcing the round peg into the square hole.
START IMAX and watch him cause havoc on the perimeter.
We had the lead in many games last season... Imax can make sure we keep it this season.
Handle? Fields- only because when Iman dribbles it seems to be a bit high
Passing? Iman- but Fields has good reads with Stat
Offense? Iman but the scoring will not be an important role with Melo and Stat
For now Fields should start, TD will have time to prove himself and Iman should be the sixth man being able to play three positions. If Iman had to be placed in to start it would be TD, because I still think TD is better of the bench. Toney Douglas reminds me a lot of Jason Terry, he's best at scoring and bringing energy off the bench.
And yes TD is best suited for the bench.
And Imax IS A PG with way better handle.
So it comes down to overall defense vs rebounding (although we know MOA will favor a shooter)...
and we know "shooting" isn't really needed as much as "defense".
Let's not kid ourselves. Or do we need a greater body of better-than-Fields?
Iman has better skills and more potential than Fields but Fields best fits the role of a starter. Fields has good chemistry with Stat and is a smart player. Fields knows his role, he won't have to use much energy on offense, will hustle for rebounds and spread the floor shooting. As of right now Fields is the better shooter until Iman has more games like his first pre season game.
Knicks need Iman to run the show off the bench creating for others and scoring.
I see IMAX as more of a SG and Fields as more of an SF. Of course, that means that Fields is relegated to a bench role with us because of Carmelo.
Which is fine. We need guys like Fields off the bench - someone who can rebound and shoot is definitely very valuable.
Fields is not a 30 minutes 2 Guard in this system, he's a 15-20 2/3 guy mainly a 3 who can only shoot when he has 3 seconds to get the shot off. He doesnt jump, he doesnt step into his shot good at all but I'm hoping he works on it. Most of his shots from the wing and corner hit short and from the top of the key they always hit the back of the rim.
If anything I'm not starting either, I'm signing Deshawn Stevenson and relegating all 3 young guards to the bench and let them battle game by game to see who plays significant minutes.
Say we grab Stevenson with the mini MLE and K-Mart with the vets minimum and let go of Green and Hunter
Guys it doesn't matter who starts it's all about Minutes and I think fields and Shumpert will both get decent minutes. as people have said Fields has fallen off but maybe its less to do with Melo and more to do with the fact that he hasn't played with a passing PG since Felton who actually tried to run the offense first. B
Billups is a scoring PG, What he is doing with the Clippers proves that most of all since he can easily move to SG and just shoot for days. When he was in New York this tendency was worse because the Knicks had no training camp for him to teach him any kind of system. So every game the knicks went out there and winged it. That meant Billups took shots if he thought he could make it, passed to melo for Iso if not, or tried to connect to Amare in his sweet spots. Fields was an after thought behind the ghost of whoever was playing center. Their was no ball movement nor designated places to catch the ball. Then When TD took over due to Billups injury it was even worse due to TD's tendency to stop dribbling and look for his shot 1'st, 2nd, and 3rd before passing to Melo. Then in the playoffs it was TD & Fields first experience at that level and besides them and Melo who else did the celtics even have to focus on who could of been a threat?
I expect the Knicks to win games in the beginning based on their physical abilities and once Baron gets here to play a system that uses all the weapons. until then expect ugly bully ball basketball. Fields will play his game which if it works will have the added benefit of tiring opposing SG's who have to chase him around.
As for Shumpert even if he could start at SG (Which I am of the opinion that he could....Maybe..... I mean its pre-season) its better to let him come off the bench and score when a Stat or Melo or sitting since it looks like most of the teams reserves are defensive in nature. TD is an off the bench scorer as a sixth man but if Shumpert lives up to his multiple abilities (I really think he could become a Sprewell type player with more handle ) he could become a premier sixth man who gives the players on the floor a whole different look.
The laker's knew Odom was starter worthy but would use him to intimidate other teams with 3 big bodies sometimes. Other times he would come in and allow one of the other Bigs to rest. That should be the goal if Shumpert pans out. Sometimes Shumpert should play with Stat and Melo to stretch out a teams defense since 3 player can be scoring threats. Sometimes he should play to interrupt another teams star guards (IE the Bulls & Celtics) and sometimes he should come in late to let Stat or Amare take a breather while he becomes the number two offensive option. Also lastly he and TD should between the two of them be able to slow down players like Rose and hopefully share duties on slowing down Rondo and Allen.
Of course all of this his in theory right now because all we as fans know from 1 Pre-season game is:
Shumpert looks like he is quick enough on the perimeter to stop other Guards from penetrating the paint at will and that he strong enough to keep other guards from posting him up. He can also swipe a ball with the best of them that would force PG's to play with their shoulder facing him and would limit their possible passing lanes. I honestly think he can be a PG stopper and baron's ability to play decent D (in theory) against opposing SG's and Douglas ability to play D against PG means he could terrorize both Guard positions around the league.
Last edited by Wargames; Dec 21, 2011 at 05:46.
Let's stop bullsh!ttin'!Shumpert, who had 16 points in the preseason opener, continues to light up the Westchester gym with dynamic play and a smooth stroke from 3-point land. Bibby has been solid. Meanwhile, Douglas is not deemed a true playmaker by the Knicks’ coaching staff, and Fields still can’t hit the broad side of the barn in scrimmages, picking up where he left off in the Boston playoff series.