View Poll Results: For a rep point, guess how many points Jefferies scores tonight.

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  • 1

    2 8.33%
  • 2

    4 16.67%
  • 3

    3 12.50%
  • 4

    3 12.50%
  • 5

    5 20.83%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 7

    1 4.17%
  • 8

    2 8.33%
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    1 4.17%
  • 10 - if more than 10, please add in a post

    3 12.50%
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Thread: Knicks @ Heat: Friday, Jan 27th, 8:00pm. The Gruesome Tale Of 2 Rebuilt Franchises.

  1. #316
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Another problem is our role players dont fit our star players.

    Miami surrounded James, Bosh and Wade with Miller, Haslem, Battier, Chalmers, Anthony, Cole and Jones- shooters, defenders, glue guys.

    New York surrounded Anthony, Stoudemire and Chandler with Shumpert, Fields, Douglas, Walker, Bibby, Jeffries and Harrellson- question marks from game to game.

    Like I've been saying we need to get a pass 1st PG(Sessions) to replace Douglas, replace Jeffries with Novak, replace Fields with Balkman, replace Walker with Redick or a guy who can move without the ball and knock down 3's.

    We gotta build around them this off-season is so important

  2. #317
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    you called that good ball movement lmao we hit 18 3's and lost come one dude Melo is not the problem he's also playing great D this year just because he doesn't have steals or blocks doesn't mean he isn't defending, numbers aren't everything on D
    It was the best ball-movement we had all season.
    Melo & Stat is a problem....when nobody in the lockerroom is bold enough to
    question Melo or Stat about their actions on the court....that's a problem.
    And defense....Melo/Stat been faking-it on defense all season, but then again....
    both superstars been doing that throughout their NBA career.
    In the future....I hope the two dont be on the court at the same time much
    in our rotation.
    Tonight, Bosh & Anthony protected Miami paint from inside scoring well.
    We did not have close to the same affect from Tyson & Stat....the majority
    of Miami points were from inside scoring...

  3. #318
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    ^ Kiya, that's true but the majority of MIA's were also just from sheer supremacy and superiority of Lebron and Wade.

    They got, what, 60pts off over .500% shooting?

    We also were +9 in turnovers to MIA. And had pathetic play from our guards, especially PG, missing countless open look and easy scoring opportunities as a result.

    Our D was again pretty good.

    We were fortunate to have Walker explode.

    To consistently contend with MIA, we nee to:

    limit turnovers
    possess superior guard play by way of starting a legit PG

    And in suit, this needs to create a high-level, super efficient NBA offense -- like what we had last year -- and get Amare and Melo flowing together and firing on all cylinders in the type of co-existence we know to be as essential as it has been elusive.

  4. #319
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Unhappy Full of contradictions.

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    I've beat up on STAT a lot, mainly because his defense and on-court iQ has always rubbed me the wrong way.

    But he showed improvement in those areas tonight.

    STAT showed qualities that transcend whether or not he is getting the 20+ pts at a .600 that we expect and need from him. That's important, and I can respect that.


    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    I can't speak for Ron, but I believe he is assessing that STAT will not be at his best until he is playing a style that lets him play to his absolute best.
    Duh. Really? Who isn't at their best when playing a style that let's them play to their absolute best?

    So the style of putting up 40+ threes doesn't suit STAT?

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    Ya, that's a flaw in STAT, but almost every player is flawed to some major degree. Very few players (Lebron, eg) can just absolutely ball and dominate regardless of teammates and setting.
    Isn't that the kind of PG you seek? We don't have the other kind that can just do what they are asked right? (sarcasm)

    Either they're doing what they are asked, or have the ability to dominate regardless... which is it? What kind of PG's do we have?

    If it's not the dominate type (which I don't think they are), then that means they basically have to do what they are asked... which means when we see how they play, they are doing what they were asked to do. They were told to shoot low percentage shots and "move the ball" (where exactly is by design)

    this produced, an inordinate amount of threes as well as turnovers.

    I love this next one.

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    We factually do not have the personal to operate an offense that will allow STAT to be the MVPesque PF he has been during his career. .

    And it's the simple truth that a PG is the crux of it. Especially given how a PG would be the single most vital thing in repairing and building up the dynamic between Melo and STAT on offense.
    Wow, the 1st part we'll get to later. But here you go again, so a PG is the crux huh? I guess the dominate type?

    How exactly will that overcome the self-defeating qualities of playing like this? Oh' I get it, this PG will be so dominate regardless and be able to make better decisions even though he's being told something else.

    Or is it that regardless of what he is told, he'll dominate? Either way that's a poor generalization, the odds of which given our cap are highly unlikely anyway.

    Proceeding...

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    Yes, we could do a total overhaul and implement from ground up some half-court, set-play based system.
    No we can't. We can't because this is beyond our coaches capabilities, so again no we can't.

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    But you're fooling yourself if you think Amare will thrive like that like you want him to thrive. Same for Fields. And same for the ability for Amare and Melo to co-exist powerfully together.

    2/3 are extremely vital things. The ability for us to contend and every win a title depends upon it.
    I think it was expected for Amare to play like a franchise player. Considering the outcome, he didn't. Had that been in victory your argument would have validity, but since that's not the case, how exactly is expecting a franchise $100 million dollar player to look like one fooling your self?

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    What you see as MDA being stubborn is him not bending what he knows to be a winning formula, to lock down something that isn't as optimal just so we can look a bit better and more logical on the court in the short-term.

    We are getting a PG in Baron soon. And regardless, we will be getting a PG in the off season by some combo of trade and the MLE.
    So is it we don't have the personnel (factually) or is it MOA being stubborn? And basically you said playing in a more traditional fashion was antiquated yesterday. I think you've thrown out so many excuses, you're confused.

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    We have a top 10 NBA defense right now. And it will get better as the team gels, and players like Shumpert improve. AND if Amare shows the improved IQ and willingness he showed tonight.

    MDA had us as the 5th best offense in the NBA last year. And that was without Melo. And it was our 1st year playing as a legit team with some talent.

    If you don't think MDA can't get us back to being at a BARE MINIMUM top 5 offense in the NBA, you're just resistant to and hating the man's style.
    Yes we hate the style. We hate the style that's so evidently self defeating and counterproductive. Top 10 in defense is negated with high turnovers and high volume of low percentage shots. Isn't that how we got to being very sub-.500?

  5. #320
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Dude.. picks are set for our guards umpteen times throughout these games.

    I mean seriously wtf are you watching Kiya.. feck.

    And if anyone at this point thinks the lack of solid point play isn't hurting the team.. idk.. i feel for you.

    Open your eyes people. Lack of adequate PG play is our BIGGEST weakness!
    I gotta wholeheartedly disagree. Ron. Our biggest weakness is we get minimal baskets at the rim. I really would love to watch a game with you and point out what the offense looks like. I dont understand how you miss this huge fact. Will Davis make us better? Absolutely. If healthy. BUT. When any team plays offense the way we do you have to have knock down, no doubt about it shooters. You need at least two of these guys on the court at all times.

    I've watched this team very closely this year. Unless we start shooting 3's at close to a 40% clip the rest of the way BDiddy wont save us.

    Do you realize we shot more 3's than 2 point baskets tonight? Even dumb basketball players would rather you take long jump shots all game long. They're hard to make consistently enough to win.

    It may have happened, but I dont remember us getting another teams key player in foul trouble all season. This is a strategy that cant be used because of they way we play.

    This offense sukks dude. When Davis gets back maybe you'll finally realize what everyone is trying to tell you...

  6. #321
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    Typical live or die by threes... better ball and off the ball movement, but once Miami defense was set I knew it's not going to fly. At least I didn't see much of ballhogging. Fields looks like he's permanently back. Walker was red hot... but Amare and Chandler were neutralized. Well, it wasn't a blowout and I had a lot of fun watching this game.

  7. #322
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    Jeff Gundy said it right yesterday - "to say that Knicks are limited offensively is an understatement"

  8. #323
    BALL DON'T LIE MeloforMayor's Avatar
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    Damn.

    STAT must be feeling like a fool right now after his "hunting in Miami" comments.

    The Heat made a statement in this game with all the dunks and terrific defense on STAT.

  9. #324
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    Originally Posted by InGodsHands
    Jeff Gundy said it right yesterday - "to say that Knicks are limited offensively is an understatement"
    Yes he did.He also said - "If the PG's arent good enough to get you the ball on the pick & roll STAT has to help them out by posting up more"

  10. #325
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    Effort wise this was as hard as our players could play!

    The did a very good job hustling-wise, even Stoudemire didn't bitch out on defense to my surprise.

    Still, our star players are just not as good as the best in the league, we don't have a Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, D-Wade, Chris Paul, Dirk Nowitzki or young Tim Duncan.

    Do you still believe we are going to win a championship with this roster?

    I think this game was as much of an eye-opener as everything we've seen from the Knicks this season. Not because they didn't play well, I think they played very well within their limits, but the truth is we can't beat teams like Miami, the Clippers or Oklahoma in a 7 game series, not even a Baron Davis in his prime could change that.

    Melo and STAT are both top 25, top 30 players - paied and hyped like top 10 players.

    In today's NBA you can't win a ring without having a top 5 or two top 15 players on your roster. The days where the Pistons won it without a true star player are over, because today defensive specialists like the 2004 Ben Wallace or Tyson Chandler in our case are getting paied so much money that it eats alot of cap space, because people know how important they are, but that makes it even more important to ONLY give a max. deal to a top 10, top 12 player.

    Melo and STAT are both overpaied and that's whats killing us, because we can't sign anybody else who's decent. Look at our so called supporting cast.....that's the supporting cast of a lottery team.

    On a positive note, props to the guys playing hard last night. I enjoyed watching this game and I can't criticize them for anthing last night. They played hard and that's all I ever demand, you can lose games (especially to Miami), but yu gotta play hard and that's what they did, even Amar'e came out of his closet for once. Kudos to them.

  11. #326
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    I gotta wholeheartedly disagree. Ron. Our biggest weakness is we get minimal baskets at the rim. I really would love to watch a game with you and point out what the offense looks like. I dont understand how you miss this huge fact. Will Davis make us better? Absolutely. If healthy. BUT. When any team plays offense the way we do you have to have knock down, no doubt about it shooters. You need at least two of these guys on the court at all times.

    I've watched this team very closely this year. Unless we start shooting 3's at close to a 40% clip the rest of the way BDiddy wont save us.

    Do you realize we shot more 3's than 2 point baskets tonight? Even dumb basketball players would rather you take long jump shots all game long. They're hard to make consistently enough to win.

    It may have happened, but I dont remember us getting another teams key player in foul trouble all season. This is a strategy that cant be used because of they way we play.

    This offense sukks dude. When Davis gets back maybe you'll finally realize what everyone is trying to tell you...


    *CLAPS

    That's how you know the difference between those who've played and those who watch; the casual fan versus the knowledgeable one

    It's not a matter of opinion anymore. It's basketball 101... basketball common-sense. And no offense to the casual fan...

    but they don't belong in a discussion with us. All it causes is arguments because they don't understand. **** even Kiya understands; I can tell by his posts.

  12. #327
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Melo and STAT are both overpaied and that's whats killing us, because we can't sign anybody else who's decent. Look at our so called supporting cast.....that's the supporting cast of a lottery team.
    but they r overpaid for only the next 3 seasons... after that they are off the cap...

  13. #328
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    Bill Walker should play more in the 4th quarter... is d'Antoni still the coach ??

  14. #329
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Your right but Kelly Tripucka is in house more than Hahn is...Hahn tells you the real problems but never includes Mike D but he does question things often, he jsut doesnt say "I dont get Mike D on this one"
    Yeah I only mentioned Hahn because I follow him on twitter and he use to be brutally honest and people appreciated that. Now not so much.

  15. #330
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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    If you don't think MDA can't get us back to being at a BARE MINIMUM top 5 offense in the NBA, you're just resistant to and hating the man's style.
    We have Stat, Melo and some useful role players if used correctly. What coach shouldn't be able to make us a top offensive team??? You're making it seem like Antoni is working some type of magic here. Also, WHAT STYLE? How does he differ from other coaches other than living by the 3 and having a very limited play book?

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