View Poll Results: What's the real truth regarding MDA and defense?

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  • MDA advised at least some of his players to save their energy for offense.

    2 8.33%
  • The team or certain player quit on MDA

    9 37.50%
  • Mda's lack of interest in defense lead to the players lack of interest in playing defense

    13 54.17%
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Thread: What's the real truth?

  1. #1
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Default What's the real truth?

    OK fellas I'm happy as a pig in crap that MDA is gone. I really dont want to rehash past issues, but seeing the Knicks absolutely dominate on the defensive end less than 24 hours after MDA stepped down and continue to play way above average defensive got me to thinking. How does this happen?

    I remember debating with KBlack and others last year that we could take the same exact team and put a defensive minded coach in MDAs place and we'd play better defense. Not to toot my on horn, but I was right. He blamed it on the players. Which leads me to my poll question.

    I truly think (I dont know for sure) that MDA told his team or certain players (his stars)to save themselves for the offensive end. STATS turnaround and effort really points to this fact.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Clyde & The Pearl; Mar 22, 2012 at 12:40.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    I dunno, Amar'e tried on defense last season, at least a good portion of it. Whether or not Mike told them to save themselves or not, the players should always give 100% on both ends. Doing that because of your coach is just looking for an excuse.
    Last edited by RunningJumper; Mar 22, 2012 at 23:59.

  3. #3
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    I dont know jumper. If your coach explicitly asks you to save yourself for his offense I'm inclined to think you're going to save yourself.

    It's mind boggling the effort on defense we have now as compared to a week ago. It could be that MDAs demise was no ones fault but his own...

  4. #4
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    Wasn't Woodson our defensive coach up until D'Antoni's resignation? What was the point of having him there if D'Antoni would tell the players to forget everything they are being told regarding defence? Realistically the Knicks playing style has not changed much thus far under Woodson. What has changed is the level of intensity and focus. Clearly something/someone was acting in a de-stabilising, de-motivating manner whilst D'Antoni was coach. Woodson appears to be a no nonsense coach. I think he would not tolerate as much **** as D'Antoni did. Also the players now have no excuse to underperform. Now D'Antoni's gone all eyes are on them, and them solely.

  5. #5
    Newbie KnickKnack's Avatar
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    To me, I think the team just flat out quit on him. Not that they just didn't play at all, but they didn't give it the right amount of effort as the other team. I don't think it happened all at once when Melo came back, but I do think it was 3 games into the 8 game losing streak.

    We don't know what words were being spread around the locker room - but I'm sure Melo has enough pull with other players to get them on his side. I do think Lin and Amare gave it a good amount of effort, but at the same time, I think they were uncomfortable with what was going on with Melo and D'Antoni.

    Overall, Melo didn't want to be traded, but he wanted D'Antoni out. D'Antoni tried to use Melo as a scapegoat, and Dolan wasn't having it. With D'Antoni out, the players know that Mike Woodson will be out with him, if the team doesn't turn it around.

    Thus the 5 game winning streak.

    It's not hard to see the players like Mike Woodson. They play hard for him. On top of that, I think the first part of the 5 game win streak was just for him. Now, they're winning and playing with intensity because they LIKE winning, they're use to it - and they don't want it to stop under Woodson.

    Woodson Losing Multiple games = he's out and another coach will come in at the end of the season. If you were Woodson, wouldn't you let your players, who already admire you, know that if they don't start winning games, then you'll be out? I sure would - at least to give an effort for someone who may lose their job.

    My 2c.

  6. #6
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    D'Antoni played only 8 players. All starters in the high 30 minute range. I believe that's the biggest reason.

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by KnickKnack
    To me, I think the team just flat out quit on him. Not that they just didn't play at all, but they didn't give it the right amount of effort as the other team. I don't think it happened all at once when Melo came back, but I do think it was 3 games into the 8 game losing streak.

    We don't know what words were being spread around the locker room - but I'm sure Melo has enough pull with other players to get them on his side. I do think Lin and Amare gave it a good amount of effort, but at the same time, I think they were uncomfortable with what was going on with Melo and D'Antoni.

    Overall, Melo didn't want to be traded, but he wanted D'Antoni out. D'Antoni tried to use Melo as a scapegoat, and Dolan wasn't having it. With D'Antoni out, the players know that Mike Woodson will be out with him, if the team doesn't turn it around.

    Thus the 5 game winning streak.

    It's not hard to see the players like Mike Woodson. They play hard for him. On top of that, I think the first part of the 5 game win streak was just for him. Now, they're winning and playing with intensity because they LIKE winning, they're use to it - and they don't want it to stop under Woodson.

    Woodson Losing Multiple games = he's out and another coach will come in at the end of the season. If you were Woodson, wouldn't you let your players, who already admire you, know that if they don't start winning games, then you'll be out? I sure would - at least to give an effort for someone who may lose their job.

    My 2c.

    I agree. It was all bad timing until Woodson stepped in. I think it was just the way things rolled since the beginning of the season. And, that a newbie like Lin stepped into the limelight and into a leadership role after the injuries. I also think that D'Antoni did the best under the circumstances. There were so many different variables to work with.

    But, I also think that he didn't encourage defensive play, and that is what's bringing the players together into a cohesive group.

  8. #8
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    I think some players just quit on MDA, while MDA was head coach the team showed some flashes of playing tough D. Dont get me wrong this was not a consistent basis thing but their were nights where our Defense was up to par.

    I think the main problem was MDA's lack of holding our stars accountable on the defensive end night in and night out, and when your leaders don't make an attempt to play defense it rubs off on some of the other players not playing defense
    . Everyone know MDA is all about his offense, yes Woody was the assistant coach but thats all he was the assistant coach their was only so much he could do.

    Mike woodson has these boys playing hard on both ends of the floor and will give you a ear full when you do something wrong. I was watching Stoudemire doing a interview from a reporter i think it was after practice, the man was sweating and huffing and puffing ( this is during the Woody era) how many times have you seen that during the (MDA ERA) probably never.

    I voted players giving up on MDA but i think it had to do more with a little of Both players giving up on MDA & MDA's Lack of interest on defense.


    Under Head coach Woodson we now have a Happy " All smiles Carmelo" who's willing to get it done on both ends, We also have a motivated Amare on the defense end so at the end of the day +11111111 for Woody and Penalties for MDA -------1.
    Last edited by NYk_Reloaded718; Mar 22, 2012 at 18:42.

  9. #9
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    He didn't care about defense as much as offense because his philosophy was to score more than the other team which meant scoring so much that defense doesn't matter so much.

    When it came to half court sets, Mike D's offense was terrible without nash and amare running pick and rolls.

  10. #10
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    C'ANToni just sucks, plane and simple.Even a chimpanzee would have made some in game adjustments during some of those losing streaks, but he didn't=GTFO.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    C'ANToni just sucks, plane and simple.Even a chimpanzee would have made some in game adjustments during some of those losing streaks, but he didn't=GTFO.

    His record with the Suns: Year/Games/Wins/Losses


    PHX 2003–04 61 21-40

    PHX 2004–05 82 62-20

    PHX 2005–06 82 54-28

    PHX 2006–07 82 61-21

    PHX 2007–08 82 55-27

    To state that he just sucks is a blatant exaggeration. There were many factors that hindered his ability to succeed with the Knicks and one of them was his refusal to adjust or re-think some of his strategies. A good coach has a game plan that can work, a great coach can adjust his game plan when it is not working.

    Open mindedness is something D'Antoni clearly didn't have; having said that, it was not all his fault.

  12. #12
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    OK fellas I'm happy as a pig in crap that MDA is gone. I really dont want to rehash past issues, but seeing the Knicks absolutely dominate on the defensive end less than 24 hours after MDA stepped down and continue to play way above average defensive got me to thinking. How does this happen?

    I remember debating with KBlack and others last year that we could take the same exact team and put a defensive minded coach in MDAs place and we'd play better defense. Not to toot my on horn, but I was right. He blamed it on the players. Which leads me to my poll question.

    I truly think (I dont know for sure) that MDA told his team or certain players (his stars)to save themselves for the offensive end. STATS turnaround and effort really points to this fact.

    Your thoughts?
    Coaching is really a psychological challenge. The two most important intrinsic traits are:

    1. Motivation (getting players to play above their levels)
    2. Persuasion (getting players to buy in)

    To achieve this, a coach must learn to earn the respect of his players while learning and seeing everyone as an individual. Different personalities equates to different approaches.

    In my assessment of interviews, body language, and performance I've concluded:

    1. The majority of the leaders in the org. and player leaders DID NOT RESPECT D'ANTONI, therefore

    2. The majority did not buy in

    This experiment/experience has proven that in New York, D'Antoni was a fish-out-of-water.

    His tactics were nullified, meaning

    His propensity to double-talk didn't work with all the media attention and analytical eyes on him.

    His propensity to speak in vague ambiguous terms was exposed and translated.

    And his resume was put into perspective.

    Thus D'Antoni had no outs. His bag of tricks was empty. He approached New York like this was Phoenix, and it most certainly is not.

    Now, finally I have to say, all those MDA supporters who we knew had NO Basketball Sense, and tried to argue...

    Their credibility is shot. YOUR COACH did the one thing that
    solidifies all of the knowledgeable posters opinions of MDA...

    HE QUIT!

    Again, I hate to say it, but we told you so.

    Even if under Woody we make mistakes, lose a few, etc...

    1. I want the same extended chance you gave MDA, or you look bias

    2. It won't be because we beat ourselves like we used to

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    His record with the Suns: Year/Games/Wins/Losses


    PHX 2003–04 61 21-40

    PHX 2004–05 82 62-20

    PHX 2005–06 82 54-28

    PHX 2006–07 82 61-21

    PHX 2007–08 82 55-27

    To state that he just sucks is a blatant exaggeration. There were many factors that hindered his ability to succeed with the Knicks and one of them was his refusal to adjust or re-think some of his strategies. A good coach has a game plan that can work, a great coach can adjust his game plan when it is not working.>Mike has none of those qualities.

    Open mindedness is something D'Antoni clearly didn't have
    having said that, it was not all his fault.
    But your talking out of both sides of your mouth though, you just explained basically every reason why he sucks.

  14. #14
    Member BananaSauce's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    His record with the Suns: Year/Games/Wins/Losses


    PHX 2003–04 61 21-40

    PHX 2004–05 82 62-20

    PHX 2005–06 82 54-28

    PHX 2006–07 82 61-21

    PHX 2007–08 82 55-27

    To state that he just sucks is a blatant exaggeration. There were many factors that hindered his ability to succeed with the Knicks and one of them was his refusal to adjust or re-think some of his strategies. A good coach has a game plan that can work, a great coach can adjust his game plan when it is not working.

    Open mindedness is something D'Antoni clearly didn't have; having said that, it was not all his fault.
    Monkey can coach better. Fact during those days they had poor defensive ranking ,last in offensive rebounds and rank high turnovers. They were a highly efficient offensive team only with Nash making him look good every inch of the way.

    Think about it...We were ranked 10th in defense that went 2-8. Now , they are showing showing defensive to win games without dantoni. Who knew? Lol

  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    But your talking out of both sides of your mouth though, you just explained basically every reason why he sucks.

    He had a setup that worked for his game plan. It didn't only work, it worked really well. They reached the conference finals twice. That's no easy task for a Western Conference team. He is a good coach but his inability to adjust to different environments keeps him from being a top coach.



    Originally Posted by BananaSauce
    Monkey can coach better. Fact during those days they had poor defensive ranking ,last in offensive rebounds and rank high turnovers. They were a highly efficient offensive team only with Nash making him look good every inch of the way.

    Think about it...We were ranked 10th in defense that went 2-8. Now , they are showing showing defensive to win games without dantoni. Who knew? Lol
    Funny how they didn't manage much with Nash after D'Antoni left. No-one is saying this wasn't the right time for D'Antoni to leave; but that's a far cry from categorically stating he's absolute rubbish. If a coach is deemed rubbish after managing consecutive 65%+ win seasons in the West, then Woodson must be deemed below rubbish. The Knicks needed a coaching change to reinvigorate them; D'Antoni clearly failed to inspire this set of players. I hope Woodson can continue to inspire them as he has done thus far.

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