Carmelo's family issue...

CoolRunnings

Benchwarmer
You people are so damn critical of STAT.

Lets make a list of the top 5 power fowards in the NBA:

Blake Griffen
Dirk
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldrige
Pau Gasol

Now you dont have to agree with my top 5, but for the most part these guys are the top 10 right? Now lets look at whos feeding them the ball

Blake Griffen-> Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki-> Jason Kidd
Kevin Love ->Rubio, JJ, Ridnour
Lamarcus Aldrige-> Felton, Andre Miller
Pau Gasol -> Derek Fisher


Now if you put Shumpert or Douglas on any of these teams they would NOT start. You take any of the point guards above and put them on the knicks they WOULD start. Pretty much all elite power forwards need an above average point guard to facilatate and feed them the ball. Shumpert and Douglas just can't do it. Remember the offense when we had Felton? It had rythm it had flow and the pick and roll with Amare was good.
 

skisloper

Starter
You people are so damn critical of STAT.

Lets make a list of the top 5 power fowards in the NBA:

Blake Griffen
Dirk
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldrige
Pau Gasol

Now you dont have to agree with my top 5, but for the most part these guys are the top 10 right? Now lets look at whos feeding them the ball

Blake Griffen-> Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki-> Jason Kidd
Kevin Love ->Rubio, JJ, Ridnour
Lamarcus Aldrige-> Felton, Andre Miller
Pau Gasol -> Derek Fisher


Now if you put Shumpert or Douglas on any of these teams they would NOT start. You take any of the point guards above and put them on the knicks they WOULD start. Pretty much all elite power forwards need an above average point guard to facilatate and feed them the ball. Shumpert and Douglas just can't do it. Remember the offense when we had Felton? It had rythm it had flow and the pick and roll with Amare was good.

WELL SAID!
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
You people are so damn critical of STAT.

Lets make a list of the top 5 power fowards in the NBA:

Blake Griffen
Dirk
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldrige
Pau Gasol

Now you dont have to agree with my top 5, but for the most part these guys are the top 10 right? Now lets look at whos feeding them the ball

Blake Griffen-> Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki-> Jason Kidd
Kevin Love ->Rubio, JJ, Ridnour
Lamarcus Aldrige-> Felton, Andre Miller
Pau Gasol -> Derek Fisher


Now if you put Shumpert or Douglas on any of these teams they would NOT start. You take any of the point guards above and put them on the knicks they WOULD start. Pretty much all elite power forwards need an above average point guard to facilatate and feed them the ball. Shumpert and Douglas just can't do it. Remember the offense when we had Felton? It had rythm it had flow and the pick and roll with Amare was good.

I'll give you all those guys except Gasol. Fisher is not a starter becasue of his passing ability. He's just trusted with the position. Also, those guys were good before the PGs they play with now. What you should do is show all the PGs they played with and not just recently. These PFs made a name for themselves prior to even playing with the PGs you listed.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
You people are so damn critical of STAT.

Lets make a list of the top 5 power fowards in the NBA:

Blake Griffen
Dirk
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldrige
Pau Gasol

Now you dont have to agree with my top 5, but for the most part these guys are the top 10 right? Now lets look at whos feeding them the ball

Blake Griffen-> Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki-> Jason Kidd
Kevin Love ->Rubio, JJ, Ridnour
Lamarcus Aldrige-> Felton, Andre Miller
Pau Gasol -> Derek Fisher


Now if you put Shumpert or Douglas on any of these teams they would NOT start. You take any of the point guards above and put them on the knicks they WOULD start. Pretty much all elite power forwards need an above average point guard to facilatate and feed them the ball. Shumpert and Douglas just can't do it. Remember the offense when we had Felton? It had rythm it had flow and the pick and roll with Amare was good.

The point is STAT should be able to produce without having to be set up. He's a 100 Million Dollar Man for God sake.
 

CoolRunnings

Benchwarmer
The point is STAT should be able to produce without having to be set up. He's a 100 Million Dollar Man for God sake.

The point is we want to win a championship right? Thats a goal of mine that I want for the knicks. That said, we're not going to win a championship with douglas or shumpert running the pg. Those two wouldnt start on even the worst teams.

Yes Stat is a 100 million dollar man. But everyone should know that he's never played without an above average pg and at this point of his career he wont. He is most effective when getting the ball in the right places.

Do you guys really think any of the top 5 PF I listed can have an significant success and make thier team contenders without an above average pg?

The problem is STAT and Melo are not getting good plays because of the incompetent pg play. There is bad spacing and when they get the ball they have to create on thier own.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Carmelo Anthony has had problems in the past. If you remember, he had a death in the family last year.

Anthony wants to win as many games as possible, so it makes no sense for him to not show up unless it's an emergency.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
The point is we want to win a championship right? Thats a goal of mine that I want for the knicks. That said, we're not going to win a championship with douglas or shumpert running the pg. Those two wouldnt start on even the worst teams.

Yes Stat is a 100 million dollar man. But everyone should know that he's never played without an above average pg and at this point of his career he wont. He is most effective when getting the ball in the right places.

Do you guys really think any of the top 5 PF I listed can have an significant success and make thier team contenders without an above average pg?

The problem is STAT and Melo are not getting good plays because of the incompetent pg play. There is bad spacing and when they get the ball they have to create on thier own.
Last season Baron Davis said Griffin inspired him and made him the passing PG he was. Griffin made things a lot easier for Davis. Yes, maybe Davis was feeling much better too, but this is what Davis said.

Griffin would have had a better season with us thus far than Amar'e. David Lee would have too.

These guys handle business on their own. Of COURSE these guys play better with a PG, and guess what, that's with any other player at all positions! That's what good PGs do. That's what they're there for.

Tell me, would any of these other PFs dribble it out of bounds on the baseline and dribble it off their feet? Amar'e has many times done stuff he doesn't have the ABILITY to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amar'e was bad in some parts of the game last night, but finally he seemed into it.

Anthony took a couple or so shots that were out of the flow of the offense last night, he needs to correct that, but look at the amount of games HE had deal with where he was the only guy. NOW people criticize him???
 

CoolRunnings

Benchwarmer
Last season Baron Davis said Griffin inspired him and made him the passing PG he was. Griffin made things a lot easier for Davis. Yes, maybe Davis was feeling much better too, but this is what Davis said.

Griffin would have had a better season with us thus far than Amar'e. David Lee would have too.

These guys handle business on their own. Of COURSE these guys play better with a PG, and guess what, that's with any other player at all positions! That's what good PGs do. That's what they're there for.

Tell me, would any of these other PFs dribble it out of bounds on the baseline and dribble it off their feet? Amar'e has many times done stuff he doesn't have the ABILITY to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amar'e was bad in some parts of the game last night, but finally he seemed into it.

Anthony took a couple or so shots that were out of the flow of the offense last night, he needs to correct that, but look at the amount of games HE had deal with where he was the only guy. NOW people criticize him???


I have to say I agree with you in some cases. But my point is winning and winning championships. If we examine the facts yes Melo and Stat are not playing well but its because of horrible PG play. History proves that championships are won by the hands of above average point guard play.

Last 10 Championships

2000: Lakers- Derick Fisher
2001: Lakers-Derick Fisher
2002: Lakers-Derick Fisher
2003: Spurs- Tony Parker
2004: Pistons-Chauncy Billups
2005: Spurs- Tony Parker
2006: Heat- Gary Payton/Jason Williams
2007:Spurs-Tony Parker
2008:Celtics- Rajon Rondo
2009:Lakers- Derick Fisher
2010:Lakers- Derick Fisher
2011:Mavs- Jason Kidd


Shumpert or Douglas will not win us anything and thats not brain science. Hopefully Baron can come in here and run the floor. If not, dont expect Melo and Stat to co-exist and play well together.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
I have to say I agree with you in some cases. But my point is winning and winning championships. If we examine the facts yes Melo and Stat are not playing well but its because of horrible PG play. History proves that championships are won by the hands of above average point guard play.

Last 10 Championships

2000: Lakers- Derick Fisher
2001: Lakers-Derick Fisher
2002: Lakers-Derick Fisher
2003: Spurs- Tony Parker
2004: Pistons-Chauncy Billups
2005: Spurs- Tony Parker
2006: Heat- Gary Payton/Jason Williams
2007:Spurs-Tony Parker
2008:Celtics- Rajon Rondo
2009:Lakers- Derick Fisher
2010:Lakers- Derick Fisher
2011:Mavs- Jason Kidd


Shumpert or Douglas will not win us anything and thats not brain science. Hopefully Baron can come in here and run the floor. If not, dont expect Melo and Stat to co-exist and play well together.
It's not a fact though that a team cannot win a championship without great PG play.

However, bad PG play is a different case, which we've seen a lot of of from our team this season.
 

CoolRunnings

Benchwarmer
It's not a fact though that a team cannot win a championship without great PG play.

However, bad PG play is a different case, which we've seen a lot of of from our team this season.

That I completely agree with. My point is the Knicks are screwed. Okay we had a proven pg (chauncy Billups) for 20 games last season (with Stat&melo) and at times it worked. However, 20 games and no training camp didnt help.

Now we have no good pg and are hoping Baron can save us. We got two guys who love to score in Stat and Melo. One of which scores of ISO and the other off pick and roll and good passing guards. Now we need a good pg to equalize all of this; right now our offense sucks because we make it so easy for the defense. We dont move the ball and we score off one on one.

Its ironic because what we do on defense is what we need on offense now and that is MOVEMENT. I'm not a Dantoni supporter but i have to feel bad for the guy. He's never had a stable roster.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
3. Melo is playing the same way he played in Denver but why did it work in Denver because George Karl is a great HOF coach, D'Antoni is not. In Denver guys knew how to play off Melo and make sure he could go one on one when he needs to. In New York every time he touches the ball teams zone up and the other 4 guys stand still
Well, if it worked then why are the Nuggets now on track to make their best record since the 1975/6 season? Post trade Nuggets are .690 (compared to our .434 record), this season they are .667 (compared to .429) and that without some solid role players in Smith, Martin and Chandler that are stuck in China... Ask any Nugget fan why his team became watchable after the trade and he'll certainly say: because they got rid of Lamelo. Nuggets' problem before the trade was that Carmelo got the ball and rest of the team stood around jerking off and watching what's he going to do and this is what we're watching right now with the Knicks, no ball movement, lack of teamwork and way too many isolation and bricked shots, the same issues that bothered Denver for years.
 
I have to say I agree with you in some cases. But my point is winning and winning championships. If we examine the facts yes Melo and Stat are not playing well but its because of horrible PG play. History proves that championships are won by the hands of above average point guard play.

Last 10 Championships

2000: Lakers- Derick Fisher
2001: Lakers-Derick Fisher
2002: Lakers-Derick Fisher
2003: Spurs- Tony Parker
2004: Pistons-Chauncy Billups
2005: Spurs- Tony Parker
2006: Heat- Gary Payton/Jason Williams
2007:Spurs-Tony Parker
2008:Celtics- Rajon Rondo
2009:Lakers- Derick Fisher
2010:Lakers- Derick Fisher
2011:Mavs- Jason Kidd


Shumpert or Douglas will not win us anything and thats not brain science. Hopefully Baron can come in here and run the floor. If not, dont expect Melo and Stat to co-exist and play well together.

To put it simple bro: Amar'e had a HOF PG in Phoenix named Steve Nash and didn't win shit. STAT is one of those players who look good on a boxscore or during an All-Star game, but his game is too one dimensional to lead a team to a championship. He basically relies on his athleticism 90 % of the time.
Look at the all-around package the best power forwards of the past 10 years come equipped with, guys like Garnett, Tim Duncan, Nowitzki. They actually built their game on fundamentals and intangibles.
STAT has no fundamentals. He really is one of those guys suffering from skipping college. One or two years at Georgetown, North Carolina or Georgia Tech and STAT would probably be in the same class as Tim Duncan.
 

carlhil2

Benchwarmer
"Look at the all-around package the best power forwards of the past 10 years come equipped with, guys like...Nowitzki." you guys keep me in stitches, lol, gotta love it!:teeth:
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Well, if it worked then why are the Nuggets now on track to make their best record since the 1975/6 season? Post trade Nuggets are .690 (compared to our .434 record), this season they are .667 (compared to .429) and that without some solid role players in Smith, Martin and Chandler that are stuck in China... Ask any Nugget fan why his team became watchable after the trade and he'll certainly say: because they got rid of Lamelo. Nuggets' problem before the trade was that Carmelo got the ball and rest of the team stood around jerking off and watching what's he going to do and this is what we're watching right now with the Knicks, no ball movement, lack of teamwork and way too many isolation and bricked shots, the same issues that bothered Denver for years.

Thats bullshit Denver made the playoffs every year WITH Melo before he got there they were shit. They got to the WCF because of Melo's play and Billups' leadership. They're playing good now but they are built to win in the regular season. They have depth but they don't have a championship caliber team. You could probably see an upset by them this year in the 1st round but on the contrary the Knicks have holes that make a huge difference in being average, good or great.

We need a facilitator and the problem is we ask Melo to do that, he does it early but then he doesn't get a rhythm and then when he does get his shots, the 1st few are always with 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock so those aren't in rhythm shots. We need someone who can lead our offense and get STAT his pick n roll dunks and lay ups, we need to run set plays with Melo coming off screens and getting back door passes.

If we iso Melo give it to him at 10 so we can get 2 or 3 cuts and he can read the D.

We also need a shooting guard who can shoot, Melo had Afflalo, Smith and Iverson guys who defenses had to key in on which allowed Melo to attack more efficiently.

If we want to become NBA Champions we have to just make those improvements.

Also C'ANToni's offense isn't built for a great wing like Melo its built for a great PG and shooters and slashers which is the team we dont have. Put any other coach with this team and I guarantee we are at least 10-5 right now
 
To put it simple bro: Amar'e had a HOF PG in Phoenix named Steve Nash and didn't win shit. STAT is one of those players who look good on a boxscore or during an All-Star game, but his game is too one dimensional to lead a team to a championship. He basically relies on his athleticism 90 % of the time.
Look at the all-around package the best power forwards of the past 10 years come equipped with, guys like Garnett, Tim Duncan, Nowitzki. They actually built their game on fundamentals and intangibles.
STAT has no fundamentals. He really is one of those guys suffering from skipping college. One or two years at Georgetown, North Carolina or Georgia Tech and STAT would probably be in the same class as Tim Duncan.

I wouldn't say 90 pct of the time lol. Stat was an MVP caliber performer last season primarily because his jump shot was virtually unstoppable. It's what catapulted him into elite status. What's going on with him this year is a combination of a back injury. Melo. No pg. Poor chemistry. And getting used to being guarded by other teams power fwds w Chandler at the center spot. And Amare used to own time Duncan in the playoffs. Check. The box scores. The suns lost those games because d antoni. Was never a quality and still isn't a quality fourth quarter coach. And we all know who was on the other side lines Popovich is one of the best fourth quarter coaches in NBA history.
 
I wouldn't say 90 pct of the time lol. Stat was an MVP caliber performer last season primarily because his jump shot was virtually unstoppable. It's what catapulted him into elite status. What's going on with him this year is a combination of a back injury. Melo. No pg. Poor chemistry. And getting used to being guarded by other teams power fwds w Chandler at the center spot. And Amare used to own time Duncan in the playoffs. Check. The box scores. The suns lost those games because d antoni. Was never a quality and still isn't a quality fourth quarter coach. And we all know who was on the other side lines Popovich is one of the best fourth quarter coaches in NBA history.

Not the prime Tim Duncan though that killed us in the 99 Finals....
And MVP is a media award imo, Lebron is a two-time MVP, but is totally unable to lead his team to a championship, because come Finals time he just disappears.

STAT was great last season when it came to scoring the ball, but let's be honest his game was still fundamentally flawed, but nobody from the Knicks community said anything about it, because we were in the Playoff picture after years of .350 basketball.....he was turnover prone, had no postgame and didn't play defense....right or right?

I think if he had gone to college, he might actually had a post game and learned how to play defense.

STAT with a post game and defense would be a top 5 player in the league and the best thing about it: He could score even without a pick and roll PG and still score in the 50% FG range when his jumper is off for weeks like it is right now.

Ultimately we wouldn't even need Chandler, because a STAT with defense could guard the paint too and the huge money we spend on Chandler for that could be invested in a top notch PG or shooting guard.

Melo's offense is probably the most versatile in the NBA, he can score from three, take the mid-range jumper (which he does too often this year), drive to the basket or post up in the paint.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
@CA7: Carmelo never passed the first round without Billups, moreover he never won more than one game in the series and that despite having a supporting cast of prime Camby, co-star Iverson and a group of solid role players like including Nene and K-Mart... and now compare it to what LeBron had and how far he made it (3 x semi's, 1 x conference finals and 1 x NBA finals).
 
@CA7: Carmelo never passed the first round without Billups, moreover he never won more than one game in the series and that despite having a supporting cast of prime Camby, co-star Iverson and a group of solid role players like including Nene and K-Mart... and now compare it to what LeBron had and how far he made it (3 x semi's, 1 x conference finals and 1 x NBA finals).

Of course Lebron is better! Lebron James is the best player in the NBA, with a shit character and weak nerves, but yeah - he is the best. No doubt about it.

I'd love to have him in New York, everything else would be hypocrisy!
The guy has the complete package (apart from the nerves to bring it in the Finals).

I think I wouldn't even hate him if he was a Knick. I'm actually 99,9% sure I wouldn't.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
@CA7: Carmelo never passed the first round without Billups, moreover he never won more than one game in the series and that despite having a supporting cast of prime Camby, co-star Iverson and a group of solid role players like including Nene and K-Mart... and now compare it to what LeBron had and how far he made it (3 x semi's, 1 x conference finals and 1 x NBA finals).

Carmelo was in the loaded Western Conference and barely ever got home court advantage the year they should have had it when the NBA went with the 3 division winners getting the top 3 seeds Denver was #3 but the Clippers #6 got home court because of a better record so they got screwed.

Also LeBron's Cleveland team wouldn't have been able to match up with the Western Conference teams. The 1 year they made it to the Finals they got swept so what does it matter.

Unlike most I followed Melo since Oak Hill he's been my guy and I know how he can be great. Playing for C'ANToni isn't his style, he'd be great with a Rick Adelman, Rick Carlisle or Doc Rivers, he was great with George Karl but C'ANToni's "system" is too reliant on a Point Guard we dont have which affects everything, other coaches can adapt to who they have, why cant he
 
Top