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Thread: D’Antoni not solely to blame for Knicks mess

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Default D’Antoni not solely to blame for Knicks mess

    And this is from Marc Berman, the biggest anti-D'Antoni reporter around. Those that think Baron Davis and Mike Woodson are our saviors should expect more disappointment in their future.


    D’Antoni not solely to blame for Knicks mess

    James Dolan should not fire coach Mike D’Antoni today.

    Because if he did, in good conscience, the Knicks owner also would have to fire himself, interim general manager Glen Grunwald, and ship Carmelo Anthony back to Denver, Amar’e Stoudemire back to Phoenix and Toney Douglas back to Florida State.

    Everyone is to blame for the disgusting mess littering the Madison Square Garden floor last night, a greasing-the-skids 100-86 loss to the Bucks.

    The season’s first official “Fire D’Antoni!’’ chant descended from the 400-level in the second half. There were periodic bursts of it in the fourth quarter in addition to a brief “Phil Jackson!’’ serenade and plenty of boos throughout another wretched Knicks evening.

    D’Antoni’s selfish offense scored 35 points in the second half. The kicker chant came with 2:23 left: “Let’s go Giants!’’ In other words, forget the Knicks.

    “I don’t blame the fans,’’ D’Antoni said afterward. “Half my family probably is [chanting, too].’’

    It was another glib remark, but D’Antoni otherwise was as serious as he ever has been, looking drained and perhaps realizing this is the beginning of the end.

    D’Antoni said Wednesday the club was in “a little bit of a crisis’’ after its fourth straight loss to the previously 4-9 Suns. Now it’s five straight losses, and the Knicks are in a complete crisis after getting dominated by the previously 4-9 Bucks, who had not won on the road all season.

    “There are no magic words or magic potion,’’ D’Antoni said. “It looks like they are running circles around us.’’

    There can’t be many nights like this left for D’Antoni to survive into February. There just can’t, even if this dreck is not entirely his fault.

    It is the worst time for the Nuggets to come to town tonight and refresh everyone’s memory of last February’s Anthony blockbuster trade, which looks worse by the minute.

    The Knicks can’t beat anyone right now. They can’t beat the lousy Bucks, can’t beat St. John’s and probably can’t beat Bucks rookie Tobias Harris’ high school team in Dix Hills, Half Hollows Hills West.

    Anthony couldn’t bear the beating anymore last night. He got into a trash-talking battle with Milwaukee’s fleet point guard Brandon Jennings and was ejected with 1:33 left. Some fans cheered, just like they will cheer Denver’s Danilo Gallinari tonight. Anthony scored 35 empty points, shot just 11-of-26 and had four turnovers.

    Meanwhile, Stoudemire stayed on the court long after the buzzer, solitary on the bench.

    “Just trying to soak it in, trying to figure out how to get us back to where we were,’’ Stoudemire said.

    A lot of Knicks fans would like to go back to where they were in February, when a young, up-tempo, ball-sharing team had Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov.

    This roster is flawed — with nothing in the backcourt, on the bench or in the chemistry department with Stoudemire, Anthony and Tyson Chandler. The blame is with management and ownership, not just with the head coach who has a sophisticated offense that takes time to master.

    Dolan, who was not present for the chants, gave up the farm in the Anthony blockbuster against the better judgment of former Knicks president Donnie Walsh.

    “They traded chemistry for celebrity,’’ one Walsh confidant said. “It wasn’t a basketball trade.’’

    If you want to nitpick last night, Walsh doesn’t go unscathed either for the 2008 draft, when he passed on Jennings for Jordan Hill — maybe his worst miscue. Jennings scorched the Knicks for 36 points.

    It could get worse tonight when the Nuggets march into town with their 11-5 record playing Melo-free ball.

    D’Antoni will pay the price for that trade ultimately, but probably not until Baron Davis gets healthy and Dolan sees what the team looks like with a true point guard.

    A 6-9 record is not a record to fire a coach over, not in a lockout season with a two-week training camp and new pieces to fit together. Not with a sophisticated offense that takes time to learn. Anthony still hasn’t.

    Had Anthony waited for free agency and signed with the Knicks with their cap space, he would be part of a deep and rich team in New York with Raymond Felton as his point guard, Mozgov as center and Gallinari as Sixth Man.

    “I just miss the energy and free-spirited way the team played,’’ one person close to Walsh said of the pre-Melo Knicks. “On any given night, it was anyone’s game to be hot.’’

    D’Antoni called the offense “a wreck.’’ A coaching change to assistant Mike Woodson won’t fix it. It’s putting lipstick on a pig.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    “They traded chemistry for celebrity,’’ one Walsh confidant said. “It wasn’t a basketball trade.’’


    I wish I'd thought of that line.

    It seems that practically nothing could resurrect this woeful pack of downers from their infinite slump.

    I think D'Antoni's gotta go now.

    The system has shown what it's incapable of with this team, and the team is clearly incapable of incorporating the system.

    I'm well sick of repeating what I think the issues are, because, let's face it, you'd have to be clinically blind not to see the problems.

    Would Woodson come in and restore this team to it's 'on paper' potential?

    I doubt it!

    What I don't doubt is that D'Antoni won't adhere to the strengths of the team or adopt an alternate style. I also don't see Baron Davis improving this team in time to stop it from imploding, if ever.

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    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    Bermans argument rings hollow. Yeah management sucks, however trying to pack in a "sophisticated offense" thats not working is a sign of bad coaching. The knicks need a coach who can function around dolans mental issues. see the rangers for an example.

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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    Bermans argument rings hollow. Yeah management sucks, however trying to pack in a "sophisticated offense" thats not working is a sign of bad coaching. The knicks need a coach who can function around dolans mental issues. see the rangers for an example.
    Yup, i agree.But what "sophisticated offense"?Everyone standing on the 3point line, and seeing who can shoot it first, no screens,cuts, or second or third passes.I said it when we hired this guy, he is not!!I repeat...not!!An offensive genus, if you don't agree just watch the knicks players without the ball, there is no body or ball movement.It's quite puzzling how he even got his first NBA coaching job, anyone can coach Steve Nash, because u don't have to, just watch the Suns today, there playing the same way they were under Antoni.
    Last edited by fender0577; Jan 21, 2012 at 10:18.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Alot of the points I've been making are contained in this article.

    People don't want see that there's more to it then MDA for one reason or another.

    And I love how people say he's not an offensives genius, when the things they say don't happen on the court happen quite frequently.

    If you're watching, and you know what to look, for you'd see all kinds of little wrinkles within the overall scheme.

    I'd say MDA prolly has over a hundred plays at his disposal. If I had to guess he'd like to use around 30-40 in regular rotation. I don't think he able to even use that many though w these guys level of understanding coupled w the fact we don't have a real PG to run his stuff.

    Anybody ever seen footage of the guy actually coaching offense?? There's a reason
    why he's almost universally resepected by coaches n players in this regard.

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    Well if we don't have a real PG to run his stuff, then go get someone who can orchestrate a team where the PG doesn't have to average 10.0 assists a game like Mr. Nash.

    Jeff Teague is averaging 5.8, Darren Collinson is averaging 5.4, Jrue Holiday is at 4.8, and Melo is at 4.1. Not that far off of some of the starting PGs on winning teams, and Jrue's team is dominating with him averaging 14.9ppg and 4.8 assists, while shooting 43%.

    Shump and TD combine for 5.3 assists per game, and neither guy looks nearly as competent as Jrue or Darren when "running" the team, and Jrue Holiday is more combo than true point.

    The 76ers rely on Iggy and his smarts/playmaking ability and 4.3 assists per game, since they have a combo guard at the 1. Meanwhile the Knicks have Melo with 4.1 assists and that's it.

    Couldn't the more impressive coach, tailor his team to the fact that he has a combo guard at the 1, and incorporate a game plan that can take advantage of his talents, as opposed to either forcing him to play the point or throwing him to the wolves in a "system" that doesn't lend itself to his talents?

    If the coach is tailoring his system to his players, but they're not responding...isn't it time for him to go? When was the last time an ineffective leader....lead a collective group to victory?

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Alot of the points I've been making are contained in this article.

    People don't want see that there's more to it then MDA for one reason or another.

    And I love how people say he's not an offensives genius, when the things they say don't happen on the court happen quite frequently.

    If you're watching, and you know what to look, for you'd see all kinds of little wrinkles within the overall scheme.

    I'd say MDA prolly has over a hundred plays at his disposal. If I had to guess he'd like to use around 30-40 in regular rotation. I don't think he able to even use that many though w these guys level of understanding coupled w the fact we don't have a real PG to run his stuff.

    Anybody ever seen footage of the guy actually coaching offense?? There's a reason
    why he's almost universally resepected by coaches n players in this regard.
    You could have a thousand plays in your playbook, but if players don't want to play for you they are useless, and every coach in the league probably has that many plays(over a hundred), but a good coach would realized by now, which plays are effective for the talent that they have, if he's such an offensive genus why hasn't he figured out that the plays he's calling aren't working.I think it looks worse that he has all those plays at his disposal and hasn't changed anything yet.If he is so respected by his peers, why did Phil Jackson call him "a **cking idot".
    Last edited by fender0577; Jan 21, 2012 at 11:45.

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    Half this team has quit on Dantoni a week ago. I'm beginning to think they want him gone. They can't be this bad. If they were, they wouldn't had beaten Boston and 76ers. I think the triangle would work here with a real point guard. Shame Melo couldn't see into Dolan's madness, giving away the shop to get him. Maybe he didn't care about winning? He doesn't look mad when they lose

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    Melo cares only about $$$, he wanted to save his max contract based on the prior CBA and get opportunity to make some extra millions by hitting the biggest market in the country.

    I don't see him or Amare taking a huge pay cut to make this team a real contender. This isn't Miami or Boston where stars take less money to win a championship...

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    You could have a thousand plays in your playbook, but if players don't want to play for you they are useless, and every coach in the league probably has that many plays(over a hundred), but a good coach would realized by now, which plays are effective for the talent that they have, if he's such an offensive genus why hasn't he figured out that the plays he's calling aren't working.I think it looks worse that he has all those plays at his disposal and hasn't changed anything yet.If he is so respected by his peers, why did Phil Jackson call him "a **cking idot".
    Dude do you know anything about the league, about the game of basketball?

    Good coaches don't conform to their players, atleast not long term. In a pinch after the Melo trade, yea i could see having to throw some **** together to make it as easy as possible for players who don't know the system.. But long-term, you want your players to run the bread n butter. MDAs offense is proven. It takes time to get the spacing and movement right, and without a point guard the time of the accclimation process is exacerbated.

    That's a bunch of nonsense. you just typed up there. Why did you even waste your time?

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Dude do you know anything about the league, about the game of basketball?

    Good coaches don't conform to their players, atleast not long term. In a pinch after the Melo trade, yea i could see having to throw some **** together to make it as easy as possible for players who don't know the system.. But long-term, you want your players to run the bread n butter. MDAs offense is proven. It takes time to get the spacing and movement right, and without a point guard the time of the accclimation process is exacerbated.

    That's a bunch of nonsense. you just typed up there. Why did you even waste your time?
    Ron, save the potential carpel tunnel. There is just zero honest perspective, or acknowledged underatanding about the league, and the realities of it. Let alone our team.

    Like you stated, and we've stated before, every good coach has a system, and it's management's job to be ruthlessly consistent in getting them the best players, and the right players, and keeping them like that for YEARS to breed necessary consistency.

    We have had major roster changes or upheavels multiple a year of late. Nonetheless, in the first year we had a roster with MDA that could even sniff thinking about playoffs....we made the playoffs, had a good looking team *despite* not being loaded with talent, and having the worst center positon in the NBA...and exceeded almost everyone's expectations, especially the MDA haters on KO.

    But nevermind reality and history getting in the way of a herd to keep on stampeding at the direction of their shepards bidding.....

    Just like it got with Gallo eventually, at a certain point you just gotta save yourself the keystrokes with people who don't even hide their bias and are sloppy like a joe in regurgitating hallow talking points ad nauseum.

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    I just want to keep the core together for more than 365 days. Something that hasn't happened in like 8 years with this team.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Dude do you know anything about the league, about the game of basketball?

    Good coaches don't conform to their players, atleast not long term. In a pinch after the Melo trade, yea i could see having to throw some **** together to make it as easy as possible for players who don't know the system.. But long-term, you want your players to run the bread n butter. MDAs offense is proven. It takes time to get the spacing and movement right, and without a point guard the time of the accclimation process is exacerbated.

    That's a bunch of nonsense. you just typed up there. Why did you even waste your time?
    There is no reason to be rude,and have you not been watching the knicks this season?STAT and Melo are all-star caliber players, who can seem to find any kind of open shots in this "offensive genus" system.So your saying one of those Space Jam characters stole there talent over night,and what system!!!All i see is Iso, is everyone standing on the 3point line watching the ball."It takes time to get the spacing and movement right" what are you talking about, there is in **cking movement, thats the problem.Have you actually been watching the knicks off the ball, there like **cking Statues.Nash offense is proven, not antonis.

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    LOL @ person who is cursing and ranting calling the other rude.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    LOL @ person who is cursing and ranting calling the other rude.
    Never cursed or ranted at Ron, did I?Read my post.Thank u.

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