A lot of blame on D'Antoni, but really the core problem lies in our lack of balance.
I don't really care for D'Antoni, like I don't care for the USA president.
This team has zero balance.
Melo and Amare negate each other out. I told you last year these guys can't play together, they both have similar tendencies except Melo is more of perimeter chucker. Both guys also play without ball movement, its foreign to them. Soft and weak defenders. This was a bad idea from the start and I never supported it . These are our two best players, at best they may lead the Knicks to a 40 win season, but thats our peak. Amare and Melo won't be in their prime forever (I give them 3-4 years till we see them decline).
You believe we'll be a championship contender by then? With no cap space, draft picks and short amount of time to develop that championship chemistry. Stop the denial. This roster is weak. Jefferies, Douglas, Fields, Walker, Balkman, Lin, Bibby, and even Davis, Harrellson and Jordan all can potentially be out of the NBA in a season or two for their reasons. These players are weak, has beens, full of potential but no consistency, and NBDL talent. It is a WEAK ROSTER.
Our best roster we ever had was PRE-Melo. Ever. We blew it up for Carmelo and that will haunt us forever.
We obviously need a new owner first of all, everyone talks about D'Antoni and etc...but Dolan has sucked the life out of this franchise for so long...we seriously need to start a movement and get this man to sell the Knicks. Tell Spike Lee to make a record breaking movie, get cash and buy the Knicks. We need people in this organization WHO CARE.
Like Kiyaman said it best, D'Antoni is a celebrity coach. Amare is a celebrity, and Melo as well. Seems like Tyson is the only one who came to the Knicks to play like a warrior with an immortal will to win.
Melo and Amare are bloodless on the court.
Amare is showing his true intentions with all these advertisements he's involved with. F*ck both of them for using NYC for more glamour and not representing New York basketball. For the past decade, the *****fication of the Knicks done by these punkass overpaid NBAers has been a crime. NYK was a strong tough tradition...some of the most classic teams of all time...passionate basketball...all gone due to greedy *****ass NBAers who want glamour instead of continuing that tradition.
Metros 6 Step Plan.
1. Kidnap Dolan, force him to sell the Knicks to Spike Lee
2. Fire D'Antoni and staff. Hire a staff of Jeff Van Gundy, Patrick Ewing, H20, and Charlie Ward. Hire me as the athletic trainer, f*ck Roger Hines.
3. Trade Amare
4. Trade Melo
5. Keep Chandler, Shumpert, Harrellson, Balkman. Their defense prowess will keep us competitive.
6. Acquire draft picks and quality talent through the draft.
3. Trade Amare
Acquire two young prospects who play D with All Star potential
D. Diop (2 year rem)
K. Walker (future PG)
B. Biyombo (future C)
2012 2nd rounder
Bobcats, worst team in the league need an all star caliber player and build around him
PG - Augustin/Douglas
SG - Henderson/Walker/Higgins
SF - Maggette/Fields/Brown
PF - Thomas/White
C - Stoudimire/Mullens
Draft Anthony Davis in 2012, Bobcats have playoff caliber team
4. Trade Melo
2012 1st round pick
Cleveland is another franchise thats in need of all star type player.
PG - Irving/Sessions/Gibson
SG - Parker/Eyenga
SF - Anthony
PF - Thompson/Harangody
C - Varejao/Hollins/Erden
Now, the New Knicks...
PG - Walker/Davis/Bibby
SG - Shumpert/Gee
SF - Diaw/Casspi/Balkman
PF - Jamison/Samuels/Harrellson
C - Chandler/Biyombo/Diop
Team upgraded with more passing, defense, youth, expiring contracts, and balance.
With a 2012 pick, now thats heading to the right direction.
Get out of here with that corny sh*t.
I agree that this team needs to be blown up.
The Melo trade was one of the worst in the history of the NBA.
The Knicks were already a thin team when they traded away virtually everyone for an overrated chucker that doesn't defend, doesn't make others better, doesn't get along with others, turns the ball over too much, doesn't fit with Amare and doesn't fit the coach.
It's hard to imagine anyone was dumb enough to be in favor of that trade let alone actually make it!
Now we have 2 marginal all stars at MAX SALARIES, a good C, and a bunch of "D" league caliber players, no cap space, no picks, little upside etc...
We are in just as bad a shape now as when Walsh came to the Knicks and started fixing Isiah's mess.
Isn't Amare adept at moving toward the basket? Drawing fouls? As is Melo who can score from the post?
I'm torn. Truthfully, if we did make a trade of Melo or Amare, I'd only want it to be for us ending up with Deron Williams in return.
On the one hand, I just want to did this team of the stink that's come to it...It's almost too much to bear.
I can't help but think how the team last year, pre-Melo, would look *this* year, if it just added Chandler and had another year to gel as a team and for the players' to improve as individuals.
But we looked bad pre-Melo, too, in the beginning last season, until Felton acclimated running the offense and working with Amare. And we looked bad post-Melo, too, until the team had a little time to gel some before the playoffs.
Look at the top teams in the league the past several years, to name just a few:
Bulls -- Derrick Rose
Thunder -- Westbrook
Mavs -- Kidd
Celtics -- Rondo
MIA -- Lebron, who is a more effective, willing, and crisp passer than pretty much any PG in the league outside of the very upper crust
Spurs -- Parker
And what coincided with the 76'ers and the Grizzlies suddenly getting pretty legit? The sudden emergence of Holliday and Conley as legitimate, starting PGs.
The combination of Melo being added to Amare, with no point guard this season, is a recipe for disaster.
There is no other way around it.
But that is also why I'm holding off hope and don't want to see this team blown up, as much as it pains me to see it right now and look at all those paw prints of James Dolan on it, while DEN has fun and is playing so well with a PG who reminds me of Felton, and of course Gallinari leading the way, with Moz as their starting C no less.
The emergence of a PG won't just have the obvious winning effect that it has on teams; but it will have a profound effect on the basketball relationship between Melo and Amare.
Every single problem you could imagine between Amare and Melo playing together is present, and maximized to its greatest extent, without a real PG.
Every single possibility for Amare and Melo being able to actually thrive off each other, is impossible without one.
Today we could of looked like
Thats an elite team.
It also has cap room.
EDIT -- it's basically a richer man's version of the current 76'ers team, or last years' Grizzey team!
Love the passion and ideas in the thread even though I really don't agree with you for the most part.
I do agree that our "role" players are garbage. And as Knicks fans we tend to overrate them because we see them every game.
I remember seeing all the "Toney Douglas" threads pre season and all the confidence people had in him. He is garbage as a point guard. He's a decent combo guard off the bench but thats it.
And the rest of our role players suck. I'm sorry but we've surrounded Carmelo, Amare and Chandler with nothing. Where's our 3 pt shooters? Lebron and D-Wade has Chalmers, Miller, Battier, and James Jones. All those guys help create more SPACE for those two to operate with. Even when they're not knocking down shots, the other team has to respect their range.That's exactly what Amare and Melo do not have. There's no space. No room for them to operate, to do their "thing".
Now I'm torn on the Melo-Amare dynamic. Last year I saw Amare really flow in the offense. He'd let the game come to him unless the team was in dire straights or if he was rolling. I do think this combination can work if we can get ourselves a decent point guard who can actually RUN the freaking pick and roll with Amare or TC. But then again I'm not totally sold.
If Lebron and Wade can work things out, I have some hope that Amare and Melo can to (and yes I know Miami's big 2 is better than ours). But like I said I'm torn, I just want to give things more time. Hopefully Davis can help them mesh.
Dude I am not trying to play you but your trades have us sending out max players who have been all stars for year for trash.... These trade ideas would go down in Knick lore infamy. That alone makes your idea seem based more on change for change sake and less based on growth. Right now the sharks are circling the Knicks trying to get an easy kill via a trade. EVERY team in the league knows the Knicks trade horribly. Why would the Knicks trade Melo and/or Amare for trash and picks when picks are always gambles? Here is my plan.
2) let Baron Davis play
3) trade some of out role-players for better role-players or a pick around a package centered on Jerome Jordan (He is an actual Center)
4) sign JR smith for the mini 2 year deal (he might be that desperate)
5) go into next offseason and use the full MLE on depth
6) get a new coach who isn't afraid of star player.
7) win the east.
and what the hell do all your points mean? They're truely ignorant.
2. F*ck Baron Davis. Even if he plays great, he's a Tracy McGrady rental. We need a full time guy who can give us a long term commitment to the PG position. This is the ERA of point guards, and we are the worst in the NBA right in that department, with or without Davis.
3. What trade value does Jerome James has? Initially he's valueless besides his height and youth, hasn't produced in the NBA or showed signs of greatness. He is what he is, a 12th man.
4. JR Smith, Melo, and Amare sharing the ball...man you're really showing your unlimited range of knowledge on ball movement, shot selection, defense and team chemistry. So JR Smith is the best solution you can come up with at SG? JR Smith is a polished Bill Walker. POINTLESS.
5. DEPTH? Present to me a list of MLE free agents that can help us with depth.
6. What does being afraid of a star player has to do with the ROSTER not being GOOD enough to compete? Thats a myth. We don't need a star player to be successful. We were looking competitive and playoff bound PRE-Melo...look at Philadephia, Memphis, Indiana, Atlanta, Denver, Utah, Houston...all these teams are in playoff contention and aren't playing with an overrated glamour player. GTFO with that bull.
7. Win the east? Thats it? No championship? We going to do it up like Kidd's Nets or LeBron's Cavs? O aight, I see you.
The team you came up with looks like the type of team full of trash players that would be lottery bound for 3 years. Also yeah I would take JR smith because if like you said he becomes a ball hog there is this thing called a "6th man" where he could come off the bench and score.
Trading both Melo and/or Amare is like when the Knicks traded Zach Randolph because Eddy Curry was a fat ass. At most you trade 1 and then build around the other. Your deal is bad. The best player involved for the Knicks right now is Cassipi & Jamison with future hopes on Kemba and Biyombo. That team isn't championship caliber its at best first round fodder for a better team which is where the knicks are now. But at worse the knicks have one bad contract that can be moved for depth. your whole team idea would be hard as heck to fix when it goes wrong.
Like I said if they did your plan which they would not it would go down in knick infamy as the time the knicks had stars and instead of at worse altering the team around one of them decided to trade all of them for crappy pieces.
Also yeah I said win the east, I could of said championship but it doesn't matter its hypothetical. Also the team I made up in my mind would whoop the team you made up in your minds ass.
Last edited by Wargames; Jan 29, 2012 at 15:28.