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  1. #46
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Here is the article Oldtimer is referring to (by the way Oldtimer, to do this, just highlight the address bar in the article's webpage and right-click and copy...then right click and paste it into your post):

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    Where Knicks’ Depth Might Have Been, Questions Abound

    By HOWARD BECK
    Published: January 1, 2012


    It was still four hours before midnight on New Year’s Eve when a giddy celebration broke out in the visitors’ locker room at the former Arco Arena. The whoops and the singing (yes, singing) could be heard down the hall.

    The Knicks were a joyous bunch, having survived an anxious first week in which they lost two games, three rotation players and the facade of a contender. But they closed 2011 with a rollicking 22-point blowout of the rudderless Sacramento Kings, and that was enough to lighten the mood.

    Carmelo Anthony, wrapped in two oversize towels, declared that the Knicks “got their groove back.”

    For one night, the offense hummed, with smart passing, spacing and coordination. Toney Douglas looked like a point guard. Josh Harrellson looked like a second-round steal. Anthony looked disciplined. Landry Fields looked revived.

    It was a moment in time, a well-deserved dose of relief, albeit earned at the expense of one of the N.B.A.’s worst franchises. A harsher reality still looms, however.

    The Knicks are still a team without a true point guard, or a reliable bench scorer, or a proven big man to spell Amar’e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler. Their bench is a patchwork of rookies, aging veterans and marginal players. The drop-off in talent after the Big Three is enormous.

    This is the quandary the Knicks created for themselves when they shipped four starters to Denver for Anthony last February. That deal, pushed through by the owner, James L. Dolan — over the objections of the team president, Donnie Walsh — gutted the roster of its best young talent. Replenishing could take months or years.

    It did not have to be this way.

    Anthony could have waited for free agency to join the Knicks, sparing the roster. Dolan could have listened to Walsh, who was biding his time with more modest trade offers, knowing that Anthony wanted only the Knicks and that Denver had little leverage.

    Had Anthony waited, he could have joined a lineup with the capable Raymond Felton at point guard and Danilo Gallinari as a versatile sixth man. The Knicks would have lost Wilson Chandler to free agency, but they could have kept Timofey Mozgov and their 2014 first-round pick. The roster would have been deeper, more balanced.

    Or the Knicks might have parlayed those assets into Chris Paul, who badly wanted a trade to New York, if only the Knicks had the means to acquire him.

    Would Commissioner David Stern, acting as the New Orleans Hornets’ de facto owner, have taken a package of Gallinari, Felton, Chandler (via sign-and-trade) and the 2014 pick for Paul? Maybe. Or perhaps the Orlando Magic would have considered the same package for Dwight Howard.

    Or the Knicks could have simply kept their depth, filled in around the edges through free agency and retained some flexibility, which was Walsh’s approach.

    What they have instead is a top-heavy payroll, with Anthony, Stoudemire and Chandler making $50 million, a low-budget supporting cast and no chance for significant salary-cap room until at least 2015.

    This could still turn out O.K., but the route the Knicks have chosen is riddled with question marks and assumptions.

    Baron Davis’s back has to heal quickly. When healthy, in shape and motivated, Davis, 32, can be one of the top point guards in the league. The Knicks desperately need someone to create easier scoring chances for Stoudemire and Anthony and to serve as the third scoring option. Davis’s game has eroded in recent years, however, and his back issues could be a continuing concern.

    Iman Shumpert, the intriguing rookie guard, has to be at least as good as advertised, or better. The Knicks know he can be a solid defender and slasher. But they do not know whether he can consistently hit the open jumper or make good decisions with the ball.

    Harrellson impressed Saturday, with 14 points and 12 rebounds, but it came against a Kings team in disarray. If Harrellson can replicate the effort against Miami, Chicago or Boston, then the Knicks might have the frontcourt support they so badly need behind Stoudemire and Chandler.

    For all the clichéd talk of the Knicks’ great offense, they really have only two reliable scorers, Anthony and Stoudemire. Douglas, Fields and Bill Walker are streaky. Jared Jeffries and Mike Bibby provide little.

    Ideally, Davis becomes the starting point guard by midseason, pushing Douglas to the sixth-man role, for which he is better suited. Shumpert should overtake Bibby and Walker in the guard rotation or perhaps replace Fields as the starter.

    A second unit of Douglas, Shumpert and Harrellson, though not overpowering, would at least be a serious improvement over Bibby, Walker and Renaldo Balkman.

    If Davis regains his old form, perhaps the Knicks have their point guard solution for the next few years. If he re-signs next summer for the minimum, the Knicks could use their midlevel exception on a big man, completing their bench.

    But those are just two more ifs in a long series. For now, the Knicks’ fate depends on a 32-year-old point guard with a bad back, a rookie guard with a sprained knee and a plodding second-round draft pick.

    It may not be the formula for a contender, but this is the path the Knicks — and Anthony — chose last February.

  2. #47
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Here is the article Oldtimer is referring to (by the way Oldtimer, to do this, just highlight the address bar in the article's webpage and right-click and copy...then right click and paste it into your post):

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    For the 1,000,000,000 time, Melo already said he would have signed with NJ if the deal didn't get done in time. All of these theories about him waiting and Dolan not pushing it through is a moot point. He DID NOT want to go into FA during the lockout and would have accepted the NJ deal even though we were his first choice. This came from his mouth!

    There are facts to this but some people are still here with the "if he would have" or "we could of had" talk. Enough already.

  3. #48
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    For the 1,000,000,000 time, Melo already said he would have signed with NJ if the deal didn't get done in time. All of these theories about him waiting and Dolan not pushing it through is a moot point. He DID NOT want to go into FA during the lockout and would have accepted the NJ deal even though we were his first choice. This came from his mouth!

    There are facts to this but some people are still here with the "if he would have" or "we could of had" talk. Enough already.
    Which is why I call Melo's greedy ass out so much. He obviously didn't care about winning.

    We would have been better off to let him rot in NJ. There were better options.

  4. #49
    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Which is why I call Melo's greedy ass out so much. He obviously didn't care about winning.

    We would have been better off to let him rot in NJ. There were better options.
    Chris Paul, Deron Williams to name two.

  5. #50
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Which is why I call Melo's greedy ass out so much. He obviously didn't care about winning.

    We would have been better off to let him rot in NJ. There were better options.
    Melo has no control over what Den was asking for. Bridges in DEN were already burned so he had to get moved. GK even wanted it done because it was too much of a distraction to the team. He would have been shipped somewhere regardless or settled for NJ.

    Why is it his fault DEN asked for so much? Blame the Knicks for accepting the deal. The nuggets don't consult with Melo on who they should get for him. DEN was upset that he wanted to leave plus choose his destination, so they were going to trade rape us either way. Add to that the uncertainty of the CBA and you can't blame him for wanting to get a deal done. You're pissing on him based on variables that would have only mattered based on a different point in time. He's beasting for us and doing more than Chandler or Gallo would ever have done.

  6. #51
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Melo has no control over what Den was asking for. Bridges in DEN were already burned so he had to get moved. GK even wanted it done because it was too much of a distraction to the team. He would have been shipped somewhere regardless or settled for NJ.

    Why is it his fault DEN asked for so much? Blame the Knicks for accepting the deal. The nuggets don't consult with Melo on who they should get for him. DEN was upset that he wanted to leave plus choose his destination, so they were going to trade rape us either way. Add to that the uncertainty of the CBA and you can't blame him for wanting to get a deal done. You're pissing on him based on variables that would have only mattered based on a different point in time. He's beasting for us and doing more than Chandler or Gallo would ever have done.
    Melo had all the control. He had all the leverage. He got to pick his destination, not Denver because of the threat of a contract extension. It was all on him. Nobody else.

    Look, if you're happy with the trade, then fine, but don't make excuses for him. Winning a championship for the Knicks was obviously secondary to him. There's no other way to look at it. Getting his money and NY fame was obviously the most important. If you're fine with that, then you're good. No need for you to make excuses for his greed. And I do blame the Knicks for accepting such a deal. We should have let him go to the Nets.

  7. #52
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    Default Going forward

    Granted that the past is past and the "could have beens" are moot points, Beck's article otherwise focuses on our current team and our future prospects. We have three great players, at least individually, a former somewhat aging star we hope will resurrect a sometimes brilliant past, one promising rookie in Shumpert, a surprising one in Harrelson, and sometimes effective players in Fields and Douglas. But Douglas is plainly not a point guard and Fields' limitations when playing other than in a D'Antoni SSOL system are becoming glaring. Novak, Bibby, Balkman, and Lin, have neither much of a present or future. Jordan is at best a project, but he may prove valuable. We are thin and without first round draft picks in 2012 and 2014 or cap room for free agents for several years, we are going to need a lot of luck going forward to achieve any reasonable depth.

    I forgot about Walker, he is also sometimes effective, but nothing to get excited about.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; Jan 04, 2012 at 17:27. Reason: Missed someone

  8. #53
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    I'm with Kiyaman on this guys.

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