Knicks LAUCE

Ironic how the terrible 2009 Draft comes back to haunt us today!

We could have easily had Brandon Jennings on a 4 year rookie contract, but we took Jordan Hill - a player D'Antoni had no use for and we sent him to Houston for nothing.

What a terrible and costly mistake for the Knicks.

Jennings is easily good enough to run D'Antoni's offense.

18 ppg, 8 apg, 2 spg player in D'Antoni's system.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Teams can win with being complete.

A team can win without being complete, too, I suppose, by just having sheer firepower, and those individual starts having the versatility in their own games, as such complete players, that it masks having major holes.

Lebron is that type of player. So is CP3. And Wade, too.

Overwhelmingly good, complete players.

Amare, and to a much lesser but still important degree Melo, are not.

This is all very simple....get a starting NBA point guard, and Amare will play like a dominant all-star again, Melo will jive better with the team, and the entire team will thus improve.

The same way Chandler has almost single handedly improved our D -- despite all the other problems, including the gaping hole at PG.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Ironic how the terrible 2009 Draft comes back to haunt us today!

We could have easily had Brandon Jennings on a 4 year rookie contract, but we took Jordan Hill - a player D'Antoni had no use for and we sent him to Houston for nothing.

What a terrible and costly mistake for the Knicks.

Jennings is easily good enough to run D'Antoni's offense.

18 ppg, 8 apg, 2 spg player in D'Antoni's system.

Jru Holiday...Ty Lawson were also available.

And yet, I would say the biggest travesty here wasn't even in those players and Jennings...but not securing Ricky Rubio, which we could have.

I believe it was the Wizards who were EAGER to shop their pick, and had been in very close talks with us on a swap.

The sticking point: Wilson Chandler, who we ultimately refused to include, nixing the deal.

Granted, we likely would have selected Stephen Curry; but I guess it coulda been Rubio, too.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ

I've been saying this since the day the deal was made...

I cant believe you guys this team is a pure point guard and a wing who can shoot the 3 ball consistently and a great NBA coach away from being Elite and you want that team before the trade who has no chance at all of being championship contenders who if STAT goes down has no chance of being in a close game I repeat if STAT goes down with them the way he did against Boston which player on that team puts the team on his back like Carmelo did in Game 2, who? Gallinari no he's not the next Dirk, like people say he can be, Wilson Chandler is a role player who can easily be replicated, Felton is a product of the system. Jameer Nelson got in his ass back in the 2010 playoffs. Mozgov, whatever. Anthony Randolph never played anyway.

The part that does suck was letting go of Corey Brewer who would be a great 2/3 off the bench or even starting.

Back to my point we are 2 players and a better coach away from being where we wanna be. Maybe when Baron Davis comes back and we potentially add a scoring 2 guard like JR Smith or another banger inside like Kenyon Martin we'll see. The real problem is our role players dont fit in with our core guys
 

quiggle

Starter
if you go a little further back the team of Crawford Randolph and Lee was pretty decent as well and we got rid of all that for Renaissance Man and media eluding Carmelo just so Dolan can raise ticket prices and destroy a valuable piece of Knicks history with Willis tunnel.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Some people make it so embarrassing to be Knick fans. One minute its this then the next its something else. I want this player, this player sucks, these guys were better...etc

There is only ONE issue. This coaching staff.

Antoni with no Nash = below average coaching.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
I've been trying to block out what that article is about...Im on the official fukk Gallinari bandwagon right now.

But lets be real about last years team...

Felton was shot half way through the year, he overworked himself. Amare was shot i believe it was before the Melo trade. Chandler is better then Mozgov

Its hard for me to judge this team when we dont really have a real point guard. I dont think its fair. Shumpert is an impressive rookie but hes not a point guard. Antoni has also been a problem, this teams not built for him.

Melo is a talented player but hes not a point guard. Bibby is old, Douglas is either hurt or has lost all of his confidence.

How many teams can u say have no point guard? The Lakers are the only team that comes to mind but even Blake and Fisher > Douglas and Bibby. Fishers not a playmaker but still knows how to run a team better then anyone we have. They also have Kobe who handles the ball alot.

I think we should play Bibby more and play more of an inside outside game. With a lineup of Bibby, Shumpert, Melo, Stat, and Chandler ball movement should theoretically flow smooth. With those 5, i see all types of different plays that would work with different combinations of players. Offense should not be a problem, just imagine if u were a coach and that was the starting 5 they gave u. That should be fun for most coaches to work with, I think Dantoni lets the players do what they want too much. Way too much ISO for players with these types of talents

POST UP: Amare, Melo
3 Pointer: Bibby, Melo, Shumpert
Mid Range: Bibby, Melo, Amare, Shumpert
Pick and roll finishers: Melo, Amare, Chandler
Slashers: Shumpert, Melo

Once someone like Amare or Melo establishes themself in the low post they're more likely to get doubled, leaving someone like Bibby, Melo, Shumpert, Douglas or Fields for an open corner 3.

And no homo but run more backdoor plays for guys like Fields. He usually finishes them

Theres alotta talent here, alotta versatility but if its a complete waste if Dantoni's gonna either coach his team or allow his team to ISO almost everytime down the court.

A big reason why the pre-Melo Knicks were better was because of the playmaking point guard Ray Felton. This new knicks team, Dantoni just doesnt know how to coach them. Theres no playmaking point guard to lead the way until Davis is back. The old Knicks with Felton were more his style of play.

In Conclusion, i wouldnt get too caught up in the Old Knicks having the better record. I do think this team is more talented, we just need a playmaker and a better coach.
 
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Some people make it so embarrassing to be Knick fans. One minute its this then the next its something else. I want this player, this player sucks, these guys were better...etc

There is only ONE issue. This coaching staff.

Antoni with no Nash = below average coaching.

Might actually be true, but drafting Jordan Hill, a player our coach didn't need and we shipped out for nothing, two years ago when Jennings, Holiday and Lawson were available and our biggest need is a decent PG right now.....makes the Knicks look stupid once again.

Especially because they don't eat up much cap space this season and next season, probably around $3-$4 million - which is nothing for a PG of their caliber.
 

Wargames

Starter
Man look Baron Davis is a good PG. At worse he comes here and plays like Andre Miller. I think he is going to come in and play well, Baron can be a competitive player when he is motivated and this is his chance to regain the reputation a bad situation took from him (his time on the clippers started horribly and stayed that way until right before he left). What the Knicks need is a reliable backup PG & a 6th man. I agree the Melo trade was a lost oppourtunity to stack the bench which is now bare. But wishing and what if'ing isn't going to fix that. The Knicks have to see what a Vet min accepting Baron (who if it works out the knIcks could pay decent money after his cav money runs out in 2 seasons) can do. The Knicks are once again in a "wait and see" situation.

Right now there is no offense, however the whole league is playing shameball. At least we have a former all star PG on the bench. Imagine if BarOn didn't clear waivers????:barf:

The problems we have now is just the roosters coming home to coop. The way to fix this is to not overreact. D'antoni is likely gone. Not having a pick this year sucks, however the Knicks are making smarter moves. Sending Lin and Jordan to a situation where they can improve was smart. Signing a top 5 center was smart (Billups was at best a trade piece this year unless he way way overperformed). Not picking Jennings was a dumb pick but I think the Knicks learned from that situation as well.
 
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Its not only the fact that we lack depth that makes me second guess the trade. Its also the feeling I get that the roster is flawed in its make up and our two stars just may not be a good fit. I definitely want to see how we do with a new coach and healthy Baron Davis before making any moves regarding those 2 but we knew coming in neither played much defense and both are ball stoppers who don't make others around them better. I am concerned eveb another coach may not be able to get these 2 to defend and elevate the play of their teammates.
 

Wargames

Starter
Its not only the fact that we lack depth that makes me second guess the trade. Its also the feeling I get that the roster is flawed in its make up and our two stars just may not be a good fit. I definitely want to see how we do with a new coach and healthy Baron Davis before making any moves regarding those 2 but we knew coming in neither played much defense and both are ball stoppers who don't make others around them better. I am concerned eveb another coach may not be able to get these 2 to defend and elevate the play of their teammates.

It's funny because the shots aren't hitting. In theory Amare is a PnR pf who can get open without the ball. He can ISO but that was based on a Orlando type offense where if he was doubled he cod ditch it out to a shooter. Now with no PG he isnt able to play Good PnR nor is there any reliable shooters on the perimeter anymore. Baron will allow him to PnR again and the Knicks can look to get shooters for lower money... So there is hope.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Gallinari was always good.

You guys were always too busy criticizing him because he was an MDA guy to notice.

Yep

And he's gettin better all the time. I know cause he's on my fantasy squad.

Miss Gallo.


KingStarbury how can you hate on him?? He's a homegrown Knick, played w heart and passion for our team and wanted to stay here. smh
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
Gallo is the only player we gave up thats producing for his team right now!

I have to laugh at how lopsided people make this trade out to be simply because of how much better Denver did/is after the Melo trade without going a bit deeper.

Fact: Gallo is the only player who's is making a significant difference for the next squad he is on. Mozgov is a starting NBA center averaging 4 pts, 4 rebs and less than a block and under 20 mins because he still can't keep from fouling and still has not learned how to catch a pass!

But Gallo is not their savior, Ty Lawson is the MVP of that team hands down! Gallo is plenty valuable make no mistake, but it was Ty Lawson being able to take over the PG after Billups was dealt that is the driving force! If Gallo misses the next 15 games they still could go 11-4, if Ty goes down 6-9 at best!

Ty Lawson improved overnight once Billups was gone and still would be playing behind Billups if Chauncy were not traded, yet the improvement is all about Melo's not being there anymore!

Fact: Raymond Felton's numbers were dipping before he was traded, continued to go down in Denver and are approaching him being statistically the being the worst starting PG in the league....Shump is playing out of position in a sputtering offense, on a bad knee and is doing better!

Fact: Jorts is averaging more rebs and just as many points as Anthony Randolph is....I bring this up because this is a player I have heard many cry about losing!


The comparison of us to Denver after the deal is inaccurate from our perspective, from a Nuggets perspective it shows that THEY are better, but it does not mean we got worst!

Allow me to say that again, The Nuggets being better after the trade does not mean The Knicks are worst off!!!!


People say we gave up 5 starters for Melo....which one is not true because Mozgov nor Randolph was not playing much less starting at the time of the deal and people also discount the impact Rudy Fernandez and Brewer have had in making that team better....actually Brewer is the player on The Nuggets I most wish we had! That's honestly the biggest blunder of the transaction....at least until we see what the picks turn out to be



But lets really analyze this thing player for player

If we still had Felton then we would have no BD, so who would you rather have?

BD>Felton

Take a pole of GM's in the league about Gallo and Melo and you'll find that most feel this way......Gallo<<<Melo


Tyson Chandler became a Knick because of us using amnesty on Billups who we got in the deal so lets compare him to the Center we gave up

Chandler>>>>>>>>>>Mozgov

this does not mean I'm saying we are better than Denver (that really should not be our barometer) I'm saying the perception of a horrible return in this deal is greatly exagerrated
 

skisloper

Starter
I have to laugh at how lopsided people make this trade out to be simply because of how much better Denver did/is after the Melo trade without going a bit deeper.

Fact: Gallo is the only player who's is making a significant difference for the next squad he is on. Mozgov is a starting NBA center averaging 4 pts, 4 rebs and less than a block and under 20 mins because he still can't keep from fouling and still has not learned how to catch a pass!

But Gallo is not their savior, Ty Lawson is the MVP of that team hands down! Gallo is plenty valuable make no mistake, but it was Ty Lawson being able to take over the PG after Billups was dealt that is the driving force! If Gallo misses the next 15 games they still could go 11-4, if Ty goes down 6-9 at best!

Ty Lawson improved overnight once Billups was gone and still would be playing behind Billups if Chauncy were not traded, yet the improvement is all about Melo's not being there anymore!

Fact: Raymond Felton's numbers were dipping before he was traded, continued to go down in Denver and are approaching him being statistically the being the worst starting PG in the league....Shump is playing out of position in a sputtering offense, on a bad knee and is doing better!

Fact: Jorts is averaging more rebs and just as many points as Anthony Randolph is....I bring this up because this is a player I have heard many cry about losing!


The comparison of us to Denver after the deal is inaccurate from our perspective, from a Nuggets perspective it shows that THEY are better, but it does not mean we got worst!

Allow me to say that again, The Nuggets being better after the trade does not mean The Knicks are worst off!!!!


People say we gave up 5 starters for Melo....which one is not true because Mozgov nor Randolph was not playing much less starting at the time of the deal and people also discount the impact Rudy Fernandez and Brewer have had in making that team better....actually Brewer is the player on The Nuggets I most wish we had! That's honestly the biggest blunder of the transaction....at least until we see what the picks turn out to be



But lets really analyze this thing player for player

If we still had Felton then we would have no BD, so who would you rather have?

BD>Felton

Take a pole of GM's in the league about Gallo and Melo and you'll find that most feel this way......Gallo<<<Melo


Tyson Chandler became a Knick because of us using amnesty on Billups who we got in the deal so lets compare him to the Center we gave up

Chandler>>>>>>>>>>Mozgov

this does not mean I'm saying we are better than Denver (that really should not be our barometer) I'm saying the perception of a horrible return in this deal is greatly exagerrated


I do not disagree with most of what you said BUT
Shump is playing better then Felton did ????????

your kidding right ?
 
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