View Poll Results: What to do with Lin?

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  • Let him walk

    16 28.57%
  • Resign him and keep him long term

    27 48.21%
  • Resign him and trade him January 2013 with Amare

    13 23.21%
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Thread: Jeremy Lin

  1. #1096
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    Originally Posted by goldenchild1688
    Felton is not a bad shooter and didn't just have one little hot month like you make it seem. Plus he continued his solid play in Denver that same season to finish the year upping his 3pt% to 45% while sharing the back court. Guys we call great shooters now a days barely shoot 45% from the field.

    He isn't great nor poor but was solid in recent seasons like I said.

    He came into the league shooting just under 40% and upped his percentage the yr before we got him to 45% with the Bobcats and shot around 43% in between his time with us and Denver which is on par with most viable guards in the league. Not spectacular but not putrid either.

    and can we really with a 25 game stretch say LIn is much better for that matter? Did his production as well not start to tally off? I think both came as a direct result from Antoni doing what he is known to do and even did to Duhon who had a nice little run while he was here, and that's run players into the ground with his short rotations. No surprise all 3 of those pgs started off hot under him then started to look burnt out. Note worthy is all were pgs who were not at the time use to logging heavy mins. Lin just got thrusted into a starting role, Duhon was a career backup and and Felton also started to share pg duties in CHA while playing in more slow downed offense.

    You use 1 out of shape year during a lockout season to determine he's a worse defender then Lin but overlook the fact he played well his last yr on D for the Bobcats and drew some praise for it. Even here in NYK he was and most people said he did a good job on defense and was better then we had even anticipated.

    If you want to argue Lin is better and going to produce numbers backing up he's almost 5 mill a yr better for that matter that's fine go ahead but please be fair in your assertions. I like Lin too and think he has a bright future but I refuse to become too vested in any player to the point my judgement is clouded. I'm not happy to see Lin go as well but I'm also not happy when my team is put in a compromising position.

    I agree the guy as a professional had no business showing up in the manner he did. but if I'm going off his career both collegiate and 7 yrs in, it's hard for me to now categorize him as a lazy unmotivated individual when i saw far more from him that outweighs this past seasons.

    No PUN!!
    Felton didn't just have one hot month?

    In November of 2010 his 3-point percentage was 36.7%. It was the only month in which his 3-point percentage was over 35% when he was in NY. December was 33.3%, January was 29%, February was 27.5%. That is the definition of a streaky shooter. He shot 45% in a small sample of games and we all know shooting statistics can vary in a small sample like that. His career 3-point percentage is 33%. He shot under it with us, and it's absolutely ridiculous to call him anything but a mediocre 3-point shooter at best. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that his 3-point percentages are so bad that he shouldn't take 3's, ever.

    His FG% with us is also inflated because of the month of November where he shot 47.5%. Of course he didn't keep that up and fell to 41.4% in December, then 37.3% in January, which is why he lost his all-star spot - because after a really hot first month, everyone realized that he just isn't a great shooter. He's not the worst shooter in the world but to say he is a good one would be a real stretch, considering, well, he's not. 42% isn't exactly good, and his shot selection is terrible.

    And look up the numbers. Lin was a great PG when he, Melo, and Amar'e were on the floor with Woodson as the coach. When Woodson first became coach and started coaching Lin, Melo, and Amar'e together, the Knicks looked unstoppable...that was when they went on that huge winning streak and they were blowing out every team they ran into.

    And Felton is not a good defender. The Bobcats were destroyed by the Magic largely because Felton was utterly unable to do anything against Jameer Nelson. During that playoff series Felton shot 40%, 30.8% from 3's, and averaged 5 assists per game and 11.8 PPG, compare to Nelson who, with Felton guarding him, averaged 25 PPG on 48.3% shooting.

    My judgment isn't clouded. I'm simply calling the numbers as I see them, and the numbers and the eye test tell me that Felton is a mediocre-shooting PG with bad shot selection and isn't a great defender. And at the very least, with Jeremy Lin, there are no concerns that he will show up to camp unmotivated or uninterested in winning. With Felton, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find him overweight in camp, because he does it every single year. Just not to the extent that he did last year.

  2. #1097
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    Originally Posted by Uncle Robo
    Ok, but I don't think the world is convinced of anything. His return may have become more uncertain due to Felton's signing, but no one knows for sure what happens until Tuesday night. We are all speculating. You might as well go to Vegas and bet Red or Black on roulette.
    That's exactly what stocks do. They rise and fall based on SPECULATION.

    Yes, nobody knows for sure if Lin is staying or leaving. But if the overwhelming speculation is that he's leaving, then the stock will fall.

    Just like stocks rise when people THINK a company is going to announce a new product. Nothing has to be for certain for the value of a company to change dramatically.

  3. #1098
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    Yes, but if Knicks end up signing Lin, then you will have a short squeeze rally as shorts scramble to cover.

    All the news articles are quoting the same unnamed source endless times. There are better stocks to speculate than MSG, I don't see a great risk/reward here.

    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    That's exactly what stocks do. They rise and fall based on SPECULATION.

    Yes, nobody knows for sure if Lin is staying or leaving. But if the overwhelming speculation is that he's leaving, then the stock will fall.

    Just like stocks rise when people THINK a company is going to announce a new product. Nothing has to be for certain for the value of a company to change dramatically.

  4. #1099
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    Maybe Dolan is shorting MSG stocks from offshore accounts while he delayed matching Houston's offer.

  5. #1100
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Felton didn't just have one hot month?

    In November of 2010 his 3-point percentage was 36.7%. It was the only month in which his 3-point percentage was over 35% when he was in NY. December was 33.3%, January was 29%, February was 27.5%. That is the definition of a streaky shooter. He shot 45% in a small sample of games and we all know shooting statistics can vary in a small sample like that. His career 3-point percentage is 33%. He shot under it with us, and it's absolutely ridiculous to call him anything but a mediocre 3-point shooter at best. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that his 3-point percentages are so bad that he shouldn't take 3's, ever.

    His FG% with us is also inflated because of the month of November where he shot 47.5%. Of course he didn't keep that up and fell to 41.4% in December, then 37.3% in January, which is why he lost his all-star spot - because after a really hot first month, everyone realized that he just isn't a great shooter. He's not the worst shooter in the world but to say he is a good one would be a real stretch, considering, well, he's not. 42% isn't exactly good, and his shot selection is terrible.

    And look up the numbers. Lin was a great PG when he, Melo, and Amar'e were on the floor with Woodson as the coach. When Woodson first became coach and started coaching Lin, Melo, and Amar'e together, the Knicks looked unstoppable...that was when they went on that huge winning streak and they were blowing out every team they ran into.

    And Felton is not a good defender. The Bobcats were destroyed by the Magic largely because Felton was utterly unable to do anything against Jameer Nelson. During that playoff series Felton shot 40%, 30.8% from 3's, and averaged 5 assists per game and 11.8 PPG, compare to Nelson who, with Felton guarding him, averaged 25 PPG on 48.3% shooting.

    My judgment isn't clouded. I'm simply calling the numbers as I see them, and the numbers and the eye test tell me that Felton is a mediocre-shooting PG with bad shot selection and isn't a great defender. And at the very least, with Jeremy Lin, there are no concerns that he will show up to camp unmotivated or uninterested in winning. With Felton, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find him overweight in camp, because he does it every single year. Just not to the extent that he did last year.
    You must have completely skimmed over what I said about Antoni in reference to players production dropping at the pg Position dating back to Duhon as well as Lin's who you so cleverly omitted. You supported my case without even knowing it to start your argument lol. Then I'm sure you also by mistake being you want to just divide up his whole yr and not look at it as an entity forgot to mention he shot 45% from 3 after heading to DEN for a 21 game span to end the year. 4 less then Lin Played the entire season.

    The word I used was solid. not exactly The same as good or great. Solid means within normal range or on par with avg production. Look at his past few yrs as he developed as a player and like I said he was around 43%. Are you arguing that's not on par with players at the guard position or way below average? If not then I don't see your point. Kobe shot 43% this season. Ray Allen one of the best shooters in the league who was coveted was at 45%. Westbrook is a career 43 percent shooter and he's far less perimeter oriented then Felton which skews his numbers. If you look at the league avg hes on par with it also

    You saying you would go as far as him not being able to shoot 3s is a joke and even the Lin supporters who want him here at all cost would at least agree with that.

    Lin was a great pg when he was on the floor with them? for the most part yes he was good but did struggle in a few games, some blowouts even when the team as a whole prospered. I'm not even going to mention the game against Miami when dude could barely get the ball across half court and was ripped and played not by all NBA defensive player Wade but Mario Chalmers. Even if it was Wade an elite on ball defender there was no excuse to be owned in that fashion. But even still Lin's good too me far outweighed his negative. I thought he brought great exuberance to the team. by the way did you miss how well Amare also looked with Felton and how both ran the pick and roll to perfection and had a young knicks squad looking like a team on the rise? you missed that one too

    No on called him alll nba defense but as far as his series vs ORL: The Bobcats were a newly founded playoff team going up against one of the best offenses and teams in the league and struggled all yr in defending the the leagues elite. They were a sub par defensive unit. Shumpter a very good on ball defender was the first to tell everyone how many of his mistakes this yr was erased playing with Chandler not only in dribble penetration but also in positioning himself to guard picks etc. Felton with that unit as a whole didn't have that luxury. they were clearly over matched. Felton and the Bobcats struggled all yr in the pick and roll and no suprised were torched by it vs Orlando as they ran it to perfection. Any one who watched that series and not just looked at the numbers can clearly see it was a problem from a team standpoint defending an elite offense vs a pg who was at all star caliber level around that time. of course with felton playing the lion share of the minutes the numbers are going to be skewed towards him but actually put on the tape and watch it and youll see they struggled across the board defensively throughout that entire series in route to a sweep. you also by accident i see forgot to mention how the staff here praised his effort on defense and many like i said before thought he was much better then expected. lockdown? of course not no one said such

    every year he has a weight issue? please show me where you saw this reported or during his stay here in NY most importantly?

    you fail to note any of Lin's deficiencies like his glaringly excessive high turnover ratio and only pinpoint Felton's short comings as if he has done nothing of merit in this league and your judgment isn't a bit clouded? If I didn't know any better I would say you were being biased in your approach by posting half truths, pulling out stats you want and glossing over the others that negate it. but that certainly isn't the case right? of course not lol

    But the main thing you fail to realize is this is NOT a battle between Lin vs Felton. It's rather a battle between does Lin's contract justify his actual on court performance and upcoming restrictions and penalties it will bring on the organization as a whole?
    vs the pairing of 2 viable pgs who can net similiar production and allow us to still work effectively within the confines of said cap. While in addition, the flexibilty to make even yet another play at a superstar at said position in the future ala Chris Paul.


    You clearly like most posters aren't looking at the big picture and turning this into a 1 on 1 debate between the 2 when its bigger then that.

    or maybe im wrong and you do realize it. Which is why your going to great lengths to make it seem like Lin is eons ahead of what we currently have and our current options are incapable of running a proper offense. Because not to do so will only further more show how foolish it is then to go ahead and auction off our future on a guy who played 25 games. by not creating a huge discrepancy and talking up Lin as if he's elite status, only makes Lin at all cost supporters points mute and invalid.

    At this stage in his career, 7 yrs in Felton pretty much is what he is so yes I would take Lin and his upside over him any day. If both brought forth the same restrictions and contract amount with their signing then yes go get Lin but that isn't the case here.

    So as much as Lin at all cost supporters want to post stats to show Lin is is the superior player or pose the question who is better? It really isn't the one we should be asking
    Last edited by goldenchild1688; Jul 16, 2012 at 03:44.

  6. #1101
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    Golden, Take a quick look at our cap situation before you defend the Knicks org please. We are over the luxury tax whether or not we match lins offer, so the restrictions are the same either way. The only question is how much tax Dolan is willing to pay. Personally I think he owes us the cost of Lin given that he won the timewarner dispute because of him, all the gear he sold, and oh yeah, the fact that he makes our team much better with the potential to be great depending on how he develops.

  7. #1102
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    Can't quit on a team that is in your blood......just can't.

    Sent from my LG-P999

  8. #1103
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    Originally Posted by BillyHoyle
    Golden, Take a quick look at our cap situation before you defend the Knicks org please. We are over the luxury tax whether or not we match lins offer, so the restrictions are the same either way. The only question is how much tax Dolan is willing to pay. Personally I think he owes us the cost of Lin given that he won the timewarner dispute because of him, all the gear he sold, and oh yeah, the fact that he makes our team much better with the potential to be great depending on how he develops.
    i never said we were under the cap which is why i said penalties and mentioned future flexibility, not exceeding it.

    when I said work within the confines of the cap i was speaking in the context of the post of future flexibility which is why i also tied it also to having the possibilty of even being able to go after Paul.

    again all I see from Lin at all cost supporters is exactly what you posted. not does his on court performance justify his contract? but look at all the money he made us and brings in.

    hats and t-shirts don't win champions but you get some nice ones once you win something lol

  9. #1104
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    Miami won with Mario Chalmers at the 1, Lakers won 5 with Fisher, the Heat also won with White Chocolate running the show

    Felton should be fine for us if we don't match Lin, he's big real big, fast can defend and hit the open 3. Things Woodson likes I also think eventually we add Jeff Teague who I think is our ideal fit at the 1

  10. #1105
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    So much money has been invested in out Front 3.......its a 3 year plan....
    Lin can only help us and has the potential as we have seen to really help us...
    we have not been out of the first round in a decade plus, have not won a Championship in decades plus.....so how do u not take it on the chin and add a guy that just might be the extra piece needed to win a championship......

    Only the Knicks can finally find an answer at PG and then downgrade....Raymond Felton.....come on

  11. #1106
    BALL DON'T LIE MeloforMayor's Avatar
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    I wish the front office would just announce whether they would match the offer or not. The suspense is killing me. If Lin ends up in Houston, I'm sure gonna miss ogling at hot asian broads during Knicks games.

  12. #1107
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    After reading the article today in the NY Post about Kidds bust and how he swigging from the bottles, argueing with his wife, drove into the pole at 60 mph and the cops saw no brake marks, then took a pill and got rushed to the hospital one would think we are heading for another drama year......

    Just sign LIN and lets roll where we roll...

    Smith's comments that he wants to be anywhere Kidd is ....great team player...he would be very jealous of Lin's contract....why say it...

    Melo...Lins contract is nuts...he is right...so was Melo needing to get his extra 6 million rather then wait for free agency and then go to the knicks so we still had the pieces to get Chris paul...

    we are feeling like a team of losers.......

    TG for TC

  13. #1108
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Miami won with Mario Chalmers at the 1, Lakers won 5 with Fisher, the Heat also won with White Chocolate running the show

    Felton should be fine for us if we don't match Lin, he's big real big, fast can defend and hit the open 3. Things Woodson likes I also think eventually we add Jeff Teague who I think is our ideal fit at the 1
    Chalmers is underrated. RayRay is serviceable, worth a 3 year ~10M deal, I don't want the Knicks to give him that 4th year player option as has been reported then it becomes a ~13M deal. He's big the wrong way, short and fat instead of tall and muscular and his 3 point shot is average and he jacks them up because he has always thought he's a better shooter than he is. Don't know if you read this article posted by SSJ4WingZero comparing Felton to Lin that also says he is an average-below average defender.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    The Knicks have until EOD Tuesday to match but if they sign Felton Monday you can close the book on one of the best stories for the NY Knicks in years "Linsanity".
    Last edited by tiger0330; Jul 16, 2012 at 06:56.

  14. #1109
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    it really bothers me how reactionary knicks fans are. jeremy lin is NOT worth 15 mill in the nba buddys. sorry to inform you guys but we would be paying lin about 4million more than what rondo would makes. at the old price the i would have matched but there seems to be some truth to the story about him scheming with the rockets organization behind ppls backs. yao has also been in his ear. id kinda like to see him go being that we have so many bandwagon knicks fans now who jumped on during that whole corny linsanity thing. ppl who never gave 2 licks about basketball all of a sudden were fanatics of the game. makes me sick. i wonder how supportive of the knicks that same community will be when he isnt around.

    this fraud leaving might not be such a bad thing, he obviously has an ego bigger than he lets ppl see. he quuit on us in the playoffs watching on as stat played with 1 hand and melo played his ISO-Melo as u clowns refer to it.

    quick question, what was the style called at the height of linsanity? wen he would dribble for 24 seconds and drive it to the rim? teamball lin?

    and lets stop acting like the hype had nothing to do with his ethnicity. let that whore go to HOU to take care of Yaos leftovers. houston is obviously trying to cash in on the asian community once again and they will gobble it all up because his bandwagon supporters know NOTHING about basketball but 17.

    i actually had asian ppl arguing to me that he was a better player than MELO! unbelievable bro, but they will jump ship soon enough

  15. #1110
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    Default For those who missed this.

    Carmelo Anthony doesn't want any blame for the New York Knicks not keeping Jeremy Lin.


    Several sources have told Yahoo! Sports that the Knicks don't plan on matching the three-year, $25 million offer sheet Lin signed with the Houston Rockets. Anthony called the offer sheet which will pay Lin nearly $15 million in the third year "ridiculous" Sunday during an interview with reporters after Team USA's practice in Washington.
    "It's up to the organization to say they want to match that ridiculous contract that's out there,'' Anthony said.
    Anthony later said in a text message with Yahoo! Sports that it's not his fault if the Knicks decline to match the offer sheet by Tuesday's 11:59 p.m. ET deadline.

    "It's up to ownership to match, not me," Anthony said. "I'm tired of people trying to blame me for the fact that the Knicks might not match. I want everybody to get paid if they have the opportunity."



    Knicks coach Mike Woodson declined comment at Sunday's summer league game against the Phoenix Suns in Las Vegas. A Knicks spokesman said management also would not comment on Lin's status.
    The Knicks were widely expected to match Lin's offer sheet until they struck a sign-and-trade deal with the Portland Trail Blazers to acquire point guard Raymond Felton on Saturday. The Knicks also recently signed point guards Jason Kidd and Pablo Prigioni.

    Lin had a sensational run as the Knicks' starting point guard before a knee injury ended his season. Most of his success, however, came when Anthony was sidelined. Woodson also has made clear that the Knicks' offense will be built around Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire, not Lin.

    Lin is expected to have more freedom under Rockets coach Kevin McHale. Lin averaged 14.6 points and 6.2 assists in 35 games for New York last season and scored 38 points against the Los Angeles Lakers.
    "He's a good young player that has a lot of potential and upside with time and experience," Anthony said.

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