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Thread: The Bigger Picture

  1. #16
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Doesn't work like that with RFA. If you have 10mil in cap space and you have a RFA but want to sign a UFA you can only sign 1. Thats why if we signed Amar'e and say Joe Johnson we would have had to renounce David Lee's rights.
    This is incorrect. You can sign a UFA while still having a RFA, if you have the cap space, which we did. To retain a player's Bird Rights, it counts as 1.5 * the player's final year of salary against the cap. Wilson's final year salary was $2.13 mil. Therefore it would have cost us $3.195 mil against our cap space. We had roughly $18 mil in cap space (Curry and Azubuike coming off the books). We signed Tyson for $14 mil. $14 mil + $3.195 mil left us enough to sign Tyson and Wilson.

    Maybe you should think twice about insulting people and calling them idiots when you don't even know the facts yourself.

  2. #17
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    This is incorrect. You can sign a UFA while still having a RFA, if you have the cap space, which we did. To retain a player's Bird Rights, it counts as 1.5 * the player's final year of salary against the cap. Wilson's final year salary was $2.13 mil. Therefore it would have cost us $3.195 mil against our cap space. We had roughly $18 mil in cap space (Curry and Azubuike coming off the books). We signed Tyson for $14 mil. $14 mil + $3.195 mil left us enough to sign Tyson and Wilson.

    Maybe you should think twice about insulting people and calling them idiots when you don't even know the facts yourself.
    There's no way Wilson's cap number would be 3.195, he's signing a whole new contract unless he only took the Qualitying offer of 3.195, but he would of been locked up long term so his cap number is whatever his extension says it is. If a team like say New Jersey offers him 9mil per the Knicks with the new CBA rules have 3 days to match it meaning either he walks in 3 days or they match it then signing Chandler, so Chandler's 14mil plus whatever we would sign Wilson for say 9mil thats 23mil, having only 18mil cap space means we dont have room for both. If we sign Wilson 1st, then we only got 9mil to work with, who do we get with that, signing Chandler 1st at 14mil leaves 4mil, the only way Wilson comes back is for the QO, which he wouldn't

    Learn about the cap before you question somebody who really knows the game of basketball.

    Some of you guys are dumb as fcuk, dont know **** about numbers

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    Originally Posted by CA7
    But now Miami has the role players that fit and their coach developed a system to play to their strengths. Why do people wanna blow up our big 3, just surround them with guys who fit, fcuk name value. Just get tough minded glue guys and a no non-sense coach
    This I do agree with pretty much 100%.

    I honestly don't think Melo and Amare are unable to "co-exist".

    If anything, I think they could play together and be individually great and be even more effective as a "duo", than as individuals.

  4. #19
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    There's no way Wilson's cap number would be 3.195, he's signing a whole new contract unless he only took the Qualitying offer of 3.195, but he would of been locked up long term so his cap number is whatever his extension says it is. If a team like say New Jersey offers him 9mil per the Knicks with the new CBA rules have 3 days to match it meaning either he walks in 3 days or they match it then signing Chandler, so Chandler's 14mil plus whatever we would sign Wilson for say 9mil thats 23mil, having only 18mil cap space means we dont have room for both. If we sign Wilson 1st, then we only got 9mil to work with, who do we get with that, signing Chandler 1st at 14mil leaves 4mil, the only way Wilson comes back is for the QO, which he wouldn't

    Learn about the cap before you question somebody who really knows the game of basketball.

    Some of you guys are dumb as fcuk, dont know **** about numbers
    You can go over the cap to resign your restricted free agents. For 1st-round draft picks, restricted free agency is only allowed after a team exercises its option for a fourth year, and the team makes a Qualifying Offer at the Rookie-scale amount after the fourth year is completed. The QO is made to make a player restricted so it would have been given, regardless. What you said previously, that a team cannot sign a UFA and a RFA was incorrect.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jan 29, 2012 at 21:20.

  5. #20
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    You can go over the cap to resign your restricted free agents. For 1st-round draft picks, restricted free agency is only allowed after a team exercises its option for a fourth year, and the team makes a Qualifying Offer at the Rookie-scale amount after the fourth year is completed. The QO is made to make a player restricted so it would have been given, regardless. What you said previously, that a team cannot sign a UFA and a RFA was incorrect.
    Remember in the summer of 2010 when analyst were saying the only way the Knicks can sign both James and Stoudemire is to renounce David Lee's rights, the reason is we were over the cap so David Lee's cap number already figured on the cap, his new contract value would increase his cap number, meaning the 11mil he makes per year counts against our cap. We had 33mil in space, David Lee's 11mil takes away the from the 33mil, 22mil, room for STAT and Felton.

    Also as for waiting for Melo in Free Agency negated re-signing Wilson Chandler because of both of their cap numbers. So its either Wilson or Melo, letting go of Felton and bringing back Billups was no big deal, losing Mozgov didn't matter we got Jerome Jordan. We lost Anthony Randolph but got back Corey Brewer so essentially the trade was Anthony/Billups/Brewer for Felton/Gallinari/Randolph/Mozgov not a bad deal in retrospect. of course we let go of Billups and Brewer which sucks but nonetheless the deal isn't as bad as guys make it seem

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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Remember in the summer of 2010 when analyst were saying the only way the Knicks can sign both James and Stoudemire is to renounce David Lee's rights, the reason is we were over the cap so David Lee's cap number already figured on the cap, his new contract value would increase his cap number, meaning the 11mil he makes per year counts against our cap. We had 33mil in space, David Lee's 11mil takes away the from the 33mil, 22mil, room for STAT and Felton.

    Also as for waiting for Melo in Free Agency negated re-signing Wilson Chandler because of both of their cap numbers. So its either Wilson or Melo, letting go of Felton and bringing back Billups was no big deal, losing Mozgov didn't matter we got Jerome Jordan. We lost Anthony Randolph but got back Corey Brewer so essentially the trade was Anthony/Billups/Brewer for Felton/Gallinari/Randolph/Mozgov not a bad deal in retrospect. of course we let go of Billups and Brewer which sucks but nonetheless the deal isn't as bad as guys make it seem
    Denver became a more efficient offensive/defensive team post-Anthony. So it was a terrible deal. Denver became to the deepest team in the league, with one of the best futures in the NBA. They didn't lose anything in letting Melo go. So whats this praise for Melo for? Knicks have the same record as the Nets.

    A team > A superstar for you to suck on.

    Stop deep throating Melo's name. He does not KNOW you, cut that out.


    Actually Denver is ranked 4th in the NBA by ESPN. The point differential is +7.21. Knicks? -1.90. **** the Melo deal. It was just like the Curry/Crawford deal. Too desperate, make the other team better, we get worse.

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Denver became a more efficient offensive/defensive team post-Anthony. So it was a terrible deal. Denver became to the deepest team in the league, with one of the best futures in the NBA. They didn't lose anything in letting Melo go. So whats this praise for Melo for? Knicks have the same record as the Nets.

    A team > A superstar for you to suck on.

    Stop deep throating Melo's name. He does not KNOW you, cut that out.


    Actually Denver is ranked 4th in the NBA by ESPN. The point differential is +7.21. Knicks? -1.90. **** the Melo deal. It was just like the Curry/Crawford deal. Too desperate, make the other team better, we get worse.
    1st off no one is deep throating Melo, 2 you must be deep throatin every player we lost since they all you talk about, 3 this is nothin like the Crawford/Curry deal you are an ass to think so. Some of y'all on here is bitchin about the wrong dude. Blame Melo for coming blah blah blah same **** every day which you. You sound so fcukin dumb its hilarious.

  8. #23
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    You words are bloodless, like Melo's game.

    Rubio >>>>> Melo.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Denver became a more efficient offensive/defensive team post-Anthony. So it was a terrible deal. Denver became to the deepest team in the league, with one of the best futures in the NBA. They didn't lose anything in letting Melo go. So whats this praise for Melo for? Knicks have the same record as the Nets.

    A team > A superstar for you to suck on.

    Stop deep throating Melo's name. He does not KNOW you, cut that out.

    I disagree with Den having a future with current team at best their a 2nd round exist in the playoffs you need atleast one solid star player to carry you. The Nuggets have been better since the trade but the Knicks still have a far greater potential to be a lot better than Denver ever will be with that team.

  10. #25
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYCLakerfan
    I disagree with Den having a future with current team at best their a 2nd round exist in the playoffs you need atleast one solid star player to carry you. The Nuggets have been better since the trade but the Knicks still have a far greater potential to be a lot better than Denver ever will be with that team.
    Both teams lost in the 1st round last year, if STAT and Billups never got hurt I think our series turns out a lot different. Not to mention, Melo did what Gallo, Ill Will, Felton or Mozgov couldn't do and put us on his back

    42pts, 17rebs, 6ast.

    They hate Melo so much its a shame

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Both teams lost in the 1st round last year, if STAT and Billups never got hurt I think our series turns out a lot different. Not to mention, Melo did what Gallo, Ill Will, Felton or Mozgov couldn't do and put us on his back

    42pts, 17rebs, 6ast.

    They hate Melo so much its a shame

    I don't think a lot of ppl realize the Melo trade was done for POTENTIAL even with how bad the Knicks are playing if everyone was to stop underachieving so drastically especially Amare the Knicks could be one of the best teams in the league.

    As for Denver this is as good as it gets when the game slows down in the 4th of a playoff game you need one or two go to scorers Denver does not have this they will be an excellent regular season team but lose every year in the first or second round.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by NYCLakerfan
    I don't think a lot of ppl realize the Melo trade was done for POTENTIAL even with how bad the Knicks are playing if everyone was to stop underachieving so drastically especially Amare the Knicks could be one of the best teams in the league.

    As for Denver this is as good as it gets when the game slows down in the 4th of a playoff game you need one or two go to scorers Denver does not have this they will be an excellent regular season team but lose every year in the first or second round.
    which is what they dont get. we can find another Gallo easily, another Wilson, another Felton. Carmelo Anthony's are hard to get your hands on. Guys dont tend to wanna play in New York because of things like this, the media, fake fans and scrutiny over every detail. No patience, forget the good you've done. Its pitiful it pisses me off. I call Melo out when he plays bad but I know when a bucket is needed he's the one who's gettin the rock and Ima live and die with him as the leader of my team the same way you ride with Kobe

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    Originally Posted by NYCLakerfan
    I disagree with Den having a future with current team at best their a 2nd round exist in the playoffs you need atleast one solid star player to carry you. The Nuggets have been better since the trade but the Knicks still have a far greater potential to be a lot better than Denver ever will be with that team.
    I'd agree with that. But how much more faith can we have in this franchise from doing the right thing, and what it takes, and actually getting there?

    People need to open their eyes too and look past names, and at reality, where things currently are at. I agree w Metro on that. Names are just that, names -- and if you have rooted for the Knicks for a long time, you'll know how bad we've been snookered by names, even ones that looked good.

    DEN has ongoing flexibility -- when it's time for them to pounce on a superstar talen that fits their team, they can and they will.

    Second, right now DEN has the talent and quantity of all-star level players to compete on a championship level akin to Detroit's last title team. Don't think they're some little engine that couldn't.

    Lawson, Gallinari, Nene are all-star caliber players. Right now. And they are only going to get improve.

    Don't be surprised if Gallo ends the year with a PER close to, if not equal to, Melo. And higher than STAT. Harsh, harsh but true.

    Andre Miller and Harrington are prolly the best 6th and 7th men in the league right now. Afflalo is just more efficient scoring and range.

    The team is loaded with quality, versatile bench players -- whether it's the 3pt shooting of Fernandez, the energy and rebounding of Faried, the defense and versatility of Brewer.

    If Moz improves, or they bring in a Chandler-quality Center, I have no doubt the Nuggets will be able to compete with any of the superstar-studded teams in the league, as their core only improves further.

    And why is DEN in this position....Ya, they lost an all-star in his prime in Melo, but what did they really lose vs gain at the end of the day?

    The Curry deal isn't the same. Yet it essentially is, as in both deals Dolan put his paw prints all over his prematurely ejaculating over a player, and bending over as deep as possible during negotiations with another franchise.

    The Curry deal has directly lead to the Chicago Bulls' renaissance, and possibly dynasty.

    I don't go out of my way to slobber over another team, but real is real. Nobody would have to point out the obvious quality of the DEN team and their franchise's health if people didn't overcompensate trying to **** over them, to hide the dysfunction the Knicks are in.

  14. #29
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    I'd agree with that. But how much more faith can we have in this franchise from doing the right thing, and what it takes, and actually getting there?

    People need to open their eyes too and look past names, and at reality, where things currently are at. I agree w Metro on that. Names are just that, names -- and if you have rooted for the Knicks for a long time, you'll know how bad we've been snookered by names, even ones that looked good.

    DEN has ongoing flexibility -- when it's time for them to pounce on a superstar talen that fits their team, they can and they will.

    Second, right now DEN has the talent and quantity of all-star level players to compete on a championship level akin to Detroit's last title team. Don't think they're some little engine that couldn't.

    Lawson, Gallinari, Nene are all-star caliber players. Right now. And they are only going to get improve.

    Don't be surprised if Gallo ends the year with a PER close to, if not equal to, Melo. And higher than STAT. Harsh, harsh but true.

    Andre Miller and Harrington are prolly the best 6th and 7th men in the league right now. Afflalo is just more efficient scoring and range.

    The team is loaded with quality, versatile bench players -- whether it's the 3pt shooting of Fernandez, the energy and rebounding of Faried, the defense and versatility of Brewer.

    If Moz improves, or they bring in a Chandler-quality Center, I have no doubt the Nuggets will be able to compete with any of the superstar-studded teams in the league, as their core only improves further.

    And why is DEN in this position....Ya, they lost an all-star in his prime in Melo, but what did they really lose vs gain at the end of the day?

    The Curry deal isn't the same. Yet it essentially is, as in both deals Dolan put his paw prints all over his prematurely ejaculating over a player, and bending over as deep as possible during negotiations with another franchise.

    The Curry deal has directly lead to the Chicago Bulls' renaissance, and possibly dynasty.

    I don't go out of my way to slobber over another team, but real is real. Nobody would have to point out the obvious quality of the DEN team and their franchise's health if people didn't overcompensate trying to **** over them, to hide the dysfunction the Knicks are in.
    Denver is the type of organization where they either build through the draft(Melo, Lawson) make a trade for a young unproven guy(Nene, Afflalo, JR Smith) or throw huge money at a guy(Kenyon Martin). Thats how they built their 1st team. They gambled on AI and lost, re-did that mistake by gettting Billups, I honestly think they are done going after big names and will likely wai to strike gold through the draft like they did with Melo, difference is they got a great coach in George Karl and a city where they love the team and the media doesn't bash them for playing bad.

    Denver's team currently put together is great for the regular season, jam packed games, depth, hard working guys but they lack a go to guy for crunch time. I heard someone say they are similar to Chicago, difference is the Bulls got D.Rose( A franchise guy), when the playoffs come and when we get a real 82 Game season with more rest, longer camps and more practice I think thats when we judge this trade. Because since the deal neither team has won a playoff series

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    LOL, first Chandler would have to sign an offer sheet with another team and unlike Lamelo he isn't a money bitch and really wanted and still wants to play for the Knicks which makes me think he'd take $3.1M/year just to stay in NY... and seriously stop insulting other users, especially vets of this board like Crazy or metro.

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