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Thread: Mike D'Antoni's influence on our resurgence

  1. #46
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk

    YES! When you don't succeed for a couple years then there is a chance you will get fired. That's how it works in the NBA.
    Not when the team wasn't trying to win.

    If you hold his record against him the first 2 years on the job, when we were purposely making lop-sided talent trades, then you are not rational nor are you making a fair assessment.

  2. #47
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    i didnt think i needed to but maybe i should have said "....when he has a remotely sufficient pg." better? im not excusing anything about our horrendous start but if we perform at a very high level with the pieces in place its pretty much irrelevant. im not sure but the impression i get is that you feel less, longer possessions means more than efficient ones? if you combine the value of shots taken and fg % you essentially have your points per possession. obviously things like steals, fouls, etc can change these numbers but compared to converting fgs theyre almost irrelevant. points per possession is probably the most important number a team can put up. if youre converting a high % of your possessions into points it doesnt matter that the other team also gets more possessions. people hear SSOL and think that after 7 seconds the balls getting chucked no matter where it is. if you watch a game that is not the case. there have been bad shots taken but that has gotten infinitely better. you mention the ability to maintain a points per possession. you are right in that a team that chucks 3s will have inconsistent results. how large of a dropoff in 3pt fg have we seen since hes actually had a pg? we've improved our fg % in two ways: limiting 3s and only taking good ones unless the clocks running down.

    that nash comment was just silly. i never said mda is a great coach no matter the situation hes in. i clearly stated he needed a pg like lin to run his offense. if that means to you hes a bad coach, so be it. if we have the pieces he needs to run a potent offense, i'll take a "bad coach" every day. what he does without lin, amare, whatever is not relevant to this team because our plan is to field an elite team, not one with holes and not one that cant play in his system. barring injuries or disasters were not gonna have a team that cant run dantoniball for a long time, so why does that matter?

    when your big picture plan involves sucking for a few years and your coach doesnt miraculously turn your gutted team into a contender, there is not a chance he will be fired.

    before you say tl;dr, you complain about efficiency, fluctuation in fg%, whatever, but these are the things mda is working to maximize with this roster. hence the pg getting into the paint, more dunks for chandler, and wide open shots.

    i never said he was a great coach no matter the situation. i dont understand how you can be overrated when people completely ignore the fact that your offense can be unstoppable. complaining about the first month or so is like saying ford sucks cause their cars dont run well without oil. its just not a reasonable expectation.

  3. #48
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    You talk about putting his players in position to score tons of points when up until the Lin parade, this team was struggling to find ways to score. MOA was even at the point of confusion himself and said during a post game interview that he didn't have any answers. Also, there was that game where Amare barely even touched the ball in the 4th qtr and overtime. There were NO plays and its also Amare's fault for not being aggressive but still, what was he doing to get Amare going?

    Yeah points per possession which is only inflated by the enormous amounts of 3s taken. Over the course of a season, that stat may look nice but if you drill down per game you will probably see that it also cost you some close games. Basketball is about pace and MOA (from his days in PHX and now NY) has shown that he just simplifies it to score more points than the other team. The problem with this is that you're not always going to be efficient shooting the ball. 3s aren't always going to be your saving grace. Sometimes you have to work for it by drawing fouls and getting to the FT line, scoring in the post, taking higher % shots when possessions are most vital.

    Antoni has always been overrated, but I guess you're still wearing the Nash quilt over your head. Any coach that NEEDS 1 type of player to be successful isn't a damn good coach to me.

    YES! When you don't succeed for a couple years then there is a chance you will get fired. That's how it works in the NBA.

    Great post. MOA could care less about shooting high % shots. I heard him on MikedOn today and he said as long as you'er open you're free to shot no matter who or you are are where you are on the court.

    This is foolish. This is why we have Jorts shooting 3's. This is why we shot 45 threes in a game. This is why we werent going to the basket pre Jeremy Lin. Guys werent working for good shots. They were shooting the first open shot they could take.

    its best I not talk about MDA, because the more I write the more pissed I get...

  4. #49
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl


    its best I not talk about MDA, because the more I write the more pissed I get...
    And yet, every single post and thread you create is about him.

  5. #50
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    And yet, every single post and thread you create is about him.
    Not true. I touch on other things Knicks. I'll admit I've had more than enough to say about MDA, it's because I dont see him doing the right things.

    If I felt MDA was doing a bang up job and our roster just sucked I'd be all over the roster and who's responsible. But that isnt the case. This is now completely, unequivocally on the coach...

  6. #51
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Not true. I touch on other things Knicks. I'll admit I've had more than enough to say about MDA, it's because I dont see him doing the right things.

    If I felt MDA was doing a bang up job and our roster just sucked I'd be all over the roster and who's responsible. But that isnt the case. This is now completely, unequivocally on the coach...
    Now I know you are lying.

    You specifically said in one thread:

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    If MDA brought a chip to NY, I might consider laying off him
    Really? You might consider laying off him if he did something not Riley, not JVG, not anyone has done for nearly 40 years in this city? Really?

    This to me is evidence that you just hate the coach, and nothing he does will ever satisfy you, so you will continually bash him no matter what. Which takes away almost all the power you had in any criticism.

  7. #52
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Now I know you are lying.

    You specifically said in one thread:



    Really? You might consider laying off him if he did something not Riley, not JVG, not anyone has done for nearly 40 years in this city? Really?

    This to me is evidence that you just hate the coach, and nothing he does will ever satisfy you, so you will continually bash him no matter what. Which takes away almost all the power you had in any criticism.
    So because I want a chip with a very talented roster and if it doesnt happen I blame the coach, yet I'm lying?

    I'm fair. In life and in regards to MDA. Do I like his style? Not at all. Shooting an inordinate amount of long jump shots when you have arguably the best front court in the league seems to be a bit idiotic to me. There are things he did last year which were inexcusable.

    JVG and Riley got close. JVG and Riley wouldnt have Jorts shooting 3's when he'd best be served down in the paint.

    JVG and Riley wouldnt stick to something that isnt working and pile up loss after loss doing it.

    JVG and Riley adjusted to the rosters they had. Riley ran the SHOWTIME Lakers then came to NY and developed one of the most physical teams in NBA history. He adjusted. Something MDA has NEVER DONE...

  8. #53
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    So because I want a chip with a very talented roster and if it doesnt happen I blame the coach, yet I'm lying?

    I'm fair. In life and in regards to MDA. Do I like his style? Not at all. Shooting an inordinate amount of long jump shots when you have arguably the best front court in the league seems to be a bit idiotic to me. There are things he did last year which were inexcusable.

    JVG and Riley got close. JVG and Riley wouldnt have Jorts shooting 3's when he'd best be served down in the paint.

    JVG and Riley wouldnt stick to something that isnt working and pile up loss after loss doing it.

    JVG and Riley adjusted to the rosters they had. Riley ran the SHOWTIME Lakers then came to NY and developed one of the most physical teams in NBA history. He adjusted. Something MDA has NEVER DONE...
    You still didn't answer the criticism and clear evidence of your bias. I understand you want a championship. But even that hypothetical championship wouldn't cause you to let up on him.

    If MDA brought a championship to NY you MIGHT consider letting up on him. Something nobody has done in this city in 40 years. Something Jeff Van Gundy has never done in any city; something Riley never did here, with tons of talent.

    Yet, you MIGHT let up on your criticism if he took us to the promised land.

    Face it up: you aren't fair. You can kid yourself all you want but deep down you know it's false. So just own it.

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    You still didn't answer the criticism and clear evidence of your bias. I understand you want a championship. But even that hypothetical championship wouldn't cause you to let up on him.

    If MDA brought a championship to NY you MIGHT consider letting up on him. Something nobody has done in this city in 40 years. Something Jeff Van Gundy has never done in any city; something Riley never did here, with tons of talent.

    Yet, you MIGHT let up on your criticism if he took us to the promised land.

    Face it up: you aren't fair. You can kid yourself all you want but deep down you know it's false. So just own it.
    What 2 perennial all stars did Riley have? Or JVG?

    Ask yourself. Would the Knicks have an 8-15 record with the talent MDA has if Riley coached them? Would JVG?

    What am I not fair about in regards to MDA? I've never said anything that was wrong I dont think.

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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    What 2 perennial all stars did Riley have? Or JVG?

    Ask yourself. Would the Knicks have an 8-15 record with the talent MDA has if Riley coached them? Would JVG?

    What am I not fair about in regards to MDA? I've never said anything that was wrong I dont think.
    i will never understand the criticism of mda when he didnt have a complete roster. thats like gettin on a baker working without flour.

  11. #56
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    Originally Posted by amazinz5
    i will never understand the criticism of mda when he didnt have a complete roster. thats like gettin on a baker working without flour.
    What do you mean by his roster wasnt complete?

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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    What do you mean by his roster wasnt complete?
    theres this position, its called point guard. kinda important.

    shump, toney and half of bdavis' spine dont add up to a pg.

  13. #58
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    He had what he had. Along with no PG as you say he also had arguably the best front court in the league. The team should not have started out 8-15 with the talent it has...

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    how could victor cruz, larry fitzgerald and megatron not go 16-0....thats the best wr crew rex ryan could ever throw to.

  15. #60
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    Lost me there...

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