Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: The problem with Melo and Amare

  1. #1
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,227
    Rep Power
    20

    Default The problem with Melo and Amare

    I think the problem these two guys have right now is they are too used to doing it themselves. These guys really feel they have to carry the team and that's why so often we see when the ball gets to one of them they are always looking for the score.

    Melo and Amare need to learn to trust their new teammates, Fields is back amongst the living, Novak can be an even more effective Shawne Williams on offense, Shumpert and Douglas will sooner or later hit their rhythm.

    Every Knick game I watched this season prior to this weekend was pure entropy on the offensive end. The ball movement was horrible and the player movement awkward. Suddenly without these two players stopping the ball all the time we look alive.

    There have been flashes of it before, the game where Melo scored like 2 (?) points and other games where Melo/Amare have missed. These guys need to shoulder their pride and let it stem from wins instead of personal performances.

    I'd much rather see these guys shoot 50% and only have 15-20 points each than the recent trend of 25 points on 35-40% shooting.

    I'm not buying into the Lin hype after only 2 games if this guy can average 10/5 for us on the year he would be a great pickup, but his hard work, penetration and passing are something sorely lacking all season long. I think we're in for a rough few weeks but if we can keep this cohesion and team spirit going with the return of our big 2 we are in for an exciting end to the season.

  2. #2
    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/Mount Vernon NY
    Posts
    1,357
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    In order for us to play like we did against Utah WITH Stoudemire and Melo back in the lineup, the following thingsare necessary imo:

    - They both need to worry less about individual scoring. The target should be efficient and collective TEAM scoring. We need to get everybody involved on offense, this way we can get way more quality shots in general and as a side-effect everyone stays motivated.

    - They both need to focus on defense, rebounding, passing and hustle plays WAY more than they are doing now. Jeffries played HARD on every posession against Utah, Chandler ALWAYS plays hard, Lin plays hard....Melo and Stoudemire really need to buy in and play hard aswell. A key rebound, a charge or a block/steal are often more important than just 2 more points on the scoreboard without defensive effort and hustle.

    - They need to stop seeing themselves as great leaders, they haven't been leaders so far. Chandler should be the team's primary vocal leader and Melo and Stoudemire should buy in as lieutenants and see themselves as 'one of them' rather than 'the superstar who is surrounded by role players'.

    - They need to play less minutes to stay healthy and sharp. Playing Melo 38-40 minutes each night ain't gonna cut it.

    I think this team can be very good when we play EVERY ight like we did against Utah. I loved the hustle, effort and TEAMPLAY. I think it was the best Knicks performances in 10 years or so.

    We should build on that and not fall back to the Melo/Stoudemire superstar bull**** where each of them launch 20-25 shots a game, shooting around 40% and wasting all their energy on offense = no defense, no hustle, no teamplay....our other players looking like scrubs.

    I would be perfectly fine with Melo averaging around 16 ppg and Stoudemire around 15 ppg for the rest of the season, if that means our other players will get involved nearly as much as they did against Utah and EVEN MORE IMPORTANT: We play like we did against Utah (High energy, TEAMPLAY, DEFENSE, hustle and commitment).

    In other words: They need to reinvent themselves.

    Do I see it coming: Hell no

    Am I hoping they would do it? Hell yeah!!!

  3. #3

    Default

    Originally Posted by smokes
    ...the problem (STAT & Melo) have right now is they are too used to doing it themselves. These guys really feel they have to carry the team and that's why so often we see when the ball gets to one of them they are always looking for the score.
    This.

    Look at Boston. Really. Look at Boston. With the addition of perennial All-star SG Ray Allen and PF Kevin Garnett, everyone shared the ball a lot more and Pierce wound up being more efficient. (Seriously, even now, a more efficient 30+ year-old Paul Pierce!)

    On the flipside is the Lakers of... I think it was 2003? When they had Gary Payton and Karl Malone join the Shaq/Kobe dynamic. All four stars were playing great individual basketball, but they got pounded by the Detroit Pistons.

    Originally Posted by smokes
    Every Knick game I watched this season... The ball movement was horrible and the player movement awkward. Suddenly without these two players stopping the ball all the time we look alive
    Well, honestly, I give Melo some credible doubt because he is injured at the moment. He's been on the floor very much far from 100% or even 90% this past month. Not really sure why STAT crumbled over the years.

    If Lin still ends up a 10/5, that'll be great. I'm hoping that trickles down to the other positions and backups, but it's already paying dividends for our bigs. ALL our bigs; anyone that sits in the PF-C position, and that includes Novak Jefferies, have benefited. I hope STAT and Jorts benefit too.

    Just having a dedicated PG stabilizes the group dynamic and lets players focus on getting better field positioning. In the match against the Nets, had Melo been making his shots, getting fed by Lin would have been huge. It would have cleared up the block for both STAT and Chandler to rack up paint points. It would also mean our Forwards don't have to hover above the free-throw line when defending; that gives Chandler help with defensive rebounds as well.

    If healthy, I still agree that cutting 'Melo's minutes is probably a good thing. It guarantees less wear-and-tear and potentially enforces him to grab quality shots (or face an early benching). STAT, I don't have any idea what's going on there. But we have backup for PFs as well; more so when Jorts recovers (so Jordan can be freed to swing between C and PF).

  4. #4
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,308
    Rep Power
    20

    Thumbs up something to think about

    As for leadership....I dont recall Melo or Stat being the leaders of their
    previous team so I didnt expect much leadership from the two high scorers
    on the Knicks.

    What I notice from the two superstars on and off the court in MSG is
    their individualism around teammates, coaches, fans, and media.
    The equation of Melo & Stat has not showed any team-concept around
    headcoach Dantoni in February 2011 to February 2012. WHY?

    Is Melo & Stat the problem on the Knicks? HELL NO!
    Is headcoach Dantoni the problem on the Knicks? HELL YEAH!

    The Knicks just won 5 straight games in a 7 games in 10 days stretch using
    only a 7+ man rotation. Is this a problem? HELL YEAH!

    On February 14, (today-Valentine day fellows) the Knicks schedule have the
    Knicks playing 5 games in 7 days....how many Knicks players will average
    double-diget minutes in each of the 5 games? 7+ players? 8+ players? 9+ players?

    The 3 month DNP to bigmen C-Eddy Curry, C-Mozgov, and PF-AR were detrimental
    to the Knicks team having a forever injury-prone PF-Turiaf, which lead injuries
    to SF-Gallo & SF-W.Chandler within those 3 months lastseason.
    Was Stat wrong for taking 3 games off for aghaustion after playing 40 minutes
    a night for 3 straight months? HELL NO!
    When Stat & Felton loss 6 straight games in the middle of Jan. 2011, using a
    7-man rotation a Red-Flag shouldve went up for a meeting between GM & coach,
    but it didnt. Which resulted in owner Dolan pulling the plug on a poor
    (6-8) January performance Knicks team that started February losing with an
    aghausted Stat taking games off to result in the "Melo-Trade" for the February deadline.
    Knicks Fans all over need to stop acting like they are clueless of why owner
    Dolan stepped in and traded all of Dantoni's DNP players plus some for the
    Melo-Billups trade.

  5. #5
    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/Mount Vernon NY
    Posts
    1,357
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    As for leadership....I dont recall Melo or Stat being the leaders of their
    previous team so I didnt expect much leadership from the two high scorers
    on the Knicks.

    What I notice from the two superstars on and off the court in MSG is
    their individualism around teammates, coaches, fans, and media.
    The equation of Melo & Stat has not showed any team-concept around
    headcoach Dantoni in February 2011 to February 2012. WHY?

    Is Melo & Stat the problem on the Knicks? HELL NO!
    Is headcoach Dantoni the problem on the Knicks? HELL YEAH!

    The Knicks just won 5 straight games in a 7 games in 10 days stretch using
    only a 7+ man rotation. Is this a problem? HELL YEAH!

    On February 14, (today-Valentine day fellows) the Knicks schedule have the
    Knicks playing 5 games in 7 days....how many Knicks players will average
    double-diget minutes in each of the 5 games? 7+ players? 8+ players? 9+ players?

    The 3 month DNP to bigmen C-Eddy Curry, C-Mozgov, and PF-AR were detrimental
    to the Knicks team having a forever injury-prone PF-Turiaf, which lead injuries
    to SF-Gallo & SF-W.Chandler within those 3 months lastseason.
    Was Stat wrong for taking 3 games off for aghaustion after playing 40 minutes
    a night for 3 straight months? HELL NO!
    When Stat & Felton loss 6 straight games in the middle of Jan. 2011, using a
    7-man rotation a Red-Flag shouldve went up for a meeting between GM & coach,
    but it didnt. Which resulted in owner Dolan pulling the plug on a poor
    (6-8) January performance Knicks team that started February losing with an
    aghausted Stat taking games off to result in the "Melo-Trade" for the February deadline.
    Knicks Fans all over need to stop acting like they are clueless of why owner
    Dolan stepped in and traded all of Dantoni's DNP players plus some for the
    Melo-Billups trade.
    You're repeating yourself.

    D'Antoni used everybody available during the winning streak.
    Just to remind you: Melo was/is injured, Stoudemire was in Florida and Harrelson and Davis were/are injured.

    He could hardly bench Lin, because he's our only good point guard, but even so he gave him as much rest as possible, Bibby and Douglas are just horrible and we're playing with 4 men when one of them is on the court for Lin.

    The same with Chandler, he had to play heavy minutes, because our other star-players were out and Tyson is a beast, without him our defense is worse and we miss him on offense too (lobs, rebounds, spacing). Jordan played when Tyson was in foul trouble.

    So what are you talking about? Who else should have played? D'Antoni played everybody available with the exception of Douglas in the last few games and we all know why.

  6. #6
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,308
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    You're repeating yourself.

    D'Antoni used everybody available during the winning streak.
    Just to remind you: Melo was/is injured, Stoudemire was in Florida and Harrelson and Davis were/are injured.

    He could hardly bench Lin, because he's our only good point guard, but even so he gave him as much rest as possible, Bibby and Douglas are just horrible and we're playing with 4 men when one of them is on the court for Lin.

    The same with Chandler, he had to play heavy minutes, because our other star-players were out and Tyson is a beast, without him our defense is worse and we miss him on offense too (lobs, rebounds, spacing). Jordan played when Tyson was in foul trouble.

    So what are you talking about? Who else should have played? D'Antoni played everybody available with the exception of Douglas in the last few games and we all know why.
    I see u still lack basic coaching fundamentals....look at the schedule and
    the stat-sheet and correct yourself in the Knicks last 7 games.
    How many practices do u think the Knicks had in 10 days with 7 games to
    play with travel and injuries included???

  7. #7
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,463
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by smokes
    I think the problem these two guys have right now is they are too used to doing it themselves. These guys really feel they have to carry the team and that's why so often we see when the ball gets to one of them they are always looking for the score.

    Melo and Amare need to learn to trust their new teammates, Fields is back amongst the living, Novak can be an even more effective Shawne Williams on offense, Shumpert and Douglas will sooner or later hit their rhythm.

    Every Knick game I watched this season prior to this weekend was pure entropy on the offensive end. The ball movement was horrible and the player movement awkward. Suddenly without these two players stopping the ball all the time we look alive.

    There have been flashes of it before, the game where Melo scored like 2 (?) points and other games where Melo/Amare have missed. These guys need to shoulder their pride and let it stem from wins instead of personal performances.

    I'd much rather see these guys shoot 50% and only have 15-20 points each than the recent trend of 25 points on 35-40% shooting.

    I'm not buying into the Lin hype after only 2 games if this guy can average 10/5 for us on the year he would be a great pickup, but his hard work, penetration and passing are something sorely lacking all season long. I think we're in for a rough few weeks but if we can keep this cohesion and team spirit going with the return of our big 2 we are in for an exciting end to the season.
    Here's an article on Melo that I wholeheartedly agree with. I think it goes down like this. If not we are in trouble...

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  8. #8
    Superstar NYCLakerfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    611
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Here's an article on Melo that I wholeheartedly agree with. I think it goes down like this. If not we are in trouble...

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Thats a really good article I do see Melo going down a similar path as Pierce.

  9. #9
    Member Oakman88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    234
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Great read. If melo does do what pierce did. Oh boy..watch out.

  10. #10
    El Cacique portega1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    River Rocks, Port Rich (Rio Piedras, Puerto Rico PUNETA!!!)
    Posts
    1,611
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Love the positive talk!!!

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Lin Excited to Play Alongside Anthony: Will Jeremy Lin and Carmelo Anthony be able to co-exist in New York? That’s the big question surrounding the Knicks right now. Lin has been effective with the ball in his hands, leading New York to a six-game winning streak. He’s averaging 26.8 points and 8.5 assists during this stretch and has become a household name in the process.

    How will things change once Anthony’s groin injury heals and he returns to the starting lineup? If you ask Lin, he believes it’ll make New York’s offense even scarier while making his job easier. The 23-year-old can’t wait for the Knicks to be at full strength.

    “It’s going to be unbelievable,” Lin told HOOPSWORLD last week. “You have Amar’e, who can shoot and drive. He’s a powerful finisher and an unbelievable pick-and-roll player. You have Melo, who is a top five scorer in the league. Then you have Tyson Chandler, who you can just throw it up anywhere and he’ll get it. The key for us is getting this offense flowing the way we want it to. We need to be more efficient and I need to get the ball to the guys in the spots that they’re comfortable in and most effective in. I think that’s going to take a little bit of time, but I’m excited. If we can get it to work out, this is an explosive offense.”

    Lin has shown that he can be effective as a distributor, making the players around him better. He has excellent court vision and sets his teammates up for easy baskets. While he needs to lower his turnovers, the Knicks’ offense should continue to thrive if he takes on more of a facilitator role.

    The point guard understands that his statistics may drop, but he’s not concerned about that.

    “The way I look at it, I don’t go into games looking to get a double-double,” Lin said. “I really just try to do my best, play for God’s glory and take what the defense gives me. It may not be a lot on some given nights and I’m really not worried about my stats. I just want to help the team win. I know that sounds really cliché and whatever, but we need to make a playoff push right now. That’s what the whole team is focused on. As a result of buying into that, people have had really nice numbers but that’s not what we’re focused on. I definitely don’t care about numbers, I just want to win.”

    Lin will take pressure off of Anthony and Stoudemire, and defenses will have to keep an eye on him. His biggest strength since moving into the starting lineup has been his ability to create contact and draw fouls. Lin is averaging 7.6 free throws per game, many of which come after made baskets.

    Linsanity continues to grow and shows no signs of slowing down once Anthony returns from injury.

  11. #11
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,869
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Originally Posted by Oakman88
    Great read. If melo does do what pierce did. Oh boy..watch out.
    thats exactly how I see it happening, Melo will score more points and more efficiently the thing we have to remember is that Melo isn't a Landry Fields type of guy but also Melo has to understand when 9-10 guys are playing good its better then when 2 guys are playing great

  12. #12
    ★KNICKS-TAPE★ NYk_Reloaded718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Queenz, NY
    Posts
    3,317
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by CA7
    thats exactly how I see it happening, Melo will score more points and more efficiently the thing we have to remember is that Melo isn't a Landry Fields type of guy but also Melo has to understand when 9-10 guys are playing good its better then when 2 guys are playing great
    +1111 Melo's saying all the right things to the media about how he is going to fit in with Lin, lets pray he can back it up - No homo.

  13. #13
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,308
    Rep Power
    20

    Question Mark Call it what u want

    But Facts are Facts.

    From day 1 of the Melo-Trade.....both Melo & Stat evaluated headcoach Dantoni status.
    After the Knicks vs Miami Heat game lastseason....both our superstars performance
    decline....the only reason for such a decline in performance from two superstars
    is they are not satisfied with the headcoach (no-strategy).
    And Chauncey Billups (oil) opinion of Dantoni (water) coaching did not mix or help
    out matters. The first round sweep told the story of how much Melo/Stat wanted
    to win for headcoach Dantoni.

    If lastseason playoffs wasnt a factor of proof....the 25 games of "ISO" plays
    showed how much Melo/Stat wanted Dantoni FIRED on Super-Bowl sunday.

    When u have NBA sports announcers like Steven A. Smith "FLIP" to say Dantoni
    is an offensive-genious when for years Smith always said take Steve Nash out
    of Phoenix and the SSOL will turn into a no-defensive losing team.
    All sports announcers are repeatedly relating the outstanding performance of
    Jeremy Lin's success to the Dantoni's system....BULLSHIIIT!!!

  14. #14
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,271
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    I don't see how Stat and Melo wont be able to benefit from what Lin is doing.

    They both admitted plenty of times that they can't wait to play with him because he takes the pressure off of them. If you have a PG giving you the pill in the right spot at the right time...you will thrive, especially if you're already superstar.

    I can't see Melo getting a wide open pass then desides to wait for the defense so he can do some iso. The Iso is a style he uses because he rarely has the help from the rest of the team..he tries to do it himself.

    Trust me, Melo has front row seats of the Lin show and as a professional and (someone wanting to win) he sees what's working and is very excited about returning. It'll work out as long as Lin stays on task.

  15. #15
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,693
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    But Facts are Facts.

    From day 1 of the Melo-Trade.....both Melo & Stat evaluated headcoach Dantoni status.
    After the Knicks vs Miami Heat game lastseason....both our superstars performance
    decline....the only reason for such a decline in performance from two superstars
    is they are not satisfied with the headcoach (no-strategy).
    And Chauncey Billups (oil) opinion of Dantoni (water) coaching did not mix or help
    out matters. The first round sweep told the story of how much Melo/Stat wanted
    to win for headcoach Dantoni.

    If lastseason playoffs wasnt a factor of proof....the 25 games of "ISO" plays
    showed how much Melo/Stat wanted Dantoni FIRED on Super-Bowl sunday.

    When u have NBA sports announcers like Steven A. Smith "FLIP" to say Dantoni
    is an offensive-genious when for years Smith always said take Steve Nash out
    of Phoenix and the SSOL will turn into a no-defensive losing team.
    All sports announcers are repeatedly relating the outstanding performance of
    Jeremy Lin's success to the Dantoni's system....BULLSHIIIT!!!
    Lin was the quoted as calling Dantonio an "absolute offensive genius "....now hes a smart kid as we know who can play ball....
    so:
    A. he is kissing danotnio' ass.
    B. He believes it.

Similar Threads

  1. The Problem Is Not Melo Amare or Defense!
    By knickerbocka176 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Jan 15, 2012, 23:50
  2. Can Amare and Melo coexist?
    By Hayato in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Apr 29, 2011, 23:02
  3. Replies: 35
    Last Post: Mar 06, 2011, 20:15
  4. Replies: 23
    Last Post: Feb 28, 2011, 23:26
  5. Knicks Big 3....melo, Amare, Parker
    By Toons in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Jul 05, 2010, 17:52

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •