If this is not a coaching issue, what is it?

skisloper

Starter
Jeremy Lin, some 2-man game between STAT and Melo, off-ball screens for Fields, Tyson patrolling the low block, Fields/Shump, TD, Walker, and Jordan in a 9 man rotation, with Novac and Jeffries getting spot, specialized, mins if the game dictates it, and the Knicks are a top 4 team in the East.

MDA content with perimeter shots, and combo guards desperately trying to play as a pure point, failing, and forcing Melo to be a point-forward, watching the team shoot an early lead away, equals a 7-11 record.


The only trade I would make is STAT and Chandler for Dwight, mainly because we can't bank on Amar'e staying healthy for the duration of his contract. If he can't give us what he did last year, on a consistent basis, there's no reason to keep him around....other than sentimental value.

And if a team is willing to take that gamble off of your hands with Dwight coming the other way, you do it. Don't think twice, do not pass GO, do not collect 200, just do it.


At this point you CANNOT make any trade until Dantonio is replaced.
We cannot think later on what might have been....
Between Chandler, Melo and Stat we have 3 solid players who are better then we are seeing.......
Before anything or any trade DANTONIO MUST GO.


Dantonio quoted " He does not know what to do "
Play Jordan, Play Lin.........Play Balkman........
These 3 guys will gibe u the hustle for every second they are in the game....
At least their tenacity will keep us from being embarassed....


Yes we bitch about the samething everyday after every game because this is pure misery.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
As long as Dolan owns the franchise it's impossible to rebuild this team correctly. Walsh tried to make this team work, he cleared our cap, kept young and talented Chandler, drafted Gallinari, brought Amare and then Dolan stepped up traded almost everyone for Carmelo and ruined all Walsh's work by one move. If we didn't make this deal we'd enter the 2011 offseason with a $39M payroll in 9 players, we could easily sign Chandler and our draft picks (via exception) + resign Wilson (also via exception)...

Felton/Douglas, Fields/Shumpert, Gallo/Wilson, Amare/Harrellson, Tyson/Mozgov and some trade assets (Randolph, Rautins, Walker) + 2012 first round pick...
 

Wargames

Starter
As long as Dolan owns the franchise it's impossible to rebuild this team correctly. Walsh tried to make this team work, he cleared our cap, kept young and talented Chandler, drafted Gallinari, brought Amare and then Dolan stepped up traded almost everyone for Carmelo and ruined all Walsh's work by one move. If we didn't make this deal we'd enter the 2011 offseason with a $39M payroll in 9 players, we could easily sign Chandler and our draft picks (via exception) + resign Wilson (also via exception)...

Felton/Douglas, Fields/Shumpert, Gallo/Wilson, Amare/Harrellson, Tyson/Mozgov and some trade assets (Randolph, Rautins, Walker) + 2012 first round pick...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-forbes-lakers_most_valuable_nba_team_012512

You have a great point there. As long as Dolan makes 780 million he doesn't care. He will probably fire D'antoni and use the hiring of a new celebrity coach (sloan, Phil Jackson, etc) to justify the ticket prices next year. Its like the Knicks have a Bi-polar version of Jerry Jones (minus the former championship glory of course) as an owner..... Who will likely never sell.

The good news for me personaly is based on age Dolan will die a few decades before me so....2030 or bust right?
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Jeremy Lin, some 2-man game between STAT and Melo, off-ball screens for Fields, Tyson patrolling the low block, Fields/Shump, TD, Walker, and Jordan in a 9 man rotation, with Novac and Jeffries getting spot, specialized, mins if the game dictates it, and the Knicks are a top 4 team in the East.

This piece is so important, especially the line that I highlighted. It's always been about bad rotations and or set rotations for Antoni. We have some good and some decent players but they all have at least one special skill. Antoni does the samse thing every game and fails to adapt to the game in front of him. Each team has different tendencies, so you have to be able to counter that based on what you see.

Maybe a team is crowding Amare near the paint, so give Novak some minutes and make them pay.

Maybe a team is much better defensively than they are on offense, so maybe Jeffries get less minutes since we need to keep scorers on the floor.

Maybe a team has good penetrating guards, so give 7'0" Jordan some minutes to at least try and change some shots.

Maybe a team has a good SG/SF who is good off screens, give Balkman some minutes since he has a knack of hounding players on defense.

Maybe some players are just having a good night (Billy against DEN), reward said player with extra minutes at least until they cool off.

Antoni has a bad habit of setting his rotation, minutes and bench time per game and not adjusting or playing to the current game. After 16-17 games you deem that the offense is flawed and broken??? It should only take 1 week at max to figure out what major changes need to be made with such an "offensive genius" right?

This is no different from baseball where maybe a left fielder starts the game at DH because they need more speed in the outfield since players on the opposing team tend to hit a lot of balls in that direction. The player still gets his at-bats, but the strategy is changed based on the opponents tendencies. This is what any good coach plans for but unfortunately we don't have a coach which uses that basic approach.
 

fender0577

Rotation player
As long as Dolan owns the franchise it's impossible to rebuild this team correctly. Walsh tried to make this team work, he cleared our cap, kept young and talented Chandler, drafted Gallinari, brought Amare and then Dolan stepped up traded almost everyone for Carmelo and ruined all Walsh's work by one move. If we didn't make this deal we'd enter the 2011 offseason with a $39M payroll in 9 players, we could easily sign Chandler and our draft picks (via exception) + resign Wilson (also via exception)...

Felton/Douglas, Fields/Shumpert, Gallo/Wilson, Amare/Harrellson, Tyson/Mozgov and some trade assets (Randolph, Rautins, Walker) + 2012 first round pick...
I still like our team as it is, i still think this coach doesn't have a f**king clue as how to coach this team.But Damn you are so right, our dumb owner single handedly destroyed 2 years of some of the best GM work iv'e seen in a long time.When we only got STAT that year, i was cool with all our young players and have so much CAP room, and so many young assests moving forward, but this retard of an owner killed it all with one swing of his magic wand, sad.
 

Scipio

Benchwarmer
A very good article that gives hope for the future.

However, I`m not sure how much we should trust the validity of anything he says when he is a journalist who says that Mike D`antoni is

"the best offensive coach in the game"
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
@Scipio: somehow we were the 2nd most efficient offensive team in the league last season... and that with medicore Raymond and veteran Billups who isn't really the kind of point guard MDA prefers... let's wait for Baron and see what he does.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
@Scipio: somehow we were the 2nd most efficient offensive team in the league last season... and that with medicore Raymond and veteran Billups who isn't really the kind of point guard MDA prefers... let's wait for Baron and see what he does.

Baron Davis won't bring accountability from Melo all the way to Jordan, Davis won't be the reason why MDA better utilizes his timeouts (17-7 run on christmas before he stops the clock), Davis won't fix MDA's rotations for him.

Baron Davis might distribute the ball better than it's being distributed now.....there's a whole host of things to get thru before you get to his need of a PG.

1)Philosophical indifference
2)Inability or unwillingness to adjust to roster
3)Poor in-game manager
4)Seemingly horrible communicator based on his post-game interviews, and lack of response by players on court.
5)Definitely a poor motivator
6)Entire "system" is based on having a really, really, really, good, preferably an established veteran, PG. Can't adjust to a combo guard to make team run at high efficiency. So if he doesn't have his "pieces" he's not much of a coach.
7)Seemingly spends more time politicking with refs, than actually coaching.

I have 5 issues on my list before we get to the PG issue.

I think this is what Red is trying to get across to folks. This goes far beyond the box score, and how it was affected by our lack of a PG.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Baron Davis won't bring accountability from Melo all the way to Jordan, Davis won't be the reason why MDA better utilizes his timeouts (17-7 run on christmas before he stops the clock), Davis won't fix MDA's rotations for him.

Baron Davis might distribute the ball better than it's being distributed now.....there's a whole host of things to get thru before you get to his need of a PG.

1)Philosophical indifference
2)Inability or unwillingness to adjust to roster
3)Poor in-game manager
4)Seemingly horrible communicator based on his post-game interviews, and lack of response by players on court.
5)Definitely a poor motivator
6)Entire "system" is based on having a really, really, really, good, preferably an established veteran, PG. Can't adjust to a combo guard to make team run at high efficiency. So if he doesn't have his "pieces" he's not much of a coach.
7)Seemingly spends more time politicking with refs, than actually coaching.

I have 5 issues on my list before we get to the PG issue.

I think this is what Red is trying to get across to folks. This goes far beyond the box score, and how it was affected by our lack of a PG.

This is what Red and a host of other people try to explain but some people (Rono) still aren't willing to accept it.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Baron Davis might distribute the ball better than it's being distributed now.....there's a whole host of things to get thru before you get to his need of a PG.

1)Philosophical indifference
2)Inability or unwillingness to adjust to roster
3)Poor in-game manager
4)Seemingly horrible communicator based on his post-game interviews, and lack of response by players on court.
5)Definitely a poor motivator
6)Entire "system" is based on having a really, really, really, good, preferably an established veteran, PG. Can't adjust to a combo guard to make team run at high efficiency. So if he doesn't have his "pieces" he's not much of a coach.
7)Seemingly spends more time politicking with refs, than actually coaching.

This should be the header in every thread.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
This should be the header in every thread.

Yep, I see more complaints about STAT, Melo, and the lack of a PG...meanwhile MDA is in post-game press conferences saying it's cool if Melo was 2 for 12, as long as we're up 8. (we lost the game mind you)

But to some people the main issue seems to be the actual product on the court and the lack of a PG.

If by some miracle, the Knicks got their shit together, made a push, and got the the semis or even ECF....MDA would most likely get coached into submission in a 7 game series.

Not adjusting for one-off games during a 66 or 82 game season is one thing...not adjusting when you're gonna see the same dudes again on Tuesday is an entirely different animal, and that sum bitch is feral.

For reference: look at the home-and-home against the Pacers last season. We got spanked by the DC and Psycho-T pick-and-roll in the Garden.....went to Indiana 48 hours later...and got spanked by the same Psycho-T and DC pick-and-roll.

I know dudes on here remember that little series. Tyler had like 29 points on the Garden floor, set a career high (sound familiar?), went to Indy...set another career high...

Yep, Baron Davis is the answer, gonna fix everything.
 
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nuckles2k2

Superstar
:winner:
Well, the alternative is that he isn't and we're so far up the hole, we won't see light for another 6 years.

That's not the alternative at all. Competent coaching is.

Why was STAT allowed to meander around the perimeter last night? As a coach, you pull the reins on a player by calling a play that puts him in prime position for success, if he refuses to run your plays, you bench him.

STAT stayed in the game, and was absent for about 32 of the 38 mins he played.

Why?
 

knickzrulezH20

Sexy Stud
Lack of depth in my opinion.

Guys we traded 4 starters to get Melo, and Fields has disappeared since the trade, so you can say we sorta lost 5 starters to get Melo.

Bill Walker, Landry Fields, Josh Harrelson, Toney Douglas, 50 year old Mike Bibby, Steve Novak, Jeremy Lin, Jarred Giraffries, Shump (to erratic)

Those are are "key" role players to surround our 3 best players. Come on guys, thats a total joke. If you ask non-NY Knicks fans who those players are, they'd draw a blank.

We are devoid of talent beyond our big three. Hopefully B-Diddy plays like he did in Cleveland but who knows with his age and back. And even then he's only one piece.

Do you know how good our team would be had Melo just freaking signed in the offseason. Stupid stupid Dolan.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Lack of depth in my opinion.

Guys we traded 4 starters to get Melo, and Fields has disappeared since the trade, so you can say we sorta lost 5 starters to get Melo.

Bill Walker, Landry Fields, Josh Harrelson, Toney Douglas, 50 year old Mike Bibby, Steve Novak, Jeremy Lin, Jarred Giraffries, Shump (to erratic)

Those are are "key" role players to surround our 3 best players. Come on guys, thats a total joke. If you ask non-NY Knicks fans who those players are, they'd draw a blank.

We are devoid of talent beyond our big three. Hopefully B-Diddy plays like he did in Cleveland but who knows with his age and back. And even then he's only one piece.

Do you know how good our team would be had Melo just freaking signed in the offseason. Stupid stupid Dolan.

Baron Davis won't bring accountability from Melo all the way to Jordan, Davis won't be the reason why MDA better utilizes his timeouts (17-7 run on christmas before he stops the clock), Davis won't fix MDA's rotations for him.

Baron Davis might distribute the ball better than it's being distributed now.....there's a whole host of things to get thru before you get to his need of a PG.

1)Philosophical indifference
2)Inability or unwillingness to adjust to roster
3)Poor in-game manager
4)Seemingly horrible communicator based on his post-game interviews, and lack of response by players on court.
5)Definitely a poor motivator
6)Entire "system" is based on having a really, really, really, good, preferably an established veteran, PG. Can't adjust to a combo guard to make team run at high efficiency. So if he doesn't have his "pieces" he's not much of a coach.
7)Seemingly spends more time politicking with refs, than actually coaching.

I have 5 issues on my list before we get to the PG issue.

I think this is what Red is trying to get across to folks. This goes far beyond the box score, and how it was affected by our lack of a PG.

We were 28-26 the day the trade was made, and we traded 2 small forwards in the deal, and we STILL have a small forward playing the 2. Having Gallo/Wilson, Melo, wouldn't have been much of a difference.

Yea we traded Felton, who was serviceable, and Mozzy who was grossly misused.

We have Jordan on the bench who always looks good when he comes in, he can contribute some key role minutes. We have Lin on the bench who occasionally comes in and moves the ball, he almost never plays...why not? Why can't Jordan be our new, more competent Mozzy, and why can't Lin come in and hold down the fort at PG until Baron gets back?????? Surely it makes more sense to play a young, but pure point guard....at point guard....as opposed to a combo guard who's been struggling at the point since....forever?????

Baron Davis won't make MDA better utilize his roster.

I mean...one of those 4 that we traded was Mozgov....we replaced him with Tyson Chandler...we had a small forward playing the 2....we drafted Shump, he's running the point, meanwhile we have a second year our point on the bench.

People have to give up this trade shit. We get it, we traded away sentimental pieces. If they were on this team, just standing around like our guys are now, it would be no different. We've already seen that, Gallo was notorious for it, the standing, waiting, catch, shoot. He goes to Denver where points in the paint, and free throws have been stressed since George Karl has been there, and VIOLA, Gallo is a better player.

Are we to think that his growth just happen to coincide with his moving to a system run under that philosophy? He would have blossomed into the same player no matter the influence of the system and what it demands of him? Yea, ok, I got a bridge to sell you, hit me up with your contact info.
 
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Scipio

Benchwarmer
Spot on nuckles. I`m sick of all these people talking about trade this guy, trade that guy. Look at what Gallo is doing in Denver etc.

It`s our coach who is destroying our players. Every game with the same strategy even though it clearly doesn`t work.

We will Only get better once this morn Dumbphoney is gone. does anyone really think that Amare, Carmelo, and Tyson are suddenly bad players?

nonsense. Sack the coach and watch us immediately get better.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I mean....we would have had 4 small forwards....what the hell is that?

We upgraded at center...

So Gallo or Wilson just standing around watching STAT and Melo isolate would have been better than watching Fields stand around?

I think the key lost MIGHT have been Wilson since he can probably guard some 2's. Fields has the lateral quickness, and foot speed of a person in a wheelchair, for all of the good he does when the team is playing team ball, he's a liability in man to man defense against some of the quicker guards. If we match up TD or Shump on them (depending on who's starting), we're still gonna have a mismatch at PG. Can you imagine if that was Gallo at the 2, guarding Wade? Q-Rich, Ray Allen, are you horrified yet? Gerald Henderson? DeMar Derozon? Leandro Barbosa? Tony Allen? Anthony Parker?

Gallo, is a decent defender at his position. Had he been here to play the 2 along side Melo, he'd have the ligaments in his knees tied together in a bow right now.
 
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