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Thread: Pretending we continue to 'perform' like this....

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Default Pretending we continue to 'perform' like this....

    It's obvious D'Antoni has to go.

    In an ideal world we get Phil Jackson as our new head coach, but the world isn't ideal so...Woodson to get promoted is the most likely scenario, still better than D'Antoni right?

    But we also need to ship one of our superstars out to re-establish some chemistry. I think our major problem, guard play and d'Antoni aside is the flawed assembly of our roster.

    Here are a few more or less realistic trade scenarios our front office should have a look at after firing D'Antoni:

    1) Dwight Howard and Chris Duhon for Amar'e Stoudemire, Bill Walker and Toney Douglas

    Melo - Dwight is a combination that cold work imo, because Dwight is fundamentally different to STAT, he's a post player who likes to play in a half court set - just like Melo, plus he wants out of Orlando and he's the best rebounder/defender/shot blocker in the game.

    Orlando probably want to get rid of Duhon's $3,5 million contract, I wouldn't mind to take him back as our backup PG, better than Douglas anyway.

    Now that we have a new center, Chandler becomes obsolet, the way Dallas are struggling right now they might take him back with open arms, and we need a new PF after Amar'e is gone, so:

    2) 3 team trade: Lamar Odom and Ian Mahinmi to the Knicks, Tyson Chandler back to Dallas, Renaldo Balkman, Brendan Wright and 2 second round picks (one from Dallas, one from New York) to Minnesota.

    Our revamped roster would be:

    Baron Davis
    Iman Shumpert
    Carmelo Anthony
    Lamar Odom
    Dwight Howard

    Landry Fields
    Chris Duhon
    Josh Harrelson
    Mike Bibby
    Jared Jeffries
    Steve Novak
    Ian Mahinmi




    Or alternatively, we trade Melo and keep STAT, but then we need a top notch point guard to revive STAT'S offense.

    Considering the facts Jersey wanted Melo so hard and Deron Williams probably won't sign an extension )and we need a top PG), we might just trade Melo for Deron:

    1) Carmelo Anthony for Deron Williams

    That would solve our PG issues for the next 5 years with Williams signing an extension and Amar'e would be beasting on offense again. We have t keep cHandler as our center in this scenario and find a new small forward, who's capable of playing alongside Amar'e.

    We could either go for a pure shooter (like Joe Johnson in his Phoenix days) or go for a versatile, high IQ forward like Grant Hill. Hill - STAT is a proven combination and I like that, so let's go for Hill:

    2) 3 team trade once again:

    The Knicks get Grant Hill, Phonix get Toney Douglas, Bill WAlker, Josh Harrelson and a second round pick, Minnesota get Renaldo Balkman and a second round pick from the Knicks.

    That would leave us with:

    Deron Williams
    Iman Shumpert
    Grant Hill
    Amar'e Stoudemire
    Tyson Chandler

    Baron Davis
    Landry Fields
    Jared Jeffries
    Mike Bibby
    Jerome Jordan
    Steve Novak
    Jeremy Lin



    Either way, whether we trade Melo or Amar'e, one has to go imo.
    Both revamped rosters have much more chemistry than our current roster and look like an actual NBA roster and not a fantasy basketball roster...

    I think it's the route management has to go to negate the mistake we made in February, that ****ed up our roster so badly....

    I know it's not gonna happen in reality, but this is what I would do as GM of the Knicks.

    JUst my two cents folks

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    I know this is just fantasy, but stoudemire has a no-trade clause

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Seba
    I know this is just fantasy, but stoudemire has a no-trade clause
    Don't think he has one but non the less, his contract is not insured so any team that might be interested is taking a huge risk with a player like Amare that has serious reoccurring injuries; potential Allan Houston scenario.
    But, we will never know what this team is capable of doing if we do not get a true floor general. Right now they look absolutely chaotic on the floor!
    In my opinion, once again the Knicks front office has shown there inability to build a cohesive team. All we seem to get is a collection of players that can't coexist. Before the Carmelo trade, we saw a team that fought hard and played together as one. STAT was the offensive focus and Felton the leader; and it worked! Could they have won a title? I think if the Melo trade never went down, they would have beat the Celtics... They were just a complimentary player or 2 short from being what Dallas was last year.... Now we have 2 players that need the offense to run through them and play NO DEFENSE! We have to players (STAT and Tyson) with HUGE contracts and bad knees and backs! We are back to the Isiah mentality of loading the the team with name players and scorers.... Also, blaming Mike D is not the answer. Is he part to blame? Yes, but it CAN'T fall solely on him since he has had a different team every year! No, this is the lack of a great GM and we had one in Walsh and he quite because we have an owner that is clueless and a clueless Isiah Thomas that is still running this team from a far! We need the league to do to Dolan what Baseball did to Steinbrenner in the 80's!

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    It's obvious D'Antoni has to go.

    In an ideal world we get Phil Jackson as our new head coach, but the world isn't ideal so...Woodson to get promoted is the most likely scenario, still better than D'Antoni right?

    But we also need to ship one of our superstars out to re-establish some chemistry. I think our major problem, guard play and d'Antoni aside is the flawed assembly of our roster.

    Here are a few more or less realistic trade scenarios our front office should have a look at after firing D'Antoni:

    1) Dwight Howard and Chris Duhon for Amar'e Stoudemire, Bill Walker and Toney Douglas

    Melo - Dwight is a combination that cold work imo, because Dwight is fundamentally different to STAT, he's a post player who likes to play in a half court set - just like Melo, plus he wants out of Orlando and he's the best rebounder/defender/shot blocker in the game.

    Orlando probably want to get rid of Duhon's $3,5 million contract, I wouldn't mind to take him back as our backup PG, better than Douglas anyway.

    Now that we have a new center, Chandler becomes obsolet, the way Dallas are struggling right now they might take him back with open arms, and we need a new PF after Amar'e is gone, so:

    2) 3 team trade: Lamar Odom and Ian Mahinmi to the Knicks, Tyson Chandler back to Dallas, Renaldo Balkman, Brendan Wright and 2 second round picks (one from Dallas, one from New York) to Minnesota.

    Our revamped roster would be:

    Baron Davis
    Iman Shumpert
    Carmelo Anthony
    Lamar Odom
    Dwight Howard

    Landry Fields
    Chris Duhon
    Josh Harrelson
    Mike Bibby
    Jared Jeffries
    Steve Novak
    Ian Mahinmi




    Or alternatively, we trade Melo and keep STAT, but then we need a top notch point guard to revive STAT'S offense.

    Considering the facts Jersey wanted Melo so hard and Deron Williams probably won't sign an extension )and we need a top PG), we might just trade Melo for Deron:

    1) Carmelo Anthony for Deron Williams

    That would solve our PG issues for the next 5 years with Williams signing an extension and Amar'e would be beasting on offense again. We have t keep cHandler as our center in this scenario and find a new small forward, who's capable of playing alongside Amar'e.

    We could either go for a pure shooter (like Joe Johnson in his Phoenix days) or go for a versatile, high IQ forward like Grant Hill. Hill - STAT is a proven combination and I like that, so let's go for Hill:

    2) 3 team trade once again:

    The Knicks get Grant Hill, Phonix get Toney Douglas, Bill WAlker, Josh Harrelson and a second round pick, Minnesota get Renaldo Balkman and a second round pick from the Knicks.

    That would leave us with:

    Deron Williams
    Iman Shumpert
    Grant Hill
    Amar'e Stoudemire
    Tyson Chandler

    Baron Davis
    Landry Fields
    Jared Jeffries
    Mike Bibby
    Jerome Jordan
    Steve Novak
    Jeremy Lin



    Either way, whether we trade Melo or Amar'e, one has to go imo.
    Both revamped rosters have much more chemistry than our current roster and look like an actual NBA roster and not a fantasy basketball roster...

    I think it's the route management has to go to negate the mistake we made in February, that ****ed up our roster so badly....

    I know it's not gonna happen in reality, but this is what I would do as GM of the Knicks.

    JUst my two cents folks
    Congratulations!

    You have just been nominated for making the stupidest (I know) thread and op ever.

    Your thought process rivals that of an adolescent retard locked away underground for the past three years. No offense.

    First you say D'Antoni has to go...

    Then you say we need to ship out a superstar for "CHEMISTRY"....

    F*cking Chemistry?

    As if we had chemistry in the first place.

    Why do people waste their time with these fantastic trade scenerios? Right after we just signed and acquired multiple stars?

    It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

    Once we finally bring in a real coach, then we will finally see some real competition. Until then keep making excuses, and offering your 2 cent trade ideas without regards to the facts presented for the past 3 years

    and all you will achieve is looking like a D'antoni supporter who feels with the "right" pieces he can succeed.


    EVEN THOUGH HE HAS NEVER SUCCEEDED IN HIS LIFE!

    EVEN THOUGH THE LIKELYHOOD OF YOUR TRADES IS BELOW ZERO!

    EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE TONS OF ANALYSIS THAT ILLUSTRATES THE INS AND OUTS OF MIKE D'ANTONI'S APPROACH!

    Don't straddle the line. Either its MOA or the players. NOT Both.

    Pick one. MOA or Players. What's wrong?

    Mike D'Antoni or The Players... figure out who is to blame.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Congratulations!

    You have just been nominated for making the stupidest (I know) thread and op ever.

    Your thought process rivals that of an adolescent retard locked away underground for the past three years. No offense.

    First you say D'Antoni has to go...

    Then you say we need to ship out a superstar for "CHEMISTRY"....

    F*cking Chemistry?

    As if we had chemistry in the first place.

    Why do people waste their time with these fantastic trade scenerios? Right after we just signed and acquired multiple stars?

    It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

    Once we finally bring in a real coach, then we will finally see some real competition. Until then keep making excuses, and offering your 2 cent trade ideas without regards to the facts presented for the past 3 years

    and all you will achieve is looking like a D'antoni supporter who feels with the "right" pieces he can succeed.


    EVEN THOUGH HE HAS NEVER SUCCEEDED IN HIS LIFE!

    EVEN THOUGH THE LIKELYHOOD OF YOUR TRADES IS BELOW ZERO!

    EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE TONS OF ANALYSIS THAT ILLUSTRATES THE INS AND OUTS OF MIKE D'ANTONI'S APPROACH!

    Don't straddle the line. Either its MOA or the players. NOT Both.

    Pick one. MOA or Players. What's wrong?

    Mike D'Antoni or The Players... figure out who is to blame.
    Red, really do we have to attack someone because we disagree with their post? Childish! Also Red, Chemistry is a huge key factor to a teams success. Look at Miami, Dallas, Bulls.... On and on.... Portland.. You guys want to continue blaming D'Antoni as if he's going 3-13!If we are blaming coaches, what about Mike Woodson? How many points did LA and GS get in the paint? How many second chance points? How much was the Knicks out rebounded by in the past 3 games??? There is a very real value to team cohesion and you will NEVER put a quality team on the floor with players that have games that do NOT compliment each other no matter who the coach is! The STAT - MELO combo still needs to be seen.... But, in my opinion they can't coexist on the same team! I hope I'm wrong because I am dying for a title!!!!!!!
    I won't give you a trade scenario, not because you think they are stupid but because the Knicks have so many gaping holes that trading STAT or MELO can't bring back what this team needs.... They already traded everything away for MELO and now they need to make this work without the ability to outright sign an elite PG or replenish the bench...
    HEY Dolan, McRoberts wasn't even considered???????

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    he's not crazy....but nuts to think orlando would do it....

    Chandler, Amare , Douglas and Fields for Duhon, Turk and Howard
    could make sense to Orlando....I mean they lose Howard either way....


    Davis/Duhon
    Iman/Walker
    Melo/ Balkman.
    Turk/ Jeffries
    Howard/ Jordan

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Red, really do we have to attack someone because we disagree with their post? Childish! Also Red, Chemistry is a huge key factor to a teams success. Look at Miami, Dallas, Bulls.... On and on.... Portland.. You guys want to continue blaming D'Antoni as if he's going 3-13!If we are blaming coaches, what about Mike Woodson? How many points did LA and GS get in the paint? How many second chance points? How much was the Knicks out rebounded by in the past 3 games??? There is a very real value to team cohesion and you will NEVER put a quality team on the floor with players that have games that do NOT compliment each other no matter who the coach is! The STAT - MELO combo still needs to be seen.... But, in my opinion they can't coexist on the same team! I hope I'm wrong because I am dying for a title!!!!!!!
    I won't give you a trade scenario, not because you think they are stupid but because the Knicks have so many gaping holes that trading STAT or MELO can't bring back what this team needs.... They already traded everything away for MELO and now they need to make this work without the ability to outright sign an elite PG or replenish the bench...
    HEY Dolan, McRoberts wasn't even considered???????
    Hometheaterguy...

    First I didn't attack anyone, I simply responded to the op, which consists of the same rhetoric he's been posting in every thread. To me he created a thread to reiterate the same lame points that no one agreed with the firt 50x's he presented them.

    Trade STAT.

    STATs the issue. The present construction is the issue. These players who have been together all of a few weeks are the issue. GTFOH!

    It's the coach. And really I don't care to constantly have to point out how we have debunked that notion of players being the culprit.

    Change the coach. Stop looking at things through the MOA lenses. What he needs to b successful. What he doesn't have to be sccessful... that **** is bull****.

    I'll wait though. I said to do it before the season but whatever. I'll wait the agreed 20 games (just like I agreed to stop after we made the playoffs), and hopefully you supporters will see what I mean.

    I went so far as to say even if we win, I'll take it, but I won't like winning in the final seconds after we blow double digit leads, and prevail 106 to 105.

    I'll wait. You'll see that even with better players INCLUDING D12 The system is flawed. There are no players on the planet that can overcome the D'antoni influence. Just look at you...

    The D'antoni influence has infected you. Its akin to a virus lying dormant in your body... it might not be obvious, but its still there.

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Hometheaterguy...

    First I didn't attack anyone, I simply responded to the op, which consists of the same rhetoric he's been posting in every thread. To me he created a thread to reiterate the same lame points that no one agreed with the firt 50x's he presented them.

    Trade STAT.

    STATs the issue. The present construction is the issue. These players who have been together all of a few weeks are the issue. GTFOH!

    It's the coach. And really I don't care to constantly have to point out how we have debunked that notion of players being the culprit.

    Change the coach. Stop looking at things through the MOA lenses. What he needs to b successful. What he doesn't have to be sccessful... that **** is bull****.

    I'll wait though. I said to do it before the season but whatever. I'll wait the agreed 20 games (just like I agreed to stop after we made the playoffs), and hopefully you supporters will see what I mean.

    I went so far as to say even if we win, I'll take it, but I won't like winning in the final seconds after we blow double digit leads, and prevail 106 to 105.

    I'll wait. You'll see that even with better players INCLUDING D12 The system is flawed. There are no players on the planet that can overcome the D'antoni influence. Just look at you...

    The D'antoni influence has infected you. Its akin to a virus lying dormant in your body... it might not be obvious, but its still there.

    In the very first sentence of this thread I wrote that D'Antoni has to go....

    But in my oppinion it won't solve the problem that Melo and Amar'e is a combination that doesn't work, especially with no pass-first PG. Baron Davis is a good all-around PG, but not exactly a pass first guy either....

    I might look like an idiot to you and some others for my remarks, I accept that. No problem for me. This is about the Knicks.

    What are you going to say when D'Antoni is gone and we're still hovering around .500 with this roster?

    Just out of interest, IF that happens what do you say then?

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    I don't see why any team would do any of the trades you list.

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    There is not a shot in hell Melo gets traded. Dolan would never get rid of his best player and biggest money draw

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I don't see why any team would do any of the trades you list.
    Why not Orlando?

    Howard said that he wants to leave and All-Star for All-Star and role players is a better trade than All-Star for Brook Lopez and role players in my oppinion. And Amar'e is from Florida, he would be that 28 ppg scoring beast again with Nelson and Duhon feeding him and the Magic could stay in the Playoff picture.

    Not too bad of a trade, is it?

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    If things dont pick-up in the next 15 games....Dantoni is a goner.
    All I want to know, if Mike get fired do his brother dum-dum-Dan get fired too?

    Our Superstars are not performing with any Leadership, or EFFORT to stay in the
    game....that's bad

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    How are we blaming our superstars three games in when it's plainfully obvious that the main problem is how they are being utilized?

    One of Carmelo Anthony's best strengths as a player is that in addition to his ability to hit the side hop jumper and his extreme athleticism is the fact that he is one of the few wing players in the NBA who can play in the post.

    Have we seen **** from Carmelo in the post this entire season? Or even any of last season? No! We have a coach who's said "Hey Melo, go shoot and score 30 points". Carmelo Anthony is one of the best scorers in the game. What goes with being such a great scorer is the fact that he can score in MANY WAYS. D'Antoni has utilized him as a catch and shoot player like Leandro Barbosa and that's a ****ing insult and waste of a player with Carmelo's talents.

    Amar'e Stoudemire is one of the most physically gifted big men in today's game. He's strong, has extremely long arms, and can muscle his way through most teams' interior defenses.

    Why, then, is there this bull**** "stretch 4" business? Who the hell gave the OK on Stoudemire playing like he's a 37 year old PF instead of a 29 year old one? Who's idea was that ****? STAT is a player who thrives when he gets the ball IN MOTION on to the basket, such as in the pick and roll, for example.

    Putting Carmelo on the court without the post game and STAT on the floor without the pick and roll is like asking Kobe to play without a jump shot. That **** is stupid and we need to find a coach who realizes that and finds ways to utilize players WITH THEIR STRENGTHS.

    We Knicks fans, in order to take the blame off D'amntoni, have found a way to label the presence of multiple offensive weapons a BAD thing. Since when it is a BAD thing to have both a post player who excels in the half court and a PF who thrives off the pick and roll and the full-court offense? The way I see it, if we find a good coach, it allows us to put a solid offense in against multiple different types of teams.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    How are we blaming our superstars three games in when it's plainfully obvious that the main problem is how they are being utilized?

    One of Carmelo Anthony's best strengths as a player is that in addition to his ability to hit the side hop jumper and his extreme athleticism is the fact that he is one of the few wing players in the NBA who can play in the post.

    Have we seen **** from Carmelo in the post this entire season? Or even any of last season? No! We have a coach who's said "Hey Melo, go shoot and score 30 points". Carmelo Anthony is one of the best scorers in the game. What goes with being such a great scorer is the fact that he can score in MANY WAYS. D'Antoni has utilized him as a catch and shoot player like Leandro Barbosa and that's a ****ing insult and waste of a player with Carmelo's talents.

    Amar'e Stoudemire is one of the most physically gifted big men in today's game. He's strong, has extremely long arms, and can muscle his way through most teams' interior defenses.

    Why, then, is there this bull**** "stretch 4" business? Who the hell gave the OK on Stoudemire playing like he's a 37 year old PF instead of a 29 year old one? Who's idea was that ****? STAT is a player who thrives when he gets the ball IN MOTION on to the basket, such as in the pick and roll, for example.

    Putting Carmelo on the court without the post game and STAT on the floor without the pick and roll is like asking Kobe to play without a jump shot. That **** is stupid and we need to find a coach who realizes that and finds ways to utilize players WITH THEIR STRENGTHS.

    We Knicks fans, in order to take the blame off D'amntoni, have found a way to label the presence of multiple offensive weapons a BAD thing. Since when it is a BAD thing to have both a post player who excels in the half court and a PF who thrives off the pick and roll and the full-court offense? The way I see it, if we find a good coach, it allows us to put a solid offense in against multiple different types of teams.

    Great Point.
    Melo always had bigmen screeners to pick off his defenders in Camby, Nene,
    Birdman, and K-Mart. Why wasnt Stat, Tyson, Jorts, screening for Melo?

    When I watch how great Gallo's peremeter game was as a rookie....I waited 3 seasons
    for PHONEY Mike Dantoni to design a play to screen off Gallo's defender at 15 to 25 feet
    from the basket for an open jumper, which never happen.
    Larry Bird had his teammates screen for him when he was a rookie for "pick n
    rolls" and "give n go" which had Bird lead the team in scoring & assists to get
    the ROY award by getting every teammate involve in the game.
    Mike Dantoni is an ISOLATED headcoach that is clueless in so many areas of the game.

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