Your expectations of our players is absurd

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
This is probably going to be too long of a read for many of our posters whose attention span goes as far as watching 1 quarter of basketball before proposing that we trade Melo Stat and Tyson for D12 CP3 and Lebron. However maybe it will make a few people think twice.

Our team right now is a complete joke. Our roster at first glance looks good but as a TEAM we lack any kind of cohesiveness or chemistry. We lack fundamental cogs that would turn this team into a solid one pretty much overnight. Lets talk about the players we have.

Carmelo Anthony - Currently the best player on our roster not only by reputation but performances. However, I remember at the start of the season posting an article about MDA comparing Melo to Larry Bird and playing him as a point forward. I laughed at it then and people were like "no srsly smokes melo can be a playmaker!!!11eleven"... Uh, no, he can't. He's shown nothing more than glimpses of being a good assist man and when he does its purely because the other team is doubling the shit out of him. Melo is not Lebron. He's not Larry Bird. He's Melo, a 25ppg scorer and the best improvement we can hope to see from him is that he'll step up defensively, consistently.

Amare Stoudemire - Regardless of his struggles, still the second best player on our team by the same criteria as above. Amare has played his entire career with a premier PG. We specifically brought in Felton on a 2 year "overpaid" deal for the purpose of having someone who could get STAT the ball. Even after trading Felton we had Billups, a savvy championship calibre PG with smarts. We don't have ANYONE on the team who can do this anymore so it should be no surprise that Amare is not functioning properly right now.

Tyson Chandler - Is a 10ppg 10rpg 2bpg player we got for defensive purposes only. Offensively he's as useful as Jared Jefferies unless, yes you guessed it, he's playing with a solid PG. Once gelled and cohesive with Amare we should see some nice interior D on this team. It's not surprising that a team who is so crap offensively also struggles defensively because we have a desperation negative mindset right now and Tyson/STAT/Jorts will need a while before they are comfortable with each others floor positioning and know when their teammate needs help.

Toney Douglas (29th pick) - Again, expectations coming in for this guy were silly especially after his performance in the playoffs. Our offensive genius coach saw Toney as a potential starting PG in the NBA. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. This guy has and always will be a legit scoring 6th man type of combo guard threat and should be used as such. Obviously he's suffered a huge blow to his confidence thanks to the position he's been placed in but as the season progresses and our team improves you can REALISTICALLY expect him to return to being a 15ppg scorer off the bench who can hit the 3 ball.

Landry Fields (39th pick) - I genuinely wonder whether during his time with Andy Rautins posting youtube videos they DP'ed some peoples girlfriends on this site the kinda hate this guy has been receiving. The guy is a hard working 15-20mpg SG who should be anchoring the 2nd unit with solid fundamentals, fast break buckets, hustle, catch and shoot open opportunities, catch and drive the baseline etc. The guy can consistently contribute 8-10ppg 5 rebs and a steal which is more than anyone can ask for from a guy no one had even heard of 18 months ago. He is not and never will be a volume scorer/shooter and he should not be starting on this team, he should be coming in with TD to provide energy, size (at his spot) and hustle.

Iman Shumpert (17th pick) - The way people harp on about this guy here you'd think he's the second coming of Chris Paul. Yet again this guy is not a distributor and up until this summer he could not hit an open jumpshot. He has improved leaps and bounds since then but he should not be a starting PG nor should he be jacking up shots like he's Michael Jordan. When Baron Davis returns I whole heartedly expect Shump to take the role of starting 2 guard and fingers crossed he will be able to defend, hit a three now and then and create a few scoring opportunities from his athleticism and the fact we will then have 3 legit scorers on the team.

Mike Bibby - I only mention Bibby because he's the only actual PG on our roster right now yet he's not even that anymore. He played an entire season in Miami where he was never a distributor or playmaker he was purely there to keep the ball safe as it advanced across halfcourt and then give it up to Lebron/Wade. It's no shock his PG skills have gone when he's spent 2 years without using them and he's the wrong side of washed up.

The rest of our team is barely worth mentioning, in regards to this discussion.

So where do we go from here? Well firstly we get BD back and hope he contributes his usual 15/7 and can control the offense somewhat. At that point we can reasonably expect to score 100 on any given night and judging by our current defense that's plenty.

Secondly, and I'd probably ejaculate a river of spunk that would drown my entire street if this happened, we need to replace MDA with someone who actually knows how to utilize players other than the PG/C in a pick n rollololololol. I have plenty more to say about MDA but it's not too relevant to the topic of expectations of our players.

Currently on this team we really only have a couple of players who are underachieving and you can attribute a lot of that to confidence. Once the wins start rolling in, you'll see a whole new New York :gony:


Re bolded - Yes we do. It's B Davis.. best pointguard MDA's had since Steve Nash.

The rest of the post I agree with wholeheartedly. Nice one Smokey :thumbsup:
 

fender0577

Rotation player
timeout.gif




Now that we've seen this ineptitude for three years, with scores of different players...

We KNOW it's the coach.

[/SIZE]
Exactly what iv'e been saying, if you keep giving the monkey the gun(roster turn overs) and he keeps shooting you, stop giving the monkey(antoni) the gun.First it was the roster(Isiahs team),then marbury, then it was wash trading Gallo, now it's STAT and Melo can't co-exist or we need a PG.How many excuses will this guy get, he can't coach we've seen it for 3 **ckin years already, times up.
 

InGodsHands

Benchwarmer
Yes, I've read the article and all you do is defending our players, why they can't do this and can't do that.

Losers go for excuses, winners just do things.

And please stop to consistently remind us of where our young players were picked, that doesn't mean anything in pro sports.

I could even counter your argument and mention that Rashard Lewis or Michael Redd were second round picks and made it to the All-Star game, Ben Wallace wasn't drafted at all....so cut the excuses for Fields and Douglas that we can't expect them to bee good because they were late first/early second round picks.

I've had enough of those excuses.

It's also pretty sad that a $100 million man like Stoudemire can't play the game of basketball without a good PG by his side, it's almost a joke!

And last but not least: WE are expecting too much of our players? Are you kidding me? THEY ran they're mouth as soon as the lockout ended and we signed Chandler how good we are and that we're going for a championship!

Now it's our fault?

Open your ears man. They were talking the talk , especially Stoudemire and now they can't deliver, but it's all good as long as fans like you got their backs and find 100 excuses why the fail to do their job, it's the coach, their Draft position, the fans' expectations, the media etc.

It's good to be an athlete folks, smokes will always back you up!

Do they actually pay you for this?


great post I feel exactly same way:thumbsup:
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Good thread, Smokes. I agree with everything, except your expectations for Baron Davis.

Since 2007, Davis has been injury prone and washed up. I doubt he's going to magically start being a playmaker and offensive threat 5 years later.
I think the Knicks are just screwed at the PG position, because they got greedy. They didn't want to keep an expiring Billups, so they got a washed up Davis and Bibby.
 

smokes

Huge Member
Yes, I've read the article and all you do is defending our players, why they can't do this and can't do that.

Losers go for excuses, winners just do things.

And please stop to consistently remind us of where our young players were picked, that doesn't mean anything in pro sports.

I could even counter your argument and mention that Rashard Lewis or Michael Redd were second round picks and made it to the All-Star game, Ben Wallace wasn't drafted at all....so cut the excuses for Fields and Douglas that we can't expect them to bee good because they were late first/early second round picks.

I've had enough of those excuses.

It's also pretty sad that a $100 million man like Stoudemire can't play the game of basketball without a good PG by his side, it's almost a joke!

And last but not least: WE are expecting too much of our players? Are you kidding me? THEY ran they're mouth as soon as the lockout ended and we signed Chandler how good we are and that we're going for a championship!

Now it's our fault?

Open your ears man. They were talking the talk , especially Stoudemire and now they can't deliver, but it's all good as long as fans like you got their backs and find 100 excuses why the fail to do their job, it's the coach, their Draft position, the fans' expectations, the media etc.

It's good to be an athlete folks, smokes will always back you up!

Do they actually pay you for this?

We are losers right now, make of that what you will (6-7).

Where players were picked does not matter in pro sports? Uhm... That's about as nonsensical of a sentence you could write.

It is irrelevent where any other player was drafted as another poster said it's about EXPECTATIONS you people think that Melo can play like Larry Bird, Shumpert is CP3 2.0, nonono they are not our players are what they are.

I never said you can't expect any of these players to be good. They are good. Not right this minute they're not but as players, overall, they are good. How many times last season, were people creaming their panties over Amare's 8 (?) straight 30+pt games, Douglas 3 point record, Fields overall pre-all star performance, etcetc? Now let's waive/trade these guys because we are in a slump yeah?

I don't call it "running their mouth" when a pro sports team talks about the potential of the team personally but each to their own.

Lastly I wish I was getting paid, I'd be rich right now :)
 

smokes

Huge Member
I will add a couple more things for your viewing pleasure.

To say that it's "pathetic" the way STAT is playing due to having no PG... Well none of us are happy with Amare's performance but it's not pathetic no. Do you think that any other elite big man would be leading us to the promised land without a half-decent PG on the roster? The only players who don't need a quality PG to be great are the players who are great playmakers, be it a true PG, a Kobe/Wade-esque SG, a Lebron/Bird type SF or whatever. You think if we put Gasol, Duncan, Dirk, Bosh on this team with no PG to get them the ball we'd magically be better? No we wouldn't, these guys all have people who can get them the ball.

Douglas and Shumpert were not "a PG picked in the first round" they are guards picked in the first round. You expect a 29th pick combo guard to be able to run an offense in the NBA? You're deluded. And yes, expecting WAY too much!

Why is it embarassing that Douglas is one of the worst playmaking PG's in the league? That's not his role. His role is to shoot and defend and hustle, and hopefully at some point get better at driving the lane. Apart from the last part, he has at points excelled at each of those things.

Thank you and goodnight!:smokin:
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Good thread, Smokes. I agree with everything, except your expectations for Baron Davis.

Since 2007, Davis has been injury prone and washed up. I doubt he's going to magically start being a playmaker and offensive threat 5 years later.
I think the Knicks are just screwed at the PG position, because they got greedy. They didn't want to keep an expiring Billups, so they got a washed up Davis and Bibby.

Well that's the thing. When healthy he is a serious play maker. He makes the heady, savvy passes MDA covets, can run a pick and roll with effortless ease and, if healthy, will fearlessly penetrated into the teeth of the defense.. and finish well. BD also shoots the three accurately.

This guy could really flourish under MDA. No doubt in my mind. He's a real PG.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Welcome back audience to guess why the NYK's are so inept.

Ok Smokes, you're down to your last life line...

Tell us why have the Knicks looked so inept?

Keep in mind, even in victory, when all the fans were "creaming their pants", the NYK's with a myriad of players, were and continue to not be fundamentally sound.

Again... that's regardless to draft position...

So what's your final anwer?

Ummm.... I'm a bit nervous... but I will add a couple more things for your viewing pleasure.

To say that it's "pathetic" the way STAT is playing due to having no PG... Well none of us are happy with Amare's performance but it's not pathetic no. Do you think that any other elite big man would be leading us to the promised land without a half-decent PG on the roster? The only players who don't need a quality PG to be great are the players who are great playmakers, be it a true PG, a Kobe/Wade-esque SG, a Lebron/Bird type SF or whatever. You think if we put Gasol, Duncan, Dirk, Bosh on this team with no PG to get them the ball we'd magically be better? No we wouldn't, these guys all have people who can get them the ball.

Douglas and Shumpert were not "a PG picked in the first round" they are guards picked in the first round. You expect a 29th pick combo guard to be able to run an offense in the NBA? You're deluded. And yes, expecting WAY too much!

Why is it embarassing that Douglas is one of the worst playmaking PG's in the league? That's not his role. His role is to shoot and defend and hustle, and hopefully at some point get better at driving the lane. Apart from the last part, he has at points excelled at each of those things.

Thank you and goodnight!:smokin:

Well Smokes... before we reveal the answer, here's a few more tidbits...

Those "guards" NOT drafted to be "guards", played...
GUARDS IN COLLEGE!

And in reference to your poor theory on draft selections:

1. TC drafted 2nd overall
2. Melo drafted top 5
3. STAT drafted 9th overall
4. Shump drafted 17th overall
5. B Diddy drafted 3rd overall

I think you're getting the hint here Smokes...

Ladies please reveal the answer to why do the NYK's look so inept.

*Cue the price is right horns...

No! Sorry Smokes, you are the weakest link. Good bye!


Well Smokes, damn good try at intimating the expectations of the fans are far fetched. That would make sense if we didn't notice many top drafted players on this team, along with fundamental ineptitude for years.

Enjoy our consolation prize. A free set of tickets for you and your family to the Universoul circus! Starring Mike 'Antoni as a clown!
 

fender0577

Rotation player
I will add a couple more things for your viewing pleasure.

To say that it's "pathetic" the way STAT is playing due to having no PG... Well none of us are happy with Amare's performance but it's not pathetic no. Do you think that any other elite big man would be leading us to the promised land without a half-decent PG on the roster? The only players who don't need a quality PG to be great are the players who are great playmakers, be it a true PG, a Kobe/Wade-esque SG, a Lebron/Bird type SF or whatever. You think if we put Gasol, Duncan, Dirk, Bosh on this team with no PG to get them the ball we'd magically be better? No we wouldn't, these guys all have people who can get them the ball.



Thank you and goodnight!:smokin:
I understand what your saying, and i love STAT,but the other 4 players you mentioned all have on thing that STAT doesn't....A post game.Getting the ball to a big man is simple,if you have anyone who can dribble the ball past half court, and if your bigs have any type of post game, and that's why all of those players would still be effective on this current knicks team.Hell, they all pass better than STAT which creates many open shots for teammates, like i said earlier i love STAT, but dude needs to work on his post game and passing.That would open everything else up for use.Remember Duncan had Avery Johnson before Parker, and Gasol has fisher, Bosh never had a good PG, but they all can post, and don't need other players to create easy shots to be effective.What's pathetic is that after all this time in the NBA, no one has forced a 6'10 260 athletic freak to develop any kind of post game, and that's why he is ineffective without a good PG.Just my 2cent.
 
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nyk_nyk

All Star
I understand what your saying, and i love STAT,but the other 4 players you mentioned all have on thing that STAT doesn't....A post game.Getting the ball to a big man is simple,if you have anyone who can dribble the ball past half court, and if your bigs have any type of post game, and that's why all of those players would still be effective on this current knicks team.Hell, they all pass better than STAT which creates many open shots for teammates, like i said earlier i love STAT, but dude needs to work on his post game and passing.That would open everything else up for use.Remember Duncan had Avery Johnson before Parker, and Gasol has fisher, Bosh never had a good PG, but they all can post, and don't need other players to create easy shots to be effective.What's pathetic is that after all this time in the NBA, no one has forced a 6'10 260 athletic freak to develop any kind of post game, and that's why he is ineffective without a good PG.Just my 2cent.

THIS IS IT FOLKS!

I've said this before in another thread. Its okay for Amare to excel playing with a good pg BUT it should NOT be the only way he can be a good player. Highly skilled big men don't neccessarily need a great PG to be effective. All they need is the ball delivered to them somewhere on the blocks in their prefered area. I blame both Amare and Antoni for this. Amare should WANT to expand his game and Antoni should WANT to make his star player even more effective.

There may be expectations that are too high for some of our players but the one person who isn't meeting expectations at all is the guy who resembles the clown on the tube of assorted flavor potato chips.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
I'm surprised people are surprised this is an iso team.

I am surprised people think just changing the coach and/or Davis returning will suddenly make this team a contender.
 
Nice posts...

rolling in :2cents:

Judging from the ability of the coaches and our current talent…I see certain units working better than others.

Shumpert, Walker, Melo, Harrelson, Chandler…works well

Douglas, Fields, Balkman, Amare, Jefferies/Chandler/Harrelson…works well

Any combination with Stat, Mello and Fields playing together doesn’t seem to work well under coach D’Ant... My best guess why is because they aren’t working any plays, they think passing the rock around until someone is open is enough… but this creates chucking and confusion. It will never form any cohesion because there is no planning or certainty in such a game plan. It will be hard to recognize the tendencies of your teammates when everyone is basically running around freely.

Stat is a scorer, boarder line role player. I say role player simply because he needs a point guard to set him up. Knowing this, and realizing that he needs to develop a post game puts him in the overrated section, his hefty price tag ensures this. As of now…he’s not really earning that fat check.

The only way I can see these 3 playing together is by designing specific plays for them. Back doors/simple pick and rolls…plays that require slick rotations putting our best players in their sweet spots. You don’t really see this. I saw D’Ant go to his small chalk board once this year and that was at the end of the Washington game. It was a simple playground call for Amare to set up a high screen for Melo to shoot a wide open 3 ball. Smh.

Melo playing the point forward is ok…but to a stint, it shouldn’t be used as much as they’re using it now. This is a sign of forcing a game plan to work. Adjustments need to be made. When you have to use your big men to play the little guys positions (dribbling, 3pt’s) and use your little guys to play big men positions (rebounding) there is clearly something wrong in the coaching philosophy.

Amare should always be near or around the paint (actually weaving in and out of it) along with Chandler. He should not be anywhere near the parameter or trying to dribble into the paint. His shot selection should only come with him making 1 or 2 dribble moves in the post…and no more. I always say “WTF” when I see him near the 3 line contemplating shooting it or putting it on the floor….which often results in turnovers because of his pricy, yet weak dribbling skillz. His size and talent clearly illustrates where he’s supposed to be.

Fields is the type of player that needs his own space to shine. I think he plays well with Stat but has problems adjusting to Melo’s ISO game. When playing with Stat he shines and contributes a bit more. With Mello…he seems a bit confuse on what to do, he struggles deciding where and when to give space on the floor for Melo’s Iso. He’s become more of a rebounder when playing with Melo.

Douglas is the spark off the bench, it’s better for him to observe what’s happening before he actually participates. He’s an undersized player and his strengths come from being a relentless pest on tired ball handlers. He developed some range (most small players do) and that helps spread the floor for Stat…who should be our dominant post player. Putting the weight of criticism on TD while we have Stat, Melo and superstar D’Ant isn’t really fair. I think TD has done a lot of improving thus far… but you can only expect so much from this undersized guard.

Shumpert is still adjusting to the game, better than most thought he would…considering he’s still playing injured. His thrive to be a starter will only advance his obvious talents. The young and strong combo guard is playing like he has a chip on his shoulder. I think he is trying to solidify one of the starting guard spots as his own. D’Ant shouldn’t have him shooting so much thou.

Coach has the offensive talent at his deposal. It’ll serve him well if he slowed the game down and let the offense work itself out though control movement. If we saved our energy for the Defensive part of the game…we would have a winning record and be the talk of the East, again.
 
I will add a couple more things for your viewing pleasure.

To say that it's "pathetic" the way STAT is playing due to having no PG... Well none of us are happy with Amare's performance but it's not pathetic no. Do you think that any other elite big man would be leading us to the promised land without a half-decent PG on the roster? The only players who don't need a quality PG to be great are the players who are great playmakers, be it a true PG, a Kobe/Wade-esque SG, a Lebron/Bird type SF or whatever. You think if we put Gasol, Duncan, Dirk, Bosh on this team with no PG to get them the ball we'd magically be better? No we wouldn't, these guys all have people who can get them the ball.

Douglas and Shumpert were not "a PG picked in the first round" they are guards picked in the first round. You expect a 29th pick combo guard to be able to run an offense in the NBA? You're deluded. And yes, expecting WAY too much!

Why is it embarassing that Douglas is one of the worst playmaking PG's in the league? That's not his role. His role is to shoot and defend and hustle, and hopefully at some point get better at driving the lane. Apart from the last part, he has at points excelled at each of those things.

Thank you and goodnight!:smokin:

I think his turnovers are quite pathetic tbh. Name another big man in the NBA that produces that amount of turnovers on a regular basis, by dribbling the ball on his feet, travelling, charging or going out of bounds. Neither of Nowitzki, Gasol, Bosh, Duncan, Garnett or even Kevin Love produce that much unneccesary turnovers. The only one who comes close is Blake Griffin and he's a sophomore....

And yes, we would be better with Dirk or Duncan on this team, unquestionably! Dirk has been lights out for Germany and they don't have a D-League level PG for years....and Tim Duncan....probably the best PF of all time, all he needs is the ball in the post and he'll make something happen.

Eric Bledsoe is a combo guard and he did quite ok for the Clippers in terms of running plays last season, definitely better than Douglas. To name one example.

Why is Douglas playing PG when he can't make plays and can't distribute the ball? He should play SG exclusively. I have nothing against Toney, I really respect his attributes like hustling, trying hard and hitting threes, but he really shouldn't play PG or initiate our offense, it's just painful to watch.

Bibby and probably even LIn should be our PGs until Davis is ready, Shumpert and Douglas should be our SGs and Melo and Fields should be our SFs.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Some coaches believe in scoring inside out. They make sure bigs are not only fundamentally sound (getting to a spot on the blocks, receiving the pass cleanly, holding the ball high, playing with their backs to the basket, initiating their triple threat- passing, dribbling, shooting, using post moves to put up QUALITY shots, even through contact), emphasize gaining position in the post, and making sound decisons.

This allows said player and team to be successful at drawing fouls while putting up quality high percentage shots, and preserving the option of passing the ball out when the defense collapses. Simple, plain, fundamentals.

Others do it the 'Antoni way. They pass the ball around the perimeter, unable to gain position or get the ball on the blocks, until someone is open and decides to shoot... and they fail. This is NOT a fundamental approach.

Can anyone show me where 'Antoni has achieved such novice approach? Where we can be confident that when shooters are off we can try and exploit the post?

No!

Stop the "players" excuse. Even with the players, he can't do it, because he doesn't want to admit this is the best way. He was an average, small, limited PG who's main grasp of basketball was to give the PG more options to beat the fundamentally sound strategies proven to work. And he failed, and its no surprise an Italian PG, as established as he was however limited, doesn't really know the intricacies of basketball.

When you make excuses for 'Antoni, you too are proving you don't know the intricacies of basketball, becaue if you did, you would realize he doesn't. It's plain as day. You don't know what you are talking about, just like 'Antoni.

Now maybe he's a good motivator, maybe good communicator, maybe lax on enforcing rules... who knows?
But don't try and sell me shit and call it chocolate cake.

ANYONE making a case about 'Antoni knowing and being fundamentally adept at basketball, obviously doesn't know baskeball. I could name and illustrate 1000's of instances where Mike 'Antoni obviously does not know the intricacies of this game, 1000's.
 
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smokes

Huge Member
Red... Are you high? Why on earth are you attacking my posts when in the very first one it says clearly and simply that I believe the main reason this team struggles is due to MDA... Sometimes I think you really don't know how to read!

However these fans seem to believe Melo should play like Lebron, Shump should play like CP3, STAT should have Hakeem like post ability, TD is a PG not a combo guard, Fields should be a dead-eye shooter... The list goes on...

NO! Our players are who they are and for better or worse that's who we have on our roster. Our players are not going to change, only the way we play them. The sum of our parts could be so much better, if utilized correctly.
 

smokes

Huge Member
Why is Douglas playing PG when he can't make plays and can't distribute the ball? He should play SG exclusively. I have nothing against Toney, I really respect his attributes like hustling, trying hard and hitting threes, but he really shouldn't play PG or initiate our offense, it's just painful to watch.

Well now you're essentially saying the same thing as I am. Our players are being forced into roles and made to play in ways they are not comfortable with. Melo is not a point forward, Amare is not a great defender, Fields is not your typical catch and shoot SG etc etc.

I didn't once say Toney should be playing PG I said it's ridiculous for people to expect him to be a great PG.

Just like I think Fields is a good player but I don't think he should be starting or playing 30 minutes a night.

And that Shumpert should not be our starting PG and equally should not be playing 30 minutes.

RE Amare I can't even be bothered discussing him anymore, there are already 20 threads about Amare on the first page it's been done to death. You think he sucks? Fine it really doesn't matter because guess what we are stuck with him! No other team will ever take him away the only way he's leaving this team is on a stretcher so I'll continue to support him if you don't mind.
 
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smokes

Huge Member
Shiz guys did Fields just go for 17 points on 50% shooting with a bunch of rebounds assists and steals tonight? Better send him to the D League fast!
 
This is probably going to be too long of a read for many of our posters whose attention span goes as far as watching 1 quarter of basketball before proposing that we trade Melo Stat and Tyson for D12 CP3 and Lebron. However maybe it will make a few people think twice.

Our team right now is a complete joke. Our roster at first glance looks good but as a TEAM we lack any kind of cohesiveness or chemistry. We lack fundamental cogs that would turn this team into a solid one pretty much overnight. Lets talk about the players we have.

Carmelo Anthony - Currently the best player on our roster not only by reputation but performances. However, I remember at the start of the season posting an article about MDA comparing Melo to Larry Bird and playing him as a point forward. I laughed at it then and people were like "no srsly smokes melo can be a playmaker!!!11eleven"... Uh, no, he can't. He's shown nothing more than glimpses of being a good assist man and when he does its purely because the other team is doubling the shit out of him. Melo is not Lebron. He's not Larry Bird. He's Melo, a 25ppg scorer and the best improvement we can hope to see from him is that he'll step up defensively, consistently.

Amare Stoudemire - Regardless of his struggles, still the second best player on our team by the same criteria as above. Amare has played his entire career with a premier PG. We specifically brought in Felton on a 2 year "overpaid" deal for the purpose of having someone who could get STAT the ball. Even after trading Felton we had Billups, a savvy championship calibre PG with smarts. We don't have ANYONE on the team who can do this anymore so it should be no surprise that Amare is not functioning properly right now.

Tyson Chandler - Is a 10ppg 10rpg 2bpg player we got for defensive purposes only. Offensively he's as useful as Jared Jefferies unless, yes you guessed it, he's playing with a solid PG. Once gelled and cohesive with Amare we should see some nice interior D on this team. It's not surprising that a team who is so crap offensively also struggles defensively because we have a desperation negative mindset right now and Tyson/STAT/Jorts will need a while before they are comfortable with each others floor positioning and know when their teammate needs help.

Toney Douglas (29th pick) - Again, expectations coming in for this guy were silly especially after his performance in the playoffs. Our offensive genius coach saw Toney as a potential starting PG in the NBA. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. This guy has and always will be a legit scoring 6th man type of combo guard threat and should be used as such. Obviously he's suffered a huge blow to his confidence thanks to the position he's been placed in but as the season progresses and our team improves you can REALISTICALLY expect him to return to being a 15ppg scorer off the bench who can hit the 3 ball.

Landry Fields (39th pick) - I genuinely wonder whether during his time with Andy Rautins posting youtube videos they DP'ed some peoples girlfriends on this site the kinda hate this guy has been receiving. The guy is a hard working 15-20mpg SG who should be anchoring the 2nd unit with solid fundamentals, fast break buckets, hustle, catch and shoot open opportunities, catch and drive the baseline etc. The guy can consistently contribute 8-10ppg 5 rebs and a steal which is more than anyone can ask for from a guy no one had even heard of 18 months ago. He is not and never will be a volume scorer/shooter and he should not be starting on this team, he should be coming in with TD to provide energy, size (at his spot) and hustle.

Iman Shumpert (17th pick) - The way people harp on about this guy here you'd think he's the second coming of Chris Paul. Yet again this guy is not a distributor and up until this summer he could not hit an open jumpshot. He has improved leaps and bounds since then but he should not be a starting PG nor should he be jacking up shots like he's Michael Jordan. When Baron Davis returns I whole heartedly expect Shump to take the role of starting 2 guard and fingers crossed he will be able to defend, hit a three now and then and create a few scoring opportunities from his athleticism and the fact we will then have 3 legit scorers on the team.

Mike Bibby - I only mention Bibby because he's the only actual PG on our roster right now yet he's not even that anymore. He played an entire season in Miami where he was never a distributor or playmaker he was purely there to keep the ball safe as it advanced across halfcourt and then give it up to Lebron/Wade. It's no shock his PG skills have gone when he's spent 2 years without using them and he's the wrong side of washed up.

The rest of our team is barely worth mentioning, in regards to this discussion.

So where do we go from here? Well firstly we get BD back and hope he contributes his usual 15/7 and can control the offense somewhat. At that point we can reasonably expect to score 100 on any given night and judging by our current defense that's plenty.

Secondly, and I'd probably ejaculate a river of spunk that would drown my entire street if this happened, we need to replace MDA with someone who actually knows how to utilize players other than the PG/C in a pick n rollololololol. I have plenty more to say about MDA but it's not too relevant to the topic of expectations of our players.

Currently on this team we really only have a couple of players who are underachieving and you can attribute a lot of that to confidence. Once the wins start rolling in, you'll see a whole new New York :gony:


I read the analysis of the first three players. Basically your saying that neither can function without an elite PG. I gotta disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

It doesnt take much for a PG to dump the ball in the paint and cut or spot up when the ball is doubled. The only problem with the team as a whole is we shoot waaaaaaaaaaaaay to many bad shots.

IMHO STAT is too far from the rim. I actually saw him post up a couple of times tonight and he abused Gortat. We need more of this and less of the 15-18 ft shots from him. You get STAT in the paint and ask him to make the easy pass when doubled and the offense would run so much smoother. Points would come easier. Offensive rebounds would come easier.

This mess is on the coach, not the players. The players are doing exactly what coach wants. You cant win in this league without absolutely no post plays. It has to be an option...
 

smokes

Huge Member
I read the analysis of the first three players. Basically your saying that neither can function without an elite PG. I gotta disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

It doesnt take much for a PG to dump the ball in the paint and cut or spot up when the ball is doubled. The only problem with the team as a whole is we shoot waaaaaaaaaaaaay to many bad shots.

IMHO STAT is too far from the rim. I actually saw him post up a couple of times tonight and he abused Gortat. We need more of this and less of the 15-18 ft shots from him. You get STAT in the paint and ask him to make the easy pass when doubled and the offense would run so much smoother. Points would come easier. Offensive rebounds would come easier.

This mess is on the coach, not the players. The players are doing exactly what coach wants. You cant win in this league without absolutely no post plays. It has to be an option...

Didn't mention a PG whatsoever when talking about Melo and I never said anything about us needing an elite PG so your basically disagreeing with an assumption you came up with yourself...
 
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