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Thread: Tired of needing the perfect team in order for bum coach to win

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Yes.. i still support MDA.

    He's not perfect, but he's a good coach.

    I'm a firm believer in the notion that every coach, even the very best, need the highest caliber players if you're going to have success.
    That's factually incorrect for many reasons. One, coaches have been successful without "the highest caliber players"; two we have high caliber players; and finally, how does this explain poor output by design?

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    W Woodson so far this year were 8th in defensive rating. Seeing that I'm like what do people have to complain about. We've held teams to around 80 points in a few games this yr.
    This is also incorrect. 8th is a misnomer presented by Tommy D.
    The true stats are:

    24th in rebounds per game
    17th in points allowed, and that number is 95.2 (due to TC, a player you didn't want in favor of a PG... which is an "'Antoni-ism")


    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Right now its the offense, the bad backcourt and some gellin issues from Amare now being entrenched at the 4 and the rest of the guys not really have a feel for each other and playing together that are our main issues.
    I think Melo takes too many shots also. He needs to be a distributor, get guys involved in the first 3 quarters and take over if needed in the fourth.


    But back to my original point. MDA needs a PG to run his offense, no secret there. Every coach needs components.

    Thruout NBA history it's always been the same.
    *Whistle blows
    You are wrong again and again are viewing things through the wrong lens.

    That's a two shot foul.
    I'll refer to my previous post.

    Bold=-1 rep point for an 'Antoni-ism, and mentioning Melo (or anyone other than the coach) as some sort of anecdote for our lack of everything.

    'Antoni-ism An-tonee-is-m: to use an offensive excuse even though the team has better, more accomplished offensive players thus making this point both irrelevant and relevant in regards to demonstrating how defense and a new coach is what's needed, but you fail to realize this.
    Back to you.

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    When he had Nash and Felton MDA could run his stuff and he had success. Without someone who can really run a team you see what we've been subjected to... Melo trying to play point forward. This is not ideal.

    When Baron Davis steps on the floor. We'll start to see this thing look the way it's supposed to.

    Until then we will be incomplete, lacking in the most important type componentry for this system.

    Naturally MDA and the success of the team is affected by this and the other issues I've highlighted.

    Idk what some of you want the man to do. With a complete team this coach will have good success.
    See my post above.

    No we won't see things as they're supposed to be, because 'Antoni doesn't know what's supposed to be.

    Again I'll refer you to a quote of mine.

    If you make an excuse (roster, chemistry, unfamiliarity, turnover, schedule, Dolan, knees, ISO's, injuries, etc...), find some way to explain what this garbage is, propose a trade, or player, or support this guy in any way...

    all I can say is thank you, I now know you have no real basketball knowledge. Easy.
    ...and especially after you admitted this "unorthodox" approach ISN'T what you know as sound basketball. Do you know basketball or not?

    Reading your posts looks more like you are a trapped kidnapped fan mesmerized by 'Antoni, unable to fight the effects of stockholm syndrome.

    Just read and listen to yourself... were you saying those same things, holding those same views BEFORE 'Antoni got here? Or is it that you have been conditioned to believe this?

    Ron... Stop It!

  2. #17
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Yes.. i still support MDA.

    He's not perfect, but he's a good coach.

    I'm a firm believer in the notion that every coach, even the very best, need the highest caliber players if you're going to have success.

    Whether it's Pat Riley, Phil Jackson or whoever.

    Look at all those years Riles had Ewing and no second star and didn't get it done

    Jackson without Jordan that one year= no title.

    Jackson w Kobe aging, decides to retire.

    I think the same things are important that most people do. I enjoy good defensive play and strategy. I was one of the first people on the forum to call for a defensive assistant to be added to the coaching staff.

    W Woodson so far this year were 8th in defensive rating. Seeing that I'm like what do people have to complain about. We've held teams to around 80 points in a few games this yr.

    Right now its the offense, the bad backcourt and some gellin issues from Amare now being entrenched at the 4 and the rest of the guys not really have a feel for each other and playing together that are our main issues.
    I think Melo takes too many shots also. He needs to be a distributor, get guys involved in the first 3 quarters and take over if needed in the fourth.

    But back to my original point. MDA needs a PG to run his offense, no secret there. Every coach needs components.

    Thruout NBA history it's always been the same.

    When he had Nash and Felton MDA could run his stuff and he had success. Without someone who can really run a team you see what we've been subjected to... Melo trying to play point forward. This is not ideal.

    When Baron Davis steps on the floor. We'll start to see this thing look the way it's supposed to.

    Until then we will be incomplete, lacking in the most important type componentry for this system.

    Naturally MDA and the success of the team is affected by this and the other issues I've highlighted.

    Idk what some of you want the man to do. With a complete team this coach will have good success.
    Dude have you been watching the Knicks this year?Seriously, oh and i love the title of this thread"Tired of needing the perfect team in order for bum coach to win", brilliant.

  3. #18
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Not defending the coach but

    @KnicksFanBlog
    I can't believe there's people out there that actually look at PPG allowed as a meaningful measure of defense.

    @KnicksFanBlog
    You're really must have mental problems if you think the Knicks problems are on defense. You just hate the coach for no reason. Admit it.

    Our problems are clearly offensive - if you are using PPG to show otherwise, you are wrong. The issue is clearly that we robbed Peter to pay Paul - we lost a solid leader at the PG position to fill a glaring need in the middle. We are forcing teams to take (and make) jumpers to beat us - but the offense has been a stagnant mess. Amare hasn't gone to the hole nearly enough, our PG play has been poor at best, we are relying on Baron Davis to be the savior in the coming month.

    If you want to hate on MDA for not having a cohesive plan with the offensive talent we had, I think that's a totally fair and accurate criticism. But we are playing the best defense we have in years. If you are criticizing the defense this year, that's proof to me you just hate the coach and don't watch the games.
    Last edited by KBlack25; Jan 18, 2012 at 15:51.

  4. #19
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Not defending the coach but

    @KnicksFanBlog
    I can't believe there's people out there that actually look at PPG allowed as a meaningful measure of defense.

    @KnicksFanBlog
    You're really must have mental problems if you think the Knicks problems are on defense. You just hate the coach for no reason. Admit it.

    Our problems are clearly offensive - if you are using PPG to show otherwise, you are wrong. The issue is clearly that we robbed Peter to pay Paul - we lost a solid leader at the PG position to fill a glaring need in the middle. We are forcing teams to take (and make) jumpers to beat us - but the offense has been a stagnant mess. Amare hasn't gone to the hole nearly enough, our PG play has been poor at best, we are relying on Baron Davis to be the savior in the coming month.

    If you want to hate on MDA for not having a cohesive plan with the offensive talent we had, I think that's a totally fair and accurate criticism. But we are playing the best defense we have in years. If you are criticizing the defense this year, that's proof to me you just hate the coach and don't watch the games.
    The problem is that we still have a problem.

    Here is what's wrong with this post.

    1.
    You just hate the coach for no reason.
    No. The reasons have been listed ad nauseum, but like most, they are being ignored.

    2.
    You're really must have mental problems if you think the Knicks problems are on defense.
    No. There are many issues, defense being one of them, but mostly the coach and his approach which directly impacts everything including defense.

    Ask yourself... do YOU trust Laundry Folds to stop someone? Anyone? Can a proper system employed, and coaching help this?

    Now, ask yourself... could it be that the Knick's defense is improved (but nowhere near commendable) because TWO defesive players have been added in TC and Shump.
    I know ....

    3.
    Our problems are clearly offensive - if you are using PPG to show otherwise, you are wrong. The issue is clearly that we robbed Peter to pay Paul
    No. Our problems are primarily due to the fact that for some reason we always have problems, and really, that's clearly coaching.

    Yes ANY stat must be taken with a grain of salt, and this one should be transposed with our point differential. Obviously you win when you score more than you give up... hello Einstein.

    Here's the crux of this dumbness...

    Robbing Peter = Amnestying Billups

    Hello morons not only were there people who BITCHED about resigning him (thanks Donnie), but many NEVER even believed he would be here for a full season!

    To pay Paul = Tyson Chandler... the same guy who is mostly responsible for THIS POSTER ABOVE to believe our problems have nothing to do with defense, which has something to do with 'Antoni.

    But the people with full mental capacity thought Billups would land us Chris Paul. LAUGH OUT LOUD.

    Beggars choosers, one step back two forward, sacrifice, ...pick one.

    and finally...

    4.
    If you want to hate on MDA for not having a cohesive plan with the offensive talent we had, I think that's a totally fair and accurate criticism. But we are playing the best defense we have in years. If you are criticizing the defense this year, that's proof to me you just hate the coach and don't watch the games.
    Well that's a start.

    But really, if you can't tell our entire flawed approach is apparent on both ends of the floor, that tells me you probably don't know or play basketball. You can't see the poor fundamentals? Really?


    What is anyone thinking when career OFFENSIVE days have been had by our opponents best and worst players? Or when teams drop threes like bird ****? Or when Laundry Folds was guarding Ray Allen in the playoffs and averaged 1.7 points, yet is still in the starting lineup? What are you thinking?

    That we have offensive problems? WOW!

    I think it goes waaaaaaay past offense.

  5. #20
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    Do I trust Landry Fields to stop anyone? No. Do I think he should be benched? Yes - to an extent. I think he can still help out in certain ways. I think these criticisms are fair. But if you are criticizing the defense this year (especially using PPG), you are just wrong, simple as that. PPG is an archaic stat with little to no value in actually analyzing a team.

    Can coaching help this? Also no, because no coach is going to magically imbue Landry with the lateral quickness to make him effective on the perimeter defending his man.

    Yes, there were people who bitched about signing Billups - this poster was not one of them.

    There were people who said Billups would get us CP3 - this poster was not one of them.

    Your issue is you project other people's comments on to me.

    But the defense has been good. The offense has been stagnant, uninspired and just awful, that's the issue. Teams might have career shooting days against us - but if you think Ryan Anderson is a poor shooter you haven't been following the NBA this season. I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

    And the fact that you use PPG to "prove" your point just shows you don't know a gosh darn thing.

    And you obviously don't know what "Robbing Peter to Pay Paul" means. We detracted, heavily, from our PG position, by amnestying Billups to create room to sign someone in Tyson Chandler to fill a role where Jared Jeffries was projected to probably start. We severely hurt our guard position play to help our center play, and though it created a much more physical team in the middle, it created a much weaker team at PG. The issue is we improved heavily in one area by hurting ourselves in another, specifically in running a fluid and capable offense through Billups.
    Last edited by KBlack25; Jan 18, 2012 at 18:01.

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Do I trust Landry Fields to stop anyone? No. Do I think he should be benched? Yes - to an extent. I think he can still help out in certain ways. I think these criticisms are fair. But if you are criticizing the defense this year (especially using PPG), you are just wrong, simple as that. PPG is an archaic stat with little to no value in actually analyzing a team.

    Can coaching help this? Also no, because no coach is going to magically imbue Landry with the lateral quickness to make him effective on the perimeter defending his man.

    Yes, there were people who bitched about signing Billups - this poster was not one of them.

    There were people who said Billups would get us CP3 - this poster was not one of them.

    Your issue is you project other people's comments on to me.

    But the defense has been good. The offense has been stagnant, uninspired and just awful, that's the issue. Teams might have career shooting days against us - but if you think Ryan Anderson is a poor shooter you haven't been following the NBA this season. I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

    And the fact that you use PPG to "prove" your point just shows you don't know a gosh darn thing.

    And you obviously don't know what "Robbing Peter to Pay Paul" means. We detracted, heavily, from our PG position, by amnestying Billups to create room to sign someone in Tyson Chandler to fill a role where Jared Jeffries was projected to probably start. We severely hurt our guard position play to help our center play, and though it created a much more physical team in the middle, it created a much weaker team at PG. The issue is we improved heavily in one area by hurting ourselves in another, specifically in running a fluid and capable offense through Billups.
    The quote you used was not from you. My response was not directed toward you, but toward the quote from the other blog.

    The issue is we improved heavily in one area by hurting ourselves in another, specifically in running a fluid and capable offense through Billups.
    Yes I understand. But how can you say "hurting ourselves in another" when nobody thought Billups was any good IN THIS SYSTEM?

    Isn't that contradictory?

    We have to now assume that the only capable way of "running a fluid and capable offense" is by keeping Billups even though our defensive interior (and perimeter) lacked zeal? The same guy who no one wanted?
    The same guy who everyone said and agreed doesn't play defense well?

    Poppy****. Not having Billups is not a valid excuse of this ineptitude and is made far fetched considering we replaced him with a defensive big.

    My point being, with Billups we needed defense and never planned on keeping him; he was old, slow, and didn't FIT this system remember? So Chandler is here instead because this system needed a big, but now the system doesn't work because it's missing a PG...

    ONE WE NEVER HAD IN BILLUPS. So what's the difference? That PG **** is just another excuse. But the apparent thing and common theme is... THE SYSTEM.

    And further why are we just zoning in on the offense as if there aren't many issues apparent? Isn't that quite "D'antonian"?

  7. #22
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    The perfect team what? LOL We're officially the worst team in the league. If I did the power rankings I would rank the Knicks 30th. Seriously.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Yes.. i still support MDA.

    He's not perfect, but he's a good coach.

    I'm a firm believer in the notion that every coach, even the very best, need the highest caliber players if you're going to have success.

    Whether it's Pat Riley, Phil Jackson or whoever.

    Look at all those years Riles had Ewing and no second star and didn't get it done

    Jackson without Jordan that one year= no title.

    Jackson w Kobe aging, decides to retire.

    --->The problem with your thought process is we now have (3) thats right right huge talents on this team. Possibly (4) if BDiddy is healthy. Along with some up and coming rookies. One which is being used ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY the wrong way.

    I think the same things are important that most people do. I enjoy good defensive play and strategy. I was one of the first people on the forum to call for a defensive assistant to be added to the coaching staff.

    W Woodson so far this year were 8th in defensive rating. Seeing that I'm like what do people have to complain about. We've held teams to around 80 points in a few games this yr.

    Right now its the offense, the bad backcourt and some gellin issues from Amare now being entrenched at the 4 and the rest of the guys not really have a feel for each other and playing together that are our main issues.
    I think Melo takes too many shots also. He needs to be a distributor, get guys involved in the first 3 quarters and take over if needed in the fourth.

    --->So the backcourt is below par. ADJUST. I'll give you a football comparison. Tebow couldnt hit the side of a barn with a forward pass. Guess what his head coach did? ADJUSTED. Team won a playoff game after being dead in the water. Where are the ABSOLUTE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS by MDA?

    But back to my original point. MDA needs a PG to run his offense, no secret there. Every coach needs components.

    --->So he doesnt have the components? Try something different? This team is starving for wins. Its like planning a meal. You want to make veal parmesan. But you have no veal. You have ground beef. Whats wrong with meatball parmesan? Or would you rather starve?

    Thruout NBA history it's always been the same.

    When he had Nash and Felton MDA could run his stuff and he had success. Without someone who can really run a team you see what we've been subjected to... Melo trying to play point forward. This is not ideal.

    When Baron Davis steps on the floor. We'll start to see this thing look the way it's supposed to.

    Until then we will be incomplete, lacking in the most important type componentry for this system.

    Naturally MDA and the success of the team is affected by this and the other issues I've highlighted.

    Idk what some of you want the man to do. With a complete team this coach will have good success.
    --->Oh contrar. The team is complete. Any other coach would have this team sitting at 10-4. MINIMUM.

  9. #24
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    All I have to say is Denver is 10-5...Take this as you want, this can be interpreted and translated in many ways.

    No stars
    All knick rejects

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    Dude have you been watching the Knicks this year?Seriously, oh and i love the title of this thread"Tired of needing the perfect team in order for bum coach to win", brilliant.
    Yea. I had to nip the perfect team thing in the but. This team is talented and big. Most coaches would pee their pants to coach them as is. That's without BDiddy. This cat has no clue about what he's doing. NONE

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    This is truly ludicrous. This guy doesnt adjust to his roster and players like most coaches. We have all this size now and we shoot more jumpers than any team in the league. If not we're dam close. We have absolutely NO POST PLAYS whatsoever. I mean NONE.

    STAT is getting older, now is the time to put his big ass down low and make the other teams pay. But noooooooooo, coach has him shooting from 15ft or more.

    Instead of relying on jumpers that are not falling at an alarming rate send STAT, Jorts, Jordan and Chandler in the paint. Play inside out. But noooooooooooo we gotta make sure our quota on 3 pt attempts are met.

    Point guards cant run the pick and roll? Can they dump it down into the paint and cut? Seems like an easier task to me. But nooooooooooooo we keep running the same thing that isnt working and getting us beat time after time. Its called INFREAKINGSANITY for those that dont know.

    Raise your hand if you thought Jorts was the next Gallo? Hoisting uo 3's at an unconscious pace. Not me. I thought he'd be the next Rambis. Oakley. Silas. Mahorn. But nooooooooooooooooooooooo this idiot takes size and developes him into a 3 point specialist. You're freaking kidding me. You gotta be.

    This clown cant hit the road soon enough....
    Mike D is a clown

  12. #27
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    Until you guys that support MDA realize his system is at best flawed, you'll never see the light. The Knicks arguably have the best front court in the league, and MDA cant muster a winning record because he doesnt have an elite point guard? BS Mr Hand Man. What happens if BDiddy doesnt come back? We lose games because he cant make adjustments?

    You give this team to the worst NBA HEAD COACH in the league (MDA IS A EUROPEAN HEAD COACH) and he'd put STAT & Chandlers big asses in the paint and pound the offensive glass. NO WAY IN HELL ARE WE LOSING TO LOTTERY TEAMS FROM A YEAR AGO. No way is Jorts going to walk in a REAL NBA HEAD COACHES GYM right out of college AND START WORKING ON HIS 3 POINT SHOT. The kid is 6'10 275 for Christ sake.

    CHEEESH...

  13. #28
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    I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

    --->So you think teams taking low % jump shots aganst us is a good thing, but you defend a head coach who's primary offensive philosophy is to hoist up the same type of shots. OH THE IRONY...

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    I'd rather force teams to take long jumpers and beat us that way than to give up easy layups in the paint. Forcing teams into lower percentage shots is to me good defense, and it starts with Tyson Chandler affecting this team and actually making us more physical near the rim.

    --->So you think teams taking low % jump shots aganst us is a good thing, but you defend a head coach who's primary offensive philosophy is to hoist up the same type of shots. OH THE IRONY...
    Where did I defend the coach?

    I specifically said the way the offense has looked is, and I quote, "stagnant, uninspired and just awful".

    You people will read whatever you want into anything. I am not saying don't criticize the coach, I am saying criticize him for things he deserves to be criticized for - in this case the offense, for which there is no excuse for having no scheme or plan with the talent he has.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Where did I defend the coach?

    I specifically said the way the offense has looked is, and I quote, "stagnant, uninspired and just awful".

    You people will read whatever you want into anything. I am not saying don't criticize the coach, I am saying criticize him for things he deserves to be criticized for - in this case the offense, for which there is no excuse for having no scheme or plan with the talent he has.
    I think you mentioned hating on MDA for no reason. Correct? There are plenty of reasons.

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